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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Polarthief

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Not sure if the two songs per game is really a thing, either. The rights to Final Fantasy’s music have to be obtained from their composer, who makes them really expensive, and same for the DQ composer though I guess the cost of the midis isn’t as bad for him. Yoko Shimomura, on the other hand, already works on Smash remixes as well as the M&L series, and SMRPG music likely wouldn’t be that difficult to include even if Square themselves has to be talked to regarding music.

To be honest, though, I don’t know/haven’t seen the costs for the FF and DQ music myself; I just based this on what others have said, and the DQ composer especially sounds hard to work with. People have said SE outsources for music and stuff a lot, usually putting the rights in a legal or expensive mess.
TBH I feel like they could make some remixes/add more Mario RPG songs (PM/M&L since both of those are basically spin-offs of SMRPG), but may only be limited to 2 of the actual game's songs. Or maybe not even and they could get more, who knows? Geno and SMRPG as a whole are in a VERY weird place; some assets being owned by Nintendo and some by SE. Whether there's 2 songs or more, it's still "more than 1", which would be scary if it was 1 because that's what premium Mii costumes are getting, and it's still SMRPG songs. If those don't point to Geno, I don't know what it could possibly point to.
 
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BluYoshi828

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People are bringing up the music, figured this is a good time to mention this. On one of my old YouTube Channels, I had a full longplay of Super Mario RPG uploaded that never once got copyright matched. Could be because of the music mixing with the sound effects, but still. Whether that's a point in favor of or against Geno, or if it's just YouTube being YouTube, I feel like an argument could be made either way. But I did take note of the fact that exactly two songs were what kept setting off the content matching system at the time... which lines up roughly with ho Square treated Cloud's inclusion.

I would hope, given the situation, that Geno's inclusion would at least bring a remix or two, especially considering the original composer is already on Smash and worst-case there's other RPG music veterans on board to chime in with their takes if needbe.

...Oh but there I go getting excited about potential remixes of Mario RPG music. Haven't gotten too many of those. I did like the Paper Mario medley FWIW.
 

SpiritOfRuin

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Alright, let's dive in.

So what are they for then? Nintendo's been way more lax with that kind of stuff. Why only take down those two specific songs and not the entire soundtrack?

He has a Sm4sh costume and an Ultimate spirit, as well as being a battle in World of Light. That's significantly better than Sora, MC, Lloyd, Dante, Crash, etc. This is an absolutely moot point.

I will scream fan rules when people keeping saying "SPIRITS DECONFIRM" and "X Y Z DECONFIRMS" when there's absolutely no reason for them to. We also now have hard proof that spirits can be renamed and have their battles modified (which isn't "evidence", but it's still a boon to Geno), and even in the past, Trophies didn't deconfirm (Lucas being DLC in Sm4sh).

If they were going to just bring back his original costume though, why delay it? That makes no sense. Stick it in the Hero Mii Costume wave.
Also if you're saying Premium costume, I did say that had a chance of happening, but it's almost guaranteed to be that or, more likely, he will be playable. Nintendo would be absolutely dumb as hell to bring back the original costume after waiting this long (though TBH they'd also be dumb to make another costume for him).

But you are ignoring evidence and just waving them off as coincidences. You also said "I think the music takedowns have nothing to do with Geno in Smash", and said nothing else about them. You gave a moot point about Geno having little content in base game, yet it's still LOADS more than any of the other characters I named who have literally zilch in Ultimate (though some like Lloyd did have costumes and content in Sm4sh). I do not get your point at all here.

Because you just waved it all off. Sakurai literally saying he likes Geno, he's perfect for Smash, and he even wanted him in. I'm willing to bet he pushed for Sm4sh as well but in the end he became a Mii costume. If all we're getting is his returning Mii costume, again, where is it? There's absolutely no reason to prolong it like this. Sakurai (and therefore, Nintendo) are well aware of the fan demand, and this is potentially the last Smash Bros game where they're trying to make as many people as possible happy. Yes, that point is subjective, but mixed with other evidence, it really starts to make sense. Just one last reminder that all other characters have *NOTHING* going for them, and Geno has all this stuff you're choosing to ignore.

I'll obviously state that no evidence will ever be 100% because nothing ever is until we see that splash screen, but if you wave off a bunch of stuff that adds up, then it seems like no evidence will matter to you, and at this point, we'll just agree to disagree.
Certainly agree to disagree and there's nothing wrong with that. But again I mean no offense. Evidence clearly means different things to different people. I do want to make one clarification since it's clear you consider SMRPG presence in base game a good thing where I'm saying it's not. Characters who have gotten in in DLC (except PP who was clearly supposed to be base) have had no representation in base game previously meaning that's a bad thing for Geno (Three Houses is for some reason considered separate from other FE content which is a odd but was absent from the base game).

I understand the argument is that FP2 is the wild west and may not follow but we have no way of knowing that. Should DLC continue to follow this then characters you mentioned who have no prior representation in Ultimate are in a "better" spot in that one aspect that we do have a precedent for. This equally could mean nothing much like many points for or against Geno could mean nothing. The problem is we just don't know and it's especially frustrating how convoluted the character selection process is.

It's fine if you think I'm merely waiving all your "evidence" off but I've put a lot of thought into these arguments and simply don't see it the same way. Hopefully for our sake you're correct tho. I just hope everyone knows I'm saying all this as a Geno bro with the only intention of providing a differing lens through which to view things which is merely my opinion and could and has been wrong before. If I am wrong I'll gladly take the L. Although I'm not saying by any means that Geno won't get in just that his chances are roughly the same as other characters. Nintendo makes no sense to me and boy do they like it that way.
 

Polarthief

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Characters who have gotten in in DLC (except PP who was clearly supposed to be base) have had no representation in base game previously meaning that's a bad thing for Geno (Three Houses is for some reason considered separate from other FE content which is a odd but was absent from the base game).
Okay, so you told me in your previous post to not bother with fan rules, and now... you're making another fan rule... Then also immediately discreding yourself by pointing out 2 DLC characters that break the fanrule. Next I guess you'll just "forget" about Mewtwo, Lucas (also having a trophy), and Roy from Smash 4.

I understand the argument is that FP2 is the wild west and may not follow but we have no way of knowing that. Should DLC continue to follow this then characters you mentioned who have no prior representation in Ultimate are in a "better" spot in that one aspect that we do have a precedent for.
"Ignore the evidence that paints a pattern and instead go with these fanrules that are also 100% based on patterns that I have also disproved literally a sentence above this one."

It's fine if you think I'm merely waiving all your "evidence" off but I've put a lot of thought into these arguments and simply don't see it the same way.
I'm sorry but no. You're telling me to ignore things that have happened both in the past and in the present, then telling me to look at fanrules based on patterns, again, some of which have already been disproved.

I just hope everyone knows I'm saying all this as a Geno bro with the only intention of providing a differing lens through which to view things which is merely my opinion and could and has been wrong before.
Which is fine, but you're immediately disproving yourself and telling us to go by fanrule patterns. I'm aware nothing is 100% but why are you choosing to just ignore evidence towards a pattern but are totally okay with putting faith in fan-made patterns, some of which have already been disproved?

Although I'm not saying by any means that Geno won't get in just that his chances are roughly the same as other characters.
I have to disagree since no other character has evidence of such, especially given that some of these characters weren't even on the table until just recently. Geno's been on the table since Melee. He's even got the creator of the game backing him. He now has fairly strong evidence regarding his missing costume and copyright takedown songs, 2 of which in fact, which also forms a pattern that we've seen with both Cloud and Hero. But again, feel free to ignore all of that and just be like "nah his chances are just as equal". Again, by no means am I saying he's a sure thing, but something Geno/SMRPG-related is happening. Whether it's in Smash or not, I don't know, but *something* is happening. It seems incredibly unlikely we'd get a remake of the game and more songs would need to be copyright taken down (the entire soundtrack) if that was necessary to put the game on NSO. There's just too many signs right now and it seems way more likely that it's relating to Smash, given Geno's history with the series.

Nintendo makes no sense to me and boy do they like it that way.
The one thing I can finally agree with you on, but that doesn't mean we should be ignoring evidence.


PS: I'll leave you with these last questions:
- If they're bringing back his costume, why wait this long just to massively disappoint people who want him? That may have "settled" us for Sm4sh, but it will not for a second time in a row. Also, normal costumes don't come with songs, so what happens to those two songs?
- If they're making a premium costume, see above. Exact same argument, minus the songs part... kinda (since premium costumes have both come with 1 so far, instead of 2).
- If they're doing nothing with him, why were the songs copyright taken down?
 
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link2702

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So here’s a question for folks....what would y’alls reaction be if when geno gets revealed, he only gets two music tracks from smrpg....and like 20 all from classic ff games (ff1-6)?
 

Polarthief

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So here’s a question for folks....what would y’alls reaction be if when geno gets revealed, he only gets two music tracks from smrpg....and like 20 all from classic ff games (ff1-6)?
I'll gladly take Geno with 0 songs, I don't care. More music is always better, but as long as he gets in is what's important. I also doubt he'll get FF songs considering Cloud only got two and only from his own game. If anything, they'd give Geno Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi songs first.
 
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link2702

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I'll gladly take Geno with 0 songs, I don't care. More music is always better, but as long as he gets in is what's important. I also doubt he'll get FF songs considering Cloud only got two and only from his own game. If anything, they'd give Geno Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi songs first.
The reason i ask that is just simply cuz at this point we all are convinced square is stupidly stingy with the music, and this would turn that idea on its head. Like, what if square only wants cloud associated with ff7 content only.

Idk, just something that popped in my head right now

WE NEED NEWS NOW OR ILL GO INSANE FFFHGGJTFRRRKBVVB;!
 

Polarthief

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The reason i ask that is just simply cuz at this point we all are convinced square is stupidly stingy with the music, and this would turn that idea on its head. Like, what if square only wants cloud associated with ff7 content only.

Idk, just something that popped in my head right now
I mean, it's possible... can't really say much more than that *shrug*.

WE NEED NEWS NOW OR ILL GO INSANE FFFHGGJTFRRRKBVVB;!
Yes. Yes we do. Animal Crossing is going live in like, what, 5 weeks? If we go those 5 weeks and get no direct, I swear to **** I'm going to be royally pissed off.
 
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Lord Woomy

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I'll gladly take Geno with 0 songs, I don't care. More music is always better, but as long as he gets in is what's important. I also doubt he'll get FF songs considering Cloud only got two and only from his own game. If anything, they'd give Geno Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi songs first.
I'm gonna have to disagree on this one, if we don't get BTFM I will riot
 

JarBear

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Here is hoping for news this week as everyone is getting stir crazy. At the moment, this may be Nintendo's view regarding Nintendo fans waiting for the direct.

 

Lyncario

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So here’s a question for folks....what would y’alls reaction be if when geno gets revealed, he only gets two music tracks from smrpg....and like 20 all from classic ff games (ff1-6)?
I would proceed to write a letter to Square Enix, "kindly" asking them what the hell is wrong with their copyright section. Seriously, it would be so stupid, like, it would out-stupid a scenario where Sora joins a dlc, has One-Winged-Angel as one of his tracks, and yet it cannot play on Midgar.
 

Polarthief

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I'm gonna have to disagree on this one, if we don't get BTFM I will riot
Which is totally fine and I super-doubt we'd ever get a character w/o a single song anyway because, well, that'd literally be false advertising since all Challenger Packs come with a character, stage, and "some music".

Goes to show how "evil" they may be with these Directs and making fans wait.
I mean they have done a handful of scummy anti-consumer things lately with the lawsuits regarding eshop refunds and... crap I completely blanked on the other and I'm too lazy to look it up.

Also the Gacha stuff. That *needs* to stop before it leaks into premium titles.
 

CannonStreak

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Which is totally fine and I super-doubt we'd ever get a character w/o a single song anyway because, well, that'd literally be false advertising since all Challenger Packs come with a character, stage, and "some music".



I mean they have done a handful of scummy anti-consumer things lately with the lawsuits regarding eshop refunds and... crap I completely blanked on the other and I'm too lazy to look it up.

Also the Gacha stuff. That *needs* to stop before it leaks into premium titles.
Gacha stuff? I am sorry, but what do you mean by that?
 

Fatmanonice

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So here’s a question for folks....what would y’alls reaction be if when geno gets revealed, he only gets two music tracks from smrpg....and like 20 all from classic ff games (ff1-6)?
Not the worst of compromises. Final Fantasy has some pretty bangin' music so getting even 20 straight rips would be amazing.
 

TX-55

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So here’s a question for folks....what would y’alls reaction be if when geno gets revealed, he only gets two music tracks from smrpg....and like 20 all from classic ff games (ff1-6)?
It's not impossible, but I don't think it'll happen, would be amazing though.
But honestly, if they can at least put Fight Against Culex, that'd be enough for me since the original track is from my favorite Final Fantasy game, FFIV.

EDIT: I just hope that Geno reps all Mario RPG games, and not just SMRPG, want me some TTYD remixes.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Hey Fatmanonice Fatmanonice you mentioned how your contact said the final character of S2 was negotiated for, and how they're extremely confident in who it is. Would be okay to get a hint or two? I'm curious how much of an impact this pick would be.
Remember from which company was the easiest to get the character from in the first pass?
That's your answer.
Like OffBi OffBi said. It starts with a M, can you guess it?

It was like a trade event but specifically for Nintendo. They stopped it in the early 2000’s when E3 became more popular. The only problem with Space World was that it was only held specifically in Japan and it wasn’t annual so Nintendo would just announce it on the fly. Kind of like their Directs, just minus the Twitter.
One good thing about Spaceworld that E3 didn't had was being able to play prototypes/betas of unreleased games. Earthbound 64 the beta N64 version of Mother 3 had a playable demo at Spaceworld 1999: https://earthboundcentral.com/2009/03/playing-the-earthbound-64-demo/
 

RetrogamerMax

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Woo hoo! Now I just wonder what I am going to do next (at the kingdom).
Make Geno one of your advisers or generals? Bring peace to the land? Become a evil dictator and suck the kingdom's wealth? Declare war on other nations and conquer them with a iron fist? You can either be the Ultimate good guy or bad guy, your choice.
 

Polarthief

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Gacha stuff? I am sorry, but what do you mean by that?
Gachapon, like loot boxes and the like. All of the Nintendo titles on mobile have tons of Gacha/loot box stuff, and it's worrying since Nintendo was one of the last holdouts on that kind of ****. If that spills into premium titles, I will be very pissed.
 
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MisterMike

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So here’s a question for folks....what would y’alls reaction be if when geno gets revealed, he only gets two music tracks from smrpg....and like 20 all from classic ff games (ff1-6)?
Wouldn't even be mad, that'd be pretty great.
 

DaxMasterix

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So here’s a question for folks....what would y’alls reaction be if when geno gets revealed, he only gets two music tracks from smrpg....and like 20 all from classic ff games (ff1-6)?
I know they wouldn't have any problem in bring up the original Koji Kondo themes that were arranged by Shimomura Yoko in SMRPG,
But I do hope Geno will bring the Culex Theme (aka. Boss Theme from FF4) as well :3
 
D

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Okay but hear me out, if the tracks are from SilvaGunner, I will never ask for anything ever again!
 

RetrogamerMax

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I am in the mindset that if we get to see FP6 before E3, we won't be getting a double reveal in June. You have to think about how the announcements and release dates of the 6 fighters have to keep in pace all the way to December of 2021. Otherwise, double reveals at E3 2020 and 2021 will have us with similar news droughts like we have now.
 
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D

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I am in the mindset that if we get to see FP6 before E3, we won't be getting a double reveal in June. You have to think about how the announcements and release dates of the 6 fighters have to keep in pace all the way to December of 2021. Otherwise, double reveals at E3 2020 and 2021 will have us with similar news droughts like we have now.
Yeah I think they’ll probably space it out even more. But, a double reveal at E3 if we get a direct with no Smash reveal.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Yeah I think they’ll probably space it out even more. But, a double reveal at E3 if we get a direct with no Smash reveal.
Absolutely. That scenario seems more realistic honestly to me. The gap between the announcements of Joker and Hero was half a year apart from each other VGAs and E3 respectively. So I could see them having us wait until E3 again.
 
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MissingGlitch

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I'm baaaaaack. I'm sure you all talked about it already.

But congrats on Nintendo willing to edit spirit battles depending on what DLC you have.
 

Ray102396

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I am in the mindset that if we get to see FP6 before E3, we won't be getting a double reveal in June. You have to think about how the announcements and release dates of the 6 fighters have to keep in pace all the way to December of 2021. Otherwise, double reveals at E3 2020 and 2021 will have us with similar news droughts like we have now.
I'm pretty sure it was said that "December 2021" was just a placeholder date, not an actual end date. I highly doubt it'll be that long until we get all the characters. Personally I feel like we'll get the last one around E3 2021.
 

Vector Victor

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Yeah I think they’ll probably space it out even more. But, a double reveal at E3 if we get a direct with no Smash reveal.
Pretty much. If there is no Direct Smash news, we are 99.999999% sure to get it at E3. But in that case, I'd be shocked if it was just one reveal at that point.

Still, offering the sale of the pass without mentioning what's on it for 6 months? That looks stupid. At least pass 1 had Joker at the time.
 

Polarthief

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Pretty much. If there is no Direct Smash news, we are 99.999999% sure to get it at E3. But in that case, I'd be shocked if it was just one reveal at that point.

Still, offering the sale of the pass without mentioning what's on it for 6 months? That looks stupid. At least pass 1 had Joker at the time.
It's basically a guarantee that after E3, we'll see at minimum 2 reveals, if not 3. Whether that's 1/1 at Q1/E3 or 0/2 or 1/2, it doesn't matter. We're seeing 2+ reveals by E3 for sure.

Also not to be That Guy, but it'll be ~4.5 months between Byleth and E3, but still, this is getting a bit ridiculous already.
 
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