Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[AugustusB]

Nightmare is essentially the series logo at this point

Can I just say, IF Nightmare is coming, can we have a color scheme like that! It would be the slickest color palette yet!

 

[3DSNinja]

What if #5 is an Assist promotion?

 

[Akg0001]

So Heihachi could not get in Smash4 because of 3D movement. But Soul Calibur also use 3D movement. Its even more important there than in Tekken.

I am not sure about Nightmare getting in before Heihachi...

 

[wynn728]

It's so weird to hear Sol Badguy being talked about leakers. For the pass couple of weeks I was thinking how great he would be in Smash Bros and how it's never going to happen (ArcSystem needs a rep). Also seeing how we're hearing so many characters is totally suspicious that a lot of them ain't going to happen.

 

[Sigran101]

Remember when we used to talk about Geno?

 

[AugustusB]

Remember when we used to talk about Geno?

Pepperidge Farm remembers!

 

[Fatmanonice]

Fatmanonice I know this question is coming out of the blue but have you by any chance heard of anything Advance Wars related in the rumor mill? Be it a playable character or a Mii Costume.

I kinda already know the answer but I just want to hear it fron someone in the know.

Can't answer. Basically the only answer I can give is that not a lot of first/second party characters have been heard and it's overwhelmingly third party.

 

[Deleted member]

Out of all the characters in insider circles I think Geno, Lloyd, and Dante have a very high chance of happening in post pass. Crash, Doomguy, and Hayabusa for new companies unless Hayabusa was used as leak bait.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

I've been gone for a while, who died this time? Also fatman, did you write the megapost yet? (sorry if I'm the 23948748th to ask you that)

 

[RingJ5]

Two words: Scientific Method. Like I've said, I'm not afraid of being wrong and part of the scientific method is being willing to change your view points in the face of newer and stronger evidence. You start with a hypothesis (character 5 will belong to Namco) and then you find evidence to support that hypothesis. Based on the evidence you find, you then draw certain conclusions (character 5 will probably be a Tales character) but then newer and stronger pieces of evidence can topple that (Sabi's source says that 5 absolutely is not from Tales) and you have to redirect your conclusions (character 5 will probably be from Soul Caliber). Of course, an honest scientist recognizes that the Scientific Method is not finite and that all conclusions should: 1. be carefully analyzed and reanalyzed, 2. regularly challenged and be able to "stand up for itself" and 3. be willing to be changed if newer and stronger evidence suggests that it's inaccurate or wrong.

Take for example the post I made earlier:

"Nightmare fits a lot of patterns that I've honestly been mulling over for literally two months:

-Fits my "Thank You" theory.

-Fits the Power of Six theory.

-Gives credence to why the four/five front runners in insider circles were all sword fighters: Lloyd, Nightmare, Sol, Dante, and Sephiroth.

-Follows the predominant "niche" theme of the Fighter's Pass.

-Follows past patterns of Smash games ending on niche/underwhelming characters to the general Smash fanbase.

-Pushing Lloyd to Post Pass gives credence to the strong theory that Post Pass will be pretty fanservicey based on the names heard and Lloyd definitely fits that bill a lot better than Nightmare.

-Fits Reggie's "entirely new to Smash" comments to a T.

Just like with Lloyd, I don't want to get too ahead of myself and if I were to revise my statement from the other day: Nightmare = rando >>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>> anyone hard deconfirmed by Sabi's sources for 5."

Note how I said that Nightmare fits patterns that I've been analyzing for two months. When Sabi's source tossed out Lloyd/Tales, I didn't throw everything away, I merely went back to the drawing board to re-examine my conclusions. Upon my re-examination, I opened my thinking to new possibilities, possibilities that arguably created a stronger hypothesis.

Key point of redirected analysis: Nightmare has more in common with Joker, Hero, Banjo, and Terry than Lloyd does and fits the Fighter's Pass better.

-A running theme of all the Fighter's Pass characters is history of crossovers. As pointed out earlier, Soul Caliber is much stronger than Tales in that regard and coincidentally would be the strongest of the Fighter's Pass, a brand new conclusion based on redirected analysis.

-As many people have argued, Reggie said that the Fighter's Pass would introduce worlds and characters totally new to Smash. If we take this at absolute face value, Soul Caliber fits this better than Tales because Smash 4 has the Lloyd Mii costume while Soul Caliber has never had anything in Smash.

-Fighting game crossovers. Ultimate currently has content from: Street Fighter, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Samurai Showdown, Tekken, Virtua Fighter, the Megaman fighting games, the Sonic fighting games, Marvel vs Capcom, Garou, Joy Mech Fight, Marvel vs SNK, etc. Based on this, Soul Caliber would be a natural addition.

-Soul Caliber 2 had Link, the first time a major Nintendo IP was used in a third party franchise, a very notable event in Nintendo's history. Tales doesn't really have an event like this in its history that compares.

Again, these are new lines of thinking that opened up because we accepted that our original conclusion was wrong or at least a lot less likely to be true. On that note, Sabi's source could be wrong but that's an illogical conclusion. It's a possibility to consider but based on the evidence is not a smart thing to get hung up on. In the end, yes, sometimes it does seem like jumping from sinking ship to sinking ship but the Scientific Method is not static, it's dynamic. It's not stationary, it's proactive. This is ultimately the key to good and thoughtful speculation, no matter the topic.

My main issue with all this, is I think the hypothesis is flawed to begin with.

When it comes to official Smash media, we’ve legitimately got more going against a Namco reveal recently than we do going towards one, with that Pac-Man anecdote from the Terry stream. To start legitimately speculating a Namco character as #5, you have to start with the argument that Sakurai literally saying that
Pac-Man’s their only character was a flat-out lie, which is something that I can’t exactly agree with.

And personally, when four names suddenly float to the top and half of them are deconfirmed as leakbait, I’m absolutely more inclined to consider the other half as bait as well, especially when we have multiple confirmations that bait is a thing that all these companies use.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m fully aware of your status of “not a leaker but an informed spectator”, and am not disputing that. The issue that I’m having is whether you like it or not, half the thread hangs on your every word, so your completely well-meaning theories end up getting basically treated as fact no matter what.

Like, just to clarify: Has anything happened behind the scenes that actually points to Nightmare, or are you just basing all this off of backroom speculation, like it sounded like Lloyd and Dante were? Again, it’s perfectly fine if you are, I just want to make it clear that it’s “insider speculation” rather than “insider leaks”.

I suppose, if anything, I’m just annoyed by what I’m calling the “Broken Costume Theory Effect”. Basically, up until early September, half the fandom was in full agreement that the pass would go “Sega, Square, Namco, Capcom, ?”, with the ? turning out to be Microsoft. Then, out of absolutely nowhere, we got... SNK, taking up a slot that people fully expected either Namco or Capcom to fill. But instead of people widening their horizons and considering a bunch of new companies as potentially in the running as a result, a sizable amount of people have done nothing except for double down on #5 only possibly being from Namco or Capcom, and that’s really disappointing, in my opinion.

I suppose we’ll know for certain in just under two weeks, at least.

 

[Grumbo]

I've been gone for a while, who died this time? Also fatman, did you write the megapost yet? (sorry if I'm the 23948748th to ask you that)

Lloyd is knocked out for #5, but still likely post-pass. Nightmare from Soul Calibur seems to be the front runner now. He hasnt made the post yet

 

[Fatmanonice]

Remember when we used to talk about Geno?

I take the blame for that entirely. My intention was for you all to be at the forefront of Smash rumors and rumblings because you all are mi amici, mi famalia, and have been for almost a decade and a half. Now that almost all the "secret names" have been made public, it should calm down. Instead of doing a big ass post about Geno, I'm probably going to divide it into individual posts because, let's face it... At ten sections, this thing is going to be an absolute monster when it's totally done and will probably exceed the word count anyways.

 

[Ura]

Can't answer. Basically the only answer I can give is that not a lot of first/second party characters have been heard and it's overwhelmingly third party.

Alright I totally understand. Thanks for replying.

 

[waterhasataste]

Which character is everyone leaning towards for FP5 now? KOS-MOS?

I'm willing to bet it's ether Nightmare or a Dark Souls rep

 

[Franco Geno]

I take the blame for that entirely. My intention was for you all to be at the forefront of Smash rumors and rumblings because you all are mi amici, mi famalia, and have been for almost a decade and a half. Now that almost all the "secret names" have been made public, it should calm down. Instead of doing a big ass post about Geno, I'm probably going to divide it into individual posts because, let's face it... At ten sections, this thing is going to be an absolute monster when it's totally done and will probably exceed the word count anyways.

Oh boy the Geno bible is coming and i can't be more excited about it

 

[Rohanx17]

And another one bites the dust aye? Honestly don't mind this because now I can move Lloyd to 7 without having to consider another possibility and frankly he's always fit better there anyway. Nightmare seems to check off all the boxes of our expectations much more neatly so this is a good arrangement. That said while nightmare feels like the correct choice my heart is still supporting an upset. I'll probably be wrong but it's a feeling I just can't shake. That said if wa shows up I'm going to laugh my *** off.

glad silva actually did the forest maze theme. Still not sure why we didn't open with that but whatever, at least it sounds good hopefully we get the battle with an armed boss rip before were done. Worried were going to going to just get knocked out asap yet again.

 

[Midget Master]

I feel that in discussion of other characters the truth about Geno can be made plain. I also tend to view Lloyd and Geno as "paired" - seeing one of them would, in my mind, greatly increase the chances of seeing the other. Both are mii costumes that have been held back suspiciously long and both are much more for the Smash faithful than general audiences. Lloyd as FP5 didn't make sense to me in that respect, as well as seeming a rather underwhelming choice for the VGAs. A character like that being held back lends more credence to the line of thinking that post-pass will trend toward longtime requests, and requests don't get much longer timed than Geno at this point.

All I ask is that they not get costume'd by a Soul Calibur character. Or by anyone, really.

 

[Firox]

I take the blame for that entirely. My intention was for you all to be at the forefront of Smash rumors and rumblings because you all are mi amici, mi famalia, and have been for almost a decade and a half. Now that almost all the "secret names" have been made public, it should calm down. Instead of doing a big ass post about Geno, I'm probably going to divide it into individual posts because, let's face it... At ten sections, this thing is going to be an absolute monster when it's totally done and will probably exceed the word count anyways.

So, for myself and many others that have been away for the holidays, could someone give us a quick list of the "secret names" just for summary's sake?

 

[MissingGlitch]

Remember when we used to talk about Geno?

The **** is a Geno?

 

[Rohanx17]

So, for myself and many others that have been away for the holidays, could someone give us a quick list of the "secret names" just for summary's sake?

geno
ryu
crash
dante
lloyd
nightmare
sol badguy
***
***********
*******

 

[Deleted member]

geno
ryu
crash
dante
lloyd
nightmare
sol badguy
***
***********
*******

Wasn’t Doomguy in insider circles?

 

[Datboigeno]

I am torn on whether I want the FP5 trailer to include a tease to the second wave of DLC or not. On one hand we’d get a more or less good idea if Geno is in or not. On the other hand I could see if characters were in silhouette lots of infighting over whether a character is one or another unless their silhouette is very distinctive . The most hype thing would be a big surprise reveal of the entire second pass in one go especially if they aren’t getting individual cgi trailers. But I wonder if Nintendo would do that considering it’d be a choice between a massive hype bomb and spreading out the suspense over another year.

 

[EarlTamm]

I take the blame for that entirely. My intention was for you all to be at the forefront of Smash rumors and rumblings because you all are mi amici, mi famalia, and have been for almost a decade and a half. Now that almost all the "secret names" have been made public, it should calm down. Instead of doing a big ass post about Geno, I'm probably going to divide it into individual posts because, let's face it... At ten sections, this thing is going to be an absolute monster when it's totally done and will probably exceed the word count anyways.

I mean, this info in many ways assist Geno speculation wise(Especially when it comes to the costume theory), so it's fair to talk about here, even if it is characters that are not Geno.

 

[Rohanx17]

Wasn’t Doomguy in insider circles?

nope, cacomallow was apparently just as much of a surprise to them as it was to us.

 

[Deleted member]

nope, cacomallow was apparently just as much of a surprise to them as it was to us.

Oh ok

 

[Fatmanonice]

RingJ5 There is stuff behind the scenes that seemingly were pointing to any of the four characters I originally proposed. For Dante, the Trilogy for Switch has been known by insiders since probably August and, for Lloyd, rumors for Lloyd have been floating around for a year and, like my colleague pointed out the other day, an avalanche of evidence for something Tales and Nintendo related has been around since September. As for Nightmare and Sol, there is more but I can't talk about it but both rumors go back to about July or so. It's another one of those circumstances where I can't show all my notes and only theorize publicly on what is, well, public.

 

[Rohanx17]

We should start a betting pool to see which slot geno is going to take. I think 6 and 7 are the obvious frontrunners but it can only be one. To me it depends if we get just 5 at vga or they do a double reveal, because I just can't see geno showing his face there so lloyd will probably go in his stead and push him back to 7. We should know what's going on by march at the very least because if there's still no sign of him by e3 then we should start to panic,

 

[RingJ5]

RingJ5 There is stuff behind the scenes that seemingly were pointing to any of the four characters I originally proposed. For Dante, the Trilogy for Switch has been known by insiders since probably August and, for Lloyd, rumors for Lloyd have been floating around for a year and, like my colleague pointed out the other day, an avalanche of evidence for something Tales and Nintendo related has been around since September. As for Nightmare and Sol, there is more but I can't talk about it but both rumors go back to about July or so. It's another one of those circumstances where I can't show all my notes and only theorize publicly on what is, well, public.

See, I realize you can’t show all your notes, and I don’t want you to get in trouble or anything, but “there is more” could mean two very different things, the way you phrased it.

Either “there are rumors in general regarding those two franchises that I can’t talk about yet”, giving them the same kind of “not actually leaked for Smash but assumed due to coincidental info” status that Lloyd and Dante occupied, or it could mean that there has been more info that might specifically tie them to Smash, which you also can’t talk about.

Considering Sabi’s confused response that you showed off earlier when confirming that she let you talk about these names, I’m gong to assume that it’s the former option.

Funnily enough, that’s the exact logic I’ve been considering for why Chief still has a chance, with “MCC on Switch” leaked by insiders a few months ago.

 

[StarLight42]

WHEN New evidence for Wah theory has since emerged.

Tis’ a good day

 

[Franco Geno]

WHEN New evidence for Wah theory has since emerged.

Tis’ a good day

View attachment 248976

If Waluigi gets in then 4chan will explode with anger

 

[cosmicB]

I take the blame for that entirely. My intention was for you all to be at the forefront of Smash rumors and rumblings because you all are mi amici, mi famalia, and have been for almost a decade and a half. Now that almost all the "secret names" have been made public, it should calm down. Instead of doing a big ass post about Geno, I'm probably going to divide it into individual posts because, let's face it... At ten sections, this thing is going to be an absolute monster when it's totally done and will probably exceed the word count anyways.

Genuinely curious, is this why you don't post outside of this thread despite having information that would be relevant to fans of other characters with support threads? Sorry if this is out of line again, it just sounds like a recipe for off-topic disasters. Not that I have a problem with it, it's just interesting after coming from other forums that have much stricter off-topic rules. It's almost liberating in a way.

By the way, I don't know if you saw my post before with a question I asked: https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-1855#post-23689573

If you can't answer, just ignore this part of my post entirely. I was just worried you didn't see it, I'm not hounding on you to actually answer it if you can't, heh.

 

[OffBi]

WHEN New evidence for Wah theory has since emerged.

Tis’ a good day

View attachment 248976

What evidence?!?
I need to know!

 

[Plank08]

If geno doesn’t get in ultimate then he will never get in smash ever and the thought of that scares me honestly

 

[Convoy]

The **** is a Geno?

A miserable little pile of secrets.

 

[wynn728]

RingJ5 There is stuff behind the scenes that seemingly were pointing to any of the four characters I originally proposed. For Dante, the Trilogy for Switch has been known by insiders since probably August and, for Lloyd, rumors for Lloyd have been floating around for a year and, like my colleague pointed out the other day, an avalanche of evidence for something Tales and Nintendo related has been around since September. As for Nightmare and Sol, there is more but I can't talk about it but both rumors go back to about July or so. It's another one of those circumstances where I can't show all my notes and only theorize publicly on what is, well, public.

Wait, Devil May Cry Trilogy has been known since August? Is it safe to assume that when it was heard about back then that was when the Switch port started development? I'm trying to get an idea on how long it would take to port a game like Devil May Cry because Itsuno's comment back in February about how fans should campaign DMC for Switch so Dante can join Smash bugs me

 

[OffBi]

StarLight42 you mumbo jumbo give me evidence so I can look at it!

 

[StarLight42]

StarLight42 you mumbo jumbo give me evidence so I can look at it!

I’m writing it out please give me a sec bud

 

[MisterMike]

Instead of doing a big ass post about Geno, I'm probably going to divide it into individual posts because, let's face it... At ten sections, this thing is going to be an absolute monster when it's totally done and will probably exceed the word count anyways.

STORY TIME SOON?!

Also, is there really a word limit for posts? I've seen some pretty beefy posts on this site that've gone through just fine, so I had no idea that was the case.

 

[Fatmanonice]

See, I realize you can’t show all your notes, and I don’t want you to get in trouble or anything, but “there is more” could mean two very different things, the way you phrased it.

Either “there are rumors in general regarding those two franchises that I can’t talk about yet”, giving them the same kind of “not actually leaked for Smash but assumed due to coincidental info” status that Lloyd and Dante occupied, or it could mean that there has been more info that might specifically tie them to Smash, which you also can’t talk about.

Considering Sabi’s confused response that you showed off earlier when confirming that she let you talk about these names, I’m gong to assume that it’s the former option.

Funnily enough, that’s the exact logic I’ve been considering for why Chief still has a chance, with “MCC on Switch” leaked by insiders a few months ago.

It's definitely the former and kind of why "Jesus, not everything is tied to Smash..." has become a meme among insiders. People will hear things and then months later they'll hear about it being tied to Smash but still two separate things. For example, Dante. Dante was first heard in the early summer for Smash but the Trilogy rumors came months later. Lloyd's the same way, rumors for him for Smash came out a long time before all this other Tales stuff came about. This is basically the opposite for Sol and Nightmare. Other rumors came up first and Smash rumors came later. Plus, kind of like the recent Gordon and Dante fakes, we've come to find that leakers will tack on fake Smash stuff to get the general public and news outlets to pay attention to it. On this note, this is yet another reason why people are super suspicious about Dante because this has already been done not once but twice in half a year. "Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice..."

 

[OffBi]

I’m writing it out please give me a sec bud

Oh geez sorry dud