Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[TooManyToastahs]

It's kind of ironic that we're now back to where we were after the 2018 November Direct.

>Nintendo adds Plant.

"Nintendo hates the fanbase."

>Sakurai says Nintendo picked DLC.

"They're all going to be shill picks!"

>Nintendo adds Joker, Hero, Banjo, and Terry.

"These are really good picks!"

>Fanbase gets comically high expectations for 5. Gets BTFO large enough that Nostradamus probably predicted it.

"Nintendo hates the fanbase."

>Sakurai says Nintendo picked DLC, again.

"Everyone in Season 2 is going to be a shill pick!"

Hey, good news is, if Geno gets in early I won’t even have to worry about expectations! After Geno gets added, they could put in a billion Fire Emblem characters and I would just nod my head and go back to playing as Geno.

sakurai please make this dream happen

 

[AugustusB]

It's kind of ironic that we're now back to where we were after the 2018 November Direct.

>Nintendo adds Plant.

"Nintendo hates the fanbase."

>Sakurai says Nintendo picked DLC.

"They're all going to be shill picks!"

>Nintendo adds Joker, Hero, Banjo, and Terry.

"These are really good picks!"

>Fanbase gets comically high expectations for 5. Gets BTFO large enough that Nostradamus probably predicted it.

"Nintendo hates the fanbase."

>Sakurai says Nintendo picked DLC, again.

"Everyone in Season 2 is going to be a shill pick!"

And thus the cycle continues anew!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

And thus the cycle continues anew!

Yoda: The force is as balance as it should be yes? Hmm.

 

[Louie G.]

Sakurai is probably the one who added Plant though, several signs point to Plant having been at least considered for base game before being pushed back for DLC release.

 

[Vector Victor]

Sakurai is probably the one who added Plant though, several signs point to Plant having been at least considered for base game before being pushed back for DLC release.

-Free DLC for limited time.
-Only DLC with a Palutena Guidance
-Announced before game comes out
-One of the first characters to have their amiibo released
-Currently the only DLC to have its amiibo released

Yea, all signs point to Plant being base game. The question is, why was he pushed to DLC?

 

[Spatulo]

And thus the cycle continues anew!

A tale of Too Many Swords and Poor Souls, eternally retold

 

[Fatmanonice]

Sakurai is probably the one who added Plant though, several signs point to Plant having been at least considered for base game before being pushed back for DLC release.

This is probably right. There's no mistaking that Plant was a Sakurai pick. My point is that people forget that both Nintendo and Sakurai are pretty good at picking characters but the fanbase usually cries murder when a character is added that's not super popular with the fanbase. Again, Plant proceeded literally every veteran coming back, 4 characters Sakurai personally rejected in the past, Inkling, and K. Rool. I'm pretty optimistic about Season 2. Most of the Season 1 picks were unexpected but really good at the same time and I think people often underrated Sakurai and Nintendo's optics on this sort of thing.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

Rex’s situation is actually really simple. Sakurai’s comments were about the base game not the DLC. If Xenoblade 2 had started development earlier Rex would’ve been in the base game but it didn’t so he wasn’t. That’s it, no conspiracy.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, but I also see Nintendo telling Sakurai to Delay rex for Fighters pass cause they'd rather promote 3 houses. No conspiracy, but Nintendo has always aggressively pushed FE since awakening (not Mario/Zelda/Splatoon much, but still), smash shenanigans aside.

This is probably right. There's no mistaking that Plant was a Sakurai pick. My point is that people forget that both Nintendo and Sakurai are pretty good at picking characters but the fanbase usually cries murder when a character is added that's not super popular with the fanbase. Again, Plant proceeded literally every veteran coming back, 4 characters Sakurai personally rejected in the past, Inkling, and K. Rool. I'm pretty optimistic about Season 2. Most of the Season 1 picks were unexpected but really good at the same time and I think people often underrated Sakurai and Nintendo's optics on this sort of thing.

Not to mention just looking at the patterns there has always been picks Sakurai picked purely because he wanted them for whatever reason (vs Ninty/the fans asking) I mean look at among others.

-Free DLC for limited time.
Yea, all signs point to Plant being base game. The question is, why was he pushed to DLC?

My money is that Incerroar was a placeholder pokemon slot and plant had to take a backseat to EVERYONE is here, Inkling, Ridley, K.Rool, and the pokemon newcomer. Imagine how much more hated PP would be if the fans found out Ridley came after him?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

-Free DLC for limited time.
-Only DLC with a Palutena Guidance
-Announced before game comes out
-One of the first characters to have their amiibo released
-Currently the only DLC to have its amiibo released

Yea, all signs point to Plant being base game. The question is, why was he pushed to DLC?

Two words: Time constraints. Nintendo obliviously wanted the game out by the holidays and Plant just couldn't make the cut in time before the game's release so they pushed him towards the DLC lineup.

 

[Firox]

A tale of Too Many Swords and Poor Souls, eternally retold

Dude, I love Smash Caliber V!

 

[Izanagi97]

This is actually quite a bombshell and the implications are enormous. First I'll go through the stuff that Sakurai outright says and then what's heavily implied.

Sakurai basically said it himself:

-Byleth was a hard corporate pick. I hate the term but, yes, the man himself says Byleth was a "shill pick."

-Nintendo has to approve everyone but they value Sakurai's opinion to an extent.

-Sakurai had someone else in mind for DLC but Nintendo didn't allow it.

-Sakurai worked with the character anyways while Three Houses was in development (technically from 2015 to 2019).

-Sakurai agrees with the fans, there's too many Fire Emblem characters but his hands are tied.

-Sakurai more or less admits he's practically required to cave to one hard Nintendo pick each DLC season if he wants any real chance of working with characters he wants to work with.

Now for the fun part, the hard implications of this interview:

-The character that Nintendo rejected is more than likely in Season 2. Sakurai says this game is a tribute to Iwata. Under those conditions, Nintendo's likely not to refuse.

-Sakurai said they already worked with the character. Sakurai hasn't worked on anything but Smash since 2011. He's worked on Ultimate since 2015. This hard implies that the mystery character was in Smash Ultimate's base, possibly Smash 4 DLC too.

-Under the conditions of the previous point, hard implies that not only will this character be a promotion of some kind but that the "promotions can't happen" argument just got severely crippled.

-With Nintendo outright turning down the character for the first wave of DLC, heavily implies that the character is third party because the base roster had 8 new first party characters and Byleth was the only full first party DLC pack.

-Pretty much confirms our theory that one of the six will be a hard Nintendo pick that exclusively benefits Nintendo. Nintendo picked a shill for Smash 4 DLC and they did it for the Fighter's Pass. Sakurai more or less admits he doesn't have a choice and will have to go with them whether he's super on board with them or not.

-Pretty much confirms my theory the other day, Nintendo considers fan picks but also how it benefits them. Under these conditions, Nintendo approving Altus, Square Enix, Microsoft, and SNK is not at all unusual. Atlus and Square go back to the NES, SNK has been a huge partner since the Wii, and Microsoft is easily the biggest company Nintendo has teamed up with in recent years.

-Corporate Nintendo still makes the final decision. Like my theory and information suggests, this is a giant red flag for indies, most Western developers, and franchises largely associated with Sony. Needless to say, this is kind of a bullet in the head to a potential Sony rep. At the end of the day, Smash is quite literally about Nintendo.

-The Nintendo "shill pick" for Season 2 was likely already decided by E3 last year. If Byleth is any indication, it's likely for a game already announced or even out. Friendly reminder that Nintendo does not own the Pokemon Company.

-Basically repeating my earlier post, heavily implies that Sakurai's rejected character will be one of the first characters of Season 2 if not the first.

Ladies and gentlemen, today is a good day.

Welp, that's one post for me to keep in mind

 

[PatPrime]

I seriously hope the second pass is not the like first one in that I would like more than one longtime Smash fan request. I've stated why the first pass was generally a disappointment for me aside from Banjo. For instance, Geno could be the one but I would want Rayman, Isaac, and/or Crash alongside him. At the very least, I hope there is more genre and character style variety (lord knows my distaste for most JRPGs really showed with the first pass).

 

[T2by4]

This is actually quite a bombshell and the implications are enormous. First I'll go through the stuff that Sakurai outright says and then what's heavily implied.

Sakurai basically said it himself:

-Byleth was a hard corporate pick. I hate the term but, yes, the man himself says Byleth was a "shill pick."

-Nintendo has to approve everyone but they value Sakurai's opinion to an extent.

-Sakurai had someone else in mind for DLC but Nintendo didn't allow it.

-Sakurai worked with the character anyways while Three Houses was in development (technically from 2015 to 2019).

-Sakurai agrees with the fans, there's too many Fire Emblem characters but his hands are tied.

-Sakurai more or less admits he's practically required to cave to one hard Nintendo pick each DLC season if he wants any real chance of working with characters he wants to work with.

Now for the fun part, the hard implications of this interview:

-The character that Nintendo rejected is more than likely in Season 2. Sakurai says this game is a tribute to Iwata. Under those conditions, Nintendo's likely not to refuse.

-Sakurai said they already worked with the character. Sakurai hasn't worked on anything but Smash since 2011. He's worked on Ultimate since 2015. This hard implies that the mystery character was in Smash Ultimate's base, possibly Smash 4 DLC too.

-Under the conditions of the previous point, hard implies that not only will this character be a promotion of some kind but that the "promotions can't happen" argument just got severely crippled.

-With Nintendo outright turning down the character for the first wave of DLC, heavily implies that the character is third party because the base roster had 8 new first party characters and Byleth was the only full first party DLC pack.

-Pretty much confirms our theory that one of the six will be a hard Nintendo pick that exclusively benefits Nintendo. Nintendo picked a shill for Smash 4 DLC and they did it for the Fighter's Pass. Sakurai more or less admits he doesn't have a choice and will have to go with them whether he's super on board with them or not.

-Pretty much confirms my theory the other day, Nintendo considers fan picks but also how it benefits them. Under these conditions, Nintendo approving Altus, Square Enix, Microsoft, and SNK is not at all unusual. Atlus and Square go back to the NES, SNK has been a huge partner since the Wii, and Microsoft is easily the biggest company Nintendo has teamed up with in recent years.

-Corporate Nintendo still makes the final decision. Like my theory and information suggests, this is a giant red flag for indies, most Western developers, and franchises largely associated with Sony. Needless to say, this is kind of a bullet in the head to a potential Sony rep. At the end of the day, Smash is quite literally about Nintendo.

-The Nintendo "shill pick" for Season 2 was likely already decided by E3 last year. If Byleth is any indication, it's likely for a game already announced or even out. Friendly reminder that Nintendo does not own the Pokemon Company.

-Basically repeating my earlier post, heavily implies that Sakurai's rejected character will be one of the first characters of Season 2 if not the first.

Ladies and gentlemen, today is a good day.

Where did you get out of that interview that sakurai is hard implying that it will be a promotion character? I don't see it anywhere. I hope you're right since Geno is the biggest one still missing from the mii costumes which is HUGE in our favor since he is a massive fan favorite that sakurai has acknowledged. But I don't see anywhere where he implies it a promotion for a character.

What scares me is that I dont know if nintendo knows about geno's demand like sakurai does. I really hope they do though since once again they're the ones picking the dlc.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I seriously hope the second pass is not the like first one in that I would like more than one longtime Smash fan request. I've stated why the first pass was generally a disappointment for me aside from Banjo. For instance, Geno could be the one but I would want Rayman, Isaac, and/or Crash alongside him. At the very least, I hope there is more genre and character style variety (lord knows my distaste for most JRPGs really showed with the first pass).

I think regarding Sakurai words with the last presentation in where he said it will be hard to get anymore requests fulfilled and such makes me believe Season Pass 2 will be the last bunch of the DLC so everything is pretty much written in stone at this point.

Where did you get out of that interview that sakurai is hard implying that it will be a promotion character? I don't see it anywhere. I hope you're right since Geno is the biggest one still missing from the mii costumes which is HUGE in our favor since he is a massive fan favorite that sakurai has acknowledged. But I don't see anywhere where he implies it a promotion for a character.

What scares me is that I dont know if nintendo knows about geno's demand like sakurai does. I really hope they do though since once again they're the ones picking the dlc.

If Walmart Canada knows about Geno's huge fan demand, you bet your *** Nintendo knows about it too.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Where did you get out of that interview that sakurai is hard implying that it will be a promotion character? I don't see it anywhere. I hope you're right since Geno is the biggest one still missing from the mii costumes which is HUGE in our favor since he is a massive fan favorite that sakurai has acknowledged. But I don't see anywhere where he implies it a promotion for a character.

He doesn't outright say its a promotion, just that it's a character he's worked with before and has since Three Houses started development. Three Houses technically started in 2015, was shelved for awhile, and then picked up development again in about 2017. Sakurai hasn't worked on any major projects outside Smash since late 2011 ergo it's highly probable that it's a character in Smash but not yet playable.

 

[pinshadow]

He doesn't outright say its a promotion, just that it's a character he's worked with before and has since Three Houses started development. Three Houses technically started in 2015, was shelved for awhile, and then picked up development again in about 2017. Sakurai hasn't worked on any major projects outside Smash since late 2011 ergo it's highly probable that it's a character in Smash but not yet playable.

Im pretty sure hes refering to Byleth dude, hes talking about how he had to work on Byleth while Three Houses was still being developed. I don't think hes saying that Nintendo outright rejected a pitch from him.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Nintendo just kind of decided to casually drop this out of nowhere:

https://gonintendo.com/stories/3542...b2TCK6nWyrromw0oDOBcLN-O7u1NbmSRyQYXKuCK35VZI

Makes me wonder if this is more evidence for the General Direct being delayed.

 

[T2by4]

He doesn't outright say its a promotion, just that it's a character he's worked with before and has since Three Houses started development. Three Houses technically started in 2015, was shelved for awhile, and then picked up development again in about 2017. Sakurai hasn't worked on any major projects outside Smash since late 2011 ergo it's highly probable that it's a character in Smash but not yet playable.

Gotcha.

Also does anyone know when Operstion Starfall received that letter back from NoA regarding the Geno book? I feel like that may play a MAJOR factor to our chances. Was it before November?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

He doesn't outright say its a promotion, just that it's a character he's worked with before and has since Three Houses started development. Three Houses technically started in 2015, was shelved for awhile, and then picked up development again in about 2017. Sakurai hasn't worked on any major projects outside Smash since late 2011 ergo it's highly probable that it's a character in Smash but not yet playable.

Imagine if they already got Geno up and running and he's ready to go at anytime, but they are just keeping him in the fridge until some event like E3 or the last Smash Direct for the game lol! Damnit Nintendo why?! Lol!

 

[pinshadow]

Seriously guys, heres the full interview

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr4sfq

Nothing here implies that Sakurai had a character in mind Nintendo didn't allow, just that they made the decision on who was getting in.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Im pretty sure hes refering to Byleth dude, hes talking about how he had to work on Byleth while Three Houses was still being developed. I don't think hes saying that Nintendo outright rejected a pitch from him.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1224953803335553024?s=20

It says in the headline that they didn't go with a character preference of Sakurai's. In the following replies, Push Dustin says that "character" meant a character in general and not specifically a Three Houses or even Fire Emblem character.

 

[OffBi]

Seriously guys, heres the full interview

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr4sfq

Nothing here implies that Sakurai had a character in mind Nintendo didn't allow, just that they made the decision on who was getting in.

"And at the same time, I announced that we are creating 6th to 11th DLC fighters. [I’ll write] about these in the next column. See you again in the next two weeks!!"
Wait a minute, that means that we are indeed getting a character in a nintendo direct!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

"And at the same time, I announced that we are creating 6th to 11th DLC fighters. [I’ll write] about these in the next column. See you again in the next two weeks!!"
Wait a minute, that means that we are indeed getting a character in a nintendo direct!

That or Sakurai just be trolling.

 

[pinshadow]

https://mobile.twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1224953803335553024?s=20

It says in the headline that they didn't go with a character preference of Sakurai's. In the following replies, Push Dustin says that "character" meant a character in general and not specifically a Three Houses or even Fire Emblem character.

"Character selection" in general, and he claims its a rushed translation anyway. Read the full translation I posted, he's just saying that Nintendo put in characters they wanted over his own favorites. So similar implications, but nothing like you're saying about one specific character that he wanted not getting in.

 

[Oshawott777]

"And at the same time, I announced that we are creating 6th to 11th DLC fighters. [I’ll write] about these in the next column. See you again in the next two weeks!!"
Wait a minute, that means that we are indeed getting a character in a nintendo direct!

Wait, doesn’t Sakurai do that magazine column every two weeks? Isn’t that what he’s referring to?

 

[JarBear]

"And at the same time, I announced that we are creating 6th to 11th DLC fighters. [I’ll write] about these in the next column. See you again in the next two weeks!!"
Wait a minute, that means that we are indeed getting a character in a nintendo direct!

I saw this part too. If indeed the 2/20/2020 Direct is coming, that timing would line up ... kind of?

 

[pinshadow]

I think its implying a reveal next week which lines up with all the direct talks. I don't see him needing an entire column to discuss Pass 2, what is there to say that couldn't just be thrown in as one paragraph with Byleth and hasn't been said already?

 

[RetroBro]

A question really: Does anyone really know what's going on with Geno's copyrights? It's clear they got the rights at some point for Geno for smash 4's mii costume. What on earth would stop them from negotiating or w/e?

 

[T2by4]

A question really: Does anyone really know what's going on with Geno's copyrights? It's clear they got the rights at some point for Geno for smash 4's mii costume. What on earth would stop them from negotiating or w/e?

Square owns him. It all comes down to if they see Geno worthy or not. He may not get in for a host of reasons, one may be because they don't plan on using him in the future. However, they could see his potential with all the fan demand and may just allow nintendo to use him. Don't know why they wouldn't, it wouldn't really cost them anything since they don't ever use him for anything and yet the demand is still there.

 

[Heoj]

A question really: Does anyone really know what's going on with Geno's copyrights? It's clear they got the rights at some point for Geno for smash 4's mii costume. What on earth would stop them from negotiating or w/e?

Obviously Geno's rights are secured because hes going to be one of the first fp2 characters.

 

[Lord Woomy]

A question really: Does anyone really know what's going on with Geno's copyrights? It's clear they got the rights at some point for Geno for smash 4's mii costume. What on earth would stop them from negotiating or w/e?

From what I can tell, Square owns him but since he belongs to the Mario franchise, they can't really use him without Nintendo giving the thumbs up. Obviously, Nintendo wouldn't be the issue here so it all comes down to whether or not Square would give the ok.

 

[Polarthief]

So no Direct announcement. Next week for sure or I'm gonna go crazy.

Also how the heck did you guys do ~3 pages in 4 hours?

 

[pinshadow]

So no Direct announcement. Next week for sure or I'm gonna go crazy.

Also how the heck did you guys do ~3 pages in 4 hours?

Sakurai column dropped. Said Byleth was Nintendo's choice and that he thinks there are too many swords and FE characters.

OBVIOUSLY the logical conclusion is that Sakurai is lying because it doesn't fit with my narritive and Sakurai clearly just hates the smash fanbase, clearly.

 

[T2by4]

Anyone else think it's a huge problem that nintendo specifically shot down a character sakurai wanted and replaced them with a shill pick. Sakurai has said he's wanted Geno for years, I really hope Nintendo themselves didn't just gun down Geno like that.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I mean if that's true that they wanted to double dab on Sony, then what would that mean if Crash gets in? Crash is basically the face of Sony.

Crash is straight up Activision's decision now. No Sony requirements.

 

[pinshadow]

View attachment 261135

Anyone else think it's a huge problem that nintendo specifically shot down a character sakurai wanted and replaced them with a shill pick. Sakurai has said he's wanted Geno for years, I really hope Nintendo themselves didn't just gun down Geno like that.

There is zero evidence of that happenning. All he said was that Nintendo chose the characters and he would have put in other characters given the choice. Similar implications, but nothing implying he flat out asked for someone and Nintendo said no.

 

[AugustusB]

Do we have a complete translation from Push Dustin?

I do not doubt the other translation, but having another transcript to compare would be nice.

 

[pinshadow]

Do we have a complete translation from Push Dustin?

I do not doubt the other translation, but having another transcript to compare would be nice.

Seriously guys, heres the full interview

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sr4sfq

Nothing here implies that Sakurai had a character in mind Nintendo didn't allow, just that they made the decision on who was getting in.

This is the translation pushdustin said to look at, he even retweeted it.

 

[Icewolff92]

-Free DLC for limited time.
-Only DLC with a Palutena Guidance
-Announced before game comes out
-One of the first characters to have their amiibo released
-Currently the only DLC to have its amiibo released

Yea, all signs point to Plant being base game. The question is, why was he pushed to DLC?

Probably the same reason as Mewtwo. Meant to base. but did not have enough time to finish the character in time

 

[DaxMasterix]

Who cares tho, There's a concept called "opportunity cost" So even if that happened, I think the choice wasn't rejected, just delayed.
If it was Nintendo then let'em, Sakurai and Nintendo deserves to add what they want.

We're still speculating so, perhaps Byleth was an add-on (and that's why we're getting 6 Characters in FP2), or perhaps Sakurai had another FE 3H Character in mind, whatever the matter, I think Byleth is pretty cool. And I'm happy nobody knows the next character for sure, I like surprises! (Terry was leaked by Nintendo, Byleth wasn't guessed and I expect #6 to be the same)