Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[CannonStreak]

My favorite allegory for this is a story about an atheist professor that teaches his students that God can't possibly exist.

One of the students tries to insist He does, but the professor says to her, "Have you ever actually seen Him? Have you ever touched Him? Then He must not exist."

The student raises her hand again. The professor smugly nods for her to speak. She retorts, "Well, I assert that you don't have a brain."

The professor wrinkles his brow. "What?! How do you figure?"

The student smiles. "Have you ever actually seen it? Have you ever touched it? Then it must not exist."

Not a bad allegory, but if we can, let’s keep religion out of this, okay?

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

This seems like it's putting the cart before the horse, and it could easily be used as ammo for people to claim that Geno fans are overconfident, arrogant, or something of that nature. Much like with Ridley, if Geno gets in, I'd just be happy that he's in; I'm not going to seek out reactions of people who are mad about his inclusion.

Consider this: I couldn’t value negative opinions from strangers on the internet any less. If Geno doesn’t get into Smash my life will still be fulfilling as it has been without him in Smash for the past 14 years I’ve supported him. Believe me I won’t be seeking out negative reactions if he gets in, we’ll all be hit over the face with them.

 

[Firox]

Not a bad allegory, but if we can, let’s keep religion out of this, okay?

Totally fine. Just thought it was a funny story regardless of what people believe.

DISCLAIMER: I wasn't trying to inject any religious stuff in here. It was mostly just a metaphorical jab at puritanic empiricism (that's the belief that reality is confined solely to what you can personally perceive).

 

[JoscarGamma]

When Geno gets in, I would be so excited if it means changing the fighter for his spirit to Geno (the fighter). I will restart world of light just to unlock him officially in world of light... I feel Geno deserves that

 

[Sigran101]

It's kind of annoying that Geno's "obstacles" have been getting destroyed one at a time for almost two years now to the point that the only thing that's left is literally one promotion... Of over a thousand spirits with no playable counterpart, just ONE needs to be promoted and that's it. GG. The last major argument against Geno dies in epic fashion. This is also why I don't think Geno or Crash will be 6 because I'm dead set on it being a promotion of some kind. No offense to Geno, he's the Supreme Lad ™ but I don't think Nintendo wants him to have that honor to be the first to make the jump from NPC to fighter in the same game.

I know this is an old post, but I believe that honor actually went to Mewtwo in the last game. The argument was dead before Ultimate was even a thing. People just say it's still valid because they can't think of any other counter arguments.

 

[Deleted member]

I know this is an old post, but I believe that honor actually went to Mewtwo in the last game. The argument was dead before Ultimate was even a thing. People just say it's still valid because they can't think of any other counter arguments.

Mewtwo and Lucas. Mewtwo is sort of a Piranha Plant argument if you want to take it that far - first DLC and a free bonus for purchasing both versions of the game, not quite as obviously slated for base game as Plant, but reasonably close.

Lucas, on the other hand not only was a trophy, but Ness got every one of Lucas' specials as a custom move. No character could have been more dead in the water and yet he still made it back.

 

[TX-55]

Probably about to rattle some jimmies but Byleth's stage is so boring... In my opinion it was the worst of the DLC stages. I know it's hard to live up to Castle Siege but Garreg Mach Monastery is somehow a traveling stage that's bland.

I'm the complete opposite, I think it's one of the best DLC stages including Smash 4 DLC.

Yeah, you could say it's boring because nothing much happens except for locale transition during gameplay.

But the visuals, the aesthetics, that's what grabs my attention, that's also why I think Terry's stage could possibly be the best looking stage in Smash.

I like that we're fighting in a football stadium, and the crowd going wild with every K.O, that **** is HYPE

 

[Lord Woomy]

I know this is an old post, but I believe that honor actually went to Mewtwo in the last game. The argument was dead before Ultimate was even a thing. People just say it's still valid because they can't think of any other counter arguments.

Uhhhh nuh uh actually, you see Geno's a spirit while Mewtwo was a trophy. A spirit is a collectible item used to represent a character through a PNG while a trophy is a collectible item used to represent a character through a 3D model. As you can see, completely different. It's not like Sakurai ever said spirits were the successors of trophies or anything, that'd just be absurd. Next you're gonna tell me that trophies were actually more work due to having to be 3D modeled and have translatable descriptions which actually made them less likely to get an upgrade.

 

[axel_]

Enjoy your E3 reveal while you can, Genobros, because after this Nintendo's probably not gonna bother with E3 anymore on the grounds of being absolutely terrible.

 

[Izanagi97]

Enjoy your E3 reveal while you can, Genobros, because after this Nintendo's probably not gonna bother with E3 anymore on the grounds of being absolutely terrible.

I honestly have no idea what I'm looking at here

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Geno's biggest obstacle at this point is still the fact NIntendo chose plant piranha over him to be the latest Mario rep, ignoring the difficulty of forcing expanding Mario contents at this point. It feels like Geno was a potential bonus choice if NIntendo wanted to make it happen without highlighting him as a main content,

Piranha Plant wasn't chosen over Geno as the Mario rep that's just fan assumption. Sakurai and co can add how many characters they want for a franchise in the roster. Fire Emblem got 3 newcomers in Smash 4 as well as Roy back so there is enough room for Daisy, Plant, Geno, and even Waluigi.

Honestly? Should have gone with Kamek then.

Kamek or Shy Guy would be better than Plant in my personal opinion. But I see why they chose Plant over other Mario enemies because while you can argue that Goomba and Koopa Troopa are more iconic, Plant is more associated with the warp pipes and the warp pipes I would say is more iconic than Goomba and Koopa Troopa. They're the imagery in every Mario game. What is one of the first things you think of or see in the SMB trilogy, SMW, SMRPG, SM64, SMS, SMG, SMG 2, NSMB games, SML games, SM3DW, SMO, and the Mario spin offs? Mario and a warp pipe.

 

[RuffyYoshi]

Hey Fatmanonice you mentioned how your contact said the final character of S2 was negotiated for, and how they're extremely confident in who it is. Would be okay to get a hint or two? I'm curious how much of an impact this pick would be.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Hey Fatmanonice you mentioned how your contact said the final character of S2 was negotiated for, and how they're extremely confident in who it is. Would be okay to get a hint or two? I'm curious how much of an impact this pick would be.

It seems that just like in the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, the contextually important parts of the dialogue are highlighted in a different color.

This must be the main story objective. It's very important that we—Oh hey, look! A side quest!

 

[Datboigeno]

Hey Fatmanonice you mentioned how your contact said the final character of S2 was negotiated for, and how they're extremely confident in who it is. Would be okay to get a hint or two? I'm curious how much of an impact this pick would be.

At a certain point people have to realize there's a reason why he didn't say who the character was or provide any hints. His contact likely asked him not to. I I know that Fatman has said he enjoys answering questions and whatnot but at the same time pestering him to give up hints about this might genuinely be putting people's financial stability and legal standing on the line if certain information gets out. I'm excited about the last character too but asking for hints for the actual identity feels like asking for trouble for not only Fatman but his contact and others as well. Especially if the character is a huge showstopping deal. And at the same time it's very obviously not Geno so that also doesn't have any bearing on the thread's subject matter anyway.

 

[super88cloud]

It´s been a while since I posted here. what the hell has happened? is Geno as a fighter happening, or is this cuphead mii costume spirits pointing that our blue doll boy is still gonna remain a mii gunner?

 

[Lord Woomy]

It´s been a while since I posted here. what the hell has happened? is Geno as a fighter happening, or is this cuphead mii costume spirits pointing that our blue doll boy is still gonna remain a mii gunner?

I'll give you a pass because you haven't been here in a while but the "Cuphead Mii Costume" thing has been talked to death and there really is no evidence for it. It's really a fate one could stick on to any character but for some reason Geno gets it worse because people wanna find an easy way to deconfirm him. Geno is less likely out of most of the prospective DLC to get stuck with the premium Mii treatment, Square isn't gonna allow the rights to a costume and a song and then sell it for 75 cents seeing as how little music their full characters get already.

 

[RuffyYoshi]

At a certain point people have to realize there's a reason why he didn't say who the character was or provide any hints. His contact likely asked him not to. I I know that Fatman has said he enjoys answering questions and whatnot but at the same time pestering him to give up hints about this might genuinely be putting people's financial stability and legal standing on the line if certain information gets out. I'm excited about the last character too but asking for hints for the actual identity feels like asking for trouble for not only Fatman but his contact and others as well. Especially if the character is a huge showstopping deal. And at the same time it's very obviously not Geno so that also doesn't have any bearing on the thread's subject matter anyway.

No that's fine, I'm just asking if we MAY get any slight hint unless it's dangerous. If it's indeed dangerous then I won't ask anymore.

 

[OffBi]

No that's fine, I'm just asking if we MAY get any slight hint unless it's dangerous. If it's indeed dangerous then I won't ask anymore.

Remember from which company was the easiest to get the character from in the first pass?
That's your answer.

 

[RuffyYoshi]

It seems that just like in the Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, the contextually important parts of the dialogue are highlighted in a different color.

This must be the main story objective. It's very important that we—Oh hey, look! A side quest!

GREAT DEKU TREE

Link...never forget what I taught you: pee is stored in the balls.
This knowledge is essential to save Hyrule...​

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hey Fatmanonice you mentioned how your contact said the final character of S2 was negotiated for, and how they're extremely confident in who it is. Would be okay to get a hint or two? I'm curious how much of an impact this pick would be.

It wasn't my contact, it was Mandycan's and basically asked me not to make it public. I try to do this ethically so here's what I try to avoid:

-Major spoilers. If it's something that would have a major impact, I keep my mouth shut. Again, the supposed big announcement of the next Direct is a prime example. I don't care about spoilers but I know a lot of people do so I try not to intentionally spoil things. Again, I'm not super concerned with "muh e-cred" which is why I don't blast everything that comes my way and why I'm okay with being wrong.

-Stuff other insiders haven't openly talked about. Part of why I started doing this is so I could back up other people and be like "yep, that's probably legit." I try not to be a guy that has "breaking news." Not really interested in "Fatman Exclusives" because, like I keep stressing, I prefer to collaborate with people than compete. Despite what people think, I'm not trying to be an e-celeb; I'm trying to have fun with this and contribute something to the community. Two of my talents are networking and overthinking things and, now that I actually have access to insider stuff, why not "give back" to the community with this? I don't want money. I don't want to sell T-shirts. I don't want tens of thousands of followers. I just want to share cool stuff that I'm allowed to with cool people.

-Claiming my speculation and theorycraft as fact. For example, Geno at E3 is a theory. Nobody has told me this. I've just been pushing puzzle pieces together and the picture it makes makes sense to me. Same thing with my character predictions. To be honest, if I were going off my contacts info, I couldn't specifically guess a specific character number. My theorycraft is patchwork and if they do wind up being true, goody for me, I Mystery Incorporated that **** and that's pretty cool. Like I said earlier, if I absolutely knew Geno was going to be at E3, I would keep my mouth shut but, again, it's theorycraft and honestly only a potential spoiler because I correctly put together public and private info. That doesn't make me special. That just further emphasizes that I overthink everything.

 

[Vector Victor]

Many think that a character reveal is coming before the next Famitsu issue as Sakurai stated in the last one that he will talk about the next 6 characters in the next one, and if they are all unknown, that might make a very short column unless at least one was going to be shown. Nintendo could just release the trailer without needing a Direct. Or maybe Sakurai really can talk alot about the characters without needing to reveal any of them. Of course, people will be analyzing every letter he speaks for any possible hint in that case.

I'm hoping Geno potentially comes soon just so it can all be settled finally.

 

[Deleted member]

Enjoy your E3 reveal while you can, Genobros, because after this Nintendo's probably not gonna bother with E3 anymore on the grounds of being absolutely terrible.

I don’t think Nintendo would stop doing the presentation type thing for their games as it seems to be a successful format. But, it does seem like a possibility of them doing their own thing like Sony. A return of Spaceworld perhaps?

 

[CannonStreak]

I don’t think Nintendo would stop doing the presentation type thing for their games as it seems to be a successful format. But, it does seem like a possibility of them doing their own thing like Sony. A return of Spaceworld perhaps?

Uh, what was Spaceworld again? I heard about it, but I was never sure just what it was.

 

[Deleted member]

Uh, what was Spaceworld again? I heard about it, but I was never sure just what it was.

It was like a trade event but specifically for Nintendo. They stopped it in the early 2000’s when E3 became more popular. The only problem with Space World was that it was only held specifically in Japan and it wasn’t annual so Nintendo would just announce it on the fly. Kind of like their Directs, just minus the Twitter.

 

[Deleted member]

Geez that’s scary. I love E3 being a wrestling fan aside from Wrestlemania itself it’s the other event I look forward too.

Especially when Nintendo is there. I would hope they’d still be there even if they aren’t would still check it out.

But darn shame E3 is going through such a change.

Would still hope Nintendo does something in June I would assume they would.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

What other candidates have the same level of evidence? Do you see other songs being copyright taken down relating to other characters? Do you see content of them missing from this game? Do you see anything pointing to them?

- Sora has *NOTHING* going for him but being popular. He also has Disney as a massive roadblock. If only 1 SE rep, he also has Geno in his way, though I doubt that's much of a problem as SE could easily have 2+ if they wanted.
- Crash was heard and his recent reboots were put on Switch. Crash has also been massively requested, but outside of insiders hearing about him, there's no actual evidence in his favor. While I do think his chances are very high, he doesn't have any evidence.
- Dante is basically Sora too. His chances spiked because of the DMC twitter's dates. Still no evidence.
- Master Chief is purely because of Microsoft and Nintendo being cool. He's probably in, but again, no evidence outside of insiders hearing things.
- Steve ^. Besides Verge saying "Minecraft content" since the game has been out, literally nothing else going for him. Also has to get by Master Chief, who I personally think will take the second Microsoft spot over him.
- Lloyd is requested too, but has little going for him as well outside of the trademark and that new icon.
- Hayabusa isn't nearly as requested, but that one insider kept saying he was #5 for sure. No evidence.
- Arle actually does have some evidence, but in the form of her NSO game getting in over Kirby's Avalanche. Seems weird considering that's been there since E3(?) and she's still not in though.
- (edit) 2B I haven't been following at all, but there's no evidence there at all AFAIK. She even has a strike against them with Mai being unable to show up with Terry's stage.

^ these are the front-runners according to fans btw, none of which (to my knowledge) have any major evidence going for them outside of insiders saying things. To say any of these characters have a higher chance over one with, again, legitimate evidence, is nuts. Geno's chances are through the roof right now. Is he guaranteed? Of course not, I'd never say that until he gets his splash screen, but again, his chances are higher than everyone else here based purely on evidence and not hearsay.

Tbf I don't see Geno's chances or evidence as amounting to much more than any other character. I think the music takedowns have nothing to do with Geno in Smash. Geno is in a bad spot of having content in base game. You can scream fan rule all you want and the FE scenario is odd since Three Houses is being considered a separate entity from FE franchise, but the fact remains that we have no precedent for DLC being present in the game in any form and until that precedent gets set all "evidence" for Geno is difficult to sell because of that. Our evidence is that his Mii costume was missing for the entire first FP which is certainly good news rn but other costumes were missing until they weren't and there only appears to be some pattern to their release. The best potential actual evidence for Geno is still that spirits can be renamed and that he is being heard in insider circles which is pretty much the same as other names except that those other names have no representation in the game whatsoever. In my eyes that makes Geno on an equal standing in terms of likeliness but I get where you're coming from. I just don't want to ignore things that could be important details just because people like to scream "fan rules" and I don't want to overstate the importance of minor details that very well could mean nothing. "Evidence" is a term used too loosely here imo but I certainly could be wrong and have been wrong about other things.

In any case, Geno's chances being just as good as any other character is not a bad thing because at least he has a chance. And using precedents for evidence we could then discern that technically Geno could be more likely than say a character like Crash because Square has played ball with two of their other characters while Activision hasn't played ball with any. By that logic tho you could also infer that Nintendo may pursue a rep from a company that they haven't worked with yet in DLC so you could also make the argument that Crash is just as likely. These kind of arguments go back and forth forever. Much of the "evidence" we use is strictly subjective and thats the problem. We have very little objective evidence to use for any character.

Beyond that, not having a precedent for something does not prevent it from being a possibility at all but I personally will not believe in promotions until I see them. I love Geno and I want him in Smash Ultimate because that would make the game the ultimate Smash game for me personally. But I think people are quick to forget that many other people (possibly Sakurai (and obviously Nintendo) included) have other priorities when it comes to who would make this game the ultimate Smash game. People are also quick to forget that the "never evers" are a fan rule of sorts. The never evers don't really exist so much as we make them exist and will always change depending on a wide variety of factors. To say that Geno getting in would fulfil some kind of triad of never evers is simply not the case. Geno would however, fulfil a long standing and beloved fan request and as we've seen with Banjo, that alone is enough to get a character in Smash DLC. There is no reason to despair for Geno's chances, I just don't think people are using the term "evidence" correctly and are getting carried away. No problem with being optimistic and having faith because I do too but let's not call things evidence that aren't evidence are just strange coincidences that if connected could be related to the reason we're all here.

I'll leave with this positive thought as I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression that I'm trying to quell hopes or tell people to hype responsibly. No one believed Byleth was coming yet we were perplexed by Three Houses not getting content for so long. Not getting content hmmm...almost like not getting a Mii costume for a long time when it'd make more sense to include it much earlier (such as in base game not even with Dragon Quest but BEFORE that). It's not evidence and it could still lead to a long delayed Mii costume (which would be harsh, as we'd feel beyond Isaac and Waluigi fans dismay) but it's interesting. Square has played ball with 2 other characters! Both being extremely difficult to get but both companies played ball and bridges are being rebuilt between the companies! Spirits can and have be renamed making Geno's spirit less of an issue than before! Sakurai believes that Geno would be a great fit for Smash and has tried to get him in before! Geno is long time big fan request and we do have a precedent for characters like that getting in. Geno has many things going for him that make it appropriate to have faith in his arrival despite the general lack of objective evidence for any character.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I know this is an old post, but I believe that honor actually went to Mewtwo in the last game. The argument was dead before Ultimate was even a thing. People just say it's still valid because they can't think of any other counter arguments.

This is actually a great point. Pretty sure this is one of those arguments that used to be in Geno fans' toolkits but it was handwaved so much that people stopped using it.

"Geno can't be promoted in the same game."

"Mewtwo and Lucas were promoted in the same game 5 years ago."

"But they were veterans so that doesn't count."

"Yes it does... Mewtwo's assets were so old that they had to be remade from the ground up, more or less making his and Roy's development akin to making brand new characters."

"Still doesn't count..."

 

[AdamBel731]

SchAlternate updated their awesome Ultimate newcomer art!

https://twitter.com/SchAlternate/status/1228583467597864961?s=19

I posted the art when I found it the first time, so I figured I'd post the updated one and continue to do so! The art looks great so why not? After all, when Geno gets added I'm sure you all will be even more interested!

 

[MattX20]

SchAlternate updated their awesome Ultimate newcomer art!


I posted the art when I found it the first time, so I figured I'd post the updated one and continue to do so! The art looks great so why not? After all, when Geno gets added I'm sure you all will be even more interested!

Very nice. Geno and whoever else the remaining 5 are for this season are going to look great on it

 

[Lyncario]

This is actually a great point. Pretty sure this is one of those arguments that used to be in Geno fans' toolkits but it was handwaved so much that people stopped using it.

"Geno can't be promoted in the same game."

"Mewtwo and Lucas were promoted in the same game 5 years ago."

"But they were veterans so that doesn't count."

"Yes it does... Mewtwo's assets were so old that they had to be remade from the ground up, more or less making his and Roy's development akin to making brand new characters."

"Still doesn't count..."

View attachment 262394

Playing devil advocate here, but many assets from Brawl were found in Sm4sh, notably assets for Snake, who as we all know was absent, while assets for Mewtwo and Roy were found in Brawl's files, they even had victory theme programmed, so some of those assets could have been used to remake them more easily in 4.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Playing devil advocate here, but many assets from Brawl were found in Sm4sh, notably assets for Snake, who as we all know was absent, while assets for Mewtwo and Roy were found in Brawl's files, they even had victory theme programmed, so some of those assets could have been used to remake them more easily in 4.

imo the assets aren’t really what matter much here, really just that they didn’t seem to plan the characters at all until they did. Which still works in Geno’s favor, or it should but people handwave it away by pretending Spirits aren’t the successor of trophies (though Sakurai may have said they are in a way), just with a gameplay purpose and “lore” that gets broken quickly. Should still work against the argument that Sakurai and Nintendo wouldn’t think about him for Vol. 2, but nope, still gets handwaved :/

Seriously, though, people could’ve said “Geno is already represented as a spirit, there’s no way he’ll be considered as a fighter later!” for Lucas in Smash 4, and Mewtwo as well assuming trophies took more work than spirits (I think Sakurai pretty much said they did). I guess Roy wasn’t going to come back either since he wasn’t in basegame.

 

[Polarthief]

Tbf I don't see Geno's chances or evidence as amounting to much more than any other character.

Alright, let's dive in.

I think the music takedowns have nothing to do with Geno in Smash.

So what are they for then? Nintendo's been way more lax with that kind of stuff. Why only take down those two specific songs and not the entire soundtrack?

Geno is in a bad spot of having content in base game.

He has a Sm4sh costume and an Ultimate spirit, as well as being a battle in World of Light. That's significantly better than Sora, MC, Lloyd, Dante, Crash, etc. This is an absolutely moot point.

You can scream fan rule all you want, but the fact remains that we have no precedent for DLC being present in the game in any form and until that precedent gets set all "evidence" for Geno is difficult to sell because of that.

I will scream fan rules when people keeping saying "SPIRITS DECONFIRM" and "X Y Z DECONFIRMS" when there's absolutely no reason for them to. We also now have hard proof that spirits can be renamed and have their battles modified (which isn't "evidence", but it's still a boon to Geno), and even in the past, Trophies didn't deconfirm (Lucas being DLC in Sm4sh).

Our evidence is that his Mii costume was missing for the entire first FP which is certainly good news rn but other costumes were missing until they weren't and there only appears to be some pattern to their release.

If they were going to just bring back his original costume though, why delay it? That makes no sense. Stick it in the Hero Mii Costume wave.
Also if you're saying Premium costume, I did say that had a chance of happening, but it's almost guaranteed to be that or, more likely, he will be playable. Nintendo would be absolutely dumb as hell to bring back the original costume after waiting this long (though TBH they'd also be dumb to make another costume for him).

In my eyes that makes Geno on an equal standing in terms of likeliness but I get where you're coming from. I just don't want to ignore things that could be important details just because people like to scream "fan rules" and I don't want to overstate the importance of minor details that very well could mean nothing. "Evidence" is a term used too loosely here imo but I certainly could be wrong and have been wrong about other things.

But you are ignoring evidence and just waving them off as coincidences. You also said "I think the music takedowns have nothing to do with Geno in Smash", and said nothing else about them. You gave a moot point about Geno having little content in base game, yet it's still LOADS more than any of the other characters I named who have literally zilch in Ultimate (though some like Lloyd did have costumes and content in Sm4sh). I do not get your point at all here.

Much of the "evidence" we use is strictly subjective and thats the problem. We have very little objective evidence to use for any character.

Because you just waved it all off. Sakurai literally saying he likes Geno, he's perfect for Smash, and he even wanted him in. I'm willing to bet he pushed for Sm4sh as well but in the end he became a Mii costume. If all we're getting is his returning Mii costume, again, where is it? There's absolutely no reason to prolong it like this. Sakurai (and therefore, Nintendo) are well aware of the fan demand, and this is potentially the last Smash Bros game where they're trying to make as many people as possible happy. Yes, that point is subjective, but mixed with other evidence, it really starts to make sense. Just one last reminder that all other characters have *NOTHING* going for them, and Geno has all this stuff you're choosing to ignore.

I'll obviously state that no evidence will ever be 100% because nothing ever is until we see that splash screen, but if you wave off a bunch of stuff that adds up, then it seems like no evidence will matter to you, and at this point, we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Regarding the music takedowns, I’m not sure about them, either. Nintendo was striking videos with their music on other channels, such as GiIvaSunner, and the SMRPG music was from BrawlBRSTMs and they were bothering him to take down their music, which he was trying to comply with by taking down entire playlists of videos, then they just nuked his channel completely before he could finish.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Regarding the music takedowns, I’m not sure about them, either. Nintendo was striking videos with their music on other channels, such as GiIvaSunner, and the SMRPG music was from BrawlBRSTMs and they were bothering him to take down their music, which he was trying to comply with by taking down entire playlists of videos, then they just nuked his channel completely before he could finish.

It has been heavily suggested though that Nintendo has done the same for other newcomers. A Banjo remix and Megalovania were both taken down before either Banjo or the Sans Mii costume had been revealed. Not to mention, both Beware the Forest's Mushrooms and Fight Against an Armored Boss are heavily associated with Geno and matches with each squarachter getting 2 songs in Smash. While there's still a chance it was Nintendo's overzealous bot, it definitely does look to be a bit more than that.

 

[Lyncario]

It has been heavily suggested thought that Nintendo has done the same for other newcomers. A Banjo remix and Megalovania were both taken down before either Banjo or the Sans Mii costume had been revealed. Not to mention, both Beware the Forest's Mushrooms and Fight Against an Armored Boss are heavily associated with Geno and matches with each squarachter getting 2 songs in Smash. While there's still a chance it was Nintendo's overzealous bot, it definitely does look to be a bit more than that.

Wasn't a GTA track (in a Smashified form) also taken down around that time?

 

[Polarthief]

It has been heavily suggested thought that Nintendo has done the same for other newcomers. A Banjo remix and Megalovania were both taken down before either Banjo or the Sans Mii costume had been revealed. Not to mention, both Beware the Forest's Mushrooms and Fight Against an Armored Boss are heavily associated with Geno and matches with each squarachter getting 2 songs in Smash. While there's still a chance it was Nintendo's overzealous bot, it definitely does look to be a bit more than that.

This. It's also EXTREMELY coincidental it's just two songs (All other SE characters have 2 songs each), and definitely *THE* two songs I would put in as a dev if I could only pick two songs from the soundtrack to associate with Geno. You could argue Star Hill, the song that plays when Geno possesses the doll, or the second version of that after you beat Smithy, but those don't make for good Smash fighting songs. Imagine you *cannot* remix the songs at all, which two do you pick? You could argue BTFM isn't great for Smash fighting either, but it's iconic and tied to Geno. FAAAB (great abbreviation btw) is a good song for Smash and is tied to Geno as well, via Smithy, the one who messed everything up in the first place.

ALONE, the songs don't mean much, but when mixed with the other evidence, that's when things are getting pretty suspicious.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Wasn't a GTA track (in a Smashified form) also taken down around that time?

Again it isn't an ironclad rule that all take downs = character/some kinda content in Smash but it's a lot of the circumstances surrounding this one that makes me think it means something. It could be likely in that one that Nintendo saw "Smash" in the title and took it down. Now, you may ask, couldn't that mean the bot saw "Mario" in the title of those 2 songs and took those videos down? Technically yes, but why wouldn't it just take down the rest of the soundtrack instead of those 2 songs specifically?

This. It's also EXTREMELY coincidental it's just two songs (All other SE characters have 2 songs each), and definitely *THE* two songs I would put in as a dev if I could only pick two songs from the soundtrack to associate with Geno. You could argue Star Hill, the song that plays when Geno possesses the doll, or the second version of that after you beat Smithy, but those don't make for good Smash fighting songs. Imagine you *cannot* remix the songs at all, which two do you pick? You could argue BTFM isn't great for Smash fighting either, but it's iconic and tied to Geno. FAAAB (great abbreviation btw) is a good song for Smash and is tied to Geno as well, via Smithy, the one who messed everything up in the first place.

ALONE, the songs don't mean much, but when mixed with the other evidence, that's when things are getting pretty suspicious.

Yeah, this pretty much lmao. Other songs may have a bit more association with the character but definitely would not be the 2 someone would choose for Smash. Like hell they would ever include Geno in Smash and not include BTFM. It'd be like including Banjo without including Spiral Mountain, just absurd. And FAAAB is probably the best song to include for Smash that still has a lot of association with Geno, while it's not necessarily an essential like BTFM, it's still does probably make the most sense to choose among 2 songs.

 

[SeasideKingDumb]

Hey all so I'm a lurker of this thread. I've never played Mario RPG nor do I have any childhood connection with wanting Geno in Smash, but you guys' passion and drive for this character is so inspiring that I really want him in, too. I also think the unique possibilities for his gameplay mechanics (the star charging system) would be very cool to be implemented into Smash.

To all the people who say this guy is impossible, King K. Rool, whose last semi-canonical appearance was in a game called MARIO SUPER SLUGGERS from over 10 years ago was unveiled to hype reactions and millions of people watching his character trailer. The character is an obese, humanoid crocodile who appeared in like 4 mainline games in the 1990s and was created by a studio no longer affiliated with Nintendo. And guess what. He made it in.

Whatever happens, even though I think Nintendo takes this game seriously, I don't think they care enough about super concrete patterns or relevancy when they make their decisions. Geno has a cool gameplay concept and a legacy with the Smash fanbase and I think that should be enough. So honestly until they say there's no more DLC and Geno isn't in the game, don't give up hope y'all.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I guess there was also that BtFM Smash remix that was taken down alongside the Banjo-Kazooie Final Battle one, striked before the whole channel they were on was nuked for uploading leaked music (the Megalovania fan remix was in the same boat, but was on a different channel I think), but that was late 2018 before the game released so I’m not sure it matters anymore unless Geno was planned to be added at some point early on all along, which could be the case tbh.

Not sure if the two songs per game is really a thing, either. The rights to Final Fantasy’s music have to be obtained from their composer, who makes them really expensive, and same for the DQ composer though I guess the cost of the midis isn’t as bad for him. Yoko Shimomura, on the other hand, already works on Smash remixes as well as the M&L series, and SMRPG music likely wouldn’t be that difficult to include even if Square themselves has to be talked to regarding music.

To be honest, though, I don’t know/haven’t seen the costs for the FF and DQ music myself; I just based this on what others have said, and the DQ composer especially sounds hard to work with. People have said SE outsources for music and stuff a lot, usually putting the rights in a legal or expensive mess.

 

[Lord Woomy]

I guess there was also that BtFM Smash remix that was taken down alongside the Banjo-Kazooie Final Battle one, striked before the whole channel they were on was nuked for uploading leaked music (the Megalovania fan remix was in the same boat, but was on a different channel I think), but that was late 2018 before the game released so I’m not sure it matters anymore unless Geno was planned to be added at some point early on all along, which could be the case tbh.

The remixes we're talking about were taken down sometime between May and July of 2019. Maybe there was another instance, but the ones from July are the ones people usually talk about.

Hey all so I'm a lurker of this thread. I've never played Mario RPG nor do I have any childhood connection with wanting Geno in Smash, but you guys' passion and drive for this character is so inspiring that I really want him in, too. I also think the unique possibilities for his gameplay mechanics (the star charging system) would be very cool to be implemented into Smash.

To all the people who say this guy is impossible, King K. Rool, whose last semi-canonical appearance was in a game called MARIO SUPER SLUGGERS from over 10 years ago was unveiled to hype reactions and millions of people watching his character trailer. The character is an obese, humanoid crocodile who appeared in like 4 mainline games in the 1990s and was created by a studio no longer affiliated with Nintendo. And guess what. He made it in.

Whatever happens, even though I think Nintendo takes this game seriously, I don't think they care enough about super concrete patterns or relevancy when they make their decisions. Geno has a cool gameplay concept and a legacy with the Smash fanbase and I think that should be enough. So honestly until they say there's no more DLC and Geno isn't in the game, don't give up hope y'all.

The support is much appreciated, thanks for stopping by!