Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[wynn728]

Well, I'm back. But don't worry, I'm planning to not be on this website that long since Smash Bros is getting tiresome. Just going to say a few things.

So Byleth is in. This is what I was trying to warn about speculation for the past couple of months. There was never a likely character to end the Fighters Pass on. My only regret is not coming on to this board on Wednesday to say that I thought it was going to be Byleth because I was talking to my friend on Discord thinking that character was going to be the fifth fighter a couple of days ago before the announcement.

I was right about the Spirits deconfirming characters from the Fighters Pass. It's shows that the characters aren't deconfirmed because they're Spirits, it's more like they're spirits because there was no plans for them. With Fighters Pass Vol 2 maybe they'll go back to upgrading some Spirits and some Mii Costumes from the base game, I feel like MinMin and Rex & Pyra should be guarantee for Vol 2, just got to hope that Sakurai doesn't think the current representation is good enough.

We saw some Ubisoft Mii Costume without having a character represented as a fighter, and one of them was from Assassins Creed which is a huge franchise. I said it was entirely possible that if the CacoMallow Mii Costume was real then Doomguy might be a Mii Costume himself. I guess my pessimism is holding some weight. Especially saying how Sakurai doesn't really care much about western series being in Smash Bros. I mean just look at poor Ray-Man. As much as I love for Doomguy to be in Smash Bros it wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai only asked for a Mii Costume from Bethesda. Most people in Japan don't know much about Doom and Sakurai seems only interested in promoting Japanese games throughout the world and not showing the Japanese audience games from the west.

At the end of this Fighters Pass I can say with full confidence that this was a Fighters Pass that really caters to Sakurai's desires. You got Joker who comes from a game Sakurai loves so much that he design Ultimate's UI after that game. You got Dragon Quest which is a series that he loves so much. You got Terry who inspired Sakurai to make Smash Bros, you saw the history lesson and how in depth he went with listing ever single attack for Terry and what games they came from. And you got Fire Emblem which is also a series that Sakurai loves to death, he owns every single game in the series. We don't fully know how all the DLC is picked, but I think it's really safe to say that Sakurai's bias does play an important role on what characters gets in.

I still think Dante has a shot based on Itsuno's comments from February 2019.

And last we need to all chill with rumors, leaks, speculation and theories. I haven't seen the full picture because I don't really bother reading this entire board but I do see some are at each other throats. Tensions are high with Byleth's reveal and I don't know if things have gotten better or worse. It might be a great idea to just take a break from Smash Bros, that's what I'm going to try and do. Remember it's all a video game so try and act civil. If people are disappointed just let them be disappointed. If people are happy just let them be happy. Express yourself in a respectable. Also if you really feel burned about Byleth's inclusion go on and give the presentation a down vote. Better yet send the message clearly by not purchasing Vol 2 and just get them piece meal. Sure it might be an extra couple of dollars doing it that way but spread out through 2 years it shouldn't really hurt your wallet. I'm sure if Nintendo saw a decline in sales of people who bought the Fighters Pass Vol 2 early when compared to Vol 1 they would understand that they can't just end Smash Bros on a disappointing final announcement.

I also got a feeling that we'll see the reveal of the next character soon in the style of Joker's trailer. Nintendo definitely wants people to get invested in Smash Bros again and best way to do that is with a character reveal. With six character releasing in the span of two yeast that should be one character every three to four months, which lines up pretty well for when Nintendo Directs get released. Geno might happen or he might not, hard to say where this is going.

Anyways I'm expecting this post to get some kind of report and get banned again, so goodbye.

 

[TheCJBrine]

2 Microsoft (Cuphead and ???)

[worry intensifies]

 

[I.D.]

This is proof that all the hate is LITERALLY just because Byleth is from Fire Emblem. If Byleth was from another franchise, even one no one heard about, they would be less angry.

"RAAAAAAAAARG YOU ONLY DISLIKE BYLETH BECAUSE HE'S FROM FIRE EMBLEM HURRRR"

 

[Fatmanonice]

Which of your contacts are the most reliable to you?

One guy basically specializes in Nintendo hardware and firmware updates. Solid Nintendo record, hilariously bad Smash record.

One guy specializes in indies and having a decent idea of when presentations are coming. Knows really esoteric stuff from a lot of companies somehow. Is kind of infamous for being bad on timing.

One guy is friends with like 3 or 4 playtesters. Manages to get really accurate development reports and potential games that are in the pipeline.

One guy is kind of eclectic. He has the most sources of his own. He's kind of like me, a middle man, but he somehow actually knows developers in real life.

This all said, they're all good at different things. Second guy probably has the best track record overall.

 

[Icewolff92]

Watching some more reaction videos of Byleth's character reveal, I can see now how it is very possible (and most likely is what actually happened) that indeed Byleth was switched in as Challenger Pack 5 at last minute, and the original DLC #5 may have been moved to Vol. 2. Byleth's reveal trailer is atypical for a Smash Direct since:

cough, revealed on the same day as the trailer for the last wave of Smash DLC cough...

This whole conspiracy theory on Byleth was changed for "X" reason shriek tinfoil hat desperation. Releases/reveales like these are planned in advance.

 

[ForsakenM]

My ban has finally been lifted. Jesus Christ, this place is turning into a borderline police state but hey, it is what it is. All I can say is I've had time these last 3 days to process Byleths inclusion into Smash, and to be brutally honest, I spent very little time thinking about it. I was over it before my posting privileges even were revoked. I think it's totally justified to be a little upset by it, but to act like spoiled rotten man-children like PapaGenos is just ridiculous. I expected better from him, so I unsubbed. I also expected better from some people in this thread. There's been a couple of goddamn stupid idiots gere saying goddamn stupid things but alas, I guess Smash Bros. means their lives to them which is sad and pathetic. Granted, this thread hasn't been as others have been during my few days of lurking, so I won't put to much attention on any certain individuals. They know who they are.

Eleven DLC characters and people can't forgive Nintendo or Sakurai for making one an FE character? Eleven guys. The rest prior to Byleth have been pretty goddamn awesome regardless of how controversial guys like Hero or Terry have been, they're fun as hell to play. I think people need to realize that Sakurai doesn't owe us a jack****. If people do think Sakurai owes us better or more then I think those people should just take their entitled asses and find a new game to play. The damage is done and the decision is irreversible. Although I'm not excited about Byleths inclusion and I don't play or care one bit about FE I'm looking forward to playing him/her.

Also, I saw Fatmanonice posted some of his info. That's ballsy. Although impulsive and something that I personally wouldn't have done, that's ballsy and I respect that. My favourite part was when people were telling him to go afk or take a break. Although I admire some of the folks saying this and I genuinely believe that maybe they do have concern for his well being when he did this, the last thing he's gonna do is walk away, especially when he's told to walk away. When you ask Fatman to jump, he doesn't ask "how high?" he responds with: "I'll do ya one better, hold my beer and watch this ****!".

Also I keep seeing some discussion about Waluigi. I want to share again my case for why Waluigi won't be and shouldn't be in Smash, it's my own personal essay but I think it fell on deaf ears because it was posted minutes before the announcement of the Smash presentation so give it some time if you have it! It also covers a bit why I believe Pirahna Plant was always considered to be under the category of bonus or FreeLC because I'm not convinced he was ever considered for base game or the FP as this topics been brought up the last few days as well. Granted, this post is a little dated because it was posted before the presentation but points about the stuff I mention still stands.

I think your Waluigi stuff fell mostly on deaf ears because most people are okay with him and don't let his status stop them from wanting him in the game, regardless of what that status is or what people think that status is.

Also, gonna have to call you out on this, but your hot take on PapaGenos is stupid. You are allowed to feel however you want and feel free ton unsub from him but one unsub isn't going to change the fact that he was genuinely unhappy with another FE rep and rather than hide is disappointment he let it all loose when he's normally a super-chill dude. You can't tell me you've never had a trigger button over something stupid because this is the modern age and WE ALL HAVE A TRIGGER BUTTON OVER SOMETHING STUPID!

However, kind of ironic that it's okay for you to feel however you want but when Papa shows how he feels you unsub from him and call him a spoiled rotten man-child. KINDA HYPOCRITICAL.

"RAAAAAAAAARG YOU ONLY DISLIKE BYLETH BECAUSE HE'S FROM FIRE EMBLEM HURRRR"

Imagine hating a character not because of their moveset or even who they are, but from the series they come from.

I'm sure there is a liberal -ist word out there that would fit this. Hey EricTheGamerman what would be a liberal -ist word to fit this?

Also, anyone who thinks this exact same character would have been better with a Monster Hunter or Dante reskin is not only showing their bias but also has no idea how wrong they are because it would horribly reflect MH or DMC.

All of MH's weapons are much more complex than the ones Byleth uses, right down to the Bow even being more complex than how Byleth uses it. It would be a horrible representation of the franchise. As a huge MH fan and someone who has experimentation with all the weapons, I would know. MvCI with all it's flaws is a much better representation of MH. Also Dante uses guns, a guitar, and most recently a motorcycle and is in a similar situation where the weapons that do match aren't complex enough.

Please, don't say it would be better to ruin another character and misrepresent another franchise just because of your blind hate for Fire Emblem, Nintendo's next big franchise that just had a super successful game on the Switch.

 

[I.D.]

Imagine hating a character not because of their moveset or even who they are, but from the series they come from.

Imagine missing the whole point of a crossover game. "boy I don't get why people would react better to new games instead of the 8th fire emblem character! what a bunch of hypocrites!"

Also, anyone who thinks this exact same character would have been better with a Monster Hunter or Dante reskin is not only showing their bias but also has no idea how wrong they are because it would horribly reflect MH or DMC.

Nobody is asking for a lazy reskin of the FE moveset we got, people are just pointing out that if Sakurai really wanted a "weapon master" type of character there were plenty of options for him to pick from, but, as always when it comes to Sakurai, Fire Emblem ended up winning.

 

[Deleted member]

[worry intensifies]

It could be Steve or Chief, but what if it’s Lucky?

 

[Polarthief]

This accidentally became a way bigger post than expected and it's almost all about Byleth. Sorry!

The point is that SSBU is saturated with FE characters at this point with most being added in Smash 4 and people would prefer characters from other franchises get some representation too in SSBU.

Since I know someone's gonna bring up "but Mario and Pokemon": Mario is the true heart of Nintendo since their shift to video games. Yes, they have a lot of IPs, but Mario is *the* mascot of Nintendo, and so far, they have represented nearly all of major characters from it, and even now some of the minor ones. Waluigi is like the only one missing.

Pokemon is the biggest grossing media franchise in the world (and that's an undeniable fact). It beats things you thought would be way bigger like Star Wars. It also has over 800 characters to pick from and they span across multiple regions and generations.

Fire Emblem, while I don't know how big it is in Japan, is still kinda fresh in the West, popping up first on the GBA (and not even including any main character from that game... unless you count Assist Trophies). It's still a fairly fresh series compared to the likes of Mario and Pokemon. It's also nowhere near as popular in the West (probably even the East) as Mario and Pokemon, so it's honestly justified that Mario and Pokemon would get a ton of reps: both being huge for different reasons and well-loved across the globe, vs a series that gets over-represented, especially when it comes to the West.

For the record, I say this as a moderate fan of Fire Emblem since I picked up the first (Western) one, thinking it was "a different kind of Advance Wars" at the time. I've also said numerous times that I loved 3H (literally my GOTY for 2019), but am still overall disappointed in Byleth, heavily because it's a FE character. I truly do think that Fire Emblem is by far the most overrepresented series in Smash, taking up just under 10% (9.76%) of the roster (8 out of 82), and I've already said why Mario and Pokemon should be the most represented. Mario is at 9 (11 if you include Yoshi and Wario, 12 if you count DK too), and Pokemon at 10 (I fully do expect a Gen 8 DLC in FP2 and I'm really hoping for Toxtricity). Also as an added bonus since Zelda is a massively popular franchise of Nintendo, it's at a measly 6 (and 2 of them are literally other Links)!

I'm not trying to throw shade on Fire Emblem or anything; again, it's a great series and I plan to pick up every other release or so, but there's no denying it's a bit overrepresented in Smash, even moreso with the inclusion of Byleth, and this is why people are getting annoyed with "yet another FE" reveals. It's that not only is Fire Emblem overrepresented, it's that so many series are underrepresented, having literally 0 characters.

Imagine hating a character not because of their moveset or even who they are, but from the series they come from.

People shouldn't outright hate Byleth because "another FE", but they are more than allowed to be disappointed by it. Once people play the character though, I doubt they'll really care as much, myself included, especially when we get the ball rolling on DLC 6.

Also, anyone who thinks this exact same character would have been better with a Monster Hunter or Dante reskin is not only showing their bias but also has no idea how wrong they are because it would horribly reflect MH or DMC.

While I think MH would have been a better choice for expectations (and I say this as someone who has *BARELY* touched MH to begin with), you can't even switch weapons mid-hunt. Honestly, without horribly breaking conventions of the game, I don't see how a MH rep would work, unless you have 8 different movesets based on which costume you pick or do a Down-B thing like Pokemon Trainer. There are still better "Weapon Master" characters you could potentially pick from and making it a Fire Emblem character after having all the time in the world to make it an FE character previously... idk, it just feels like a touch of bias towards FE, especially given that you rarely even master more than 1 (if lucky, 2) weapons in most FEs. Even in 3H I highly doubt anyone got more than 2 skills to S-rank sans NG+.

It could be Steve or Chief, but what if it’s Lucky?

The vast majority of the Internet would go "literally who?" harder than they did over Terry. There's no way; I haven't even heard a single person requesting them (FE obviously gets an exception).
I'm a dumb, thought that was about an actual fighter because I was too preoccupied not losing this post because I nearly lost it.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The vast majority of the Internet would go "literally who?" harder than they did over Terry. There's no way; I haven't even heard a single person requesting them (FE obviously gets an exception).

We’re talkin’ mii costumes/disconfirms.

 

[Fatmanonice]

It could be Steve or Chief, but what if it’s Lucky?
View attachment 258744

Master Chief is one of my predicted 6 so I can say it's not Master Chief. Surprisingly, it's not Steve either.

 

[Fire Scyther]

I may have commented on here before but I don't remember even though I want to say that I'd like to be considered a Geno supporter, despite me liking everyone's posts the past few months, lol. You see, I used to loathe him a year ago for whatever reason, that he wasn't interesting and not cool enough, etc. But looking past that it'd be selfish of me to not really want anyone for the sake of disliking someone getting in Smash instead of my favorite character since Smash is just a game that is there to play and be enjoyed for, not sunking in the depths of your sorrows since there's more to life than Smash as its a game ready to entertain us. But I'm getting off the branches, all I want to say is that it's pointless to hate against someone, sure, it's okay to be disappointed but as long as you don't rain on everyone's parade or act way too destructive, because remember, it's just a game after all. Your life doesn't depend on it, nor will Smash fix all your problems as all it is is just an escape to enjoy and have some entertainment.

As for Byleth, their movesets seem very interesting and I can't wait to try their moves out, despite me having yet to play Three Houses!

And as for Geno himself, I haven't played Super Mario RPG and when I do it'll definitely be through the SNES Online, if it ever comes, plus he's got a cool design and I'm pretty sure Sakurai can work around him and make him a likable overall character! Besides Byleth shows that first parties are still on the run so don't give hope and stay strong, Genobros!

 

[StarLight42]

Master Chief is one of my predicted 6 so I can say it's not Master Chief. Surprisingly, it's not Steve either.

TheCJBrine I think we can take our collective sigh of relief.

 

[Polarthief]

We’re talkin’ mii costumes/disconfirms.

... SHIET. Disregard that then, I'm a dumb.

(people would still go "literally who?" over the mii costume though, lol)

 

[cybersai]

Is Ryu Hayabusa still one of the speculated characters in the season pass or is that done for? I've been out of the loop, remember hearing he was considered for the first pass.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Master Chief is one of my predicted 6 so I can say it's not Master Chief. Surprisingly, it's not Steve either.

TheCJBrine I think we can take our collective sigh of relief.

Thank goodness.

Though, I would take a dumb Mii costume over nothing, admittedly...

 

[Deleted member]

I think your Waluigi stuff fell mostly on deaf ears because most people are okay with him and don't let his status stop them from wanting him in the game, regardless of what that status is or what people think that status is.

You may be right. The whole point of the post was to get answers as to why? Maybe this thread was the wrong place to post it. I may just bite the bullet and take my chances just post it in the Waluigi support thread instead.

Also, gonna have to call you out on this, but your hot take on PapaGenos is stupid. You are allowed to feel however you want and feel free ton unsub from him but one unsub isn't going to change the fact that he was genuinely unhappy with another FE rep and rather than hide is disappointment he let it all loose when he's normally a super-chill dude. You can't tell me you've never had a trigger button over something stupid because this is the modern age and WE ALL HAVE A TRIGGER BUTTON OVER SOMETHING STUPID!

My hot take is stupid, eh? Kinda like your one hot take that Geno supporters who didn't buy the Geno Mii costume in Smash 4 should be to blame if Geno doesn't get included this time around? I will never forget you saying that because that was some of the stupidest **** I've ever read in relation to Geno's chances, so don't talk to me about "stupid hot takes" because mine will never compare to that load of asinine that you shared months ago, kiddo.

I wasn't upset or triggered or mad about PapaG's reaction. I was disappointed by it because I thought he was a super-chill dude. Now my feelings on him are changed and it's because of how he went about himself in his reaction. He could have just said or expressed that he was disappointed in a calm and collected fashion that we all know him for but no, he didn't. He acted like an entitled child and frankly I don't want to be subscribed to people like that. That's my choice and my prerogative. If some think it's stupid, oh well. If he wants to be an adult, he should start acting like one.

And yes I've had triggers over the span of my existence, but not over a children's game. He's allowed to be unhappy, he's allowed to be disappointed and hell, he's allowed to act like a baby about it just like how I'm allowed to unsub to someone because I expected better than him. This isn't a protest to ruin his work or a stance to make him suffer, I just don't want my account to be associated with someone like that. Trust me, it hurts me than it hurts him to unsub. I genuinely liked and supported the dude, but not no more.

However, kind of ironic that it's okay for you to feel however you want but when Papa shows how he feels you unsub from him and call him a spoiled rotten man-child. KINDA HYPOCRITICAL.

I'm a hypocrite about a lot of things. Smoking cigarettes, doing drugs, drinking before 11am but I think in this circumstance in regards to Byleth, one not giving a **** and the other throwing a fit in front of an audience over one out of ELEVEN DLC charaters, there's a very fine line between the two to resort to call one a hypocrite. So I don't think it's hypocritical at all, but if it is, so be it.

 

[Spatulo]

Master Chief is one of my predicted 6 so I can say it's not Master Chief. Surprisingly, it's not Steve either.

So I’d guess Gears of War man or a Forza car

 

[RuffyYoshi]

It could be Steve or Chief, but what if it’s Lucky?
View attachment 258744

I was about to suggest him being a potential Mii Costume after playing the game today! I'd love to suplex others as Lucky.

 

[EarlTamm]

I don't think this was shared here yet. Pretty excellent art.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Springwood Slasher]

I don't think this was shared here yet. Pretty excellent art.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

That makes me want a SMRPG remake or sequel so bad with more party members (Luigi, Yoshi, Toad, maybe Daisy and Wario).

MAKE IT HAPPEN Nintendo!!!

 

[RuffyYoshi]

Why the Smash fandom ACTUALLY hates Fire Emblem: A detailed thread

No knee jerk reactions, an actual in-depth discussion on where the hostility comes from pic.twitter.com/oG04kWjtT4

— Monkey D. Lenny | Vtuber (@MonkeyDLenny) January 19, 2020

Dunno if this was posted but it's a great summary about the problem with FE in Smash. Thanks MonkeyDLenny !

 

[Vector Victor]

I don't hate Byleth. I don't hate Fire Emblem. And I don't hate Sakurai for adding Byleth.

I just want Nintendo to stop going to FE for characters every time and instead give other franchises a chance to shine.

What I am getting sick of are the specific FE defenders, so of course not the fanbase as a whole, pushing this guilt trip crap at anyone not praising this addition, from the haters throwing dumb FE whining tantrums, to people who are just disappointed in another FE addition (even after they admit that they like Byleth's moveset). 'Oh, you don't like it? You spoiled man baby! Your entitled attitude is a disrespect to all the great things Sakurai does!' Ironically, for all of this group's accusations of Smash fans acting like entitled snobs, THEY are acting like entitled snobs in their overly defensive attitude. I've seen that guilt slinging far more than the 'Fire Sakurai!' replies (but I easily assume they exist because someone says that after EVERY reveal).


And if people REALLY hated FE as much as its claimed, then why were the 3 Houses DLc trailers, presented immediately after the Smash reveal, rated highly liked, while the Smash reveal is the one that's disliked? People are just tired seeing one franchise get all this attention, justified or not. That's the risk in cross-over media.

 

[RuffyYoshi]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

*fires up the speculation machine*​

 

[Icewolff92]

I don't think this was shared here yet. Pretty excellent art.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Finding art like this is just pure joy

 

[Axelocke]

I don't hate Byleth. I don't hate Fire Emblem. And I don't hate Sakurai for adding Byleth.

I just want Nintendo to stop going to FE for characters every time and instead give other franchises a chance to shine.

What I am getting sick of are the specific FE defenders, so of course not the fanbase as a whole, pushing this guilt trip crap at anyone not praising this addition, from the haters throwing dumb FE whining tantrums, to people who are just disappointed in another FE addition (even after they admit that they like Byleth's moveset). 'Oh, you don't like it? You spoiled man baby! Your entitled attitude is a disrespect to all the great things Sakurai does!' Ironically, for all of this group's accusations of Smash fans acting like entitled snobs, THEY are acting like entitled snobs in their overly defensive attitude. I've seen that guilt slinging far more than the 'Fire Sakurai!' replies (but I easily assume they exist because someone says that after EVERY reveal).


And if people REALLY hated FE as much as its claimed, then why were the 3 Houses DLc trailers, presented immediately after the Smash reveal, rated highly liked, while the Smash reveal is the one that's disliked? People are just tired seeing one franchise get all this attention, justified or not. That's the risk in cross-over media.

I enjoyed Three Houses, and don't mind Byleth being added, but I agree. It's a crossover game, which is a great opportunity to see characters from games you wouldn't expect to be fighting one another.

I unfortunately see Byleth as only a promotional pick, on time with the upcoming DLC. Byleth isn't a bad addition, but they are an addition from a series already represented in Smash. I know some may say that about Geno, but I believe he isn't technically from the main Super Mario series, he comes from the Mario RPG side series of games, which aren't really represented in Smash besides a few music tracks and a Paper Mario stage. He represents the very first Mario RPG game, and the game itself was a crossover between Square Enix and Nintendo.

 

[CannonStreak]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

*fires up the speculation machine*​

What is that supposed to mean?

Wait, does this mean the Nintendo place at New York City is going to have an event of some kind?

 

[Franco Geno]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

*fires up the speculation machine*​

Geno is going to New York for vacation

 

[Axelocke]

What is that supposed to mean?

Wait, does this mean the Nintendo place at New York City is going to have an event of some kind?

Oh wait- that one place where people usually gather to react? Perhaps we're getting another reveal sooner than expected in a few weeks?

 

[CannonStreak]

Oh wait- that one place where people usually gather to react? Perhaps we're getting another reveal sooner than expected in a few weeks?

Yeah, that is what I meant. Hopefully, the New York City call means that.

 

[Deleted member]

What is that supposed to mean?

Wait, does this mean the Nintendo place at New York City is going to have an event of some kind?

They did say there would be a Super Nintendo World event in NY. Who knows?

 

[StarLight42]

So yesterday I had a lot of notifications following my pretty much rant about the state of Smash speculation / the rumors and theories of the Geno community / telling everyone to seriously consider the chance of an upgraded Geno Mii.

I didn't bother reading any such notifications, because I know what's going on here.
You guys are all correct. It's the disappointing Smash reveal that's making me think this way. It's pretty much a repeat of the plant situation where I have lost all hope for not just one (Geno), but all of the characters I have been seriously holding out hope for in the next round of DLC. It's more exhausting than it seems to cling to these hopes and theories for so long only for a left field inclusion (obviously Byleth isn't left field in Sakurai terms but you get what I mean) to kick you down a flight of stairs and put you back at square one.

That doesn't undermine that you guys are correct that it's not worth me going on these mental-breakdown esque rants just because I lost hope in a video game character not being included in a roster with 70+ characters already.

I already apologized and said i'd take a break from Smash speculation, and it was pretty scummy when I didn't follow up with that promise and instead came back to cause trouble. It's just pretty difficult to distance yourself from something that you became heavily invested in for the last few months, even if that distance could go a long way.

So, i'd rather wait and see if I can actually hold my promise of taking a relaxation pill for a good while before making any other halfassed apologies that won't mean anything if I just spiral right back into rant mode.

At the very least, there's a few comments I want to make regarding some specific developments yesterday in terms of speculation. I ask that you guys don't necessarily forgive me, but rather ignore the way I acted yesterday and the day before and take me as a bystanding speculator. Again, not asking for forgiveness, just asking if you all can take me seriously with my next post (trust me, it's nothing negative, it's actually pretty positive for our starboy and a certain other character I will talk about in a bit)

 

[ForsakenM]

Imagine missing the whole point of a crossover game. "boy I don't get why people would react better to new games instead of the 8th fire emblem character! what a bunch of hypocrites!"

Nobody is asking for a lazy reskin of the FE moveset we got, people are just pointing out that if Sakurai really wanted a "weapon master" type of character there were plenty of options for him to pick from, but, as always when it comes to Sakurai, Fire Emblem ended up winning.

Imagine thinking Fire Emblem got another rep solely because of Sakurai when many signs point to it not being planned to happen like this. This is what happens when you make assumptions with a like of information. You have no idea if this was something Sakurai wanted, if he wanted it earlier in the base game but it fell through, or if Nintendo pushed it on him in some form. Also if he HAD to pick from First Party reps, there WEREN'T many options for a weapon master character.

But no, of course it's Sakurai's fault entirely. SHAME ON HIM FOR PUTTING IN A CHARACTER I DON'T LIKE!

Also, technically speaking, Byleth is from a world not represented in Ultimate yet and is a crossover character. You are also trying to strawman me in this argument, because I've already stated multiple times that I understand the disappointment and that I was also momentarily disappointed. The difference here is I'm mature enough to realize that Byleth is not only a perfectly fine choice for Smash even if I didn't want them but that their moveset clearly shows a desire to try and remedy the main Fire Emblem character complaint and that I'm not entitled to getting a character I want for every rep regardless of money spent because of the nature of buying a pass before knowing what the contents are.

In all honesty, not a single character in this Fighter's Pass means a damn thing to me. Joker is cool but I've never touched Persona or SMT. Hero is cool but he's not Geno and I've never touched DQ. Banjo and Kazooie is awesome but my love from them isn't nearly as strong as my love for Spyro. Terry is the closet thing to a pick made for me because I love fighting games in general and I love Terry but if it was made for me it would have been either Ryo or Robert or a fighter from another company. Byleth isn't my biggest choice and I'm not into Fire Emblem as much as I used to be so this wasn't a character for me either.

Am I going to ***** and moan about the whole pass not catering to me? No, absolutely not! It had amazing character choices and my personal preferences not lining up with that don't change that at all.

Also @Foz I plan on doing a bigger response to that post but for the sake of time I will address that I partially agree that I had a stupid hot take in regards to the Geno Mii Costume.

 

[Icewolff92]

I don't hate Byleth. I don't hate Fire Emblem. And I don't hate Sakurai for adding Byleth.

I just want Nintendo to stop going to FE for characters every time and instead give other franchises a chance to shine.

What I am getting sick of are the specific FE defenders, so of course not the fanbase as a whole, pushing this guilt trip crap at anyone not praising this addition, from the haters throwing dumb FE whining tantrums, to people who are just disappointed in another FE addition (even after they admit that they like Byleth's moveset). 'Oh, you don't like it? You spoiled man baby! Your entitled attitude is a disrespect to all the great things Sakurai does!' Ironically, for all of this group's accusations of Smash fans acting like entitled snobs, THEY are acting like entitled snobs in their overly defensive attitude. I've seen that guilt slinging far more than the 'Fire Sakurai!' replies (but I easily assume they exist because someone says that after EVERY reveal).


And if people REALLY hated FE as much as its claimed, then why were the 3 Houses DLc trailers, presented immediately after the Smash reveal, rated highly liked, while the Smash reveal is the one that's disliked? People are just tired seeing one franchise get all this attention, justified or not. That's the risk in cross-over media.

As someone that is a Fire Emblem fanatic, I can tell you right now, that we would rather have like 5 unique than 8 characters were the majority feels pretty much the same. The biggest reason we are hyped towards Byleth is that... well, we are finally getting a weapon triangle representative. Had Byleth just been "another Marth", you would see a lot more rage from the FE community than the general smash community I can tell you this much

 

[FalconFire93]

Why the Smash fandom ACTUALLY hates Fire Emblem: A detailed thread

No knee jerk reactions, an actual in-depth discussion on where the hostility comes from pic.twitter.com/oG04kWjtT4

— Monkey D. Lenny | Vtuber (@MonkeyDLenny) January 19, 2020

Dunno if this was posted but it's a great summary about the problem with FE in Smash. Thanks MonkeyDLenny !

I agree with everything said in the Twitter thread. I also think the whole “Hoes Mad” meme is overused way too much to the point that it has overstayed its welcome. It was funny the first few times when Hero was revealed, but it gets really old fast when it’s used each time a character is revealed that not all fans agree with.

 

[I.D.]

Imagine thinking Fire Emblem got another rep solely because of Sakurai when many signs point to it not being planned to happen like this.

Christ
Sakurai literally writes entire articles for free to magazines to jerk off Fire Emblem and advertise the hell out of it
Sakurai regularly goes to Fire Emblem concerts
Sakurai attends the Fire Emblem expo AND gives speeches in it about how great Fire Emblem is
It's his favorite videogame series and he's clearly biased man, how can you even deny it

Reminder that this is the third time Sakurai decides to include a Fire Emblem character while his game was still in development (Roy, Corrin, Byleth) and there are still people pretending Sakurai is some impartial slave to Nintendo and doesn't have any preference for Fire Emblem

 

[Grumbo]

I know he got banned but I wanted to give a quick shout-out to @nessdeltarune00 . He's definitely a critic of mine but he's usually pretty good about it. Yes, things have gotten heated in the past but I think we've mostly patched things up. It's funny but I now have like 4 or 5 people who used to absolutely hate my guts but are now confidants so, yes, I am absolutely open to peaceful resolutions. So far there's only like two people on my **** List (no, Sabi and Verge aren't either of them and with Sabi it's simple a matter of "you live your life, I live mine") and they know who they are but, again, I'm willing to work things out in a vast majority of cases.

I mention Ness because he was was able to back up me knowing about Cuphead and the rest of the "lol, nope" list in advance. A lot of people have messaged me about it. "So... It's a Mii costume list?" No, it's always been described as a simple deconfirmation list but now I'm genuinely wondering if it is a potential Mii costume list after all. I've began to digest the names on the list and here's the basic breakdown:

3 Namco (Ms. Pac-Man, Kos-Mos, Nightmare)
1 Square Enix (???)
2 Microsoft (Cuphead and ???)
1 Indie (???)
1 SEGA (Arle)
1 Travis
1 Capcom (Elecman)
1 Nintendo (Gooigi)
1 ??? (definitely not spoiling this one)

Now, many people have noted the 4chan "Slime" Mii costume leak that had the 4 Three Houses costumes and the 2 indies, Kris from Deltarune and Knight from Hollow Knight. I can confirm this came from one of my contacts and they were incredibly pissed about it. They shared it with me on Christmas but apparently I was one of the last people they told. The situation was bad enough that 3 people apologized to ME in private over the leak. Let's just say my contact dropped a ton of confidants that day and will probably never speak to them again.

So, that out of the way, one of these Mii costumes was dead wrong: Male and female Byleth. Miserably ironic because we knew the TH stage and spirits were coming but we both didn't put two and two together. Super embarrassing but it happens. So, no surprise, the other 3 TH Mii costumes were the three house leaders: Stinky, Winky, and Malinky (that's their names, right?) Plug these 5 hypothetical Mii costumes in and we get this:

3 Namco
1 Square Enix
2 Microsoft
3 Indie
1 SEGA
1 Travis
1 Capcom
4 Nintendo
1 ???

Interesting. Now let's plug in the MIA Smash 4 DLC costumes:

6 Namco (add on Lloyd, Gil, and Heihachi)
3 Square Enix (add on Geno and Chocobo)
3 Capcom (add on Monster Hunter and Rathalos)

Let's go one step further and plug in the currently MIA Mii costume leak costumes from the summer and Cacodemon:

5 Square Enix (Mallow and Smithy)
1 Bethesda (Cacodemon)

Based on the Power of Six theory and Power of Two theory, we've had a hypothesis since about September that three of Season 2's characters would be Namco, Square, and Capcom. Power of Six theory suggests that no pack will have no more than six costumes and here's where we're at on those:

Namco- 6
Square Enix- 5
Capcom- 3

Coincidentally we have 5 potential Mii costumes that could count as "premium", the 3 Indies, Travis, and ???. There's 6 packs and Namco has a full pack of 6 based on this model. There's technically 4 Nintendo potentially accounted for if the TH costumes weren't bad info. Still, VERY interesting if this really was a Mii costume list. Again, nobody said it was and everyone assumed it was a simple rejection list. This is quite a potential development...

Master Chief is one of my predicted 6 so I can say it's not Master Chief. Surprisingly, it's not Steve either.

Well this is certainly interesting. Seems to bode well for Geno and some of my other personal favorites like Chief and Lloyd. Fingers crossed that extra square costume is Crono

That “???” one interests me especially. Definitely something earth shattering. Part of me thinks it might be borderline 4th party like a Geralt or even Darth Revan maybe (if we got Sora)

 

[Lord Woomy]

What I am getting sick of are the specific FE defenders, so of course not the fanbase as a whole, pushing this guilt trip crap at anyone not praising this addition, from the haters throwing dumb FE whining tantrums, to people who are just disappointed in another FE addition (even after they admit that they like Byleth's moveset). 'Oh, you don't like it? You spoiled man baby! Your entitled attitude is a disrespect to all the great things Sakurai does!' Ironically, for all of this group's accusations of Smash fans acting like entitled snobs, THEY are acting like entitled snobs in their overly defensive attitude. I've seen that guilt slinging far more than the 'Fire Sakurai!' replies (but I easily assume they exist because someone says that after EVERY reveal).

This is something I really don't get. If you got what you wanted, why do you seem so unhappy with it? Now, I've seen people like this before but I won't give specific circumstances because that would be way off topic, but they tend to just blame their unhappiness on their detractors instead of maybe dealing with the fact that they're just projecting on Smash fans whenever they say we're "never satisfied"
I never got why people say that Smash fans are never happy. Sure, there's always gonna be a few jerks that whine no matter what happens, but usually what happens is a few of those comments are taken posted all over Twitter and people say "Wow, even though I've seen only 3 comments of Smash fans getting upset, they're definitely all like this!" I feel like they're trying to use this as an excuse to have an "I win, you lose" button just so they don't have to think critically or at all about anything (After all, these guys have one joke that they repeat over and over and over). Every reveal before this, I've seen people still hyped and very few people disappointed or even upset, but somehow we're the toxic fanbase that hates everything that happens no matter what? Sure, sometimes the community responds poorly to a character when leaked before hand, but I think the poor response generally comes from the fact that it's presented to them as text on a screen instead of the epic, high budget trailers and presentations they use for the official reveals.
I also keep seeing the argument that Smash fans will go from defending to criticizing Sakurai a lot and I'm just like "Yeah, sometimes people have more complex opinions and judge decisions individually instead of just labeling things as "always perfect" or "always terrible". To quote Obi Wan "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" (I know that is also an absolute but I digress). I just can't help but think these people are genuinely projecting their whiny and never satisfied attitudes on us just so they can feel like the good guys and like they're doing some sort of public service by posting "HOES MAD" like the absolute comedians they are.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

But you guys got to remember that Sakurai announced when the first Season Pass started that Nintendo was choosing the selection for Season Pass 1 or at least Sakurai was choosing characters from a list that Nintendo gave to him. Nintendo I think had a strong grip on the first Pass, though I don't know if that will be the case for the 2nd.

 

[dsRed]

So I’d guess Gears of War man or a Forza car

Id guess it could definitely be Marcus from Gears. However another option could be something like Ori from Ori and the blind forest. I am not sure if Microsoft technically owns it. I don't think they do. But i'm pretty sure they published the first game and I could see someone possibly thinking they would count as a Micro rep. It also would continue the trend of Indies.