Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[SpiritOfRuin]

So what’s your guys’ favorite Mario RPG? Mine is Paper Mario: TTYD.

(hint: no, you don’t have to have SMRPG as your fav. game to like Geno and want him in Smash.)

SMRPG is one of my favorite games of all time not just of Mario RPGs or even Mario games as a whole. The only other Mario game that comes close to how special the game was for me is the original Luigi's Mansion. Paper Mario on the N64, Mario Strikers, and Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story and Dream Team also definitely deserve an honorable mention though.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, not to be bias or anything, but SMRPG is still the best in my eyes. It had an epic soundtrack, awesome characters, great animations and really cool bad guys. I've played the Mario & Luigi ones, and even though they're fun, I like having my RPGs with more than just two guys in a party. As for the Paper Mario series, they were also fun, and I know the whole 2D thing was supposed to be "stylistic" and all, but I always just saw it as one of Nintendo's many excuses for going skimp on the graphics. I know graphics aren't everything, and they still make some games with amazing graphics (Mario Galaxy, Odyssey, 3D World, etc.), but it's kinda irked me for a while now how Nintendo has done every trick in the book to compensate for their chronically under-powered hardware. Cell shading, "Yarn" and "Paper" being among them. Part of what made SMRPG so amazing was what they were able to pull off with just sprites.

The N64 was better at rendering environments than the PlayStation, though, which is why there was less fog in Mega Man Legends (Mega Man 64) when ported to the N64. The only under-powered hardware the N64 was using was the cartridges that cost Nintendo so dearly. I never thought of the "paper" as a way to cut corners on graphics... or any of the arts and crafts stuff that came after it. Those textures are pretty close to the real deal.

 

[Firox]

The N64 was better at rendering environments than the PlayStation, though, which is why there was less fog in Mega Man Legends (Mega Man 64) when ported to the N64. The only under-powered hardware the N64 was using was the cartridges that cost Nintendo so dearly. I never thought of the "paper" as a way to cut corners on graphics... or any of the arts and crafts stuff that came after it. Those textures are pretty close to the real deal.

I admit that the new Yoshi's Crafted World has some delightfully creative and very crisp textures, but I still felt like the "yarn" thing in general was a sort of cop out. If it had only been for Yoshi, I might have bought it as entirely stylistic, but when they "yarnified" Kirby too, I started to see through the veneer. As for the whole paper thing, I still think it was a somewhat cheap way to go, however I also have to concede that it was ingenious how they embraced the concept and used it to interact with 3D environments, slipping sideways between surfaces and such. They still get an A+ for cleverness in that regard.

 

[Deleted member]

I admit that the new Yoshi's Crafted World has some delightfully creative and very crisp textures, but I still felt like the "yarn" thing in general was a sort of cop out. If it had only been for Yoshi, I might have bought it as entirely stylistic, but when they "yarnified" Kirby too, I started to see through the veneer. As for the whole paper thing, I still think it was a somewhat cheap way to go, however I also have to concede that it was ingenious how they embraced the concept and used it to interact with 3D environments, slipping sideways between surfaces and such. They still get an A+ for cleverness in that regard.

funny that they kind of didn't bother really making note of the fact that the characters are literally paper living in a 3D world until Thousand Year Door, yet I think the game has less charm. Maybe that's one of the reasons, now that I think about it.

The first Paper Mario opens up as someone reading a story book, and the only time they really poked fun at the paper aspect was for Kammy to be literally taped into the book to change how it went. It made a ton of sense for the game to be made of paper and look like it was drawn with a marker. Thousand Year Door, with the crisp edges and lines on everything just felt off. If it hadn't been for just how nuts the game went with objects on screen, background conversations during cutscenes, and other neat stuff, I'd agree that it was just a lazy cash in on one of the N64's most memorable titles.

edit: oh, and, Kirby did the yarn first.

 

[Datboigeno]

Honestly if Nintendo/SE were to team-up on an SMRPG remake or sequel and they went for a look in-between the box art and the Link’s Awakening models I think it’d be fantastic.

 

[Heoj]

I know I'm going a bit off topic here, but how likely do you think Super Mario RPG is going to be added to SNES online? And does anyone know when the next few SNES games are going to get added because I heard that they are not adding them every month.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Honestly, I could see Nintendo de-emphasizing Mario RPGs at this stage. It's clear that they don't really know what direction to take them in since the last really solid one was probably Bowser's Inside Story 10 years ago, and they've just all kind of bombed to varying degrees since then. Now that Nintendo actually has a whole host of Japanese developers on board the Switch, with the likes of Square Enix and Atlus even producing some exclusives, and they also have other JRPG series made in house that are trending upward and becoming more mainstream like Xenoblade and Fire Emblem, it just kind of would be the time to take a break from them/retire them. Hell, they've got a Mario SRPG that works if they want to make a Mario + Rabbids follow-up too.

Especially since I think Miyamoto's hard line stance against original Mario characters and push back against their existence has contributed to the overall issues with these titles.

Mario RPGs might just get benched for much of this generation unless they've got some relaunch or attempt at a more traditional one somewhere in development.

Let's not play the "Miyamoto is at fault" game alright? Especially regarding AlphaDream. The only game to not have new characters was Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam and AlphaDream flat out said it was their own decision to do that.

 

[JarBear]

I know I'm going a bit off topic here, but how likely do you think Super Mario RPG is going to be added to SNES online? And does anyone know when the next few SNES games are going to get added because I heard that they are not adding them every month.

Very likely. Also, recall on the direct that Nintendo will not be doing a regular release of games, they will add games randomly essentially.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Let's not play the "Miyamoto is at fault" game alright? Especially regarding AlphaDream. The only game to not have new characters was Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam and AlphaDream flat out said it was their own decision to do that.

Miyamoto is at fault for slowly sucking the life out of Paper Mario for certain. The point is, that he doesn't like unique side characters in the Mario universe and has pushed against more narrative based titles regarding Mario for some time. Even if AlphaDream made that decision, someone with that kind of power over the IP exerting his influence over top of you has to be considered. If you see the literal creator of the character and man with significant power and voice in the company coming down against the other Mario RPGs in certain ways, you as a company with even less pull than Intelligent Systems has, would more or less have to make sure your game didn't do anything to jeopardize your own company. There doesn't have to be implicit demands from up high, pressure from a place of authority can come in more subtle ways that influence your decision making.

I love Miyamoto and a lot of what he's done. But he's always been controlling of his works. Sometimes that is good, sometimes that is bad, but it has undoubtedly been part of the downfall of Mario RPG titles at multiple points in their history.

 

[Sour Supreme]

I think SMRPG comes to Switch for sure. Also I know I'm late but sad to hear about Alpha Dream. I was never big on M&L but I did play Superstar Saga. Fawful is such a good character. Super Mario RPG no doubt my favorite Mario RPG, dethroned only by Thousand Year Door, depending on the day.

 

[GenoToto]

So what’s your guys’ favorite Mario RPG? Mine is Paper Mario: TTYD.

This is a difficult question, because there are a good handful of top-quality RPG games throughout the Mario series' history, and I've played the better part of all of them.

I could say that Mario RPG is my favorite, considering the history I have with the game, the style of the gameplay and the visuals, the music, the quirky enemy design, and the fact that it was the first Mario game to establish such a vast expanse of genuine worldbuilding that we had never seen before. The game did a lot, and I still come back to it pretty frequently.

But then, Paper Mario on the N64 is a good entry, too. The first RPG entry for Mario on the Nintendo 64, with a cute, 2D visual style against a sprawling 3D overworld, more worldbuilding to go off of, and such an ambitious little title considering the console it was designed for. It introduced a new way to fight with the debut of the partner system, and certainly made the journey more exciting when you never knew just who was going to join the party next. And then, of course, Thousand Year Door comes along to even further expand upon what was already established from the previous game, and the adventure seems even more expansive than the last, with new partners, new locations, new enemies, and much more. Easily one of the best Gamecube titles on the platform.

And, of course, there is the illustrious Mario & Luigi series, a series with a wonderful art design, charming stories, and lots of lovely music, as is par for the course. The best one of the bunch, for me, is probably either Superstar Saga, or Bowser's Inside Story. Both have a wonderfully creative story to tell, with new and unique gameplay styles that fit both of them nicely. Dream Team has a special place in my heart, too, for all of the added whimsy and quirkiness of having a Luigi Army, which I still find quite funny.

It's a hard call to make. I think, at the end of the day, My personal favorite would probably have to be Super Mario RPG, although, Thousand Year Door comes very close. I'd say those two were probably tied for the top in my mind.

 

[Ovaltine]

I think SMRPG comes to Switch for sure. Also I know I'm late but sad to hear about Alpha Dream. I was never big on M&L but I did play Superstar Saga. Fawful is such a good character. Super Mario RPG no doubt my favorite Mario RPG, dethroned only by Thousand Year Door, depending on the day.

There are way too many P's in this post for someone with a Doopliss icon.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Very likely. Also, recall on the direct that Nintendo will not be doing a regular release of games, they will add games randomly essentially.

How likely it is depends a great deal on how willing to play ball Square Enix is with Nintendo Switch Online. Nintendo has kind of struggled to get third parties on board with NSO (or just haven't really found it to be all that worthwhile of an investment), so Square Enix coming to the service would be kind of a big deal. Though I'm inclined to say that Square Enix is just more interested in their own re-releases then having their titles be part of a Subscription Service.

 

[Deleted member]

Miyamoto is at fault for slowly sucking the life out of Paper Mario for certain. The point is, that he doesn't like unique side characters in the Mario universe and has pushed against more narrative based titles regarding Mario for some time. Even if AlphaDream made that decision, someone with that kind of power over the IP exerting his influence over top of you has to be considered. If you see the literal creator of the character and man with significant power and voice in the company coming down against the other Mario RPGs in certain ways, you as a company with even less pull than Intelligent Systems has, would more or less have to make sure your game didn't do anything to jeopardize your own company. There doesn't have to be implicit demands from up high, pressure from a place of authority can come in more subtle ways that influence your decision making.

I love Miyamoto and a lot of what he's done. But he's always been controlling of his works. Sometimes that is good, sometimes that is bad, but it has undoubtedly been part of the downfall of Mario RPG titles at multiple points in their history.

Do...

Do we actually agree on something here?

Miracles like this can only mean one thing:

I'm thinking he's in.

I know I'm going a bit off topic here, but how likely do you think Super Mario RPG is going to be added to SNES online? And does anyone know when the next few SNES games are going to get added because I heard that they are not adding them every month.

If it ends up coming to SNES Online then we might as well go ahead and party because it confirms Geno, hands down. I guess third parties get some percentage of the sales of stuff like the SNES Mini, so there's some incentive for them to license the games for it, but for the NES and SNES Online apps... I'm not so sure. Konami and Capcom sure seem on board, but at the same time, some really obvious games are missing. SquareEnix is the sort of company that I'm sure would have some interest in getting money out of the interaction, but it could be argued that proceeds from a certain Smash Bros DLC character could be the payment...

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Let's not play the "Miyamoto is at fault" game alright? Especially regarding AlphaDream. The only game to not have new characters was Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam and AlphaDream flat out said it was their own decision to do that.

It's not just m&l. It's paper Mario too.

 

[ZelDan]

I actually liked Dream team overall and even liked it more than PiT and BiS (never played paper jam so can't compare to that). my biggest gripe with Dream Team were the ****ty gyro controls that made the last couple giant battles way more frustrating than they should have been. It would have been nice if Bowser wasn't the final boss too but meh, the Bowser fight was cool and the antasma fight beforehand was cool so it's not really that big of a deal to me *shrug*. Superstar Saga is still the best M&L though.

Also speaking of Dream team I do love the regular battle themes in that game. one awesome thing is that the real and dream battle themes do actually go well together:

I almost feel like it was intentional...

 

[Sour Supreme]

There are way too many P's in this post for someone with a Doopliss icon.

I suppose I snagged it out of the well, lol. The Twilight Town Chapter is damn near my favorite. Glitz Pit barely takes the cake.

I feel like The Thousand Year Door had just the right amount of Mario source material, honestly. The settings are pretty out there.

I love Paper Mario N64 but as a follow up to the lunacy that is Super Mario RPG I feel it falls short slightly as far as story telling goes.

 

[StarLight42]

I still think Paper Jam is one of the biggest missed oppurtunities in gaming history.

A team up of Fawful and Dimentio would’ve been incredible.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Does his head look better like this?

 

[ARandomZoomer]

I've kinda felt that Paper Jam saw its loss in characters as an adaptation, so to speak, of being a crossover with the Paper Mario series which itself was no longer making unique characters for its games. If unique characters were added on the M&L side it would make PM look relatively more barren. If PM added counterparts to those added characters then people would only be reminded of the lack of unique characters in Color Splash which released later the same year (in America at least)

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

View attachment 240550

Does his head look better like this?

Much better!

I've kinda felt that Paper Jam saw its loss in characters as an adaptation, so to speak, of being a crossover with the Paper Mario series which itself was no longer making unique characters for its games. If unique characters were added on the M&L side it would make PM look relatively more barren. If PM added counterparts to those added characters then people would only be reminded of the lack of unique characters in Color Splash which released later the same year (in America at least)

If your design philosophy revolves around "oh gosh, we'd better not remind people that we used to have fun and memorable original characters in these games" then it was never a good design philosophy to begin with

 

[Sour Supreme]

I never gave Paper Jam or Color Splash a chance, even a try. Super Paper Mario led the series away from traditional RPG roots, which was, okay to say the least. It still managed to achieve feats in character design and story building, then even that seemed to be abandoned moving forward with the franchise.

If they dare release another Paper Mario, I sure as hell hope its a return to form.

Question: I'd love to hear who some of y'alls favorite Mario RPG partners are. I'm sure Geno is on a lot of your lists, obviously. Ignoring the doll face wonder, I love

Mallow
Admiral Bobbery
& Watt

 

[AugustusB]

As others have brought up, I do think the developers/programmers/designers, etc will get picked up by Nintendo. I am more curious if any other companies would offer them a job. Imagine Square-Enix picking up the old crew....your reaction?

EDIT: Its tough to say what my favorite was....it is a tie between TTYD and Super Paper Mario.

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

Mario and Luigi Dream Team is the best in the series sorry i don't make the rules

(although Bowser's Inside story is basically my childhood along with Pokemon Black)

 

[Dukefire]

I say that M&L Superstar Saga is better for me. Still own the GBA original version.

 

[Ovaltine]

I never gave Paper Jam or Color Splash a chance, even a try. Super Paper Mario led the series away from traditional RPG roots, which was, okay to say the least. It still managed to achieve feats in character design and story building, then even that seemed to be abandoned moving forward with the franchise.

If they dare release another Paper Mario, I sure as hell hope its a return to form.

Question: I'd love to hear who some of y'alls favorite Mario RPG partners are. I'm sure Geno is on a lot of your lists, obviously. Ignoring the doll face wonder, I love

Mallow
Admiral Bobbery
& Watt

Mallow, Parakarry, and Bobbery, hands down. Vivian is a strong runner-up, though.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Mallow, Parakarry, and Bobbery, hands down. Vivian is a strong runner-up, though.

Someone of taste, I see. Bobbery is such a badass, maybe the most so other than Geno. Baby Yoshi gets an honorable shout out as always.

Mario and Luigi Dream Team is the best in the series sorry i don't make the rules

(although Bowser's Inside story is basically my childhood along with Pokemon Black)

Weird. My childhood was Thousand Year Door and Emerald. Generational **** right there.

 

[Deleted member]

I never gave Paper Jam or Color Splash a chance, even a try. Super Paper Mario led the series away from traditional RPG roots, which was, okay to say the least. It still managed to achieve feats in character design and story building, then even that seemed to be abandoned moving forward with the franchise.

If they dare release another Paper Mario, I sure as hell hope its a return to form.

Question: I'd love to hear who some of y'alls favorite Mario RPG partners are. I'm sure Geno is on a lot of your lists, obviously. Ignoring the doll face wonder, I love

Mallow
Admiral Bobbery
& Watt

Kooper, Bow, Bobbery...

and if we can count him as a partner (which why shouldn't we?!) Prince Peasley... He... uh, he definitely helped.

 

[Deleted member]

I never gave Paper Jam or Color Splash a chance, even a try. Super Paper Mario led the series away from traditional RPG roots, which was, okay to say the least. It still managed to achieve feats in character design and story building, then even that seemed to be abandoned moving forward with the franchise.

If they dare release another Paper Mario, I sure as hell hope its a return to form.

Question: I'd love to hear who some of y'alls favorite Mario RPG partners are. I'm sure Geno is on a lot of your lists, obviously. Ignoring the doll face wonder, I love

Mallow
Admiral Bobbery
& Watt

Mallow
Vivian
Admiral Bobbery

Honerable mentions go to: Koops, Kooper, Goombella and Flurrie.

 

[UberMadman]

I don’t have much to contribute other than to say that I hope Nintendo bails out Alpha Dream or helps their employees find work elsewhere. And I certainly hope Nintendo doesn’t use this as an excuse to abandon the Mario RPGs entirely. What a sad day.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Kooper, Bow, Bobbery...

and if we can count him as a partner (which why shouldn't we?!) Prince Peasley... He... uh, he definitely helped.

If Peasley is in the running, I forgot to mention the greatest partner of all time, Flavio. (Who can incidentally be glitched into your party for the entire duration of the game.)

 

[Firox]

Weird. My childhood was Thousand Year Door and Emerald. Generational **** right there.

Mine was the original Gold and Silver with SMRPG. I just had a funny idea: speaking of generational ****, I wonder if I can deduce someone's age by their "childhood" games.

If you're TYD and Emerald, I'm guessing 25 to 30? Am I warm?

(although Bowser's Inside story is basically my childhood along with Pokemon Black)

Let's see, for Black and Bowser's inside story, maybe 20 to 25?

 

[Sour Supreme]

Mine was the original Gold and Silver with SMRPG. I just had a funny idea: speaking of generational ****, I wonder if I can deduce someone's age by their "childhood" games.

If you're TYD and Emerald, I'm guessing 25 to 30? Am I warm?



Let's see, for Black and Bowser's inside story, maybe 20 to 25?

You're sort of warm, aha. I will say that having an older brother around meant I experienced many games through and with him, so they went on to be very important to me despite me being more capable of comprehending and completing games on my own later on.

I'm only 20. Barely missed out on the N64 era and didn't revisit many of those games and prior until much later. When I was born, there was no umbilical cord, just a Gamecube Controller plugged into my belly button.

Edit: As a funny anecdote, me and my brother weren't allowed to have Melee cause it was rated T for Teen. We had borrowed a copy from our neighbor and hid it from our mother for months. Obviously my brother got older but the first T rated game I ever bought on my home was indeed Brawl. The Game was pending as an E rated game when I preordered it. Parents couldn't really strip me of the experience when we went to pick it up and found out otherwise, lol.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

If your design philosophy revolves around "oh gosh, we'd better not remind people that we used to have fun and memorable original characters in these games" then it was never a good design philosophy to begin with

Perhaps, though the thought I'm mean to get across is that Paper Mario and M&L are made by two different companies even if the contents are still owned by Nintendo and to not look like they're trying to outdo the other company, Alpha Dream toned themselves down

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I say that M&L Superstar Saga is better for me. Still own the GBA original version.

Me too but my save data is corrupted... ;^(

 

[Zinith]

I never gave Paper Jam or Color Splash a chance, even a try. Super Paper Mario led the series away from traditional RPG roots, which was, okay to say the least. It still managed to achieve feats in character design and story building, then even that seemed to be abandoned moving forward with the franchise.

If they dare release another Paper Mario, I sure as hell hope its a return to form.

Question: I'd love to hear who some of y'alls favorite Mario RPG partners are. I'm sure Geno is on a lot of your lists, obviously. Ignoring the doll face wonder, I love

Mallow
Admiral Bobbery
& Watt

Yoshi Kid

............come to think of it, that's the ONLY Yoshi partner in all the RPGs (no I don't count the summonable Yoshi in SMRPG). That's a travesty!!!

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

I'm late to this party but my favorite is Super Paper Mario. I know, I know, that one is the black sheep of the Mario RPG series because it isn't really an rpg but it was so compelling to me and the characters were awesome. (Even if years later, it would be remastered by Toby Fox . Seriously though, the similarities between some of the characters and concepts are unbelievably similar on a number of grounds)

I just wish Tippi and Count Bleck coulda come back somehow.. That ending was as depressing as Murphy promising Rayman 4.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Question: I'd love to hear who some of y'alls favorite Mario RPG partners are. I'm sure Geno is on a lot of your lists, obviously. Ignoring the doll face wonder, I love

Mallow
Admiral Bobbery
& Watt

Discounting Geno, though I like most of the other partners. Lady Bow's my next favorite. I also like the Goomba allies and after that, there's no real order

 

[False Sense]

My favorite Mario RPG's probably Thousand-Year Door. Favorite partners would probably be Geno, Mallow, Bow, and especially Vivian.

Can you tell I'm a sucker for magic users?

Also honorable mention to Princess Peach in the Paper Mario series. Even when she's not a direct party member, she gets a lot of great moments (her bizarre Beauty and the Beast relationship with Tec is, like, weirdly sweet).

 

[Sour Supreme]

I'm late to this party but my favorite is Super Paper Mario. I know, I know, that one is the black sheep of the Mario RPG series because it isn't really an rpg but it was so compelling to me and the characters were awesome. (Even if years later, it would be remastered by Toby Fox . Seriously though, the similarities between some of the characters and concepts are unbelievably similar on a number of grounds)

I just wish Tippi and Count Bleck coulda come back somehow.. That ending was as depressing as Murphy promising Rayman 4.

Don't get me started man. I miss the 3D Rayman Platformers with all of my heart. Those goddamn Rabbids...

My favorite Mario RPG's probably Thousand-Year Door. Favorite partners would probably be Geno, Mallow, Bow, and especially Vivian.

Can you tell I'm a sucker for magic users?

Also honorable mention to Princess Peach in the Paper Mario series. Even when she's not a direct party member, she gets a lot of great moments (her bizarre Beauty and the Beast relationship with Tec is, like, weirdly sweet).

While I liked the Princess Peach sequences there were a few times I felt they dragged down the game's pace too much. I stopped feeling that way when I replayed it as an older individual though.