Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Ravioko]

I love your optimism but we could get some stages with no reps like Wrecking Crew or something like that.

Like I said - if it's just 5 more stages not related to anything new, and just random franchises/returning stages...why save such a small number?

 

[Slender]

Solely based off of Vergeben's leaks, this is the stage lineup I had in mind:

1: A Square Enix rep stage. Would most likely be Geno along with a SMRPG stage. Simple enough.
2: Minecraft. Vergeben did say there was some form of Minecraft content coming along, so a stage could fulfill that.

Those are the obvious picks, but the next 3 are more speculation than these two.

3: Pokemon Sun/Moon stage. Based off of some location in Alola to tie with Incineroar's reveal.
4: Battle Harbor. Vergeben leaked Ken as an echo fighter of Ryu, and with the huge number of Street Fighter music in this game, I could see them bringing Ken's home turf as well. I think Street Fighter is deserving enough of two stages.
5: Spiral Mountain / Banjo-Kazooie stage. Having Minecraft in Ultimate would mean Nintendo is working with Microsoft, which would skyrocket the bear and bird's chances. With them would come a stage to represent their series.

That would leave the empty square at the end to have the DLC arrow for more stages. I think this lineup of base-game stages is already amazing, but these 5 would bring even more.

 

[aquasound]

Been a wild ride these past couple of days, what with all the theories, Isabelle backlash, and continued animosity towards characters like Geno, Isaac, etc. Hold tight star army! I believe there's more in store until December 7th.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

I didn't even think about it first. But yes! If there are more stages than at LEAST one of them has to be for a new character! And actually with 5 it would fill all the rest of the slots on stage select with leaving one space open for possibly a future next page button if we get DLC!

And the only reason they wouldn't have shown those stages yet would be because they are ment for new characters or as special suprises! And it does tie together with vergeben. So could be minecraft stage, or even stage with character if they go that far '

 

[grizby2]

Solely based off of Vergeben's leaks, this is the stage lineup I had in mind:

1: A Square Enix rep stage. Would most likely be Geno along with a SMRPG stage. Simple enough.
2: Minecraft. Vergeben did say there was some form of Minecraft content coming along, so a stage could fulfill that.

Those are the obvious picks, but the next 3 are more speculation than these two.

3: Pokemon Sun/Moon stage. Based off of some location in Alola to tie with Incineroar's reveal.
4: Battle Harbor. Vergeben leaked Ken as an echo fighter of Ryu, and with the huge number of Street Fighter music in this game, I could see them bringing Ken's home turf as well. I think Street Fighter is deserving enough of two stages.
5: Spiral Mountain / Banjo-Kazooie stage. Having Minecraft in Ultimate would mean Nintendo is working with Microsoft, which would skyrocket the bear and bird's chances. With them would come a stage to represent their series.

That would leave the empty square at the end to have the DLC arrow for more stages. I think this lineup of base-game stages is already amazing, but these 5 would bring even more.

I hope I don't sound antagonistic or anything (please don't hate me ). I honestly hope we DON'T get this kind of vergeben "blue plate special" of stages.

while a Stage made for Geno would be very nice, I think theres already enough Mario stages to make Geno feel at home, then again, Geno is a "special" case.

I can see Minecraft getting a stage, but ONLY if banjo isn't a reveal. I think they would save a stage for the Microsoft rep (banjo) instead and give Minecraft an assist trophy or something, as I don't see Microsoft getting 2 stages.

I don't think they would give an echo special treatment with a ken specific stage either, so battle harbor doesn't make sense to me.

pokemon stages are quite abundant this time around just like the Mario stages, so an extra stage from the pokemon series just seems like overkill at this point. at the VERY LEAST, id much rather see a revamped pokefloats with all 7 gens (maybe even the 8th) being represented, heck, maybe that stage can travel to various locations in the pokemon world, and we'll be able to see different landmarks and climb on top of different pokemon according to the generation of the current destination that's in the backround. I think that'd be pretty Coolio.

 

[Jazzy Jinx]

Mannnn, I need Geno to be the next newcomer reveal.

Isn't 12 years a long enough wait, Sakurai? xD

 

[VexTheHex]

I'm pretty on board with the Box theory being a solid indicator. But I must admit that if they got a couple BIG 3rd parties saved for the end, I could see say... Geno and Banjo + Kazooie having large portraits on the back of the box. So even if the box theory is true, I could see Geno making it in and being featured as one of the big bangs on the back. I have greatly lessened my expectations, but I still have a feeling there's hope for a twist.

Good luck Geno fans!

 

[UberMadman]

I don't know if anyone remembers, but about three weeks ago, I made this post:

So in anticipation of Geno potentially making it into Smash after all these years, I've been replaying Super Mario RPG! However, this is a big deal for me because while I've played it a few times, the farthest I'd made it before was beating Punchinello, and then I'd stopped playing for a while for one reason or another, (not at all related to interest in the game,) but I never came back to it on that save file afterward. I had experienced and fallen in love with the full game nearly a decade ago with chuggaaconroy's (admittedly very dated) LP of it though, so I knew the game in full from beginning to end, but I figured after all this time, it was finally time for me to complete it from beginning to end. Currently, I've just beaten Yaridovich, so I'm getting pretty close to the ending now! This experience has been a lot of fun, but it has really allowed me to fall in love with Geno, Mallow, and the game as a whole all over again, as well as remember many little moments and pieces of dialogue I had forgotten about. The game, while overall very easy, is nevertheless a gem that has aged incredibly well, and I hope that if Geno does finally end up playable in Smash, it will lead to a younger generation of players trying it out for themselves, (if Nintendo re-releases it in some playable capacity on the Switch, of course.)

However, after I did, it wasn't long until I began college again in full force, and progress completing the rest of the game slowed down a lot. Regardless, I was determined to keep at it because it was my dream to one day beat that game from beginning to end before Geno came to Smash, and now, I am here tonight to tell you all that I have officially kicked Smithy's butt! It wasn't even a contest; I beat Culex immediately after getting the Lazy Shells shortly after Valentina. Finally getting to see the ending where Geno returned home with my own eyes was very bittersweet. My sister, who was watching, joked he was ascending to Smash, which I hope proves to be accurate. Sadly, the box leak, which I feel has a lot more legitmacy than people are giving it credit for, seems to suggest that we may only be getting one non-echo newcomer, but even if that were true, there is still plenty of hope for DLC. Anyway, I'm rambling a bit now; I just wanted to let you all know that I did it because I'm proud of myself for it. Super Mario RPG was fantastic from beginning to end, and if Geno makes it into Smash, I hope that spurs enough interest for a remake or true sequel to be made so that Geno and Mallow can make their glorious return to gaming as a whole.

See you on the other side, Geno.

 

[Tiymako]

So I was looking at the support list and I didn't see my name on there so if you folks can add me to it for Geno that would be awesome. I left a like on the OP to show it already.

Just wanted to come by and say that we still have hope for our characters to get in with the 108 Stages booming off the 103 Stages theory. Keeping my optimism up and really look forward for Geno!!

 

[UberMadman]

Oh yeah, I completely forgot to mention that I would love to be added to the supporter list, too! I’ve been off and on supporting him since the Brawl days, but I believe that now is finally his time.

 

[slopdop]

What a relief to hear about the 108 stages. Definitely puts my mind at ease for now. Wonder what the chances of getting an SMRPG stage are, though I'd be fine if we don't end up getting one anyway.

Also on a side note I just want to say that I really appreciate you guys a lot here, as well as the other groups here on SB too. Been reading through numerous pages during my spare time at work and I really wish I came here sooner. Other sites I've had a hard time reading through/having actual fun discussions about Smash content without wanting to tear my hair out, but being here has been a real pleasure. Thanks guys :>

 

[Flynn__]

I was so sure that this time Geno would make it into the base roster, but now I'm starting to believe the box theory and I'm starting to feel that Incineroar and Ken are indeed the last characters left. Hope that we still get him via DLC, though

 

[Zoljinx_]

Vergeben (the most accurate leaker we have this cycle of Smash speculation) has confirmed Incineroar as the 7th gen Pokemon he's mentioned. Assuming that he's right, this actually puts Geno in a very strange position, as he's also stated that there is a Square-Enix character, he just doesn't know who yet. my guess is that they're doing their absolute best to keep it under-wraps.

Now, everyone here at this point knows that Geno is the most speculated Square-Enix character, and despite him having competition with other Square Enix characters like Sora or another Final fantasy character, I feel Sakurai's statement of wanting him back in Brawl might be enough to make Geno what they decide on.

my guess is that Geno will be revealed as DLC in a similar fashion that Mewtwo was revealed. and with any luck, he'll be available shortly after launch, or even, dare I say, a pre-order bonus.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

I can definitely see Geno being DLC, not because he couldn't make the base roster but SE wanting to make more money off him. But regardless I am definitely putting my money down for him.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Vergeben also said he’s going to investigate the box theory if there’s anymore

Basicly checking if the Square Enix character is dlc or not

 

[NukeA6]

2. Bowser's Keep. Obviously for Geno. Could be Forest Maze, but somehow I doubt it.

Might as well not have a Super Mario RPG stage at all because Bowser's Keep is based on Bowser's Castle in Super Mario World.

 

[ctt4lfecw]

Square making us pay for Geno right out the gate huh? What a surprise. Well, whatever it takes. I've waited 22 years for Geno's return.

 

[Haunted237]

Long time Geno supporter and forum stalker here. First post on SMASHBOARDS ever. I liked OP, can I be added to supporter’s list?

The first video game I ever owned was SMRPG...waiting for confirmation has been grueling, but you all have helped me to get through this! Thanks for being so positive!

 

[MattX20]

I seriously doubt this. Sakurai would aim to make damn sure he was base roster material, I don't think he would be DLC. Only characters I can see being DLC at the moment outside of 3rd party stuff are Rex and Pyra/Mythra and any ARMS characters

 

[link2702]

It’s this waiting for more news that is so frustrating...

For me that Isabelle reveal was kinda like the first teaser we got for ultimate revealing the inklings against the firey backdrop and nothing else. I’m hungry for more news...

 

[Megadoomer]

I seriously doubt this. Sakurai would aim to make damn sure he was base roster material, I don't think he would be DLC. Only characters I can see being DLC at the moment outside of 3rd party stuff are Rex and Pyra/Mythra and any ARMS characters

Geno is a third party character, though.

I'd have no problem with him being DLC, personally; the pricing was fair for Smash 4 (at least, if you bought characters/stages as they came out - buying them all after the fact could get expensive), and I'd rather him be DLC than having him relegated to a Mii costume or not appearing in the game at all.

Having him in the base game would be ideal, but Square-Enix still gave Final Fantasy two songs, so they could be stingy with this sort of thing.

 

[MattX20]

Geno is a third party character, though.

I'd have no problem with him being DLC, personally; the pricing was fair for Smash 4 (at least, if you bought characters/stages as they came out - buying them all after the fact could get expensive), and I'd rather him be DLC than having him relegated to a Mii costume or not appearing in the game at all.

Having him in the base game would be ideal, but Square-Enix still gave Final Fantasy two songs, so they could be stingy with this sort of thing.

The problem with the whole Geno as DLC thing is that there has been a lot of evidence as of late pointing towards him being both playable and in the base roster. That, and Mario RPG's music isn't in the same category as FF's musical licensing nightmares. That, and Sakurai was the one who got Cloud and they were very cooperative with him on it, it wouldn't make sense to screw over a potentially good business deal as they would get more money/shares via the base games sales with both in.

 

[Thani]

Being DLC is more likely to make Square be on board since it would be easier for them to make money off of him with each sale, which is fine by me. Being DLC like that is essentially a guarantee that he would be high quality and come with a variety of content in the form of his own stage and various music tracks.

That's opposed to Geno being on the base roster, but being hamstrung by a lack of a stage to call his own or more than two or three token tracks they managed to get the rights of.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I would pick Geno being DLC 10 times out of 10 before I'd ever care for him on the base roster, if it would make a big difference in the quality of the character's implementation. I've waited this long, and I will happily wait for a longterm benefit over immediate shortterm gain every time.

 

[Pryze]

If Sakurai is involved, quality is a guarantee regardless, considering his track record with Ultimate and its roster. Of course, if Geno's only means of being in the game is through DLC, then I would be more than supportive of that; what's a few extra months when we've already been waiting 10 years?

That being said, I'm honestly pretty surprised to see the amount of people putting so much stock into the box theory--given the circumstances, it just reeks of pessimism.

 

[Fatmanonice]

That being said, I'm honestly pretty surprised to see the amount of people putting so much stock into the box theory--given the circumstances, it just reeks of pessimism.

To quote a long running meme on /v/ when it comes to Smash leaks: "it's disappointing enough to be true." Like everyone's saying though, there's no way in hell that they're going to pass up on DLC in this game considering 1. how it buried them in money for Smash 4 and 2. the 20th anniversary of Smash is next year.

 

[valkiriforce]

Smash Ultimate has been in development for some time now - I'm thinking Sakurai would have taken the time to get Geno secured maybe even a year or two prior to release. I don't think DLC is something that should even be considered for Geno seeing that even his Mii Fighter outfit got a splash screen back in 2015. I know Sakurai would love to include Geno as he himself said, and I'm hopeful and confident in his ability to do what seems impossible for Smash like he has so far up to this point, what with banging out big-name characters like Ridley and King K. Rool. I would think he would already have taken the time to secure Geno at this point and ensure that this is the ultimate Smash Bros. game.

I mean, I wouldn't be against Geno making it as DLC if he isn't in the base game, but that just seems kind of shorthanded. It's been well over 10 years at this point in support of Geno, and Sakurai isn't unaware of how much people would like to see him again.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

He a

Hello!
I made an account here (and on Imgur) to bring an observation to the table that I have not seen discussed yet.
That image of Geno rolling his eyes hasnt been proven fake yet, right?
Welp Wiiugamer shared a new "leaked" image of the boy in blue that looks pretty legit.
problem is that when you compare them side by side, there are enough stylistic differences between the two to think that one of them (at least) is fake.

https://imgur.com/M4gdkz1

Its mostly with his 2 strands of hair, their size and placement differ too much.

he actually used my fake leak? I'm so excited!

 

[EntropyAtrophy]

My thoughts:
- The box theory is silly. They’ve been re-arranging artwork every time there’s a reveal so taking any stock into that seems foolish.
- Characters given less fanfare for their Mii Costumes are now unique playable fighters, why not Geno who got a splash screen? If he was popular enough to get that screen just as a costume, they could very well be saving him for last. No other costume got that treatment regardless of if first or third party.
- FF’s music composer is notoriously stingy. SMRPG’s composer is not and is making music for this game already. This equivalency needs to go away and never come back. We would definitely get SMRPG music if we get Geno.
- The 5 stages we haven’t been shown yet are most likely new ones. They wouldn’t save recycled content for last. Come on forest maze!
- If Minecraft is a stage in this game, there’d better be rainbow disco llamas named _jeb running around or I’m not buying a Switch. (Loljk but please tho)

 

[domriver]

What a relief to hear about the 108 stages. Definitely puts my mind at ease for now. Wonder what the chances of getting an SMRPG stage are, though I'd be fine if we don't end up getting one anyway.

Also on a side note I just want to say that I really appreciate you guys a lot here, as well as the other groups here on SB too. Been reading through numerous pages during my spare time at work and I really wish I came here sooner. Other sites I've had a hard time reading through/having actual fun discussions about Smash content without wanting to tear my hair out, but being here has been a real pleasure. Thanks guys :>

108 Sounds about right with the left over space. and the last spot can be like an arrow to the 2nd page for DLC.
Certainly makes it good for Geno.

Vergeben (the most accurate leaker we have this cycle of Smash speculation) has confirmed Incineroar as the 7th gen Pokemon he's mentioned. Assuming that he's right, this actually puts Geno in a very strange position, as he's also stated that there is a Square-Enix character, he just doesn't know who yet. my guess is that they're doing their absolute best to keep it under-wraps.

Now, everyone here at this point knows that Geno is the most speculated Square-Enix character, and despite him having competition with other Square Enix characters like Sora or another Final fantasy character, I feel Sakurai's statement of wanting him back in Brawl might be enough to make Geno what they decide on.

my guess is that Geno will be revealed as DLC in a similar fashion that Mewtwo was revealed. and with any luck, he'll be available shortly after launch, or even, dare I say, a pre-order bonus.

This is not really a "surprise" for the most part everyone expected a pokemon just which one was the debate ever about. Im neutral over this.

Square making us pay for Geno right out the gate huh? What a surprise. Well, whatever it takes. I've waited 22 years for Geno's return.

Not sure how DLC and BASE roster works as far as for payment goes. DLC is the amount of times he is purchased? or is there a set price REGARDLESS? Im curious. Im hoping that Geno is in based roster and he has involved in that mysterious mode heavily. Hence why they have not talked about it yet.

 

[Klimax]

I don't believe in the box theory because of one thing:
At the last Smash Direct, they revealed 2 newcomers + 2 echo fighters, I don't imagine them giving us less content (when it comes to characters) for the next Smash Direct (we all know that we'll have another Smash Direct).

Ken and Incineroar are locks according to Vergeben (in my opinion, we can trust him). He talked about another Square rep'. And Shadow seems very likely because of his still missing AT.

I think that we can have 4 more characters (2 unique, 2 echo). 5 at best. And i'm still confident about Geno's chances. We just have to remember all of the things that he has going for him. Geno is clearly still very VERY likely.

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

I have to wonder what the box theory supporters think the other 5 stages are, if we're only getting 1 more unique. To me, the new stage count absolutely destroys the box theory, considering there would be literally no reason to hide those stages if they weren't meant for character reveals. Seriously, if there are any box theory supporters here, please explain this to me. What do you think the other stages are, and why were they held back?

Beyond that, while I do think Vergeben is credible, I simply don't see Incineroar and Ken as the ONLY two reveals left. Disappointing enough to be true, yes, but it doesn't make much sense when you consider the August direct. Why show that explosion of five characters, then make the final showcase (which will contain Spirits mode, mind you) only have two, with one being an echo?

I don't buy it. The only reason to show that many characters so early is if you only plan to reveal characters in directs, and there's only a few directs before launch. Otherwise, you'd space it out. Save at least a few echoes for the final video. It just doesn't make sense to blowout like that, when you could have save K. Rool (for example) for the last big reveal. Simon could have carried that direct on his own.

No, I think we're getting two more uniques. One to open or reveal through Spirits, and one to end on. We may even get another. Verge didn't confirm those two would be the final roster, nor is his information necessarily up-to-date. He's just responding to the box theory.

Guys, don't let yourself get buried in theories. Remember: every theory we had told us the most recent reveal wouldn't be Isabelle. But it was. Like I said before, we are always going to be wrong. In the case of Isabelle, being wrong was a negative, because we were too optimistic. Now everyone's being pessimistic, we are likely to be wrong AGAIN, and the reveals will be huge.

Just wait and see. Don't be negative or positive. With Sakurai, the best thing to do is predict nothing at all.

 

[valkiriforce]

Definitely agreed - there's still much to be revealed and I'm certain they would make sure to have something to stretch the hype for Smash in the next Direct. It just wouldn't be as fun if we had all the answers and I'm looking forward to being surprised again by what's in store.

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I love all you geno boys poppin' in the Isaac thread. One way or another, one of our boys gets in this game. I can feel it in my bones.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Verg just tripled down on there being a SE character

"The gen 7 Pokemon that isn't Decidueye, Lycanroc, or obviously not Mimikyu is Incineroar.
I finally heard that it is Incineroar from all my main Smash sources so there you have it.

As for the roster, in the very least, Incineroar and Ken are left.
I've had people tagging me nonstop for the last day or two about the box theory, so I will address that.
I have been in contact with my sources about it. There's no confirmation as of this moment whether or not that will be it for the launch roster.

I guess I might as well end by saying that if you think this game won't be supported further after launch, well, that's not a smart assumption to make.
The Square Enix character that I heard about is an interesting exception in all of this when it comes to the box theory and my knowledge of there being a character of theirs comes from someone who's never had a habit of being wrong.
Even if that really is all for launch, it's not the end.

For the time being, it is a waiting game. They're going to contact me if they hear of any contradictions or information they can offer that confirms or denies the box theory. "


He doesn't know if the box theory is true, but he does think there is a Square-Enix character. And it's interesting to note that he hasn't heard about ANY other characters

So, could the SE character be DLC?

Could we get Geno as DLC?

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

Verg just tripled down on there being a SE character

"The gen 7 Pokemon that isn't Decidueye, Lycanroc, or obviously not Mimikyu is Incineroar.
I finally heard that it is Incineroar from all my main Smash sources so there you have it.

As for the roster, in the very least, Incineroar and Ken are left.
I've had people tagging me nonstop for the last day or two about the box theory, so I will address that.
I have been in contact with my sources about it. There's no confirmation as of this moment whether or not that will be it for the launch roster.

I guess I might as well end by saying that if you think this game won't be supported further after launch, well, that's not a smart assumption to make.
The Square Enix character that I heard about is an interesting exception in all of this when it comes to the box theory and my knowledge of there being a character of theirs comes from someone who's never had a habit of being wrong.
Even if that really is all for launch, it's not the end.

For the time being, it is a waiting game. They're going to contact me if they hear of any contradictions or information they can offer that confirms or denies the box theory. "


He doesn't know if the box theory is true, but he does think there is a Square-Enix character. And it's interesting to note that he hasn't heard about ANY other characters

So, could the SE character be DLC?

Could we get Geno as DLC?

Geno could get Mewtwo'd. But I think he'll make base honestly. Have hope geno bros!

 

[Fatmanonice]

5 stages... One is undoubtedly a new Pokemon stage as Gen 7 is front and center in this game. Hard to say for the others. Literally every other franchise is covered in Smash except ROB, which would be really hard to make a stage for. There will probably be two odd ball choices like a new retro stage ala Wrecking Crew/Pilotwings and one new totally out of the blue like Electroplankton (putting my money on Nintendo Land or Miitopia). The last two could be anything, honestly. Half expect one of them to be Minecraft related or hints at future DLC.

 

[Dan]

I like how the SE source is his most trusted, yet he still won't tell us the character (Geno fan probz).

I also hate the fact they wasted a dev slot on Incineroar; another character I'll be equally pissed off at as much as Isabelle, though I bet he'll actually look cool in-game, but there you have it: if Dixie and another highly-requested character don't make it, you know who to blame.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

A lot of people have been saying Sakurai will do Geno as DLC shortly after the game comes out

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/04/23/sakurai-on-dlc-its-all-about-making-players-happy/

That is NOT how Sakurai handles DLC. he HATES that kind of DLC. if Vergeben is talking about a square character being in. I think it's because they are in the base roster. Sakurai would have likely negotiated for Geno as far back as when he first got Cloud and have planned to put Geno in very early on.

I think Geno is the final reveal. a super top secret pick left out of promotion to be one last "you never thought this could happen" kind of surprise.

Geno is in there. we are not ending on 69. Sakurai has been focusing on rounded numbers. Geno is number 70 I'm calling it now.

 

[StormC]

Sakurai has been focusing on rounded numbers.

Er, since when?

 

[Dan]

Like if you're gonna do the ballot, double-down on it and don't pick random characters like Incineroar; this isn't Smash Wii U.

I guess Sakurai will never be able to help himself, even in the game for the fans.