Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Spatulo]

But couldn¨t the team of Super Smash Flash technically do the same if they were in that situation?

Maybe Smash Flash gets away with it because it’s not a mod? Rather than being built on Nintendo’s software it’s just inspired by it. I don’t know if that actually would make a difference, I’m just spitballing.

 

[Fatmanonice]

But couldn¨t the team of Super Smash Flash technically do the same if they were in that situation?

It's not 1:1 because it's sprites. Like I said, Project M and Legacy use actual Nintendo assets so there's more to it than just copying the moves. Arguments could be based on programming. For example, let's pretend Cloud was the issue. There's a mod called Smash Bros: Angry Groundhog edition made in 2014 that coincidentally has the limit break concept and it's almost 1:1 what ultimately wound up in Smash 4. Depending on how similar the programming was, a legal argument could technically be made by the prosecution because, in a way, programming has similar legal standing to writing and art.

 

[zferolie]

Remember that time Nintendo waited ten years until the game was finished to slap a C&D on Another Metroid 2 Remake, which didn't ask for money, added completely original animations and entirely unique mechanics and challenges, all while being made in Game Maker? All because they had an uglier and less fun remake in the works at the same time?

I sure do.

Look, I get that there's no proof that Legacy XP was given a C&D or any other legal order to stop, but if I'm remembering right, PM got the same nebulous takedown that totally wasn't a C&D until it was.

I liked the metroid 2 remake. its different from the fan mod, and they were totally in the right to do it. can't have a fan game remake release right around when the actual remake is being announced.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Maybe Smash Flash gets away with it because it’s not a mod? Rather than being built on Nintendo’s software it’s just inspired by it. I don’t know if that actually would make a difference, I’m just spitballing.

It's like fanart/fanfiction. Nintendo legally cannot take it down no matter how bad it is. That's parody clause.

Fanart/fanfiction and similar stuff cannot be used to make money off of other than your own personal parody pieces. A good example is LittleKuriboh. He makes tons of parody-only phrases that can be put on shirts. Konami really can't do anything if they aren't using pictures of the characters, which would be their IP, not LK's. So it's a bit complicated, but more or less falls under "I made my own content." Worth noting that Yugioh the Abridged Series dealt with copyright things, but even with parody, it doesn't warp the animations usually, so that can be arguable if it's true parody or not. To say the least, Let's Plays seem to be much more "okay" as long as you put your own content(as I noted in a previous page, your own lines heavily matters).

Another example of a fan thing is Zelda Classic. Now, I've been on their website. Nintendo only told them to "not make money off it and you can do as you will". Unlike Smash Flash, Zelda Classic uses tons of official sprites. One thing to keep in mind is it's also not competition or a mod. It's based upon the actual engine, but has many bugs anyway. Zelda Randomizer is another thing they don't go after, despite being actual mods. In fact, they don't show any caring towards Randomizers. Though it's probably because they're generally using the original game system, in the way a Game Genie is done, which they can't sue for anyway, so maybe that's why. It's also not competition because people have to play a game the intended way, and Randomizers are not designed to even allow that to begin with. You aren't going to get far without playing the original copy, cause you won't know what you're doing. In fact, the pages recommend playing the original first. The only thing they do illegally at best is tell you where to get a rom, and technically, that doesn't count. Providing one is illegal. Suggesting sites is borderline.

-----------

Also, what Fatmanonice said. Worth noting is Nintendo/etc. cannot take fan ideas because they have to pay those fans for their concepts. This is why shutting it down can also be beneficial alone.

 

[Polarthief]

Also, what Fatmanonice said. Worth noting is Nintendo/etc. cannot take fan ideas because they have to pay those fans for their concepts. This is why shutting it down can also be beneficial alone.

Not to mention it'd likely be near impossible not to step on toes. Without even looking at the modded games, I'd be willing to be some of Geno's iconic moves are in there, and of course they'd be used because it's Geno and he only had 5 special/magic (Y) moves along with a handful of weapons.

Anyways, I added a bullet point on the thing (it's just in my sig now cuz I'm too lazy to keep linking to it), but if anyone wants to make a better one, go ahead and make a copypasta please (will obviously give you an @ credit callout).

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

My opinion is that the otters don't mean anything and the Legacy XP thing could mean something but I'm definitely far from convinced that it does. On the whole tho there's no denying that I've seen far more evidence for Geno (circumstantial tho it may be) than I have for any other characters. While I certainly don't consider him a lock by any means, I am elated to see all these signs pointing at the best possible possibility (for me). I will be ever skeptical, but I just don't see signs piling up for other characters in the same way I do for Geno but of course I'm not as involved in speculation for other characters although I do check in the Spyro, Crash, Frisk, Rayman, Doomguy, etc threads every now and then.

 

[Polarthief]

Y'know what I just realized? Once Geno gets his spot, I'm... not really sure who else I'll be left rooting for. Two of my top 5 are a total pipe dream (Advance Wars and Rhythm Heaven reps) that don't really have a single character to put in so I'm totally not expecting them. Paper Mario (based on the games that aren't garbage) is possible with PM3 rumors, but I don't see it happening. Lloyd is a possibility albeit a low one. Phoenix Wright I don't see happening in favor of bigger characters like Dante. That basically leaves characters I don't really care if they get in or not, but I'd be cheering for them, such as Wah, Isaac, Shantae, BWD, and Impa. It's a really weird feeling where I won't be nearly as excited for Smash reveals (again, this is totally *assuming* Geno is an early pick) since I'll have pretty much everyone I wanted that's realistic, unless they throw a total curveball. Yeah I'll be like "oh that's neat!" to some characters, but none that I'll go ape over like I did with BK and would again with Geno.

 

[Deleted member]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If this turns out to be true, then I guess we say goodbye to Snake, Simon and Richter for any future Smash game.

 

[link2702]

Damn...

I mean to be fair they were franchises more closely associated with sony anyway....
But still.

 

[TriggerX]

A lot of misinformation is floating around in this thread.
Nintendo can definitely go after anyone they want. Smash Flash included. Regardless if they are using original sprites or models, their characters are being represented. So Nintendo has legal grounds to issue a C&D to pretty much any project that uses their character’s likeness.

There really isn’t a difference in the two projects in that regard.

If the mods and games in questions were actual “parodies” of the original game it would be more of a grey area. However you can’t consider smash flash, or mods parodies. They are fan attempts at recreation.

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If this turns out to be true, then I guess we say goodbye to Snake, Simon and Richter for any future Smash game.

OH HELL NAH!!!!

 

[Nicnac]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If this turns out to be true, then I guess we say goodbye to Snake, Simon and Richter for any future Smash game.

The Konami Big 3 lives again! It does sound like this might be a goodbye to other Konami series though (Contra comes to mind)

 

[MisterMike]

A certain someone is tweeting otters:

https://twitter.com/OregonProgress/status/1238685703887679488

View attachment 265827

Does this mean...?

Oh, I hope it means.

 

[Deleted member]

The Konami Big 3 lives again! It does sound like this might be a goodbye to other Konami series though (Contra comes to mind)

If Konami is selling off some of their properties, I want Nintendo to buy Bomberman.

 

[Spatulo]

If Konami is selling off some of their properties, I want Nintendo to buy Bomberman.

Beat me to it, I’d be so happy

 

[skydogc]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If this turns out to be true, then I guess we say goodbye to Snake, Simon and Richter for any future Smash game.

Legitimately asking, but how true is this? I think I remember this rumor popped up like 2 to 3 years ago, right?

 

[Deleted member]

Legitimately asking, but how true is this? I think I remember this rumor popped up like 2 to 3 years ago, right?

I honestly have no clue. Sorry.

 

[skydogc]

I honestly have no clue. Sorry.

No worries just curious. And it was alleged that 2 or three years ago Konami was wanting to sell their IPs and Sony was picked to be a favorite was the thing, if I recall.

 

[DaxMasterix]

Nintendo should buy bomberman and.. Adventure Island .w.

 

[Deleted member]

No worries just curious. And it was alleged that 2 or three years ago Konami was wanting to sell their IPs and Sony was picked to be a favorite was the thing, if I recall.

Interesting. Reading the article, I think the rumor picked up again after all the Silent Hill stuff at the beginning of the year.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

If the Sony Konami thing is true then give Nintendo Bomberman and Contra. Give Contra the Sonic Mania treatment to revitalise it after the mess that was Rogue Corps

 

[HaloOfTheSun]

Damn...

I mean to be fair they were franchises more closely associated with sony anyway....
But still.

Castlevania is definitely not more closely associated to Sony than Nintendo

It doesn't matter, though, because it's fake.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If this turns out to be true, then I guess we say goodbye to Snake, Simon and Richter for any future Smash game.

I wonder what this means for Goemon and Bomberman if Sony get's the rights to Metal Gear, Castlevania, and Silent Hill since they're all Konami franchises. I always wished Konami lost their IPs because they're selfish, but not like this to Sony. I want all these games to still be on Nintendo consoles in the future.

Edit: I would be happier than a pig in **** if Nintendo buys the Goemon series from Konami.

 

[Megadoomer]

This Konami discussion isn't even remotely connected to Geno; we have social threads for this sort of thing.

 

[SSGuy]

I am really going to miss the LXP Geno. It's a shame that there is no way for people to ever play as him in a Smash game. I'm a little pissed that Nintendo would at least take that away from us. We have the worst luck ever.

 

[axel_]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If this turns out to be true, then I guess we say goodbye to Snake, Simon and Richter for any future Smash game.

Ultimate should be the last Smash game so I don't think this should even be a concern

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Ultimate should be the last Smash game so I don't think this should even be a concern

Ultimate certainly is not going to be the last Smash that's for sure. Smash is too big of a cash cow for Nintendo to just let it die on the shelf.

 

[Ovaltine]

Still here as a perpetual lurker, I suppose, but I'm going to break my silence over the Legacy XP thing.

I'm absolutely infuriated if and only if Nintendo is the reason why its development has suddenly stopped. One of the modders has gone on record to say that 'his lawyer's advice' is what ultimately wound up in it being canned, but they're being particularly vague about it. I have a nasty feeling that Nintendo quietly shut it down, and the idea of that being the case is the worst possible outcome. If Geno doesn't make it into Ultimate (which I blame no one for, as we all know that he's in quite the pickle in terms of possible characters go), that means we will literally not have any way to play as Geno apart from a mod that is technically not legal to play via hypothetical Nintendo Ninja action. Because the main downloads are gone, too, one would have to go digging around to find it. I see a few people posting up mirrors, but they're in rather secluded areas without much traction (i.e. Twitter threads). It's no longer got any sort of 'easy approach'.

So, not only do we risk never seeing Geno return if Ultimate isn't his time (which, to be honest, I'm not expecting any longer, I've given up by now), but we also have our one way of playing our boy in a more modern game shut down by the big wigs. That means Geno coming back in any fashion, by corporate or by fan creation, would be extremely unlikely, and that is the most angering thing that could possibly be. I won't be mad if Geno isn't in Ultimate, as again, I don't expect him to be, but to shut this down on top of that possibility is what DOES make me angry. Nintendo does have legal right to do it, yes; that does not mean it's a good move.

Don't let Nintendo try to tear our hopes down. Honestly, **** it, if they want to tear down the fans' contributions that Nintendo and Square refuse to make official, then I say that Geno's fans keep making more. Be loud about the fan content. Make fan games, fan mods, anything. Is it legally wrong or dubious? Obviously. Do I care? Frankly, I don't. Nintendo needs to learn that fan cultivation is a positive for them and not a negative. I refuse to let them stop us from enjoying a long-lost part of peoples' gaming joy, protection of their legal property (that they never use, hahahahaha) be damned.

Back into the shadows I go. For those many lurking detractors that I know love to **** on me, don't bother sending me any PMs or quotes if you're just going to whine about 'Geno fans being assholes because of mods being taken down and revolting', by the way. I will not entertain your whinging. Ciao~

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Ultimate should be the last Smash game so I don't think this should even be a concern

Correction probably the last smash bros Sakurai will make

But then someone else steps forward and reboots it

Besides to big of a cash grab to end

 

[link2702]

I was thinking about this the other day...

What would folks reactions be if after seeing geno’s popularity in smash, square started to use the character a lot more....a whole lot more.

Similar to how every FF game has a character named cid (whether a big role or not) or how Chocobo’s, Bombs, ifrit, or Flan always appear in some form, Geno starts to appear in every square enix game. Playable in some(provided it is a more cartoony or old school rpg), or as a noticeable cameo in others. And even appears in non-ff games like KH, or other square games like tomb raider, to the point where it’s not IF geno is in the game, but where.


I personally don’t know how I’d feel...Geno is after all a mario character, I’d rather see him appear more in mario games as a cameo or actual playable character...

...on the other it would ensure he has a lasting legacy as a character that never gets forgotten similar to how we always have a cid in ff games.

 

[Deleted member]

I was thinking about this the other day...

What would folks reactions be if after seeing geno’s popularity in smash, square started to use the character a lot more....a whole lot more.

Similar to how every FF game has a character named cid (whether a big role or not) or how Chocobo’s, Bombs, ifrit, or Flan always appear in some form, Geno starts to appear in every square enix game. Playable in some(provided it is a more cartoony or old school rpg), or as a noticeable cameo in others. And even appears in non-ff games like KH, or other square games like tomb raider, to the point where it’s not IF geno is in the game, but where.


I personally don’t know how I’d feel...Geno is after all a mario character, I’d rather see him appear more in mario games as a cameo or actual playable character...

...on the other it would ensure he has a lasting legacy as a character that never gets forgotten similar to how we always have a cid in ff games.

I don’t think Square would use him in those types of games. He just feels...out of place. I think his home is definitely the Mario franchise.

 

[Icewolff92]

I was thinking about this the other day...

What would folks reactions be if after seeing geno’s popularity in smash, square started to use the character a lot more....a whole lot more.

Similar to how every FF game has a character named cid (whether a big role or not) or how Chocobo’s, Bombs, ifrit, or Flan always appear in some form, Geno starts to appear in every square enix game. Playable in some(provided it is a more cartoony or old school rpg), or as a noticeable cameo in others. And even appears in non-ff games like KH, or other square games like tomb raider, to the point where it’s not IF geno is in the game, but where.


I personally don’t know how I’d feel...Geno is after all a mario character, I’d rather see him appear more in mario games as a cameo or actual playable character...

...on the other it would ensure he has a lasting legacy as a character that never gets forgotten similar to how we always have a cid in ff games.

Honestly.. the only way I can see Geno return in more then just Smash would be if Square replaces AlphaDream with the Mario+Luigi franchise and they want to use him through that, I mean they have created a division for the sake of creating Switch games https://www.gameinformer.com/2018/06/05/square-enix-devotes-division-to-developing-switch-games . The dream would obviously that Nintendo would buy the rights... But if they did not buy the rights to Banjo (who was literally a mascot for N64) I don¨t see them buy Geno anytime soon

 

[link2702]

I don’t think Square would use him in those types of games. He just feels...out of place. I think his home is definitely the Mario franchise.

I could see him appear in the ff9 universe easily. Also with some tweaking to design, in kingdom Hearts. And tomb raider or more serious looking ff games? A cameo as a kids toy doll, or just some weird carving on a rockwall that acts as an easter egg for players to find in Tomb raider.

They could easily find a way to shove his likeness in any game.


Like I said, I’m torn cuz he is a mario character and should stay in the mario universe (and stay relevant), but having him appear in some wY as this obscure tradition/tribute in every SE or ff game similar to Cid, could be an neat gesture by the company

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Correction probably the last smash bros Sakurai will make

But then someone else steps forward and reboots it

Besides to big of a cash grab to end

I won't buy the next Smash game if it's not directed by Sakurai. I can't get a new Smash game without Sakurai, he's been here since the start of it on the Nintendo 64 and it most likely won't have the same spirit if he's absent from directing and development. I'm most certain that he will make another one when the time comes in the next 8-9 years, as he said we probably won't see another one until ten years after Ultimate. And if Nintendo wanted to make another Smash game without him, who would develop it? HAL Laboratory, Game Arts, Sora Ltd. and Bandai Namco Studios still, or Nintendo themselves?

Why don't I trust another director to reboot or continue Super Smash Brothers? Well, remember what happened to Halo after Bungie stopped making Halo games and the Halo franchise went to 343 Industries? It seriously went downhill. Halo Infinite is probably 343's last chance, and if they **** up with this, that's going to look bad. Yes, I get it, they're from two separate companies and consoles, but Halo became a cash grab when it came to Halo 5, and 343 was scum enough to false advertise the upcoming campaign for Halo 5. Luckily Nintendo isn't bad enough to rush development or false advertise like 343 did, so that's one positive thing if it comes to somebody else or Nintendo directing future Smash games, but I still won't get it if Sakurai is absent from directing and/or developing it.

 

[Blankiturayman]

I was thinking about this the other day...

What would folks reactions be if after seeing geno’s popularity in smash, square started to use the character a lot more....a whole lot more.

Similar to how every FF game has a character named cid (whether a big role or not) or how Chocobo’s, Bombs, ifrit, or Flan always appear in some form, Geno starts to appear in every square enix game. Playable in some(provided it is a more cartoony or old school rpg), or as a noticeable cameo in others. And even appears in non-ff games like KH, or other square games like tomb raider, to the point where it’s not IF geno is in the game, but where.


I personally don’t know how I’d feel...Geno is after all a mario character, I’d rather see him appear more in mario games as a cameo or actual playable character...

...on the other it would ensure he has a lasting legacy as a character that never gets forgotten similar to how we always have a cid in ff games.

While it'd be nice, Geno is pretty much a character made for Mario, so he'd be out of place in other series, as others have mentioned above me. I still don't know though, why when SE collab'd with Nintendo (Fortune Street, Mario Sports Mix, etc) they completely omitted the SMRPG characters. It'd have been a perfect opportunity to bring them back in a collab like that. Don't get me wrong, I love that they added the likes of the Black Mage, etc, to these games, they're nice too, but I think the SMRPG characters had great opportunities for that.

Although I'll give them credit, Fortune Street had a sweet Mushroom Kingdom (from SMRPG) remix, that I didn't expect to see. I still really like it!

 

[Rohanx17]

For the record legacy XP is not the only way to play as geno rn. It was made well before that and added in later alongside plenty of other great currently running mods like legacy CE and REMIX. I haven't checked but I'd bet the original is still up on brawl vault as well.

 

[Deleted member]

I really don’t see the point of Square Enix keeping the rights of Mario characters in the first place. That be like Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, and K. Rool being owned by Rare because they created them and imagine Microsoft owning Donkey Kong characters. I wish Nintendo buys SMRPG characters. Square Enix would never use them unless Nintendo wants to use them at a Nintendo product and we don’t know if Nintendo has a desire of putting the characters in a lot of future titles because they have to go deal with Square, they can always make new characters, and they always use the same cast for spinoffs.

 

[link2702]

I really don’t see the point of Square Enix keeping the rights of Mario characters in the first place. That be like Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, and K. Rool being owned by Rare because they created them and imagine Microsoft owning Donkey Kong characters. I wish Nintendo buys SMRPG characters. Square Enix would never use them unless Nintendo wants to use them at a Nintendo product and we don’t know if Nintendo has a desire of putting the characters in a lot of future titles because they have to go deal with Square, they can always make new characters, and they always use the same cast for spinoffs.

I think the difference with the kongs is they quite literally were designed and named as relatives of dk. Would have been pretty difficult for rare to keep hold of em in the first place.

K.rool and the Kremlins maybe they had a better shot at keeping, but even then it was unlikely they’d ever get to keep anything they created for the dk universe.



Geno and the original content for smrpg probably was also negotiated on up front, and square made it clear they keep the rights to everything original they created.

Rare when expanding the dk universe probably was never expecting to leave Nintendo so they didn’t think about negotiating for keeping the rights to their original stuff in the dk universe.

 

[Springwood Slasher]

I was thinking about this the other day...

What would folks reactions be if after seeing geno’s popularity in smash, square started to use the character a lot more....a whole lot more.

Similar to how every FF game has a character named cid (whether a big role or not) or how Chocobo’s, Bombs, ifrit, or Flan always appear in some form, Geno starts to appear in every square enix game. Playable in some(provided it is a more cartoony or old school rpg), or as a noticeable cameo in others. And even appears in non-ff games like KH, or other square games like tomb raider, to the point where it’s not IF geno is in the game, but where.


I personally don’t know how I’d feel...Geno is after all a mario character, I’d rather see him appear more in mario games as a cameo or actual playable character...

...on the other it would ensure he has a lasting legacy as a character that never gets forgotten similar to how we always have a cid in ff games.

Honestly I feel like part of the reason there is such a large fan demand for him in Smash is because people hope that it leads to Geno being included in future projects. Deep down we love the character and want him to be a reoccurring character in Nintendo/Square games. He will never be the star of his own game but he has more depth and intrigue associated with him than 90% of the characters in the Mario universe.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Honestly I feel like part of the reason there is such a large fan demand for him in Smash is because people hope that it leads to Geno being included in future projects. Deep down we love the character and want him to be a reoccurring character in Nintendo/Square games. He will never be the star of his own game but he has more depth and intrigue associated with him than 90% of the characters in the Mario universe.

The greatest irony of him being in the Mario universe and has better character than most eh?