Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[OffBi]

I think we should all talk about this guys. This is brand new information that could have interesting implications. What do you all think Fatmanonice means by this?

Probably chorus kids

 

[MattX20]

Okay guys, given how we were able to cross over 1700 pages today, how long do you think it will take before we reach 1900?

 

[Malo Mart]

I think we should all talk about this guys. This is brand new information that could have interesting implications. What do you all think Fatmanonice means by this?

My mind jumps straight to Geno, obviously with a bit of bias, but when I remember Sakurai's word that he had plans to include Geno since Brawl and supposedly Smash 4, it does make a bit of sense.

EDIT: And what if his Mii Costume was made out of assets they scrapped after they decided they couldn't add Geno as DLC for Smash 4?

 

[Louie G.]

I think we should all talk about this guys. This is brand new information that could have interesting implications. What do you all think Fatmanonice means by this?

I hope it means that we'll revisit the Rhythm Heaven character that was abandoned in Smash 4, but I think taking into account a few of the other things Fatman said this may lean more into Mii Costume territory. Geno, Lloyd and Heihachi at least have their clothes, hair and/or textures modeled into the game for one thing.

If it does buy into the Chorus Kids situation I suppose it could refer to characters who may be speculated to have been ditched due to time constraints or other complications such as Monster Hunter. I personally don't think Monster Hunter will happen but it could make sense under that assumption.

I'm gonna sit here and hope it's Chorus Kids and Geno though.

 

[Spatulo]

I think we should all talk about this guys. This is brand new information that could have interesting implications. What do you all think Fatmanonice means by this?

Yeah I think this info is something worth us digging into for a while. My thinking is this could go a few ways.
1. Cut characters (do we know any cut characters for a /fact/?)
2. Turning assist trophies into characters (Klaptrap gang rise up!)
3. A character that is in some way cobbled together using existing resources (think how Taskmaster in MvC3 straight up has moves from other characters)

 

[7NATOR]

I think we should all talk about this guys. This is brand new information that could have interesting implications. What do you all think Fatmanonice means by this?

I had a theory that if Dante was Fighter #5, Vergil would also be playable and be the first Bonus Fighter

 

[Rohanx17]

There was a lot of good discussion on the topic already when he first dropped that hunch. I don't think there is anything more to be said that what already was there.

 

[Spatulo]

Also I just want to say that you guys who are younger than Smash 64 are making me feel ancient

 

[andree123]

-Can confirm that Sabi's source said no Geno or Doom Guy for #5.

-Doom Guy has only been a serious part of the conversation for about a week now. If he's coming, I wouldn't count on him until E3 at the earliest.

-"The Power of 6" Mii costume theory is pretty solid based on what I know.

-My theory is that 6 and 7 will be characters with leftover assets from Ultimate and Smash 4 since Season 2 was supposedly just decided around E3.

-No serious talk has been had about Sora but a lot of people agree he's probably coming eventually anyways due to his popularity. Basically wins the "Nintendo would probably run across a minefield to get for Smash" award.

-Ryu's suspect with two points being made is that Capcom and Team Ninja hate working together and how often the name comes up with nothing substantial tied to it. Personally gives me deja vu of Steve.

-Personally believe that #5 comes down to two characters on the hypothetical list or a curve ball no one has heard yet. Based on the fact that two of Sabi's bigger sources seemingly already know who it is, it's probably one from the list.

-Based on the hypothetical list, don't expect a ton of NPC promotions or first/second party.

-Don't expect any characters created after Joker/Luminary either (so around the 2017 mark I think).

I do think these ones that I bolded are extremely likely to happen to us.

 

[Malo Mart]

Yeah I think this info is something worth us digging into for a while. My thinking is this could go a few ways.
1. Cut characters (do we know any cut characters for a /fact/?)
2. Turning assist trophies into characters (Klaptrap gang rise up!)
3. A character that is in some way cobbled together using existing resources (think how Taskmaster in MvC3 straight up has moves from other characters)

That reminds me, Sakurai has stated he intended Takamaru to be a playable character in Smash 4, but due to his obscurity, was relegated to an Assist Trophy and later a Mii Costume. Makes me wonder if other Assist Trophies had a similar history, and so if they could so be reconsidered as DLC now.

Also I just want to say that you guys who are younger than Smash 64 are making me feel ancient

Hey, I was born a couple months before SSB64 released in Europe, so I'm also a boomer.

 

[AdamBel731]

My mind jumps straight to Geno, obviously with a bit of bias, but when I remember Sakurai's word that he had plans to include Geno since Brawl and supposedly Smash 4, it does make a bit of sense.

Yeah that was my thought too, though Fatmanonice has discussed Geno plenty of times and how he is confident in his chances + Geno's likelihood and never mentioned that assest stuff. He could be meaning Geno, but it just seemed weird that he'd say that sort of thing about Geno.

Yeah I think this info is something worth us digging into for a while. My thinking is this could go a few ways.
1. Cut characters (do we know any cut characters for a /fact/?)
2. Turning assist trophies into characters (Klaptrap gang rise up!)
3. A character that is in some way cobbled together using existing resources (think how Taskmaster in MvC3 straight up has moves from other characters)

That was my mindset. I think Geno will be in, but he doesn't necessarily have "assets" I don't think. Someone with an Assist Trophy and/or a scrapped fighter would have assests.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Also I just want to say that you guys who are younger than Smash 64 are making me feel ancient

"My first Mario game was Mario Galaxy!"

Oh. Oh no... (Working on a college campus, I have this existential crisis on an almost monthly basis.)

 

[Malo Mart]

Yeah that was my thought too, though Fatmanonice has discussed Geno plenty of times and how he is confident in his chances + Geno's likelihood and never mentioned that assest stuff. He could be meaning Geno, but it just seemed weird that he'd say that sort of thing about Geno.

That was my mindset. I think Geno will be in, but he doesn't necessarily have "assets" I don't think. Someone with an Assist Trophy and/or a scrapped fighter would have assests.

My mind jumps straight to Geno, obviously with a bit of bias, but when I remember Sakurai's word that he had plans to include Geno since Brawl and supposedly Smash 4, it does make a bit of sense.

EDIT: And what if his Mii Costume was made out of assets they scrapped after they decided they couldn't add Geno as DLC for Smash 4?

This is my small theory on how Geno could potentially have assets to be used in his development, but of course there's no evidence to back it up AFAIK. I guess his Mii Costume could still serve as a basis for his model no matter whether that's true or not, though.

 

[Spatulo]

That reminds me, Sakurai has stated he intended Takamaru to be a playable character in Smash 4, but due to his obscurity, was relegated to an Assist Trophy and later a Mii Costume. Makes me wonder if other Assist Trophies had a similar history, and if they could so be reconsidered as DLC now.

An idea I’ve bounced around my head is which assist trophies have “movesets”, and which ones have characters in their home series that could replace them. For example, Shadow is basically a Stopwatch item, so he most likely doesn’t have a lot of resources. But Isaac has moves and a hurt box. Bomberman, Waluigi, and Shovel Knight have running and grabbed animations. So they have a lot more stuff in place. And then to the second part, who could be replaced? The idea of just “turning their assist trophy off” when a character is chosen never sat right with me, like having an item that just turns off when a specific character is out. So instead, what if they added, say, Isaac and replaced his assist with Felix or Matthew? Though maybe that added work just emphasizes how unlikely assist upgrades are...

Hey, I was born a couple months before SSB64 released in Europe, so I'm also a boomer.

That helps a little, but I’m actually old enough to have played Super Mario RPG when it was on Blockbuster shelves, y’know, the game that inspired this novel-length thread XD

 

[Fatmanonice]

Spatulo Oh! So did I! I probably rented SMRPG 4 or 5 times from Blockbuster before my parents got it for me for Christmas '96.

 

[MattX20]

My first Mario game was Super Mario Allstars featuring Super Mario World on the SNES. That game actually gave Luigi unique sprites unlike the regular release which was just a pallete swap for Mario like older games

 

[Spatulo]

Spatulo Oh! So did I! I probably rented SMRPG 4 or 5 times from Blockbuster before my parents got it for me for Christmas '96.

Nice! Not to heap on the existential dread but I was a little young for it the first few times I played it, I couldn’t read particularly well yet and when renting games I used to just play whatever files were on the cart, so I just wandered around getting into battles not really understanding what was going on but I managed to have a blast regardless and rented it more than once. I vividly remember being in an area with the Chained Kong enemies and thinking how crazy it was that Bowser was a good guy in this game and DK was a villain. I also thought the Mega Man looking dude with the gun hand seemed pretty cool, I think that’s the general consensus

 

[AugustusB]

Oh Blockbuster. Pour one out for simpler times!

In all seriousness though...I think I got it. So the rule of 6 and what our resident fatman said earlier makes me think of a certain possibility.

The next 3 fighters are Namco, Capcom and Square-Enix. They have costumes not used up yet. We could see a scenario where Namco rep is announced at VGA, but what character could bring the hype? Heihachi seems like that kind of pick.

Now let's say it's not Namco next and Geno (square) is not next...then Capcom could be it. What character could bring the hype? I always wanted to see what Sakurai could do with this one...Dante. Big hype energy! Or Phoenix Wright for the WOW factor. Honestly, Capcom has a lot of those kind of picks.


EDIT: Oh uhhhh...Super Mario Bros was my first Mario game. The one that was a bundle of that and Duck Hunt.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, I was born a couple months before SSB64 released in Europe, so I'm also a boomer.

"Honorary boomer award" goes to you, my friend. Wear it with pride.

I remember getting Super Mario Bros. 3 brand new off the shelf for my 4th birthday. Honestly all of my early memories are video game related, anymore.

If you need me, I'll be over here in the retirement home with the rest of our "approaching 30" members.


... speaking of boomer picks... does Dig Dug have a spirit? He just suddenly crossed my mind as a possible #5.

 

[Grumbo]

Alright what on earth is happening?
A cut character may be #6 and/or 7?

My first thought is chorus kids, and some say Geno (please). Does anyone remember those datamined character files right after Ultimate came out? I swear I remember a list of all the characters in the code, but a number got skipped in the Ultimate newcomers. I cant for the life of me find this though. Who could that have been? My original thought was Isaac since his AT felt rushed, but that sounds too good to be true

 

[AugustusB]

"Honorary boomer award" goes to you, my friend. Wear it with pride.

I remember getting Super Mario Bros. 3 brand new off the shelf for my 4th birthday. Honestly all of my early memories are video game related, anymore.

If you need me, I'll be over here in the retirement home with the rest of our "approaching 30" members.


... speaking of boomer picks... does Dig Dug have a spirit? He just suddenly crossed my mind as a possible #5.

Dig dug doesn't have a Spirit...that would be kind of hype.

 

[Malo Mart]

An idea I’ve bounced around my head is which assist trophies have “movesets”, and which ones have characters in their home series that could replace them. For example, Shadow is basically a Stopwatch item, so he most likely doesn’t have a lot of resources. But Isaac has moves and a hurt box. Bomberman, Waluigi, and Shovel Knight have running and grabbed animations. So they have a lot more stuff in place. And then to the second part, who could be replaced? The idea of just “turning their assist trophy off” when a character is chosen never say right with me, like having an item that just turns off when a specific character is out. So instead, what if they added, say, Isaac and replaced his assist with Felix or Matthew? Though maybe that added work just emphasizes how unlikely assist upgrades are...

That has crossed my mind too, though I was always more fond of the "turning off their assist trophy" idea. It just seems a bit excessive to me having to created whole new models, voicelines, maybe a few animations etc. just to be able to replace a character that appears randomly from a pool of others in a single item which itself only appears randomly in a match. I mean, I would rather have that, but if I had to say if I could see that happening or not, ehhh... but you're right that having to come up with workarounds like that doesn't do any favors to characters trapped inside ATs

That helps a little, but I’m actually old enough to have played Super Mario RPG when it was on Blockbuster shelves, y’know, the game that inspired this novel-length thread XD

If it helps a bit more, one of the main reasons I became a Smash and Nintendo fan was because I had the privilege to play Super Mario World on an OG SNES when I was really young. Not for long, but enough to leave an impact. Though from there I grew up and made nostalgic memories out of playing more recent Nintendo games like NSMB and now the existential crisis must be kicking in again

 

[Spatulo]

"Honorary boomer award" goes to you, my friend. Wear it with pride.

I remember getting Super Mario Bros. 3 brand new off the shelf for my 4th birthday. Honestly all of my early memories are video game related, anymore.

If you need me, I'll be over here in the retirement home with the rest of our "approaching 30" members.


... speaking of boomer picks... does Dig Dug have a spirit? He just suddenly crossed my mind as a possible #5.

Back in my day, vidya games came in big plastic rectangles and ya had to blow on em to make em work! (My first Mario game was either World or Kart, unless DKC counts as a Mario game)

Dude if the Namco rep is Dig Dug I’d be so happy, they could even use his crazy Namco x Capcom design

 

[Griselda]

I suppose I'm in that odd place where most older consoles were before my time and the Gamecube was my era and the first console I properly 'owned'... but for several years before that the NES was the only console I played on, and was my first proper interaction with video games.

 

[Rohanx17]

and ya had to blow on em to make em work!

This is a phenomenon that I'm sad will be lost in future generations. I'll admit I've blown on my switch cartridges more than once put of habit.

 

[Deleted member]

Back in my day, vidya games came in big plastic rectangles and ya had to blow on em to make em work! (My first Mario game was either World or Kart, unless DKC counts as a Mario game)

Dude if the Namco rep is Dig Dug I’d be so happy, they could even use his crazy Namco x Capcom design

No way, you use the Super NES Cleaning Kit that was bundled with your SNES to get them to work!

Also knowing Sakurai, we'd get Dig Dug exactly as he appeared on the cabinet. All the way down to the funky angles.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

deleted

my bad its a mod

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

On who else can be upgraded aside from Geno, I think Rayman is a strong candidate. Ubisoft and Nintendo are on extremely solid terms. Negotiations would be easy. It's a bit surprising they aren't represented as a fighter yet. Isn't it that Ubisoft sent the model themselves for the Smash 4 trophy? I feel like he could be a potential upgrade

Rayman is number 2 for me so I hope Nintendo thinks like you do! At least in this particular instance...I can't speak for the rest of your thoughts.

 

[Rohanx17]

we have something new

https://gamebanana.com/gamefiles/8839

a popo and nana type of character

FP5 might be a duo like the ice climbers is where this is going

can you elaborate a little more? Also if it was removed in 6.0 how did we find it and why didn't we know about it before?

Updated after I posted, just ignore

 

[Ovaltine]

Just remember to take a lot of what's being said atm with a grain of salt. A lot of it is very uncertain and also speculative.

With that said, the Mii costume thing is insanely suspicious with the timing of DLC. That and the Mallow/Smithy/Chocobo leak is where my sights are set on.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

There's been plenty of rumblings on the inside regarding who and what the post-Pass DLC characters are, but have there been any rumblings about how the post-Pass DLC characters will be handled? Will they come in a Fighters Pass again, or in a different format? Will they be revealed gradually like with this current Pass, or will they all be revealed at once ahead of time?

 

[Antho]

This is way too specific... To clarify my low hanging fruit comment, Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy were the first DLC to work with because they had assets from the past to work with. I think 6 and 7 will be the same: assets either from this game or in the past that were either in or cut at some point in development.

I'm late to this, but I'd be so excited if this turns out true and eventually turns out to be a Rhythm Heaven rep. The only characters I really want left are Geno, a RH rep, and Waluigi (and I also want Shadow, Phoenix Wright and Doomguy) so if I'm able to get two of my most wanted characters that'd be great.

 

[MondoMega]

Does anyone remember those datamined character files right after Ultimate came out? I swear I remember a list of all the characters in the code, but a number got skipped in the Ultimate newcomers. I cant for the life of me find this though. Who could that have been? My original thought was Isaac since his AT felt rushed, but that sounds too good to be true

I can answer this one!

The victory theme filenames skipped over a number between Incineroar and Inkling; but Piranha Plant filled in that spot in 2.0.0. Just more proof that the Plant was planned to be a base roster fighter, but got moved to DLC due to time constraints.

If you're curious about the full order of Ultimate newcomers, it goes:

z90_f_shizue (Isabelle)
z91_f_gaogaen (Incineroar)
z92_f_packun (Piranha Plant)
z93_f_inkling
z94_f_ridley
z95_f_krool
z96_f_simon
z97a_f_jack_p5 (Joker)
z97b_f_jack_p4
z97c_f_jack_p3
z98_f_brave (Hero)
z99_f_buddy (Banjo & Kazooie)
zz01_f_dolly (Terry)

Isabelle, Incineroar and Piranha Plant are first because they reuse victory themes from other fighters; Inkling, Ridley and K. Rool are next as original first-party compositions, and Simon is last in the base roster because third-parties are always sorted last in victory theme order.

 

[PatPrime]

If Doom Slayer does happen to get in around E3 at the earliest, then man the wait will seriously be agonnizing. I hope he is Fighter 6 or 7.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Frogger is FP5 y'all. It's obvious. Even my dad recognizes him.

 

[Griselda]

Just remember to take a lot of what's being said atm with a grain of salt. A lot of it is very uncertain and also speculative.

With that said, the Mii costume thing is insanely suspicious with the timing of DLC. That and the Mallow/Smithy/Chocobo leak is where my sights are set on.

I'm still waiting to see that Smithy costume. It seems like it'd either be terrible, or the best thing ever, depending on how they did it. I hope it isn't just his head on top of the Mii's head, honestly.

Also, this isn't related, but.. last night I dreamed that I found out you were one of the developers on the Virtual Boy, and that you'd managed to push the system to its limits and create a PS1-quality survival horror game. But it was never released because it used early motion controls that didn't work out. I remember thinking that I'd come here to congratulate you for the project even if it was unreleased, and then I woke up.

 

[Firox]

On the last episode of "**** Fatman said Today:"

-Can confirm that Sabi's source said no Geno or Doom Guy for #5.

-Doom Guy has only been a serious part of the conversation for about a week now. If he's coming, I wouldn't count on him until E3 at the earliest.

-"The Power of 6" Mii costume theory is pretty solid based on what I know.

-My theory is that 6 and 7 will be characters with leftover assets from Ultimate and Smash 4 since Season 2 was supposedly just decided around E3.

-No serious talk has been had about Sora but a lot of people agree he's probably coming eventually anyways due to his popularity. Basically wins the "Nintendo would probably run across a minefield to get for Smash" award.

-Ryu's suspect with two points being made is that Capcom and Team Ninja hate working together and how often the name comes up with nothing substantial tied to it. Personally gives me deja vu of Steve.

-Personally believe that #5 comes down to two characters on the hypothetical list or a curve ball no one has heard yet. Based on the fact that two of Sabi's bigger sources seemingly already know who it is, it's probably one from the list.

-Based on the hypothetical list, don't expect a ton of NPC promotions or first/second party.

-Don't expect any characters created after Joker/Luminary either (so around the 2017 mark I think).

I think that covers everything.

Thanks, Fatman. This is a great summary of juicy info. Funny that my theory turned out correct that fighter #5 WOULDN'T end up being Geno or Doomslayer based on the fact that Sabi's source "doubting" the Cacomallow leak could only mean as such. All in all, I still think Geno and Doomslayer are looking good for FP#2. The real question still stands, who the **** is fighter #5? It doesn't sound like Ryu or Crash are likely.

 

[A.G.L.]

You know you guys forgot something

Heihachi costume missing.

Patricually the fighter pass that would easily have him with street fighter style pack


So maybe it’s him who’s pack 5.

Here’s an interesting thought. I know many are saying Lloyd for Bandai Namco because of his popularity and we just got a fighting game character.

However, we got two JRPG characters back to back with Joker and Hero. So whose to say we cannot get two fighting game characters back to back. With Terry and someone from Tekken. It is not out of the realm of possibility. I agree Heihachi has a good shot, or if not him then Jin.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Thanks, Fatman. This is a great summary of juicy info. Funny that my theory turned out correct that fighter #5 WOULDN'T end up being Geno or Doomslayer based on the fact that Sabi's source "doubting" the Cacomallow leak could only mean as such. All in all, I still think Geno and Doomslayer are looking good for FP#2. The real question still stands, who the **** is fighter #5? It doesn't sound like Ryu or Crash are likely.

"No Geno, no Doom Guy, no Ryu, no Crash, and no Tracer" for #5 to summarize what Sabi has gotten back from 3 of their bigger sources including the NoA source.

 

[Datboigeno]

Just for fun, what are your guys' mains? I'm not super competitive with Smash, but I do play without items and I do play more characters than is typically seen.

I started playing Smash at a younger age in Brawl. I played these characters: and (didn't know he was op).

In Smash 4, I remained playing as Pikachu and Meta Knight, but I also added: and

Then, when Ultimate came out, I added these lovely lads: and and


My best characters are probably Pikachu (+ Pichu) and Joker, with Olimar and Sonic close behind. I know that people typically only have one or two mains, but I just have gravitated to these guys over the years and don't want to give them up. I chose Pikachu in Brawl since I tried other characters and he felt the best to me as a youngin' (plus I, of course, knew him since I played Pokémon lol), and Meta Knight I just played because he looked awesome. I didn't really know Kirby at the time.

In Smash 4, I picked up Sonic because I've always liked the series (no matter how bad and cheesy it gets), and he felt better in Smash 4 than in Brawl. Olimar I picked up because I fell in love with the Pikmin franchise at the time thanks to Pikmin 3 (where is Pikmin 4...).

And lastly, Ultimate I picked Pichu because I had played Pikachu my whole Smash life, and I was probably gonna play Pichu regardless (though luckily he wasn't a joke like he was in Melee, so I actually play as him a bit as opposed to if he were a joke). Ridley I picked up because I fell in love with Metroid at the end of the Wii U's life (thanks Prime Trilogy) and I had always heard the cries for Ridley (even without me following speculation). I usually hate heavyweights that aren't quicker, but I somehow like Ridley a lot. Albeit I play him more casually, but still, I didn't expect to like him more than a casual distraction at times (like Incineroar for me). Now Joker is interesting, as I began to hear about Persona 5 right before his reveal. I was somewhat interested, but became fully into the idea of playing Persona when Joker stole his invite into Smash! *sigh* Man, I really want to play Persona 5, 4, and 3 (yes I'm a casual). So I guess while I wait to play Persona 5, Joker in Smash is my only alternative.

Don't really think anyone cares about any of this, but I just felt like typing in this out.

For Ultimate I have been maining Megaman since pretty much near its release. I mained Mewtwo in melee and planned to for Ultimate as well but Megaman just really clicked with me. I never got to play as him prior because I haven’t actually played Smash 4 despite Megaman being my most wanted in Brawl so Ultimate is my first taste and imo he’s great. Very fun character to play as and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I’ve played Megaman games since I was 5. His movement and abilities just feel very natural to me. I’m happy because I finally got into Elite Smash with him this week which was a goal of mine and also today played in the big SSBU Open online tournament and got 78/434 players. Didn’t make the cutoff for the finals (that was top 32) but still I think that was alright considering I was playing on handheld mode instead of using my pro controller. I’m really hoping Geno ends up playing similarly to Megaman so it’s a smooth transition for me.