Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Deleted member]

"Nintendo took down a fanmade version of a song that they literally don't own because it had Smash Remix in the title"
"this has nothing to do with Smash"

There's something flawed about the logic here.

My point is that the songs being removed do not mean that Geno is suddenly in.

 

[Deleted member]

My point is that the songs being removed do not mean that Geno is suddenly in.

I understand your point, and if Nintendo had just gone after the Mario RPG songs on that channel, there wouldn't be much of a theory here, but they also specifically went for a song that they don't own, one that had absolutely no bearing on Smash, until suddenly, last Wednesday, with no warning, it did. I think it's been mentioned in this thread that Nintendo doesn't own anything from Mario RPG that their composers didn't create, either, so...

It's not a guarantee, but to say that music takedowns that are provably relevant to Smash have nothing to do with Smash is incorrect. I haven't seen proof, but there's a word here and there that Nintendo struck some Banjo Kazooie music, too. If Nintendo's reckless legal team is leaking characters in an attempt to stop characters from leaking, I'm all for letting them continue.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I would like to see Donald and Goofy in Sora's final smash since they are his companions for most of his journey and maybe a Donald or Goofy icon if he activates his Wisdom and Valor drives respectively similar to Hero's command special. It just feels wrong not to include them and I know people have issues with 4th party characters being in Super Smash Bros Ultimate but if they are prominent in video games, they should at least have some minor representation.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This is going to be unpopular, but I still don't think Geno is going to make the cut. However, I think the Mii costume is coming back.

I'm sure this has been said, but about 9 months ago, Nintendo took down a fan remix of Megalovania. Now Sans is a costume with the song as a bonus. Two months ago, they took down two Mario RPG songs. This makes me think Geno and another costume (Mallow swordfighter with Froggie Stick?) are coming with those tracks attached. I'd love to be wrong, but I'd rather brace for disappointment.

I don't think the Mii costume is coming back as if it was, I'm pretty sure we would have seen it when the Square-Enix/Dragon Quest Mii costumes dropped with Hero.

 

[wynn728]

Let's say you were allowed one character that breaks the "no non video game character rule" who would you pick?

Optional Hardmode: can't be Goku or anyone from a shounen anime.

I would have Sam & Max as a pair, similar to ice climbers.

Geralt from The Witcher since it started out as a book. I don't know anything about The Witcher or Geralt, but that would create a lot of buzz.

 

[Datboigeno]

My point is that the songs being removed do not mean that Geno is suddenly in.

I don’t think people are saying that. But two songs that are heavily associated with the character and the fact that every SE character has had only two pieces of music attached to them along with the logical point where the costume being revealed already having passed is what people think is a positive for Geno. So yeah the Geno costume coming is still possible but the music take down alone isn’t why people are feeling hopeful that he’s bonus dlc.

Also to contrast the Sans vs Geno situation:
Sans only came with one piece of Undertale music. Why? Because he’s a costume. But Geno as a costume would come with two? As much as I love SMRPG and it’s music Undertale’s soundtrack is more current and a remix of World Revolving could have easily also been put together by Toby Fox and included. But Sans only came with one. Why would a Geno costume come with two tracks for the same price as Sans who only comes with one? Do people really think notoriously money hungry SE would be cool with that? It just doesn’t line up with what they’ve done in the past.

 

[Rikarte]

This is going to be unpopular, but I still don't think Geno is going to make the cut. However, I think the Mii costume is coming back.

I'm sure this has been said, but about 9 months ago, Nintendo took down a fan remix of Megalovania. Now Sans is a costume with the song as a bonus. Two months ago, they took down two Mario RPG songs. This makes me think Geno and another costume (Mallow swordfighter with Froggie Stick?) are coming with those tracks attached. I'd love to be wrong, but I'd rather brace for disappointment.

Yeah, that's definitely a possibility but MAN, it would be cruel of Nintendo to wait until a month before launch to deconfirm Geno as a spirit only to then wait another year after release only to deconfirm him AGAIN but this time as a Mii Outift. Don't play with my feelings man ;;

 

[GenoToto]

Ah, on the topic of whether or not Sora has any kind of chance of being included due to his very Disney-tier status in the industry, while it would certainly seem such a shame to exclude the two characters that have been within his circle since the very beginning, if it was a necessary sacrifice to make to get the character in, I would gladly accept the conditions.

Oh, but what of the keyblade? Well, there's something that could definitely help, and make things a bit more unique; How about a Smash-styled keyblade, exclusive to Ultimate? Instead of any Disney memorabilia, replace things like the keychain with a shiny li'l Smash Bros. symbol, and decorate the rest of the weapon accordingly.

Granted, if they actually found a way to allow such things (Donald, Goofy, the actual Mickey-themed Keyblade, etc), I wouldn't complain too much. It would absolutely be weird to see, and for some, a bit uncomfortable, but...

Ah. Well... we would just have to see what would happen, wouldn't we?

 

[TheCJBrine]

I know Nintendo took down:

-A Banjo-Kazooie fan remix and a Beware the Forest’s Mushrooms remix, both labeled as being for Smash and were from a channel that got nuked for uploading leaked music (Nintendo striked these specifically before nuking the channel, though)
-A Megalovania remix labeled as being for Smash - reasons are similar to the other fan remixes’ but the Megalovania was from a different channel
-The two SMRPG tracks
-Apparently some actual(?) Undertale music according to another user, but I didn’t see this myself

 

[SSGuy]

So after Geno get's in who's thread you'll all going to camp out at most of the time? After Geno get's in, I'll be spending most of my time in the Shantae thread.

I'll basically be finished if Geno ever gets in but I'd probably help out supporting Rayman at any chance I get.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'll basically be finished if Geno ever gets in but I'd probably help out supporting Rayman at any chance I get.

It's kind of weird how Rayman isn't playable yet. Ubisoft and Nintendo have such close relations with each other and all he get's is a trophy in Smash 4 and a Spirit in Ultimate?

 

[Icewolff92]

So after Geno get's in who's thread you'll all going to camp out at most of the time? After Geno get's in, I'll be spending most of my time in the Shantae thread.

Sepiroth
Black Knight

Yes, the last one is a Fire Emblem character, but I want more villains

 

[SSGuy]

I don’t think people are saying that. But two songs that are heavily associated with the character and the fact that every SE character has had only two pieces of music attached to them along with the logical point where the costume being revealed already having passed is what people think is a positive for Geno. So yeah the Geno costume coming is still possible but the music take down alone isn’t why people are feeling hopeful that he’s bonus dlc.

Also to contrast the Sans vs Geno situation:
Sans only came with one piece of Undertale music. Why? Because he’s a costume. But Geno as a costume would come with two? As much as I love SMRPG and it’s music Undertale’s soundtrack is more current and a remix of World Revolving could have easily also been put together by Toby Fox and included. But Sans only came with one. Why would a Geno costume come with two tracks for the same price as Sans who only comes with one? Do people really think notoriously money hungry SE would be cool with that? It just doesn’t line up with what they’ve done in the past.

But keep in mind, Rex came with more than one music track as well. Mii Fighter reveals are going to be scary regardless.

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t think people are saying that. But two songs that are heavily associated with the character and the fact that every SE character has had only two pieces of music attached to them along with the logical point where the costume being revealed already having passed is what people think is a positive for Geno. So yeah the Geno costume coming is still possible but the music take down alone isn’t why people are feeling hopeful that he’s bonus dlc.

Also to contrast the Sans vs Geno situation:
Sans only came with one piece of Undertale music. Why? Because he’s a costume. But Geno as a costume would come with two? As much as I love SMRPG and it’s music Undertale’s soundtrack is more current and a remix of World Revolving could have easily also been put together by Toby Fox and included. But Sans only came with one. Why would a Geno costume come with two tracks for the same price as Sans who only comes with one? Do people really think notoriously money hungry SE would be cool with that? It just doesn’t line up with what they’ve done in the past.

I mean, they could charge more for the costume... Maybe I'm just living in some kind of warped alternate reality, but didn't they use Beware the Forest's Mushrooms when they introduced Geno's Smash 4 costume? And yet they didn't bundle the music with the costume? Granted, Sans is the first costume to come with music, but if it was gonna become a tradition, it feels like they would have started it with the costume that got a character splash screen.

But keep in mind, Rex came with more than one music track as well. Mii Fighter reveals are going to be scary regardless.

IIRC Xenoblade Chronicles 2 music just came with the game. Rex came with nothing.

 

[Icewolff92]

I would like to see Donald and Goofy in Sora's final smash since they are his companions for most of his journey and maybe a Donald or Goofy icon if he activates his Wisdom and Valor drives respectively similar to Hero's command special. It just feels wrong not to include them and I know people have issues with 4th party characters being in Super Smash Bros Ultimate but if they are prominent in video games, they should at least have some minor representation.

If they would be included, you do know that the can of worm called including Goku, Spongebob or Shrek would be open than right?

 

[Firox]

I don’t think people are saying that. But two songs that are heavily associated with the character and the fact that every SE character has had only two pieces of music attached to them along with the logical point where the costume being revealed already having passed is what people think is a positive for Geno. So yeah the Geno costume coming is still possible but the music take down alone isn’t why people are feeling hopeful that he’s bonus dlc.

Also to contrast the Sans vs Geno situation:
Sans only came with one piece of Undertale music. Why? Because he’s a costume. But Geno as a costume would come with two? As much as I love SMRPG and it’s music Undertale’s soundtrack is more current and a remix of World Revolving could have easily also been put together by Toby Fox and included. But Sans only came with one. Why would a Geno costume come with two tracks for the same price as Sans who only comes with one? Do people really think notoriously money hungry SE would be cool with that? It just doesn’t line up with what they’ve done in the past.

Not only that, but there are vast differences between Sans and Geno on multiple fronts. Geno has a much larger following among the smash community and has been acknowledged by Sakurai on more than one occasion. Then consider the fact that Sans' Mii costume is much higher quality than Geno's original one was, thus indicating that Sakurai wanted to include Sans in the best way possible without actually making him a fighter. With this in mind, I don't see Sakurai simply adding the old, somewhat repugnant, rendition of Geno without at least some upgrade in appearance. It would be a serious slap in the face to Geno's fans if he did. Rather, of all the previous characters to merely be costumes, I would honestly say Geno is the most likely right now to get upgraded to full character status. Disagree if you want, but I don't think we can use Sans' costume/music as the end-all theory as to whether Geno is going to make it. Honestly, with the way things are right now, I don't see how anyone could say ANYTHING is off the table. We don't even have a finite number to limit the additional DLC so it's pointless to even say "Geno's chances are 1 in 5" etc.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

If they would be included, you do know that the can of worm called including Goku, Spongebob or Shrek would be open than right?

I just don't see it as fair to completely deny a fourth party character just because they originate from a media that is not video games. Like I said, If they have a strong video game presence like Donald and Goofy in Kingdom Hearts, they should at least have a little cameo to acknowledge that.

 

[Deleted member]

I just don't see it as fair to completely deny a fourth party character just because they originate from a media that is not video games. Like I said, If they have a strong video game presence like Donald and Goofy in Kingdom Hearts, they should at least have a little cameo to acknowledge that.

I think it's fair. Smash is a homage to video game history, the characters and franchises that made it what it is. If cartoon characters deserve a spot in a platform fighter they can make one themselves.

Actually, I think that's been tried a few times and it doesn't catch on. I have some theories as to why that is, but that's not for here.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I think it's fair. Smash is a homage to video game history, the characters and franchises that made it what it is. If cartoon characters deserve a spot in a platform fighter they can make one themselves.

Actually, I think that's been tried a few times and it doesn't catch on. I have some theories as to why that is, but that's not for here.

So Cloud's Advent Children costume is part of video game history?

 

[riggsbass]

So after Geno get's in who's thread you'll all going to camp out at most of the time? After Geno get's in, I'll be spending most of my time in the Shantae thread.

I've just been having fun using this board to talk about Geno with all of you. After he's announced, I'll enjoy the hype with you all but then I'll probably be done with Smash speculation... until the next game.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So Cloud's Advent Children costume is part of video game history?

Yes because after all "It belongs in a museum.".

 

[Datboigeno]

But keep in mind, Rex came with more than one music track as well. Mii Fighter reveals are going to be scary regardless.

Oop I forgot about Rex. Huh.

Edit: actually Rex didn't come with music

 

[GenoToto]

So Cloud's Advent Children costume is part of video game history?

In fairness, one could say that, since Cloud originated from a video game first, anything afterwards that includes the character is still fair game. It's why, say, Greninja's final smash has the character turn into the anime-exclusive design of Ash-Greninja.

 

[Musubi]

Ah, on the topic of whether or not Sora has any kind of chance of being included due to his very Disney-tier status in the industry, while it would certainly seem such a shame to exclude the two characters that have been within his circle since the very beginning, if it was a necessary sacrifice to make to get the character in, I would gladly accept the conditions.

Oh, but what of the keyblade? Well, there's something that could definitely help, and make things a bit more unique; How about a Smash-styled keyblade, exclusive to Ultimate? Instead of any Disney memorabilia, replace things like the keychain with a shiny li'l Smash Bros. symbol, and decorate the rest of the weapon accordingly.

Granted, if they actually found a way to allow such things (Donald, Goofy, the actual Mickey-themed Keyblade, etc), I wouldn't complain too much. It would absolutely be weird to see, and for some, a bit uncomfortable, but...

Ah. Well... we would just have to see what would happen, wouldn't we?

I've never thought of a Smash-style keyblade before but now I so want that if Sora gets in as a fighter. I imagine it as having the smash ball as the keychain and it probably be some black/white/steel color. I love his original keyblade design though, so I would want the Smash keyblade as an alternate color.

As for the original keyblade, I've seen people bring up the issue of it having the Mickey symbol as it's keychain. If smash wanted to exclude all Disney things with Sora, they could easily just replace it with the Kingdom Hearts heart logo or the crown.

I just don't see it as fair to completely deny a fourth party character just because they originate from a media that is not video games. Like I said, If they have a strong video game presence like Donald and Goofy in Kingdom Hearts, they should at least have a little cameo to acknowledge that.

I completely agree that it wouldn't be the worst thing to have a fourth party reference. It doesn't even need to be the models of Donald and Goofy in Sora's moveset but maybe their weapons could pop up in a final smash.

As for the slippery slope it could open up, while that is a possibility, I trust Sakurai or whoever his successor will be to keep as many fourth party IPs out of Smash as much as possible. I would prefer Sora without the Disney references but I also think Kingdom Hearts is in a special situation where it wouldn't be too blasphemous to include some of the Disney stuff.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oop I forgot about Rex. Huh.

Pretty sure the XB2 music was base?

on the other hand... XBX music is missing...

ELMA TIME. Please

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Pretty sure the XB2 music was base?

on the other hand... XBX music is missing...

ELMA TIME. Please

Yes! Elma time! Elma time! Elma time!

 

[Evil Trapezium]

In fairness, one could say that, since Cloud originated from a video game first, anything afterwards that includes the character is still fair game. It's why, say, Greninja's final smash has the character turn into the anime-exclusive design of the Ash-styled Mega-Evolved Greninja.

Fair comment but that didn't stop Melee's proximity mine from being in the game despite being based off the remote mine from the Goldeneye movie!

 

[Musubi]

I think it's fair. Smash is a homage to video game history, the characters and franchises that made it what it is. If cartoon characters deserve a spot in a platform fighter they can make one themselves.

Actually, I think that's been tried a few times and it doesn't catch on. I have some theories as to why that is, but that's not for here.

You could argue that Kingdom Hearts in general is important to video game history and it being involved with Disney is important to it's historical significance. It's one of the most, if not the most, successful crossover between a video game series and another form of media or pop culture to exist in a video game.

Sorry I'm talking about Kingdom Hearts so much in the Geno thread. I'm just very passionate about Kingdom Hearts and I feel like Sora finally has a pretty good shot now.

 

[QQS]

So nobody knows who specifically is the creator/father of Geno?

 

[Icewolff92]

I just don't see it as fair to completely deny a fourth party character just because they originate from a media that is not video games. Like I said, If they have a strong video game presence like Donald and Goofy in Kingdom Hearts, they should at least have a little cameo to acknowledge that.

With that logic, you could argue that Goku should then get involved due to how many Dragon Balls there is out there (which is already a big argument for Goku for those that don¨t care about Smash should be a videogame celebration). So no, they shouldn¨t be involved, because you can use their inclusion as an argument for.. well like I previously stated.It would just be a new Sonic/Snake spiral

Smash is supposed to be about videogames aka characters that originate from videogames, not become Mugen which it would basically be if we started added Goofy or Donald if Sora would be included.

 

[T2by4]

I know Nintendo took down:

-A Banjo-Kazooie fan remix and a Beware the Forest’s Mushrooms remix, both labeled as being for Smash and were from a channel that got nuked for uploading leaked music (Nintendo striked these specifically before nuking the channel, though)
-A Megalovania remix labeled as being for Smash - reasons are similar to the other fan remixes’ but the Megalovania was from a different channel
-The two SMRPG tracks
-Apparently some actual(?) Undertale music according to another user, but I didn’t see this myself

Was one of the undertale songs... Bonetrousle? PAPYRUS BROS...

 

[StarLight42]

Knowing how they did Isaac dirty last year by saving his Assist Trophy to the very end, I do not yet think Geno is safe. All of this speculation about his returning costume spooks me. I don't know why is god's name they need to save it past the Hero/Dragon Quest fighter pack when there was open space and it was the optimal time for Square Enix, but I know it's possible.

 

[SkeffVEVO]

In fairness, one could say that, since Cloud originated from a video game first, anything afterwards that includes the character is still fair game. It's why, say, Greninja's final smash has the character turn into the anime-exclusive design of Ash-Greninja.

That design isn't anime exclusive as it appears in the Sun/Moon games too.

 

[Musubi]

With that logic, you could argue that Goku should then get involved due to how many Dragon Balls there is out there (which is already a big argument for Goku for those that don¨t care about Smash should be a videogame celebration). So no, they shouldn¨t be involved, because you can use their inclusion as an argument for.. well like I previously stated.It would just be a new Sonic/Snake spiral

Smash is supposed to be about videogames aka characters that originate from videogames, not become Mugen which it would basically be if we started added Goofy or Donald if Sora would be included.

That's a good point. But if Disney was the only non-video game IP represented in Smash and no other fourth party was included, even Dragonball, it wouldn't be the worse thing. I don't think it would ruin the idea that Smash is a monument to video game history. And again, they could easily just avoid this problem by removing any Disney references to Sora.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

So after Geno get's in who's thread you'll all going to camp out at most of the time? After Geno get's in, I'll be spending most of my time in the Shantae thread.

Honestly I'll probably still stick around here but I'll also be more active in the Rayman and Crash support threads.

 

[Icana]

I'd argue it would be more than a cameo, but I get what you are saying. The comparisons aren't exact, but my main point is that Disney can be difficult to deal with, even with bigger companies. And that the potential complications might encourage Nintendo to go "It would be nice to get Sora in, but we still have a lot of fan favorites that would sell extremely well and would break the internet that we can negotiate for that aren't owned by Disney". I just don't trust Disney to not get greedy with this if it ever came on the table. And that in itself would create complications



I mean even though it does work that way there would still be negotiations on how much Sora would cost and if Disney would let Square get a portion of the cut because they work on the games Sora is from. There's still possibilities of complications

Sony's handling of Spider-Man with their own universe was annoying and I also have hated a lot of their decisions they've made. But with this deal specifically, I do side with Sony. I don't think Sony was completely dead set on moving Spider-Man to their universe yet because they wanted to renew the current deal they had. That was the deal they wanted to keep before the 50/50 deal was brought up. I'd also argue even if Disney was offering a 70/30 split, you'd still be losing money. Not as much sure, but it still wouldn't be entirely fair. Especially since I haven't found anything that stated that Disney would let them get a cut of the Spider-Man merchandise, as well as a cut of the crossover films Spider-Man is in

I get a corporations job is to make money. That's totally fine. Part of the reason I'm with Sony on this is because the 50/50 deal would've really not be financially smart to take. But at the same time, there does come a point where you end up pushing it and becoming unreasonable and even though I get you want to make money to invest in projects and pay employees, you can do so in ways that are reasonable which I don't feel the 50/50 deal was. Sony did benefit from the previous deal sure, but I don't think Disney was getting the short end of the stick because they still make millions with Spidey regardless. While the loss for Spider-Man in the MCU does hurt both companies, I don't think it's that big. Sony proved with Venom and ITSV that they're more than capable of making it without Disney. And Disney is well Disney. It's a shame about Spidey, but they'll both be fine

I just want to insert my two cents in here real quick on that Spider-Man stuff.

The latest Spider-Man movie crossed a billion dollars, and that's nice and all, but Sony does not get to take in all the money made from that film. First dollar is shared with Disney/Marvel, and that company now wants to see bigger cuts of the pie. Take that into account and consider the success of last year's Venom film, which grossed almost 850 mil (almost as much as Homecoming), with Sony getting a good chunk of that cash (Venom's success in China will likely please their partner, Tencent, who were involved with financing, marketing, and distributing the film over there) and Sony would have to consider which IP looks more lucrative and makes more business sense right now. Also consider that a proper Spider-Man vs Venom is also hot in demand, and an eventual fight against Carnage has event potential at the cinemas, one very key player is missing from this equation, and that's Spider-Man himself. I see a lot of reasons to take Spider-Man back beyond negotiation mishaps with Disney.

MCU fans will be mad for now, but going forward, I think the ball is in Sony's court and they can change public opinion if they play their cards right (and I have a huge interest in them doing so as I don't like the MCU or their version of Spider-Man). Spider-Man has a very rich universe. They have to get the right people involved and produce quality content. Unfortunately, we don't know what their plans are exactly at this time. They supposedly have 5-6 TV shows in development that are within the 'Spider-Verse' or SUMC (Miller and Lord are likely producing all those) and a number of movie projects rumored and confirmed to be in development (Arad, Tolmach, and Pascal likely producing those). We'll see what happens there.

For Sora, the situation is a bit different. Sakurai once said that they almost couldn't get the rights for all the characters back, and it's rumored Cloud almost didn't make the cut for Ultimate. To get Sora in Smash, Nintendo will still need to negotiate with Disney, as he's their character, even if they'd defer most of the decisions and supervision to Nomura (who designed Cloud and is heading the FFVII remake). If Cloud was a problem, I could see Sora being another big hoop to jump through since another big company will have to be involved, but Smash is huge, so it's possible. It'll probably come with limitations (like no other Disney characters/worlds), and how big those limitations are will account for whether Sakurai feels he can make a great fighter with him or not, and whether a stage should accompany the character and what music can be included. And of course money will be important. If Sora is too expensive to get, when other IP's are cheaper to license (or just include Nintendo's own highly demanded characters) that can play a role on whether they decide to jump through that hurdle or not.

As for audience, going around youtube, I do feel female gamers/streamers are particularly interested in having Sora join the roster. They're not a particularly huge base for Smash, but I think Sora will bring appeal to that crowd with his inclusion. Whether his inclusion would be best for DLC or a whole new game is another question, but since Sakurai wants to expand on a cross-over record here, they might at least gun for DLC if Sakurai thinks Sora would fit well in Smash.

The future is anyone's guess right now. Negotiations are going on as we speak, and development on these additional fighters beyond pack 5 has no doubt already been underway. Who did they choose? We might get a peak or hint at the end of this year, or we'll probably have to wait till the next to find out. And then speculation and requests will continue from there. :D

 

[Icewolff92]

That's a good point. But if Disney was the only non-video game IP represented in Smash and no other fourth party was included, even Dragonball, it wouldn't be the worse thing. I don't think it would ruin the idea that Smash is a monument to video game history. And again, they could easily just avoid this problem by removing any Disney references to Sora.

I mean, people can say all they want at "it could just be an exception".. it could be open the door, for the close it right away... But we know that wouldn¨t be the cause, because if it were, then we would never have had

Mega Man
Pac Man
Ken
Ryu
Bayonetta
Joker
Banjo Kazooie
Bellmonts
Cloud
Hero
Snake
Sonic

all in the same game if Sakurai and Nintendo had the same mentality after Brawl

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I mean, people can say all they want at "it could just be an exception".. it could be open the door, for the close it right away... But we know that wouldn¨t be the cause, because if it were, then we would never have had

Mega Man
Pac Man
Ken
Ryu
Bayonetta
Joker
Banjo Kazooie
Bellmonts
Cloud
Hero
Snake
Sonic

all in the same game if Sakurai and Nintendo had the same mentality after Brawl

That list is just jawbreaking isn't it? It's surreal to see all those iconic or popular 3rd party characters in Smash to me since I started playing Smash during Melee when there wasn't any 3rd party characters whatsoever.

 

[SwitchButton]

Kingdom Hearts is a one-of-a-kind phenomenon that will never happen again in this industry. You're not going to randomly get a multi-million dollar "Dragon Ball Z x Assassin's Creed" RPG franchise for example. On those grounds characters like Mickey, Donald, and Goofy are completely OK to make cameo appearances. Especially since their KH incarnations are exclusive to KH. "King Mickey" doesn't exist outside of the Kingdom Hearts series, for example.
Please remember that Dracula, a non-video game character, is a boss in Smash Brothers Ultimate. He was allowed into the game because he uses an incarnation that is exclusive to Castlevania.

Mickey Mouse was also mentioned by NAME in Brawl, so at the very least Sora's keychain will not be an issue.

Also, There is nothing to suggest that Disney is hard to work with. Nintendo collabs with Disney on a regular basis, and Disney has licensed their characters out to gaming crossovers before. Like how Wreck-It Ralph was in the Sonic the Hedgehog racing game. Disney has also gone on record stating that they would be willing to collaborate for Sora in Smash.

Also "Fourth Party" isn't a real term. Stop using it. Characters originating from outside of games are still "Third party" characters.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

With that logic, you could argue that Goku should then get involved due to how many Dragon Balls there is out there (which is already a big argument for Goku for those that don¨t care about Smash should be a videogame celebration). So no, they shouldn¨t be involved, because you can use their inclusion as an argument for.. well like I previously stated.It would just be a new Sonic/Snake spiral

Smash is supposed to be about videogames aka characters that originate from videogames, not become Mugen which it would basically be if we started added Goofy or Donald if Sora would be included.

You're saying it as if a mass list of Shonen characters will spontaneously appear in the game if one 4th party character gets a measely cameo on a single stage, Sure people will start requesting for these characters more but that doesn't mean Sakurai has to respond to every single request with a fighter (Sans and Waluigi come to mind).