Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[StarLight42]

Well, I for one love the M&L series because anything besides the boring a** "narratives" of mainline Mario is great.

Seriously speaking though, as if I wasn't already, the M&L games, in my opinion, are worthy successors to SMRPG. They have personality, charm, and owo, what's this? A UNIQUE GAMEPLAY MECHANIC THAT MAKES IT GOOD!? SIGN ME UP! The original characters like Popple, Fawful, and so many others were great additions to Mario's story and it actually really frustrates me how under appreciated they are. Just like SMRPG.

These games may not be a personal favorite to you guys but it is WAY better than a good 80% of the "quality games" the Mario series shells out every year.

The problem is that the latest games in the series (Dream Team, Paper Jam) threw out the originality that made the old games so great. I think Bowser was the final boss in Dream Team and Paper Jam had like, NO original characters at ALL

I also hated the way the Superstar Saga remake homogenized the character designs

 

[Deleted member]

The problem is that the latest games in the series (Dream Team, Paper Jam) threw out the originality that made the old games so great. I think Bowser was the final boss in Dream Team and Paper Jam had like, NO original characters at ALL

I also hated the way the Superstar Saga remake homogenized the character designs

Paper Mario got its grubby hands on the series and rotted away all the charm. Or Miyamoto, one of the two.

 

[Firox]

I can't really agree with this. I don't believe you can just say you are a fan of something and thus be a fan. The proof is in the pudding.

I can say I'm a can of Cheese Whiz or an Abominable Snowman, but as much as I say I am, I am clearly not. As much as some people hate it, this applies to more abstract things as well, like 'being a fan' of something. You cannot be a fan of something just because you like it. It's a bit more than that.

Merriam-Webster defines the word fan as 'an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sporting event or a performing art) usually as a spectator' and 'an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit)'. You'll notice something here, and that is terms like 'enthusiastic' or 'ardent', which can be connected zealous, fervent...or, what I like to call, 'OOMPH!' Being a fan means that you bring that 'OOMPH!' to whatever it is you like. You don't just say 'Yeah, I kinda like this show...I guess I'm a fan'; you would be more likely to say 'Dude, I am a HUGE fan of this show, we HAVE to watch this together. You won't BELIEVE how awesome it is!' There is a reason why the word fan spawns from fanatic...

Let me give you a better explanation in my own terms: investment.

Have you ever noticed that when you kind of like something you really couldn't care one way or they other about what happens, but when you are a FAN you occasionally go a bit to far with how you feel? That's the difference between something that matters and something that doesn't; that is the difference investment makes.

Take for example Game of Thrones. Someone who merely likes GoT wouldn't care too much about Season 8 being garbage. 'Eh, they could have done better here or there I think, but it is what it is.' Does that sound like a fan to you? Or do all the videos and posts on social media going absolutely ballistic and picking apart all the issues and being upset at the writers sound like fans to you? Sure, they may have responded in ways you think were going too far, but they did that BECAUSE THEY WERE FANS. They didn't merely like GoT: it was their favorite show that they talked about with their friends every day. They scheduled their time around watching the new episodes and even re-watching old ones. They named children after the characters. They bought merchandise and followed the cast on social media and...I think my point has been made.

To make this more personal, I found this mobile game recently. It's called Dungeon Tales or something like that. Discount Slay the Spires clone. I played it for a while for a day or two and mentioned it to a buddy of mine who likes deck building games, but I've already taken extended breaks from it to do other things. It's fun, and I like it, but I wouldn't say I'm a Dungeon Tales fan.

...But SMRPG tho?

I mean, look where I am right now! I'm spending time on a forum talking with other people across the states and even the globe who love a singular character from a 23-yr-old game! I listen to the soundtrack frequently and I have a playlist I built dedicated to remixes after already having probably 15 of them in my Favorites on YT. I've livestreamed the game and I play it occasionally even when I don't truly own it but I want to buy a SNES Classic/Switch purely to be able to PLAY the game legitimately. Jesus, I HUM THE MUSIC AT WORK AND IN MY DAILY LIFE! If I could easily find merch I would buy it now that I'm employed (speaking of which, anyone have a link for the Geno Blast shirt from way back? I still want it) and one of my biggest wishes if for Geno to get in Smash, so big that if/when it happens I could actually never ask for anything more from Sakurai ever for the rest of my existence!

Yeah, there is a reason why there are phrases such as 'you aren't a true fan' and the like. Sure, you can be a fan in your own way and you can even be a fan of only a portion of something and not all of it, but you aren't a fan just because you declare it. It will show in your actions.

I do think it's interesting that "fandom" has multiple degrees. You have "die-hard", which are the hardcore devoted ones that have consumed all levels of the given subject. These are typically your human encyclopedias that have dissected the subject and are often offended by any deviation from the source material. Then you have "Moderate", which would be the people that are well versed in MOST of the source material, but aren't as invested as the die-hards. Then you have the "Casuals", who know enough about the subject to realistically enjoy it, but have little investment overall. These are typically the people that like whatever the content creators come up with no matter how stupid. These are the ones that would literally buy a Zelda game even if it were just three hours of staring at a swirly pile of crap just because it has "The Legend of Zelda" in the title. These are the ones that would swear Pokemon walks on water no matter how idiotic Gamefreak decides to be. Are they fans? Of course, but obviously of a far different caliber than those that have invested a lot more time and love into the given subject.

For example: I have a cousin that thinks that Star Wars as a franchise would be a lot funner if they made a movie without a single light saber in it (if you think about it, EVERY SINGLE ONE DOES). He wants ZERO force powers, no Jedi, no Sith, no Skywalkers whatsoever, no Millenium Falcon, no rebels, no evil military regime, and again, no light sabers. My argument is, if you take ALL of that away, then you don't have a freaking Star Wars! Sure the formula is getting kinda old, but without any of those things, you just have a generic Sci-Fi movie with "Star Wars" in the title. Is someone really a fan if they basically hate everything that characterizes a given subject? My point is, being a fan of something is a broad statement and often difficult to deny someone, but saying you're a fan can mean very little when you genuinely don't care in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel bad about the Alphadream employees losing their jobs. It's a shame that they went down with the 3DS. I'm guessing Mario and Luigi is considered a dead franchise now. But if I'm being honest, I lost all interest in that franchise after Dream Team. The game was alright to me but I just kinda stopped caring about the games after I finished it. All of the sense and love that I've had for those games (as well as RPGs overall) are gone, and I can't bring myself to care about them.

Not only is it a shame that Alphadream decided to do this, but it's also a shame that we're never going to see Wario appear in a Mario and Luigi title.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

The problem is that the latest games in the series (Dream Team, Paper Jam) threw out the originality that made the old games so great. I think Bowser was the final boss in Dream Team and Paper Jam had like, NO original characters at ALL

I also hated the way the Superstar Saga remake homogenized the character designs

First, I think Bowser being the final boss of Dream Team was AWESOME. I may have said this before somewhere but it was almost criminal that it took 4 games for him to be the final boss. He got possessed by Cackletta, outshined by the Shroobs, and owned by Fawful. Him betraying Anatasma was the perfect plot twist because at that point, you expected ANATASMA to be the final boss, not Bowser.

Also, elaborate on the homogenized thing please.

 

[SSGuy]

Phase 2 is in the books (I meant to say that)

https://twitter.com/opestarfall/status/1179406385894830083

I cannot thank everyone enough for all the help in getting this organized and set up. Special thanks goes out to Slender Ovaltine J JarBear and Xigger for organizing and setting this up together.

 

[ivanlerma]

I don't understand why some of you are complaining about Dream Team, i thought it was great(despite never finishing it).

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

I don't understand why some of you are complaining about Dream Team, i thought it was great(despite never finishing it).

I agree! It was a good title. Paper Jam though, oh ho, that one is unacceptable.

 

[Ovaltine]

Phase 2 is in the books (I meant to say that)

Of course you did, you actual nerd

Everything's come together so well, and I'm excited to keep campaigning for the Mario RPGs to return to their former glory! The loss of M&L is extremely depressing, but hopefully, Geno in Smash and revisiting SMRPG will be just what the Mario RPG world needs.

 

[BZocky]

I don’t think their closure affects his chances negatively as long as there’s fan demand. If anything I think AlphaDream’s closure would encourage Sakurai to put Geno in Ultimate since hes in a position where he would likely be the first carrying on the legacy of Mario RPGs into the future. It’s a unique opportunity that may never arise again.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

I don’t think their closure affects his chances negatively as long as there’s fan demand. If anything I think AlphaDream’s closure would encourage Sakurai to put Geno in Ultimate since hes in a position where he would be the first carrying on the legacy of Mario RPGs back into the future. It’s a unique opportunity that may never arise again.

It comes full circle... The first RPG comes around at the end of the rpg cycle...


Going back to M&L, I want to say that at this point, any reasonable Mario RPG original character should be in Smash. Geno, Paper Mario, Fawful + Cackletta, all of them make great choices for RPG reps. You have the main protag of PM, a main protag of SMRPG, and a main antag of M&L. I personally see no problem with it. People argue about Mario having too many reps but I think that's because all the reps are from the platformer side of Mario. These RPG reps would spice it up quite a bit, especially Geno, Paper Mario, and Fawful, as ALL THREE could use the timed hit mechanic. Their games are iconic for that idealism in gameplay. All-in-all, I want Geno for the long-time fans but I would also eagerly take Fawful because of his status to the Mario series. He's easily one of the best villains the series has ever had and he's actually been present in THREE games, rather than being a one shot villain with no depth. I will eagerly take both, though it's unlikely

 

[Deleted member]

Is Nintendo of America more influential and closer to Nintendo of Japan than Europe?

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t think their closure affects his chances negatively as long as there’s fan demand. If anything I think AlphaDream’s closure would encourage Sakurai to put Geno in Ultimate since hes in a position where he would likely be the first carrying on the legacy of Mario RPGs into the future. It’s a unique opportunity that may never arise again.

Unless Nintendo/Sakurai knew about the closure ahead of time, that doesn't really speak positively to the amount of time we'll likely be waiting for Geno to be added to Smash, though...

 

[StarLight42]

First, I think Bowser being the final boss of Dream Team was AWESOME. I may have said this before somewhere but it was almost criminal that it took 4 games for him to be the final boss. He got possessed by Cackletta, outshined by the Shroobs, and owned by Fawful. Him betraying Anatasma was the perfect plot twist because at that point, you expected ANATASMA to be the final boss, not Bowser.

Also, elaborate on the homogenized thing please.

Really I shouldn’t need to elaborate
Compare enemies in Superstar Saga to the remake, for example, the Lakipea.

In the original, it only vaguely resembled a Lakitu, with big eyes and secluded in the clouds.

In the remake, they’re just Lakitus with sprouts on their head or something.

A better example might be the Troopea. In the original, they were quadruped koopas with big eyes and a unique personality.

In the remake, bam. Standard ass koopas with a leaf on their head. Bipedal and everything.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

The problem is that the latest games in the series (Dream Team, Paper Jam) threw out the originality that made the old games so great. I think Bowser was the final boss in Dream Team and Paper Jam had like, NO original characters at ALL

I also hated the way the Superstar Saga remake homogenized the character designs

Saying Dream Team threw out originality just by having Bowser as the final boss ain't it chief

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Phase 2 is in the books (I meant to say that)

https://twitter.com/opestarfall/status/1179406385894830083

I cannot thank everyone enough for all the help in getting this organized and set up. Special thanks goes out to Slender Ovaltine J JarBear and Xigger for organizing and setting this up together.

Hot damn, but my logo does look snazzy on a letterhead. This book looks awesome!

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Really I shouldn’t need to elaborate
Compare enemies in Superstar Saga to the remake, for example, the Lakipea.

In the original, it only vaguely resembled a Lakitu, with big eyes and secluded in the clouds.

In the remake, they’re just Lakitus with sprouts on their head or something.

A better example might be the Troopea. In the original, they were quadruped koopas with big eyes and a unique personality.

In the remake, bam. Standard *** koopas with a leaf on their head. Bipedal and everything.

I don't mean to sound rude but that makes no sense. Comparing the two, they look virtually identical. If you mean the art style changed, then yeah, it did. What could you expect? I thought it was going to be something like making the Axem Rangers into Birdos but no, it's a Koopa Troopa with a sprout on its head....being given a graphical update to look like what it was supposed to be in the first place.-_-

Edit: I see where the problem may be from but why does that matter? It's the equivalent of complaining that the crabs from DK didn't appear in it and were replaced with the red crabs Mario games have nowadays

 

[StarLight42]

I don't mean to sound rude but that makes no sense. Comparing the two, they look virtually identical. If you mean the art style changed, then yeah, it did. What could you expect? I thought it was going to be something like making the Axem Rangers into Birdos but no, it's a Koopa Troops with a sprout on its head....being given a graphical update to look like what it was supposed to be in the first place.-_-

No... it’s really not what it was supposed to look like. Or else the original would’ve looked like that to.

They even replaced the unique Mechachomp enemy in the university dungeon with a generic ass mechakoopa

And also replaced one of my favorite characters, Psycho Kamek, with a boring Dr. Toad.

I don’t think you’re seeing things straight here at all

 

[BoyMan]

Phase 2 is in the books (I meant to say that)

https://twitter.com/opestarfall/status/1179406385894830083

I cannot thank everyone enough for all the help in getting this organized and set up. Special thanks goes out to Slender Ovaltine J JarBear and Xigger for organizing and setting this up together.

You all are doing an incredible job with organizing and following through on everything. We're lucky to have you guys and gals.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

No... it’s really not what it was supposed to look like. Or else the original would’ve looked like that to.

They even replaced the unique Mechachomp enemy in the university dungeon with a generic *** mechakoopa

And also replaced one of my favorite characters, Psycho Kamek, with a boring Dr. Toad.

I don’t think you’re seeing things straight here at all

I'm going to leave it on this remark. I personally have no problem with the changes they made. Unnecessary? Maybe. That shouldn't determine whether a game is good or not just because pointless assets got dropped to fit a new, modern Mario RPG. The game is a remake for a reason. It isn't going to be 100% to the original. The graphics (and music) alone are enough to satisfy me because of the fact that there are some games I praise for their visual choices. M&L's modern games, SMRPG, Hollow Knight, and Rayman Legends are perfect examples of my taste in visuals. To me, the biggest problem would be doing a "New 52" to the game, which they very clearly didn't.

Also, I'm sure this could be controversial but I would eagerly let AlphaDream remaster SMRPG. Take of that what you will.

In other news, congrats on the books everyone!

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Oh dear Lord, I didn't realize that they had fundamentally changed the style of superstar saga in the 3ds remake. That's just.. Awful to look at. No wonder it didn't sell. It's like they saw the new super Mario bros games and said "yeah, whatever, we'll just do that"

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Am I seriously the only one here who likes the way the remakes made the series look?

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Phase 2 is in the books (I meant to say that)

https://twitter.com/opestarfall/status/1179406385894830083

I cannot thank everyone enough for all the help in getting this organized and set up. Special thanks goes out to Slender Ovaltine J JarBear and Xigger for organizing and setting this up together.

Well this certainly brightens my day. Over 400 submissions is great. Hopefully, all of this shows Nintendo how beloved SMRPG is to many people. I really appreciate everyone's hard work organizing these kinds of things and everyone who took the time to participate in the letter campaign.

On another note -- back to the discussion regarding M&L, I really did love Dream Team and found it in no way disappointing. For me, it was just as good as Bowser's Inside Story (the original I haven't played the remake).

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Am I seriously the only one here who likes the way the remakes made the series look?

I think it'd be dishonest to assume you're the only one. Though I think it's fair to guess that you're likely in the minority.

Part of what I liked about superstar saga was it's cartoony look. I'm beginning to see what people mean when they call it homogenized. I can't look at this new one without hearing "BA- BA-" in my head

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

I think it'd be dishonest to assume you're the only one. Though I think it's fair to guess that you're likely in the minority. Part of what I liked about superstar saga was is cartoony look. I'm beginning to see what people mean when they call it homogenized

I guess I am. :/
I thought the remakes made the originals better because the graphical updates and music updates. I will say that I now doubt that they're coming to the Switch, which is really depressing to me.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I seriously the only one here who likes the way the remakes made the series look?

At first, I wasn't a big fan of the updated graphics, but the more I looked at them, the more I could tell a heavy degree of love had been put into them. It was a natural progression, in my opinion, to make the sprites look more like traditional cartoons, or closer to a painting. The art style change is great.

The fact that the Troopeas were changed to generic, upright Koopas is, however, unforgivable. That isn't an artstyle change that makes the series look different or better, that's a complete change of enemy design. The middle sprite in that image you attached earlier? Which I assume is a fanmade sprite? That's what should have happened. Not only is the upright Koopa unfaithful to the original, he's freaking creepy.

Having watched a longplay of the remake, and being reminded of the changes by some comments in this thread, I'm going to again state that it is unacceptable to change the bosses/enemies outright like that. The artstyle can evolve all it wants to, but if you're going to start replacing things, just make a new game. There's no reason to "remake" something and change key points that people remember, or that make the game stand out.

Would I appreciate a remake of Mario RPG? Darn right. Would I want one, knowing that some enemies are going to get redesigned for no good reason, or outright replaced? Nah, I'd rather just keep playing the old version. It has aged extremely well, regardless.

 

[StarLight42]

Oh dear Lord, I didn't realize that they had fundamentally changed the style of superstar saga in the 3ds remake. That's just.. Awful to look at. No wonder it didn't sell. It's like they saw the new super Mario bros games and said "yeah, whatever, we'll just do that"

Lmao! You nailed it on the head. This is pretty much EXACTLY how i’ve felt about every post-Sticker Star RPG game. They have such bland, “New Super Mario” ish artstyles, and I hated it when they tried to blend that into the colorful and expressive world of Superstar Saga. Made me sick in a way.

Needless to say, my confidence in Mario RPGs had already hit rock bottom several times over, so Alpha going bankrupt has little of an effect on me

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

I guess I am. :/
I thought the remakes made the originals better because the graphical updates and music updates. I will say that I now doubt that they're coming to the Switch, which is really depressing to me.

A graphical update does not equate to a style update. They could have stuck with the original style and given it a higher resolution makeover and it would've looked great! Make the graphics look like the box art. People would eat that **** up!

 

[Ovaltine]

A graphical update does not equate to a style update. They could have stuck with the original style and given it a higher resolution makeover and it would've looked great! Make the graphics look like the box art. People would eat that **** up!

I can't even begin to describe how sexy that style would look as the core graphical style of a Mario RPG game. More like TAKE ALL OF MY MONEY.

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

I agree that the box art style was absolutely divine.

 

[JarBear]

Phase 2 is in the books (I meant to say that)

https://twitter.com/opestarfall/status/1179406385894830083

I cannot thank everyone enough for all the help in getting this organized and set up. Special thanks goes out to Slender Ovaltine J JarBear and Xigger for organizing and setting this up together.

You all did the hard work and I appreciate what the end result looks like. I've been on a bit of a hiatus due to a ton of stuff going on that needs my full attention. Looks so fabulous.

 

[StarLight42]

So what’s your guys’ favorite Mario RPG? Mine is Paper Mario: TTYD.

(hint: no, you don’t have to have SMRPG as your fav. game to like Geno and want him in Smash.)

 

[domriver]

So what’s your guys’ favorite Mario RPG? Mine is Paper Mario: TTYD.

(hint: no, you don’t have to have SMRPG as your fav. game to like Geno and want him in Smash.)

Now that i think about it - I enjoy the full soundtrack of SMRPG Legend of the Seven Stars.
I like Smithy's theme. jeje

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

So what’s your guys’ favorite Mario RPG? Mine is Paper Mario: TTYD.

(hint: no, you don’t have to have SMRPG as your fav. game to like Geno and want him in Smash.)

My heart will always belong to the original. However, the original paper Mario also holds a special place in my heart

 

[Deleted member]

So what’s your guys’ favorite Mario RPG? Mine is Paper Mario: TTYD.

(hint: no, you don’t have to have SMRPG as your fav. game to like Geno and want him in Smash.)

Super Mario RPG is LOTSS better than all the rest. It was my very first RPG, actually, so even if I'm just blinded by nostalgia, it'll always be my favorite. Maybe if they bring Geno back for another Mario RPG, it'll get dethroned.

Paper Mario was also really, really good. It's probably the comfiest game on the N64 and I really think Thousand Year Door removed a lot of the charm the first had.

 

[Ovaltine]

So what’s your guys’ favorite Mario RPG? Mine is Paper Mario: TTYD.

(hint: no, you don’t have to have SMRPG as your fav. game to like Geno and want him in Smash.)

Paper Mario 64. It was my introduction to the Mario RPGs as a young'in, and it holds such a special place in my heart. Apart from Super Mario 64 and Conker's Bad Fur Day (yes, seriously), that was one of the games I played with my grandpa PLENTY when I was a little girl. He noticed that I loved it so much that he gave it to me entirely. Whenever I think of the Mario RPGs, I think of my grandpa as a result. I miss him sorely, and the Mario RPGs represent the mark he left on my life in a lot of ways.

Needless to say, I have a lot of sentimental reasons for wanting Geno in Smash and for wanting the Mario RPGs to return to form again.

Super Mario RPG is LOTSS better than all the rest.

I see what you did theeeeeeere.

 

[Firox]

So what’s your guys’ favorite Mario RPG? Mine is Paper Mario: TTYD.

(hint: no, you don’t have to have SMRPG as your fav. game to like Geno and want him in Smash.)

Yeah, not to be bias or anything, but SMRPG is still the best in my eyes. It had an epic soundtrack, awesome characters, great animations and really cool bad guys. I've played the Mario & Luigi ones, and even though they're fun, I like having my RPGs with more than just two guys in a party. As for the Paper Mario series, they were also fun, and I know the whole 2D thing was supposed to be "stylistic" and all, but I always just saw it as one of Nintendo's many excuses for going skimp on the graphics. I know graphics aren't everything, and they still make some games with amazing graphics (Mario Galaxy, Odyssey, 3D World, etc.), but it's kinda irked me for a while now how Nintendo has done every trick in the book to compensate for their chronically under-powered hardware. Cell shading, "Yarn" and "Paper" being among them. Part of what made SMRPG so amazing was what they were able to pull off with just sprites.

 

[Heoj]

The only M&L games I've played is Bowsers Inside Story, a good chunk of Dream Team and some Superstar Saga on my phone emulator and imo Bowsers Inside Story is easily the best one. Fawful was a blast and I love the snappy dialogue.
I hope Nintendo decides to save the series or hire the developers.

 

[Ovaltine]

The only M&L games I've played is Bowsers Inside Story, a good chunk of Dream Team and some Superstar Saga on my phone emulator and imo Bowsers Inside Story is easily the best one. Fawful was a blast and I love the snappy dialogue.
I hope Nintendo decides to save the series or hire the developers.

I'm not about to bet on them saving the series itself or buying out AD, but I can see them hiring some of the devs into the core Nintendo business.

I have one fear, though, if M&L is kept as a series. Because some of the BIS remake's segments were handled with help by Arzest... oh, please, for the love of ALL THAT IS HOLY, do NOT let Arzest make Mario RPGs. EVER. They already ruin everything they touch, yet Nintendo gives them more and more projects to suck the charm out of. Please, no.

 

[Deleted member]

So what’s your guys’ favorite Mario RPG? Mine is Paper Mario: TTYD.

(hint: no, you don’t have to have SMRPG as your fav. game to like Geno and want him in Smash.)

Obviously Super Mario RPG is my favorite Mario RPG but I also have a lot of fond memories for Bowser's Inside Story and Partners in Time so I love all three but especially SMRPG that's definitely my favorite of the bunch.