Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[link2702]

Sorry this is off topic here but I’m kinda desperate now...

Anyone here good at programming? Specifically c++? I need help badly. My homework has gotten to the point where I’m completely lost. My teacher uses the programming challenges from the book “starting out with c++, from control structures through objects” but heavily modifies them to keep people from just copying stuff online.

I can’t go to the computer lab at school because the hours they’re open clash with my work hours, and I’m at chapter 5 completely confused atm. Chapter 4 i ended up missing the deadline for two homework assignments so I got an f on both severely dropping my grade.


I’ve asked at the discord before, but the post often gets buried since it’s late at night.

I don’t want to drop both my computer and math if I can help it, but I also don’t want to fail, bc I’m using a pell grant, dropping em would likely slap me with a hefty bill, while getting an F would look really bad on my transcript :<

 

[protoblues]

I seriously don't understand this thought that "Nintendo doesn't care about [X]", or "They would pick somebody that would benefit them more!", or, last but not least "They're waiting till the next Smash to include more fan-requests."

Picking someone who "benefits" both companies -- the business case for the character -- is an all-encompassing inquiry.

I don't quite agree with your sentiment that Nintendo isn't concerned with sales, but I agree with you that suggesting Nintendo would favor "somebody that would benefit them more" over "fan-requests" is a little contradictory. The fan support for the character is a positive for the business case. It means the release will make a splash and generate enthusiasm. That's free marketing.

It's one Geno does have over say, 2B.

As for requests/popularity comparing to advertising, in the case of Geno (and Waluigi) this is a strange point since they're actually relevant factors. Geno and Waluigi are both known to lack further roles in Mario games. If NIntendo do see their request and demand, putting them in newest Mario titles and advertise them would be a perfect solution in the end. Lacking any spotlight to advertise isn't really a smart way to respond to the huge request.

Yes, exactly. There's all this value created when Geno is added to SSB, and the value is the rise of Geno as an IP. There's also the time-limited marketing value created by a big buzz on the internet, headlines on Polygon and Eurogamer, dozens of threads on reddit and 4chan.

The question is, how do you capitalize on that value? That's what I want to figure out in Geno's case.

The only gripe I have with your post I have quoted - if new game on Switch != character in Smash, why does character in Smash == new game on Switch? Games get ported to the Switch all the time, and I think it's unlikely that Smash had anything to do with it. Overwatch immediately comes to mind. I really think most of the time Smash is requested to be an advertisement platform for releases rather than the vehicle by which releases are secured, and fortunately for us, it feels like most of the advertisement has been done through Mii costumes rather than actual fighters this time around. Smash is big, sure, but it's giving it an awful lot of credit to be the negotiating platform to get games. Something I argued in favor of yesterday does sometimes hit Nintendo harder than it needs to: getting ports is hard since games typically need to be entirely redone to work on what is effectively two generation old hardware, and at that point you're relying on the developer wanting to put in the work to lower the bar on their own game just to secure a handful of extra sales.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your argument and it is worth wondering if there's a business case to put Geno in Smash, but outside of the obvious, I think the answer is that there isn't - which I believe is why you were met with "there is no need" more than folks coming up with the kind of potential that we sort of always hope for: some new Mario RPG with our boy in it. You really did get my gears turning in regards to deals for characters not necessarily being for "their game", so I've kind of convinced myself that Geno's business case inclusion has already been satisfied, either with the ports of Final Fantasy 7, 8 and 9, or through the much more thematically appropriate Collection of Mana, what with being a collection of SNES RPGs (with a Gameboy game). It wouldn't surprise me to see more like that, perhaps a Chrono collection that gives the west an opportunity to play Radical Dreamers.

All Englishmen are citizens of the U.K., but not all citizens of the U.K. are Englishmen.

I also don't want to mislead. I don't think every DLC = new game, but that is an obvious way to expand the value of the deal. I also don't think every negotiation is "we'll put X in Smash, so what will you bring to Switch?" Think of it this way: Nintendo and 3rd party want to get as much out of the deal as possible. It's not a zero-sum negotiation; there's no ceiling. You can see the contours of these deals in every 3rd party DLC release. They are all different in various ways, but they are similar in size and the distribution of value.

The deal you outlined for Geno doesn't work in this case. An important component of the deal between Nintendo and MS is that MS retained the added value to Banjo's IP. They can unilaterally capitalize on that value on their own console according to their own strategy. This is why they gave Nintendo so much in return (Cuphead, Ori).

SE cannot unilaterally capitalize on the added value to Geno's IP. They would not port other games to Switch in exchange for a benefit they did not actually receive. This cuts to the heart of the unique challenge Geno imposes.

The challenge I'm putting to you is this: how would you make a deal for Geno that is 1) similar to other DLC in size and 2) equitable for Square Enix and Nintendo?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Personally i just dont really see waluigi happening, plus im in the camp that i think waluigi getting in would doom genos chances

Waluigi or Geno getting in wouldn't effect each others chances at all. The Wah is owned by Nintendo while our doll boy is owned by Square-Enix. They might both be Mario characters, but that doesn't change the fact who owns them.

 

[Icewolff92]

Let me ask y'all that belives Waluigi is getting in

This is a charachter that Nintendo does not care about what so ever. There is a reason why the spinoff games get away with what they implement with him (just look at the Strikers franchise from next level games for crying out louf)

With that in mind.... we also have
Master Chief
Dante
Pheonix Wright
Geno
Sepiroth
Laura Croft
Sora
Crash
DoomGuy
Steve from Minecraft

To name a few, all way more requested charachters and charachter they could add to strenght the relationship between said company(s). But why Byleth you might ask then? Because marketing a recently released game. And with how they treat Waluigi as a charachter, he will never be in thesame position. Thats why people are betting on Sylux or a Gen8

Waluigis chance died when he were revealed as an AT

 

[Firox]

Waluigi or Geno getting in wouldn't effect each others chances at all. The Wah is owned by Nintendo while our doll boy is owned by Square-Enix. They might both be Mario characters, but that doesn't change the fact who owns them.

I, for one, totally see your point, but my main hang-up for Waluigi is his current AT status. While I don't think that spirits de-confirm, we have no precedent whatsoever of an AT becoming a fighter in the same game. Not saying it couldn't happen, Arceus knows that Sakurai likes to be unpredictable, but I feel the chances are downright in the basement....like, under the basement inside the abandoned well with the creepy girl from the Ring. I would be legitimately blown away if Waluigi were to actually show up. That's just my take.

Also, I feel if anything, PP really hurt his chances. The VERY first DLC character was a Mario one. I should think that having PP, Waluigi AND Geno (who I assume would still be lumped into the Mario Franchise) would be considered triple dipping by Sakurai regardless of who actually owns Geno.

EDIT: And now that I think about it, PP must have been a pretty big kick to the nuts for all you Waluigi fans out there. Imagine getting a new Mario villain and they end up choosing a generic enemy over Waluigi. Feels bad, man. At this rate, I could see Birdo getting in before Waluigi which is pretty jacked up considering how much more fan support the Wah has.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Let me ask y'all that belives Waluigi is getting in

This is a charachter that Nintendo does not care about what so ever. There is a reason why the spinoff games get away with what they implement with him (just look at the Strikers franchise from next level games)

With that in mind.... we have
Master Chief
Dante
Pheonix Wright
Geno
Sepiroth
Laura Croft
Sora
Crash
DoomGuy
Steve from Minecraft

To name a few, all way more requested charachters and charachter they could add to strenght the relationship between said company(s). But why Byleth you might add? Because marketing a recently released game. And with how they treat Waluigi as a charachter, he will never be in thesame position

If they don’t care about Waluigi, why has he gotten main roles in Mario spinoffs + plus some cool moves of his own that other characters don’t get, why did Reggie and likely other Nintendo peeps like him, why did he get an outfit in Odyssey, and why is he the poster-boy for ATs and Nintendo seems to notice his popularity at least somewhat? Why do they even use him at all?

Personally, I don’t see AT upgrades as very likely, but they could definitely still happen for the same reason Spirit upgrades can happen (though I only expect one or two if they do, Geno and the Waa).

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I, for one, totally see your point, but my main hang-up for Waluigi is his current AT status. While I don't think that spirits de-confirm, we have no precedent whatsoever of an AT becoming a fighter in the same game. Not saying it couldn't happen, Arceus knows that Sakurai likes to be unpredictable, but I feel the chances are downright in the basement....like, under the basement inside the abandoned well with the creepy girl from the Ring. I would be legitimately blown away if Waluigi were to actually show up. That's just my take.

I feel like if we are ever going to see an Assist Trophy get promoted in the same game the time is now in Ultimate. If not, I never see it happening since Ultimate is basically the HUGE fan service game and if it is not happening in Ultimate it certainly isn't happening in Smash 6, Smash 7 or beyond. We got every veteran back in this game, almost every stage, Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo & Kazooie, ect. Geno is happening now or never that is almost the concrete facts. Waluigi could be happening to regardless of him being an Assist Trophy.

 

[Houndstooth]

Sorry this is off topic here but I’m kinda desperate now...

Anyone here good at programming? Specifically c++? I need help badly. My homework has gotten to the point where I’m completely lost. My teacher uses the programming challenges from the book “starting out with c++, from control structures through objects” but heavily modifies them to keep people from just copying stuff online.

I can’t go to the computer lab at school because the hours they’re open clash with my work hours, and I’m at chapter 5 completely confused atm. Chapter 4 i ended up missing the deadline for two homework assignments so I got an f on both severely dropping my grade.


I’ve asked at the discord before, but the post often gets buried since it’s late at night.

I don’t want to drop both my computer and math if I can help it, but I also don’t want to fail, bc I’m using a pell grant, dropping em would likely slap me with a hefty bill, while getting an F would look really bad on my transcript :<

Hey, I am currently taking C++ classes right now. DM me and I may can at least help a bit? I'm no expert, but I know how it takes a bit to start clicking.

 

[Firox]

I feel like if we are ever going to see an Assist Trophy get promoted in the same game the time is now in Ultimate. If not, I never see it happening since Ultimate is basically the HUGE fan service game and if it is not happening in Ultimate it certainly isn't happening in Smash 6, Smash 7 or beyond. We got every veteran back in this game, almost every stage, Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo & Kazooie, ect. Geno is happening now or never that is almost the concrete facts. Waluigi could be happening to regardless of him being an Assist Trophy.

I totally agree. It's now or never, especially for Geno. Again, I'm not saying that Waluigi CAN'T happen. Just that it's so incredibly unlikely that I wouldn't count on it.

 

[MisterMike]

I seriously don't understand this thought that "Nintendo doesn't care about [X]", or "They would pick somebody that would benefit them more!", or, last but not least "They're waiting till the next Smash to include more fan-requests."
1. How the **** do you even know what Nintendo is and is no willing to include? Why the hell would they even care about Joker, or Banjo and Kazooie? 1 with a character from a series that mainly isn't on their consoles anymore and Banjo and Kazooie was legit bought by their old competitor who hasn't even made a stomp since the GBA, and haven't made a good stomp since the N64. It's insane to be this bad to the point where the Smash community is resulting to using "Nintendo doesn't care", as a serious argument point.
2. Wouldn't Steve be 10x more beneficial for them as a whole from a business stand-point? Biggest game of all time in Smash would surely make headlines, and would massively appeal to the mainstream, would it not? Doesn't them picking Banjo before stuff prove that they don't really give a care in the world about what appeals to the mainstream and what doesn't? I feel like they are seriously trying to appeal to the fans this game as, we got ****ing Banjo and Kazooie.
3. This argument is broken, they aren't waiting to include anybody when we have 6 more fighters right there, and they've even said they aren't going to plan the next Smash game for awhile and they aren't even thinking about it, and this passes goal is to "please the fans", and to "make upset fans happy."

All of these arguments are flawed in major ways I feel like I don't even need to explain.
One other argument I'll like to discuss is this "With DLC, they aren't going to include characters already in the game."
This "concept" of a "rule" was broken when legit the first DLC fighter, ever, was announced, being Mewtwo, and even if you use the argument "Well that's a old game!" even tho ultimate's base and sm4sh dlc was being planned/made around the same time, Piranha Plant is already a stage cameo in the stage "Mushroom Kingdom", and even if you STILL use the argument "Well that was a bonus!", even tho there is hard evidence that some "bonuses" were planned but they said "**** it" and made another pass, Joker is in a spirit, in his spirit bored.

These "arguments" are broken, and now with Luma being proven to be a duo and a spirit, and with Chrom being in legit in somebody else's final smash.
Who gives a **** about "rules" anymore?
Like seriously? If many people, insiders even, saying there aren't any rules, then there aren't Any Rules.

Okay, but consider this: I didn't get the character(s) I wanted in Smash. No Waluigi, no Isaac, no Shadow, no Black Knight, no Geno (yet), no Kao the Kangaroo, etc. Instead we got Piranha Plant and Byleth. This is clear and decicive evidence that the Smash team doesn't care about what the fans want. Now sure, maybe over 75% of the roster was made up of highly requested characters people have wanted for ages, but since those weren't any of the ones I personally wanted, they don't count.

 

[Icewolff92]

If they don’t care about Waluigi, why has he gotten main roles in Mario spinoffs + plus some cool moves of his own that other characters don’t get, why did Reggie and likely other Nintendo peeps like him, why did he get an outfit in Odyssey, and why is he the poster-boy for ATs and Nintendo seems to notice his popularity at least somewhat? Why do they even use him at all?

Personally, I don’t see AT upgrades as very likely, but they could definitely still happen for the same reason Spirit upgrades can happen (though I only expect one or two if they do, Geno and the Waa).

Did you even read what I just wrote? Nintendo does not care about the charachter to the point they allow Next level Games to have him make a "crouch shot" as one of the victoryposes when he score a goal yet the likes of Mario needs to stay vanillia in the same game

And what big role? Being a minorbadguy in Mario Tennis and be a Rabbid in Mario + Rabbid?

Him being the face of ATs does not mean jack **** for Nintendo to care or not. About the Reggie qoute... you do know that there is something called PR... Just because he "gives the message", doesn't mean that NoJ will take it serious. And wow... an alt in odessey is such a big deal to be added.... Would they care more about him, they would have added him in the RPG spinoffs, the Wario Ware games or maybe even do another Wario Land with him being the second option

But like I said before. Waa doesn't benefit them as much as the 3rd party mentioned or markering material like Sylux, a Gen8 or potentially even a LoZ depending on when Botw2 arrives. His chances died when he were revealed as an AT

 

[Firox]

Now sure, maybe over 75% of the roster was made up of highly requested characters people have wanted for ages, but since those weren't any of the ones I personally wanted, they don't count.

Your logic is pretty sound. Obviously, they don't give a rat's balls about characters people would like regardless of ballots and online polls. Only my own personal preferences should dictate future characters.

 

[Polarthief]

regardless of ballots and online polls.

Pushdustin definitely mistranslated.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

You know on the subject of Ryu Hayabusa

Is it possible that insiders that kept saying he was in got that because they heard Koei Tecmo was involved in the DLC and assumed it was him, but it was because they were behind Three Houses?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Did you even read what I just wrote? Nintendo does not care about the charachter to the point they allow Next level Games to have him make a "crouch shot" as one of the victoryposes when he score a goal yet the likes of Mario needs to stay vanillia in the same game

And what big role? Being a minorbadguy in Mario Tennis and be a Rabbid in Mario + Rabbid?

Him being the face of ATs does not mean jack **** for Nintendo to care or not. About the Reggie qoute... you do know that there is something called PR... Just because he "gives the message", doesn't mean that NoJ will take it serious. And wow... an alt in odessey is such a big deal to be added.... Would they care more about him, they would have added him in the RPG spinoffs, the Wario Ware games or maybe even do another Wario Land with him being the second option

But like I said before. Waa doesn't benefit them as much as the 3rd party mentioned or markering material like Sylux, a Gen8 or potentially even a LoZ depending on when Botw2 arrives. His chances died when he were revealed as an AT

I don’t see why the crotch shot is a problem, Strikers was a little more mature in general wasn’t it? I just thought it was something cool they did with his character, I mean it wouldn’t have the same effect if they gave it to everyone.

Yes, I know what PR is, but by your logic, Sakurai also lied about liking Geno. Reggie straight-up said Waluigi was his favorite character in tennis or MK or whatever, and still laughed about fans loudly begging for him and gave a good response about the whole thing. I doubt no one else at Nintendo cares about him; not because of what Reggie said when he was there, but because he’s still a big character for their Mario spinoffs and is popular. ATs are included to delight fans with their character’s appearance when they couldn’t be playable, even if it doesn’t go the way they hope a lot of the time, so I do think it shows they and Sakurai care about him (else why use him at all?).

Yeah, they could use him for RPGs and Wario’s games, but Wario doesn’t appear in the RPGs either (neither do a lot of other characters they care about) and his games focus on him and whatever unique characters he has to go up against for treasure and whatever (with Warioware just being him making games for cash with everyone else being a character unique to those games), so I’m not sure Waluigi’s lack of appearance in those games really show they don’t care.

The Odyssey outfit wasn’t very big, but they still had it when they could’ve said “meh, who cares” and gave a silly description wondering if he’ll get his own game. If they don’t care, why is it there?

Does he not have good roles? He’s Wario’s sidekick, a boss in DDR, and is always a unique playable character. He was gone in MK7, but they brought him back and haven’t removed him again since. He’s gotten a spotlight reskin in Tour, too. The GCN tennis game had him and Wario as a big focus alongside Bowser (at least the cutscenes make it look that way, haven’t played the game, but they still cared to use him as a main character for those).

And while he doesn’t market much, he could still be upgraded, being a big popular 1st-party. What you’re saying also goes against Geno. They’re both still big fan requests with evidence that Nintendo does care about them to an extent. I guess they care about Daisy even less than Waluigi according to all this, but she still got in (as an echo, but still).

 

[Antho]

Let me ask y'all that belives Waluigi is getting in

This is a charachter that Nintendo does not care about what so ever. There is a reason why the spinoff games get away with what they implement with him (just look at the Strikers franchise from next level games for crying out louf)

With that in mind.... we also have
Master Chief
Dante
Pheonix Wright
Geno
Sepiroth
Laura Croft
Sora
Crash
DoomGuy
Steve from Minecraft

To name a few, all way more requested charachters and charachter they could add to strenght the relationship between said company(s). But why Byleth you might ask then? Because marketing a recently released game. And with how they treat Waluigi as a charachter, he will never be in thesame position. Thats why people are betting on Sylux or a Gen8

Waluigis chance died when he were revealed as an AT

If you really want an answer, I don’t see him getting in. At all.
I’ve wanted Waluigi for the longest time and I know he probably won’t happen. At least for Ultimate.
In the off chance that they are promoting AT’s though, Waluigi has a sliver of a chance but I’d prefer them to upgrade Isaac (who, even though I know next to nothing about Golden Sun, I know a lot of people want.)
I mostly just want Geno even though I’ve barely played SMRPG, but I know enough about it and Geno to know Geno should probably get in before Waluigi.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Forgive me for bringing up old news, but what was the 3 dates the Devil May Cry director said to look out for? I'm curious about the 3rd date and if that's the day we actually get the freaking Direct.

 

[Lyncario]

Forgive me for bringing up old news, but what was the 3 dates the Devil May Cry director said to look out for? I'm curious about the 3rd date and if that's the day we actually get the freaking Direct.

That was in February, and they revealed bloody palace co-op on the day they anounced it.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

That was in February, and they revealed bloody palace co-op on the day they anounced it.

3rd date though what was it?

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

You know on the subject of Ryu Hayabusa

Is it possible that insiders that kept saying he was in got that because they heard Koei Tecmo was involved in the DLC and assumed it was him, but it was because they were behind Three Houses?

On the note of Ryu, can someone explain where this support materialized from? It honestly feels like "w-well Papagenos said this guy who guessed Plant and shifty both said so, so he must be in" and "MegaMan and Castlevania were big bed games, so more nes third parties are on the way".

Nothing against Ryu or his fans, hell Geno started in a similar way back during brawl speculation. I'm just wondering what caused him to be brought up so much?

 

[Firox]

If you really want an answer, I don’t see him getting in. At all.
I’ve wanted Waluigi for the longest time and I know he probably won’t happen. At least for Ultimate.
In the off chance that they are promoting AT’s though, Waluigi has a sliver of a chance but I’d prefer them to upgrade Isaac (who, even though I know next to nothing about Golden Sun, I know a lot of people want.)
I mostly just want Geno even though I’ve barely played SMRPG, but I know enough about it and Geno to know Geno should probably get in before Waluigi.

I gotta say, if any AT gets upgraded, I agree it should be Isaac because:

A) I feel his moveset would be more unique and interesting than Waluigi's
B) It would introduce an entirely new world and franchise to the game
C) It could serve as the much needed defibrillator for the Golden Sun franchise (finish the saga, dammit!)
D) Isaac's demand was/is arguably greater than Waluigi's

Granted, many of these points are highly subjective, but that's just my take.

 

[MattX20]

You know on the subject of Ryu Hayabusa

Is it possible that insiders that kept saying he was in got that because they heard Koei Tecmo was involved in the DLC and assumed it was him, but it was because they were behind Three Houses?

Until all 6 season 2 DLC characters are revealed, Koei Tecmo still has a shot for a rep. I'm not ruling them out, much like how I won't rule Geno out

 

[Icewolff92]

I don’t see why the crotch shot is a problem, Strikers was a little more mature in general wasn’t it? I just thought it was something cool they did with his character, I mean it wouldn’t have the same effect if they gave it to everyone.

I¨m saying that Nintendo demanding Mario be vanilla in this game, but they give Next Level Games no strains with Waluigi. That¨s why I mean with what they don¨t care about him

Yes, I know what PR is, but by your logic, Sakurai also lied about liking Geno. Reggie straight-up said Waluigi was his favorite character, and still laughed about fans loudly begging for him and gave a good response about the whole thing. I doubt no one else at Nintendo cares about him; not because of what Reggie said when he was there, but because he’s still a big character for their Mario spinoffs and is popular. ATs are included to delight fans with their character’s appearance when they couldn’t be playable, even if it doesn’t go the way they hope a lot of the time, so I do think it shows they and Sakurai care about him (else why use him at all?).

The fact that you compared Sakurai¨s own statement about his approach, to Reggie claiming that he will talk to his bosses about it is quite funny. They are far from the same thing.

Does he not have good roles? He’s Wario’s sidekick, a boss in DDR, and is always a unique playable character. He was gone in MK7, but they brought him back and haven’t removed him again since. He’s gotten a spotlight reskin in Tour, too. The GCN tennis game had him and Wario as a big focus alongside Bowser (at least the cutscenes make it look that way, haven’t played the game, but they still cared to use him as a main character for those).

Yet Wario has games and still continues to get with his Wario Ware. Waluigi? He is only in the spin-off and not even a major character there. The cinematic in GCN Tennis is just pure humor. There is no story, to begin within that game. Yes, he is in the spinoff games... but there is also a **** ton of baby versions as well..

And while he doesn’t market much, he could still be upgraded, being a big popular 1st-party. What you’re saying also goes against Geno. They’re both still big fan requests with evidence that Nintendo does care about them to an extent. I guess they care about Daisy even less than Waluigi according to all this, but she still got in (as an echo, but still).

No, it does not go against Geno. You want to know why? Square is owning Geno, not Nintendo. And in a worst-case scenario, would Geno arrive, he would be this pass version of Banjo Kazooie. A major inclusion that would not come with anything else, but would strengthen the relationship between Nintendo and Square, like how Banjos inclusion did between Nintendo and Microsoft

Upgrade Geno - creates strength between Nintendo and a 3rd party company
A Byleth example of upgrading someone - Upgrade Isaac if they want to do another Golden Sun.

Waluigi does not cover any of these areas which is why he makes no sense for Nintendo to be a DLC.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I gotta say, if any AT gets upgraded, I agree it should be Isaac because:

A) I feel his moveset would be more unique and interesting than Waluigi's
B) It would introduce an entirely new world and franchise to the game
C) It could serve as the much needed defibrillator for the Golden Sun franchise (finish the saga, dammit!)
D) Isaac's demand was/is arguably greater than Waluigi's

Granted, many of these points are highly subjective, but that's just my take.

I agree with you on Isaac being potentially more unique as a fighter than Waluigi and Isaac bringing a entire new world to the game. But I don't really agree Isaac is more popular than Waluigi or vice versa. But damn do I really want Krystal badly. I literally see her as a pipedream right now, but that doesn't mean I won't stop supporting her onwards towards the next game. If we are getting one Assist Trophy promotion it's either going to be Waluigi or Isaac and something tells me Nintendo would probably see more money in the Wah.

 

[Deleted member]

All Englishmen are citizens of the U.K., but not all citizens of the U.K. are Englishmen.

I also don't want to mislead. I don't think every DLC = new game, but that is an obvious way to expand the value of the deal. I also don't think every negotiation is "we'll put X in Smash, so what will you bring to Switch?" Think of it this way: Nintendo and 3rd party want to get as much out of the deal as possible. It's not a zero-sum negotiation; there's no ceiling. You can see the contours of these deals in every 3rd party DLC release. They are all different in various ways, but they are similar in size and the distribution of value.

The deal you outlined for Geno doesn't work in this case. An important component of the deal between Nintendo and MS is that MS retained the added value to Banjo's IP. They can unilaterally capitalize on that value on their own console according to their own strategy. This is why they gave Nintendo so much in return (Cuphead, Ori).

SE cannot unilaterally capitalize on the added value to Geno's IP. They would not port other games to Switch in exchange for a benefit they did not actually receive. This cuts to the heart of the unique challenge Geno imposes.

The challenge I'm putting to you is this: how would you make a deal for Geno that is 1) similar to other DLC in size and 2) equitable for Square Enix and Nintendo?

I understand, you'll have to forgive my incorrect assumptions. Now that you've put it like this, I think that it's questionable if there's any value to Geno's IP in the first place. They didn't start sticking him in their games after Super Mario RPG. He's not used in Square's goofier stuff like Chocobo Racing and he wasn't used in future crossovers with Mario characters like Fortune Street and Mario Hoops. He is unfortunately a Mario character owned by someone else... if anything I'd say that the best Square can do to add value to the IP is to either convince Nintendo to collaborate on new Mario RPGs with them, or sell him to Nintendo, same with Mallow and anything else in Super Mario RPG that screams "Mario" more than it does Final Fantasy or similar Square RPGs. Square would win in both situations. Looking at it like this, I'd argue that Square wins a ton at the baseline because no matter what, Nintendo's having to pay them for the right to use a character made for their game, 24 years later.

Overall, the Banjo comparison is apt because I understand where you're coming from - Banjo hasn't had a game in something like 15 years and Microsoft was doing nothing with him, but they do have a launchpad now. I'll go ahead and admit again that Geno has no such benefit, and really all we can hope for is that Nintendo finds it meaningful to please another longtime fan group. Fatman has mentioned the rumor of a Square character mii costume that some would consider indie - and I believe it could be argued that the Mii costumes are just as important in terms of advertisement as the fighter. If Geno comes with some kind of Sans-tier bombshell Square costume that totally overshadows him as a fighter, so be it, I just want him in as a fighter, public opinion of him be damned.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

On the note of Ryu, can someone explain where this support materialized from? It honestly feels like "w-well Papagenos said this guy who guessed Plant and shifty both said so, so he must be in" and "MegaMan and Castlevania were big bed games, so more nes third parties are on the way".

Nothing against Ryu or his fans, hell Geno started in a similar way back during brawl speculation. I'm just wondering what caused him to be brought up so much?

IAmShifty once said Hayabusa was FP4 and Terry was FP5. When Terry was FP4, Shifty said it’s possible the order was switched around. After Byleth, Shifty just... disappeared

shifty originally leaked PP iirc

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Ninte is letting many of NoA employee's work from home because of the virus

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Ninte is letting many of NoA employee's work from home because of the virus

Is this a joke or is this real? If real, source?

 

[Firox]

If we are getting one Assist Trophy promotion it's either going to be Waluigi or Isaac and something tells me Nintendo would probably see more money in the Wah.

I agree that if we get an AT promotion, it'll be Waluigi or Isaac, though I would personally disagree with Nintendo if they thought Waluigi would generate more money than Isaac/Golden Sun. Golden Sun was a great franchise even on Gameboy/DS. I could only imagine how off-the-hook it would be to have a high-def sequel for the Switch. Putting Isaac in could mean the revival of an entire franchise, while Waluigi would offer what? He's a side character of Mario spin-off games. He doesn't have his own franchise like Wario does and to be frank, MARIO is the one that sells Mario spin-offs. I honestly don't see ANY long-term advantages to putting him in. If they did, it would be for fan demand alone.

 

[ForsakenM]

I gotta say, if any AT gets upgraded, I agree it should be Isaac because:

A) I feel his moveset would be more unique and interesting than Waluigi's
B) It would introduce an entirely new world and franchise to the game
C) It could serve as the much needed defibrillator for the Golden Sun franchise (finish the saga, dammit!)
D) Isaac's demand was/is arguably greater than Waluigi's

Granted, many of these points are highly subjective, but that's just my take.

So first off, you agree this is highly subjective, so note that I'm not bashing or anything nor acting like these are facts, but rather offering the other side.

A) If you think a man who is skill in dancing, Olympic sports, kart racing, professional tennis, golf, soccer, basketball, dodgeball, hockey, baseball, volleyball, basketball, has survived Mario Party for years as well as defeating Bowser single-handedly and convincingly who also has some sort of water-bending powers and loves to use bombs and utilizes underhanded and dirty trick maneuvers isn't unique and interesting...I mean, idk what to tell you. Just look at Waluigi and Isaac in in Smash Flash 2 and that both of them are extremely unique.

B) I can't really argue with this one as introducing Golden Sun Spirits, more music and a stage would offer more than Waluigi could...but honestly, I can't tell me that a stage dedicated to all the sports spin-offs or just a Mario Party stage with some Mario Party mechanics wouldn't be fantastic.

C) Some would argue that it's just as important for Waluigi as it would finally prove him as more than a non-important side character that everyone loves but 'Nintendo hates'. I mean, in Odyssey, they make fun of him via the Waluigi outfit with the hat description saying 'It's rarely worn' showing that THEY KNOW he's never in anything important despite fans screaming for it. With either Waluigi or Isaac, it's justice for that fanbase if they make it, but with some of the rumors and evidence going around Golden Sun may not need Smash's help in the long run...

D) This is objectively just wrong. Waluigi is a Mario character that has had ridiculous love for him for a very long time. He is clearly more popular than Isaac is right now and while I will acknowledge that perhaps at one point MAYBE Isaac had more pull for him in Smash that is most definitely no longer the case.

 

[Deleted member]

Is this a joke or is this real? If real, source?

Nintendo is headquartered in the Seattle area which just so happens to be the hardest hit area in the States so far (California is likely going to take that spot and I honestly expected it to show up there first). Amazon and Microsoft have begun letting employees telecommute so it isn't outlandish to think Nintendo would too.

For customer service jobs over the phone and most IT work, it's kind of archaic to ask people to come to a centralized office, epidemic or not. There is definitely a need to have some hands on positions, but programmers/developers and phone handlers would be better off staying at home unless they can't help themselves from being distracted.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I agree that if we get an AT promotion, it'll be Waluigi or Isaac, though I would personally disagree with Nintendo if they thought Waluigi would generate more money than Isaac/Golden Sun. Golden Sun was a great franchise even on Gameboy/DS. I could only imagine how off-the-hook it would be to have a high-def sequel for the Switch. Putting Isaac in could mean the revival of an entire franchise, while Waluigi would offer what? He's a side character of Mario spin-off games. He doesn't have his own franchise like Wario does and to be frank, MARIO is the one that sells Mario spin-offs. I honestly don't see ANY long-term advantages to putting him in. If they did, it would be for fan demand alone.

1. Waluigi is a SUPER popular Mario character so people would be in a long *** line from Florida to Alaska to get him if he was a object.

2. Waluigi upon inclusion could set him up to be a true main member of the cast getting in mainline Mario games and perhaps a game of his own.

3. The fan demand only argument you just brought up that being the only factor to Waluigi's inclusion also counts for Isaac as well.

 

[QQS]

This is us. I have been growing up waiting for this moment since I first played SMRPG in 1996. Now I will be 30 years in July and it’s about to happen, there is no other option than March-June; #76-#77.

He is gonna be in. After 24 long years: GENO SHINES ONCE AGAIN!

 

[Polarthief]

You know on the subject of Ryu Hayabusa

Is it possible that insiders that kept saying he was in got that because they heard Koei Tecmo was involved in the DLC and assumed it was him, but it was because they were behind Three Houses?

Probably. I also don't see the fan demand for him. Yeah a lot of people know about Ninja Gaiden/Gayden, but as of late I don't remember seeing anyone gaf about Hayabusa, and TBH I *still* don't see people giving a crap about him. I see people naming him purely because of those insider rumors (that turned out to be 100% wrong for DLC 5, obviously) that were backing him. He could still come in purely because of Koei Tecmo to give them a slot, but idk, he just doesn't seem all that important to add compared to plenty of others they could pick, even ones currently in the game like Isaac or Waluigi.

 

[Icewolff92]

Nah.

But yes, Waluigi will never be upgraded for reason mentioned about to CJ

 

[Lagguino]

You see that box on the left side next to the smiling icon? Click that and two options will show up. One allows you to drop the image in the box while the other has you put in the image address in it. Afterwards just click insert and you're done.

Thank you so much...now have this geno & mallow drawing i posted everywhere except here.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Is this a joke or is this real? If real, source?

well it is ****aku so take this with a grain of salt
https://kotaku.com/microsoft-bungie-enact-work-from-home-policies-in-resp-1842133691

 

[Fatmanonice]

You know on the subject of Ryu Hayabusa

Is it possible that insiders that kept saying he was in got that because they heard Koei Tecmo was involved in the DLC and assumed it was him, but it was because they were behind Three Houses?

This is my personal belief now based on a number of things:

-Tecmo recently (January, I believe) admitted that there's not really any future plans for Ninja Gaiden at the moment.

-Ryu was never super hard requested to begin with until the rumors started.

-Nothing Tecmo has ever come up in insider rumors aside from Ryu.

-The elephant in the room that there's absolutely no Hyrule Warriors or Fire Emblem Warriors content in Ultimate.

-One of my guys flat out telling me that Ryu wasn't in back in December.

 

[SSGuy]

It's a large possibility that the coronavirus is the reason why we aren't receiving a Nintendo Direct and it only disappoints me more to see that people are just asking for one when they are well aware of what is going on.

It's as bad of a look as the time Isaac/Sora fanboys were trying to tie the earthquake as a confirmation for their character.

It's a natural disaster....

I'm sure the last thing on their mind at that time was some make believe anime swordsmen. (Sorry, but seeing those two communities act that way was such a ****ty/embarrassing time to be a Smash fan. Nothing personal to the GS boys and girls. Majority of y'all are great!)

Regarding everything going on. I can most certainly wait for Geno's confirmation/deconfirmation. We have until December 2021 to know all the characters after all.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Probably. I also don't see the fan demand for him. Yeah a lot of people know about Ninja Gaiden/Gayden, but as of late I don't remember seeing anyone gaf about Hayabusa, and TBH I *still* don't see people giving a crap about him. I see people naming him purely because of those insider rumors (that turned out to be 100% wrong for DLC 5, obviously) that were backing him. He could still come in purely because of Koei Tecmo to give them a slot, but idk, he just doesn't seem all that important to add compared to plenty of others they could pick, even ones currently in the game like Isaac or Waluigi.

I'm not saying it's all Hayabusa supporters, but the main reason I believe a lot of people want him in Smash is because they see him as the last big NES icon still not yet in the roster. I don't get this either since we are also still missing Lance Bean/Bill Rizer from Contra, Arthur from Ghosts & Goblins, and the Battletoads. He really isn't the last big NES icon not yet in the roster like everybody hypes him up to be.