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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Datboigeno

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A bit off the Geno speculation discussion, yet still related to Geno's roots. I believe that till this day, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars is perhaps the most unique (if not one of the most unique) crossover the Mario franchise has had throughout its history. Sure, starting in the N64 we continued Mario's venture into RPG with Paper Mario, and later Mario & Luigi came along, but SMRPG just has this unique essence to it (thanks to Squaresoft back then). The visual aesthetic, the battle mechanics, the enemies, the plot, characters (GENOOOOOOO); the game was certainly ahead of its time, and boy was that good. It's aged like the finest wine in the world, yet it's still seen as a niche/obscure game of the SNES era. It's like a diamond in the rough that hasn't been polished; not because it hasn't been found, but nobody has dared to polish it yet. The desire for having Geno in Smash aside, a revival of this game would really be something.
I don't really know if SMRPG technically can be considered a crossover though. It's more of a spin-off/part of a side series of the Mario games. But yeah I feel like a lot of people who weren't alive/cognizant at the time the game came out underrate just how unique it is as far as Mario games go and how much of a trailblazer it was for storytelling and humor within Mario games that has stayed pretty consistent in the years since. It was the first game that showed Mario enemies could be a little more creative than just off-shoots of goombas, koopa troopas, etc. And yeah the timing based battle mechanics of the game really caught on and used for several games in the decades since its release. I think that a lot of people try to come up with a narrative that the reason the game is now seen as niche is because it somehow wasn't very popular at the time or something about the game itself was flawed. It's genuinely just because nothing from it has been able to be used for decades due to legal reasons which makes it all the more frustrating.
 
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Houndstooth

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I like this talk of other characters that we would like to see alongside Geno. Geno is definitely my most wanted, but now that the other slots "feel" more open, there are some others I would like to see.

Doom Guy could make sense with the history of the FPS mindset. But, I would much rather have Master Chief. With Phil making B/K come true, I think throwing more love Microsoft's way makes sense. Halo really made console FPS gaming feel good with the twin sticks. Would love to see 117 in Smash.

I have never really been a Crash fan, but he was PlayStation when I was a kid. I still think of Crash when I think about PS. Not really sure who we would call "the face of Playstation" now, but Crash would really being that old school mascot hype. I guess Chief kinda does that too? Would be a lot of fun to see.

Anyway, hoping to hear something soon. FP4 is gonna be fun to watch. But woe to FP5. So many fanbases are gonna be salty and that fifth character is gonna catch some hate.
 

link2702

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Yeah it’s inevitable that whoever fp5 is, they’re gonna be salt inducing, even if it’s the most obvious, safest pick possible, the lead up to, and eventual reveal is gonna have many groups at each other’s throats. It’s also why I do hope geno is next, and not 5 or a bonus, because even though I’d be thrilled to finally have him in smash, the hate our group gets will probably be extreme if he’s fp5, maybe more so if he’s a bonus...

I actually kinda think it would have been better if banjo was 5...there’s practically no way people could be salty over him. Him being the most impossible, yet one of the most nostalgic wants since melee, means that if he was 5, he’d still likely have the reception he got when he was revealed awhile back. Ending on banjo would have been the safest solution.

Of course...him being revealed so soon means I get to play him sooner so....
 
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Ovaltine

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Yeah it’s inevitable that whoever fp5 is, they’re gonna be salt inducing, even if it’s the most obvious, safest pick possible, the lead up to, and eventual reveal is gonna have many groups at each other’s throats. It’s also why I do hope geno is next, and not 5 or a bonus, because even though I’d be thrilled to finally have him in smash, the hate our group gets will probably be extreme if he’s fp5, maybe more so if he’s a bonus...

I actually kinda think it would have been better if banjo was 5...there’s practically no way people could be salty over him. Him being the most impossible, yet one of the most nostalgic wants since melee, means that if he was 5, he’d still likely have the reception he got when he was revealed awhile back. Ending on banjo would have been the safest solution.

Of course...him being revealed so soon means I get to play him sooner so....
Nintendo doesn't know how to end on a safe solution, let's be real, and... it's nigh impossible to when it comes to Smash anyway. I mean, the last game ended on Corrin and poor Bayonetta. Corrin, I get the salt for, but my wife did not deserve that fate :mad088:
 

SpiritOfRuin

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Undertale released on September 15th, 2015 while the ballot ended on October 3rd of that year. It didn’t have any time to reach the popularity it now has and be in the ballot. Nintendo already treats it like it’s not just an indie, anyway, assuming the game being an indie even matters when it comes to Smash.

Although Crash is certainly bigger.
This. Also Crash IS bigger I just personally don't see him getting in even tho it would be really cool to see all these mascots face off. Just an opinion though and I'd be happy to be wrong as Crash is my third most wanted character (even wanted more than an Undertale rep). But I just think Undertale is more likely to get representation in Ultimate. Idk I have a feeling about Frisk I guess.

Also others have brought up the dreaded age old pacifism argument. Please explain to me how animal crossing reps are in then. The game encourages both pacifism and genocide to get the full story. It takes the pacifist choice away from you against Asgore. You can literally to choose to fight if you want. The game is about choice and tho it encourages pacifism it is NOT all about pacifism it is about a lot more than that. The human could easily show this kind of choice in how his moveset worked not to mention the different colored souls add a ton of moveset potential. I love Crash but let's face it spinning, jumping, and eating fruit can't compare to all the things the human would be able to do. It's not even close.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Yeah it’s inevitable that whoever fp5 is, they’re gonna be salt inducing, even if it’s the most obvious, safest pick possible, the lead up to, and eventual reveal is gonna have many groups at each other’s throats. It’s also why I do hope geno is next, and not 5 or a bonus, because even though I’d be thrilled to finally have him in smash, the hate our group gets will probably be extreme if he’s fp5, maybe more so if he’s a bonus...

I actually kinda think it would have been better if banjo was 5...there’s practically no way people could be salty over him. Him being the most impossible, yet one of the most nostalgic wants since melee, means that if he was 5, he’d still likely have the reception he got when he was revealed awhile back. Ending on banjo would have been the safest solution.

Of course...him being revealed so soon means I get to play him sooner so....
Eh, people should expect every character reveal pattern to end with something experimental by now. They get the most noteworthy hardest to get/to make stuff out of the way as top priority, and save what's basically a bonus/extra fluff for the end. Regardless of the end, you still get a good game before that point anyways (especially Ultimate).

And at least Sakurai warned us to only buy the pass if one is confident enough in getting what they want. Nobody at Capcom ever did something like that for any of their Street Fighter DLC, least of all their SFV season 2 pass that only had a single returning fighter, and the rest were newcomers (especially Abigail, which absolutely no one expected to get as a Final Fight character.

In any case, I hope the confirmation of further DLC will be revealed as soon as the pass is complete. I understand playing it safe in case there somehow isn't enough demand for more DLC, proper enough balance or enough sales, but it annoys me to see how Three Houses had all their DLC plans outlined right off the bat, so it kinda seems unfair that that game gets the privilege.
 
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Evil Trapezium

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This. Also Crash IS bigger I just personally don't see him getting in even tho it would be really cool to see all these mascots face off. Just an opinion though and I'd be happy to be wrong as Crash is my third most wanted character (even wanted more than an Undertale rep). But I just think Undertale is more likely to get representation in Ultimate. Idk I have a feeling about Frisk I guess.

Also others have brought up the dreaded age old pacifism argument. Please explain to me how animal crossing reps are in then. The game encourages both pacifism and genocide to get the full story. It takes the pacifist choice away from you against Asgore. You can literally to choose to fight if you want. The game is about choice and tho it encourages pacifism it is NOT all about pacifism it is about a lot more than that. The human could easily show this kind of choice in how his moveset worked not to mention the different colored souls add a ton of moveset potential. I love Crash but let's face it spinning, jumping, and eating fruit can't compare to all the things the human would be able to do. It's not even close.
I don't see much of a moveset potential for Frisk. They can use a knife, tough gloves, ballet shoes, Torn notebook, Burnt pan and an empty gun. There is also the bullet hell thing that happens when an enemy attacks but I don't know how that can be incorporated into a moveset.

Keep in mind, most if not all third party characters stay true to the games they appear in which include Snake, Sonic, Megaman, Ryu/Ken, Cloud, Bayonetta, Simon/Richter, Joker, Hero and Banjo & Kazooie. The only odd ball is Pac-Man who is just a representative of Namco as a whole. Frisk has only made one appearance in a game and is not very animated which leaves a lot to be desired to imagine how they would move, their facial expressions, etc.
 
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SpiritOfRuin

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I don't see much of a moveset potential for Frisk. They can use a knife, tough gloves, ballet shoes, Torn notebook, Burnt pan and an empty gun. There is also the bullet hell thing that happens when an enemy attacks but I don't know how that can be incorporated into a moveset.

Keep in mind, most if not all third party characters stay true to the games they appear in which include Snake, Sonic, Megaman, Ryu/Ken, Cloud, Bayonetta, Simon/Richter, Joker, Hero and Banjo & Kazooie. The only odd ball is Pac-Man who is just a representative of Namco as a whole. Frisk has only made one appearance in a game and is not very animated which leaves a lot to be desired to imagine how they would move, their facial expressions, etc.
Well to each his own. I assume you've played the games since you're aware of all the items he can use. I'm referring to other things like an aggression/passive mechanic that actually changes your appearance to something else that I'm not going to spoil for those who haven't played the game when you're being more aggressive. The different colored souls that could be incorporated in many ways. For example, your down b could change the color of your soul. The color of your soul would affect all your special attacks (ie yellow involves projectiles, purple involves horizontal dodging, blue involves gravity somehow, half orange half blue would be really interesting, etc). Even just affecting all other special attacks is a lot of unique moveset potential but if they expanded this to other attacks like Aerials or smash attacks as well that becomes one of the more bottomless and varied movepools. I don't think characters need to be "expressive" to be in Smash they just need to be unique. Let's say with red soul frisk uses items from the game in his attacks then you switch to yellow and now your side aerials work like villagers instead of swinging your toy knife. and your smash attacks have increased range and different appearance because youre shooting yellow bullets out of your yellow soul. You're really selling Frisk short if you're not thinking about possibilities like these because there is a lot more than just items to pull inspiration from in the game. Again Crash is a more wanted character for me because I love Crash games and seeing mascots like him against the likes of Mario and MegaMan is just an awesome idea, but his movepool seems like it'd be uninspiring compared to other dlc characters whereas Frisk does not suffer the same issue due to the varied gameplay mechanics of Undertale.
 
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I'd love for Crash to be included in this game, but considering we only have 2 fighter pass characters left and that Smash NEVER ends on an explosive note, I've come to think he probably won't happen. I'd absolutely LOVE to be wrong though. Maybe ending with a bang will be a first for Smash. Then again, maybe not. :(
 

Door Key Pig

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I'd love for Crash to be included in this game, but considering we only have 2 fighter pass characters left and that Smash NEVER ends on an explosive note, I've come to think he probably won't happen. I'd absolutely LOVE to be wrong though. Maybe ending with a bang will be a first for Smash. Then again, maybe not. :(
Maybe don't fret man; out of the six base game unique fighters we got, the fourth and fifth were the neat King K Rool and Isabelle, only was the sixth the "obligatory Pokemon rep".
 
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Maybe don't fret man; out of the six base game unique fighters we got, the fourth and fifth were the neat King K Rool and Isabelle, only was the sixth the "obligatory Pokemon rep".
But I still have my doubts, since, again, we're on the last two fighter pass characters and it's likely Crash won't be one of them. I'd love to be wrong.
 

Door Key Pig

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But I still have my doubts, since, again, we're on the last two fighter pass characters and it's likely Crash won't be one of them. I'd love to be wrong.
I mean hey if they at least end it on a certain less exciting, more niche Nintendo character choice I'd like, I'd gladly partake in that hypothetical anticlimax!
 

Firox

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I'd love for Crash to be included in this game, but considering we only have 2 fighter pass characters left and that Smash NEVER ends on an explosive note, I've come to think he probably won't happen. I'd absolutely LOVE to be wrong though. Maybe ending with a bang will be a first for Smash. Then again, maybe not. :(
I can only pray that we don't end the DLC on a totally stupid note. I swear, if DLC #5 is Galarian Zigzagoon or "generic Fire Emblem sword fighter #6", I'm gonna riot. That said, I still think that something like Sephiroth or Masterchief could still blow people's minds regardless of the inevitable salt.
 
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AmphabulouSnake

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I love how literally everone is on the idea that the last character HAS to be an underwhelming/odd/trash character just because the base game rosters ended on odd characters lmao
You're allowed to think outside the box lol Smash is all about breaking conventions (fanmade ones even...)

EDIT : ALSO the only way the 5th character won't get any hate is if a Fighters Pass 2 is announced right after lol
 
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Nemuresu

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Nintendo doesn't know how to end on a safe solution, let's be real, and... it's nigh impossible to when it comes to Smash anyway. I mean, the last game ended on Corrin and poor Bayonetta. Corrin, I get the salt for, but my wife did not deserve that fate :mad088:
Nintendo=/=Sakurai

Sakurai said that Corrin was already pushing it, so I personally wouldn't expect him to pull something like that again. Nintendo so far? Only delivered on brand-new franchises, and if they wanted promotional character, I'm sure we would've seen them already.
 

AugustusB

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Nintendo=/=Sakurai

Sakurai said that Corrin was already pushing it, so I personally wouldn't expect him to pull something like that again. Nintendo so far? Only delivered on brand-new franchises, and if they wanted promotional character, I'm sure we would've seen them already.
To a degree, I agree with you. However, Hero is absolutely a promotional pick (To me at least). Whether that was just Nintendo's say is a different story. It is pretty obvious with Sakurai doing the "Let's Play" of Hero. Through out, he plugged Dragon Quest 11 S DE. Joker did not get that with either P5R or P5S so...seems promotional to me.

To each their own, I suppose.
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

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To a degree, I agree with you. However, Hero is absolutely a promotional pick (To me at least). Whether that was just Nintendo's say is a different story. It is pretty obvious with Sakurai doing the "Let's Play" of Hero. Through out, he plugged Dragon Quest 11 S DE. Joker did not get that with either P5R or P5S so...seems promotional to me.

To each their own, I suppose.
I think there's really three kinds of characters, and you're treating it like there's only two kinds. Fan picks, corporate picks, and Sakurai picks. I do think Hero was more of a promotional/corporate pick, but it's very possible Sakurai just wanted them, too.

The way I see it, so far we've gotten one of each with this fighters pass so far. The remaining two are probably going to be another fan pick and another Sakurai pick IMO.
 

Nemuresu

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To a degree, I agree with you. However, Hero is absolutely a promotional pick (To me at least). Whether that was just Nintendo's say is a different story. It is pretty obvious with Sakurai doing the "Let's Play" of Hero. Through out, he plugged Dragon Quest 11 S DE. Joker did not get that with either P5R or P5S so...seems promotional to me.

To each their own, I suppose.
Hero definitely has some promotional purposes behind, but the difference between him and say, Edelgard, is that Hero works way better as an advertisement, since DQXI is coming next month and giving people a flavour of what is in the game could convince them to buy it, while stuff like another FE character would come months later.

Also, Hero has alts and music from older games, so he doesn't offer XI content only.
 

AugustusB

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I think there's really three kinds of characters, and you're treating it like there's only two kinds. Fan picks, corporate picks, and Sakurai picks. I do think Hero was more of a promotional/corporate pick, but it's very possible Sakurai just wanted them, too.

The way I see it, so far we've gotten one of each with this fighters pass so far. The remaining two are probably going to be another fan pick and another Sakurai pick IMO.
I didn't mean to leave Sakurai out of the equation. He is a fan of DQ and could have been by his own accord. However, the way Hero was presented was very Corporate heavy. "Don't forget to advertise the game Hero is from!".
So with your logic. Sakurai pick = Joker, Banjo = Fan and Hero = Corporate then? It makes sense.
Nemuresu Nemuresu totally agree with your new post. I misread your first post. So yeah, nvm lol
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

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I didn't mean to leave Sakurai out of the equation. He is a fan of DQ and could have been by his own accord. However, the way Hero was presented was very Corporate heavy. "Don't forget to advertise the game Hero is from!".
So with your logic. Sakurai pick = Joker, Banjo = Fan and Hero = Corporate then? It makes sense.
Nemuresu Nemuresu totally agree with your new post. I misread your first post. So yeah, nvm lol
Yeah, obviously Sakurai likes every character he puts in to some degree, but Joker is definitely the kind of character that would never get in unless Sakurai made it happen.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I love how literally everone is on the idea that the last character HAS to be an underwhelming/odd/trash character just because the base game rosters ended on odd characters lmao
You're allowed to think outside the box lol Smash is all about breaking conventions (fanmade ones even...)

EDIT : ALSO the only way the 5th character won't get any hate is if a Fighters Pass 2 is announced right after lol
but then FP10 will be the one getting buttloads of hate, rip
 

AugustusB

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Yeah, obviously Sakurai likes every character he puts in to some degree, but Joker is definitely the kind of character that would never get in unless Sakurai made it happen.
So if I may, in your opinion, what would be the last 2 characters? Going by another Fan pick and Sakurai pick. I agree that it feels like that is the way it is going.

Would Geno be considered a Fan pick or a Sakurai pick? That almost seems like a double whammy pick. The combination of Crash, Doom Guy and Geno seems like the most viable between these two picks (Though, Capcom or Namco could get a rep, but I personally do not see it). Unless, Sakurai goes left field and throws in someone NEVER thought of as his pick.
 
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wynn728

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I for the life of me will never understand the appeal of Crash, character and game wise.
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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So if I may, in your opinion, what would be the last 2 characters? Going by another Fan pick and Sakurai pick. I agree that it feels like that is the way it is going.

Would Geno be considered a Fan pick or a Sakurai pick? That almost seems like a double whammy pick. The combination of Crash, Doom Guy and Geno seems like the most viable between these two picks (Though, Capcom or Namco could get a rep, but I personally do not see it). Unless, Sakurai goes left field and throws in someone NEVER thought of as his pick.
I don't think Geno would be a Sakurai pick. If it weren't for fan demand, he wouldn't care to put in Geno. He just thinks the character is cool and would like to make the fans happy by giving him a moveset.

As far as who I think the last two are? I don't have any idea lmao. I don't think Doom Guy is as likely as people seem to suggest, there hasn't really been anything pointing to him being in at all. Ditto for Crash? Wishful thinking says we'd get Geno as a fan pick and some random character Sakurai likes. Or Geno and a shill pick, which would probably be a character from Capcom if you ask me. I think Geno is almost certainly going to be DLC at some point, but as far as other 3rd party characters go... I don't really care or have any stock in it.
 

Evil Trapezium

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Well to each his own. I assume you've played the games since you're aware of all the items he can use. I'm referring to other things like an aggression/passive mechanic that actually changes your appearance to something else that I'm not going to spoil for those who haven't played the game when you're being more aggressive.
You haven't really explained this mechanic. While the Aggressive mode is pretty much explanatory, passive mode would require you to not attack your opponent which is contradictory to Super Smash Bros. My question to you is how can this be incorporated?

The different colored souls that could be incorporated in many ways. For example, your down b could change the color of your soul. The color of your soul would affect all your special attacks (ie yellow involves projectiles, purple involves horizontal dodging, blue involves gravity somehow, half orange half blue would be really interesting, etc). Even just affecting all other special attacks is a lot of unique moveset potential but if they expanded this to other attacks like Aerials or smash attacks as well that becomes one of the more bottomless and varied movepools.

Let's say with red soul frisk uses items from the game in his attacks then you switch to yellow and now your side aerials work like villagers instead of swinging your toy knife. and your smash attacks have increased range and different appearance because youre shooting yellow bullets out of your yellow soul. You're really selling Frisk short if you're not thinking about possibilities like these because there is a lot more than just items to pull inspiration from in the game.
The way you're talking about the souls sounds like Monado Arts (Funnily enough they have the same colours as well) to me which would be better suited as a Neutral Special. What you've said about the souls sounds rather complicated. If I can get this straight, you're suggesting that the souls will be able to power up Frisk's moves and also give them new attack moves? While that is a decent way for souls to work, the souls don't really do any attacks besides the yellow one and it would take a lot of time to make two unique movesets for a character. If you could tell me what other special moves that you think Frisk can do (Being Up, Down and Side Special) then I could probably try and visualise what you're thinking a bit better.
 

3DSNinja

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Watch BrawlFan1's Frisk moveset.
Although I think that Sans and Papyrus would be my pick (again, BrawlFan1 has an incredible moveset) Frisk would be cool.
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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You haven't really explained this mechanic. While the Aggressive mode is pretty much explanatory, passive mode would require you to not attack your opponent which is contradictory to Super Smash Bros. My question to you is how can this be incorporated?



The way you're talking about the souls sounds like Monado Arts (Funnily enough they have the same colours as well) to me which would be better suited as a Neutral Special. What you've said about the souls sounds rather complicated. If I can get this straight, you're suggesting that the souls will be able to power up Frisk's moves and also give them new attack moves? While that is a decent way for souls to work, the souls don't really do any attacks besides the yellow one and it would take a lot of time to make two unique movesets for a character. If you could tell me what other special moves that you think Frisk can do (Being Up, Down and Side Special) then I could probably try and visualise what you're thinking a bit better.
I came up with a pretty cool moveset for Frisk, actually. I already posted it in the Frisk supporter thread, but I'll repost it here if it helps you picture the whole pacifist/murderous thing.

Frisk Moveset

General Idea:
Undertale is a game where you get stronger when you fight, but the ultimate goal is to spare everyone and be kind. Thus, the moveset will revolve around getting stronger by doing damage, but being able to spare enemies to get rid of bad karma

Gimmick:
Frisk has a LOVE meter (level of violence) above their percentage.
Whenever frisk deals damage it will fill up the meter proportionally to the damage dealt, and taking a stock will fill the meter by as much as doing 50%.
Taking damage has no effect on the meter, but losing a stock resets the meter to 0%/
The more full the meter is, the more damage/knockback some moves will have. However, the higher your LOVE is, the lower your mobility, and it becomes harder to dodge attacks. However, you can use certain moves to get rid of LOVE and do powerful sparing moves.

Stats:
Movement-
By default, ground and air speed would be similar to Ness, but with more air acceleration. this would make frisk easy to weave in and out and avoid attacks. They have 1 standard double jump.
However, when LOVE gets higher, air acceleration gets worse, and dash turnaround takes longer, making it easy to keep running in, but punishable if you run away. LOVE also reduces the invulnerability on dodges.
Weight would be average, at about 94. (similar to ness or inkling)

Special Moves:
Up B- Bird That Carries You Over A Disproportionately Small Gap
Similar to one of megaman's custom moves in smash 4, a bird will fly to frisk's hands and grab him, flying him straight up, with some variance in exact angle. no hitbox, standard recovery.
if your LOVE is too high, the bird won't want to help, not lifting as much. at 75-99% LOVE, the bird has a chance to not appear at all. at 100% LOVE, the bird will not show up, and this move will be about as good for recovery as Yoshi's up b, forcing you to rely on your double jump for recovery.

Side B- Shank
Frisk will use a knife, differing depending on how full LOVE meter is, and do a very short-range powerful attack that drastically scales with LOVE. this attack has a crumple effect similar to Ryu or Ridley's down b.
-at 0%-25% LOVE, they will use the toy knife, very little damage but enough hitstun to be positive on-hit
-at 26-75% LOVE, they will use the worn dagger, which deals decent damage (20-30%) and enough hitstun for a followup
-at 76%-100% LOVE, they will use the real knife, which can deal up to 50% damage, but not enough hitstun for a true followup (tech chase)

Down B- Spare
Frisk will try to hug the enemy, a command grab attack similar to Wario's bite. It can't be shielded.
Using this move, whether it hits or not, will lower your LOVE by 20%, but the more LOVE you have, the longer this move takes. Whiffing this move is likely to get you hit by a smash attack.
Damage dealt by this move will NOT fill up your LOVE meter.
-at 0% LOVE, this move will remove a stock from any opponent above 130%. (similar to some final smashes) Otherwise, it deals around 30% and has very high knockback that may kill before 130% near the ledge.
-at 1%-99% LOVE, it deals damage equal to about half of your LOVE and removes all of it (if it hits)
-at 100% LOVE, should this move actually hit your opponent, you get dunked on and lose a stock. With how slow the move is, your opponent can likely react and get hit on purpose to kill you.

Neutral B- SAVE
If you don't want to risk using spare to get rid of your LOVE, you have another option.
SAVE will fill frisk with determination, and slowly drain their LOVE, Similar to Cloud's down b. Using down b to get rid of LOVE is slightly faster, but this option is much less risky.
However, at 100% LOVE, this move will not reduce your meter. Instead, it will heal you very slowly. This is to make it a lot harder to lose your LOVE if you reach 100%, as you’re forced to use down b.

Normals:
For normals that involve a knife, frisk will use the same knife as in side b, but this is a cosmetic effect and has no impact on damage/knockback.
For certain moves, your LOVE being high will make you use an entirely different attack.
Jab- A simple 1,2,3 combo with tough gloves. The gentlemen 3rd hit is a jab with the knife, but rapid jab keeps using gloves.
-At 100% LOVE, you cannot use rapid jab.
F-Tilt- Frisk wields the empty gun, which doesn’t fire a bullet but the "BANG" hurts enemies.
D-Tilt- Frisk does a leg sweep with the ballet shoes.
U-Tilt- Frisk does a large sweeping anti-air with the knife.
Dash Attack- Similar to dedede's dash attack, Frisk falls flat on their face.
-When above 50% LOVE, dash attack is instead a very quick sliding stab (think cutter dash in kirby)

N-air- Frisk pulls out the torn notebook and closes it to puff out pages, similar in function to greninja's nair
F-air- Similar to ftilt, but it launches frisk backward with some momentum
-When above 50% LOVE, F-air is instead a horizontal knife slash
Bair- frisk pulls out the heart locket and swings it backward, this move has a shield effect similar to Palutena's B-air
-When above 50% LOVE, Frisk swings the frying pan backwards instead, no shielding effect, slower move
D-air- Ballet shoes tap dancing, similar to Lucas’s D-air.
U-air- Frisk swings knife upward in an arc, decent for juggling.

Smash attacks:
All of frisk's smash attacks have 3 variations. At 0% LOVE, they will not fill up the meter on hit but still deal damage and knockback.
Pacifist smash attacks are only available at 0% LOVE, Neutral smash attacks are at 1-74%, and Genocide smash attacks are at 75-100%.
Pacifist side smash- Frisk blows a kiss projectile.
Pacifist up smash- Frisk sings, music note projectiles float directly above them.
Pacifist down smash- Frisk flexes, hitting on both sides. (and grossing out temmie)
Neutral side smash- Frisk uses the frying pan, similar to Peach’s F-smash.
Neutral up smash- Frisk uses the tough gloves for a strong uppercut. Has a slow startup like Wolf’s F-smash.
Neutral down smash- Frisk crouches down and doesn't move, their soul turns blue, and a light blue knife passes over them to hit both sides.
Genocide smash attacks are generic knife smash attacks, Up and Forward Smash are pretty much the same as Joker’s, Down smash attacks both sides with a stab poke.

Frisk's dodges work like teleport dodges (Mewtwo/Palutena/etc), but Frisk doesn't disappear, instead being replaced by their soul (heart) while invulnerable.

Taunts:
Frisk has 2 taunts for each slot. One for 0-49% LOVE, and one for 50-100% LOVE.
Up taunt 1- Frisk pulls out a cell phone to talk to someone, then puts it away. Sound effects play to denote who they’re talking to, which is randomly chosen like Pacman’s Namco Roulette.
Up taunt 2- The “Spare” button appears in front of Frisk, before being sliced in half.
Side taunt 1- Frisk’s body disappears and is replaced by their soul, which floats around for a second before Frisk comes back.
Side taunt 2- A dummy appears, Frisk punches it, and then it gets angry with that sound effect.
Down taunt 1- An annoying dog appears and runs circles around Frisk while barking at them, making Frisk dizzy.
Down taunt 2- Chara’s demonic laugh, including the terrifying evil face.

Final Smash-
I’m sure after reading the rest of the moveset you never would’ve guessed- Frisk has more than one Final Smash. However, instead of being entirely based on LOVE, you can choose which one to use.
When activated, Frisk will dash forward and time will freeze around them and the person they hit. The screen will transition to look like an Undertale battle menu, with each fighter having white pixel art to match the style. The option to FIGHT or SPARE will show up, which can be selected similar to Shulk’s Monado Arts. (hold left or right to decide, it automatically selects after about a second)
-If you choose FIGHT, then the other character will disappear and be replaced by a white heart (soul) before Frisk attacks and makes the soul split and then shatter, like what happens when you kill a boss in Undertale. This instantly kills above 100%, but will cause your LOVE to instantly reach 100% as well.
-If you choose SPARE, Frisk hugs the enemy, causing them to fade out and puff out smoke as if you had spared an enemy in Undertale. This instantly kills above 100%, but will cause your LOVE to instantly reach 0% as well.
 

CannonStreak

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I came up with a pretty cool moveset for Frisk, actually. I already posted it in the Frisk supporter thread, but I'll repost it here if it helps you picture the whole pacifist/murderous thing.

Frisk Moveset

General Idea:
Undertale is a game where you get stronger when you fight, but the ultimate goal is to spare everyone and be kind. Thus, the moveset will revolve around getting stronger by doing damage, but being able to spare enemies to get rid of bad karma

Gimmick:
Frisk has a LOVE meter (level of violence) above their percentage.
Whenever frisk deals damage it will fill up the meter proportionally to the damage dealt, and taking a stock will fill the meter by as much as doing 50%.
Taking damage has no effect on the meter, but losing a stock resets the meter to 0%/
The more full the meter is, the more damage/knockback some moves will have. However, the higher your LOVE is, the lower your mobility, and it becomes harder to dodge attacks. However, you can use certain moves to get rid of LOVE and do powerful sparing moves.

Stats:
Movement-
By default, ground and air speed would be similar to Ness, but with more air acceleration. this would make frisk easy to weave in and out and avoid attacks. They have 1 standard double jump.
However, when LOVE gets higher, air acceleration gets worse, and dash turnaround takes longer, making it easy to keep running in, but punishable if you run away. LOVE also reduces the invulnerability on dodges.
Weight would be average, at about 94. (similar to ness or inkling)

Special Moves:
Up B- Bird That Carries You Over A Disproportionately Small Gap
Similar to one of megaman's custom moves in smash 4, a bird will fly to frisk's hands and grab him, flying him straight up, with some variance in exact angle. no hitbox, standard recovery.
if your LOVE is too high, the bird won't want to help, not lifting as much. at 75-99% LOVE, the bird has a chance to not appear at all. at 100% LOVE, the bird will not show up, and this move will be about as good for recovery as Yoshi's up b, forcing you to rely on your double jump for recovery.

Side B- Shank
Frisk will use a knife, differing depending on how full LOVE meter is, and do a very short-range powerful attack that drastically scales with LOVE. this attack has a crumple effect similar to Ryu or Ridley's down b.
-at 0%-25% LOVE, they will use the toy knife, very little damage but enough hitstun to be positive on-hit
-at 26-75% LOVE, they will use the worn dagger, which deals decent damage (20-30%) and enough hitstun for a followup
-at 76%-100% LOVE, they will use the real knife, which can deal up to 50% damage, but not enough hitstun for a true followup (tech chase)

Down B- Spare
Frisk will try to hug the enemy, a command grab attack similar to Wario's bite. It can't be shielded.
Using this move, whether it hits or not, will lower your LOVE by 20%, but the more LOVE you have, the longer this move takes. Whiffing this move is likely to get you hit by a smash attack.
Damage dealt by this move will NOT fill up your LOVE meter.
-at 0% LOVE, this move will remove a stock from any opponent above 130%. (similar to some final smashes) Otherwise, it deals around 30% and has very high knockback that may kill before 130% near the ledge.
-at 1%-99% LOVE, it deals damage equal to about half of your LOVE and removes all of it (if it hits)
-at 100% LOVE, should this move actually hit your opponent, you get dunked on and lose a stock. With how slow the move is, your opponent can likely react and get hit on purpose to kill you.

Neutral B- SAVE
If you don't want to risk using spare to get rid of your LOVE, you have another option.
SAVE will fill frisk with determination, and slowly drain their LOVE, Similar to Cloud's down b. Using down b to get rid of LOVE is slightly faster, but this option is much less risky.
However, at 100% LOVE, this move will not reduce your meter. Instead, it will heal you very slowly. This is to make it a lot harder to lose your LOVE if you reach 100%, as you’re forced to use down b.

Normals:
For normals that involve a knife, frisk will use the same knife as in side b, but this is a cosmetic effect and has no impact on damage/knockback.
For certain moves, your LOVE being high will make you use an entirely different attack.
Jab- A simple 1,2,3 combo with tough gloves. The gentlemen 3rd hit is a jab with the knife, but rapid jab keeps using gloves.
-At 100% LOVE, you cannot use rapid jab.
F-Tilt- Frisk wields the empty gun, which doesn’t fire a bullet but the "BANG" hurts enemies.
D-Tilt- Frisk does a leg sweep with the ballet shoes.
U-Tilt- Frisk does a large sweeping anti-air with the knife.
Dash Attack- Similar to dedede's dash attack, Frisk falls flat on their face.
-When above 50% LOVE, dash attack is instead a very quick sliding stab (think cutter dash in kirby)

N-air- Frisk pulls out the torn notebook and closes it to puff out pages, similar in function to greninja's nair
F-air- Similar to ftilt, but it launches frisk backward with some momentum
-When above 50% LOVE, F-air is instead a horizontal knife slash
Bair- frisk pulls out the heart locket and swings it backward, this move has a shield effect similar to Palutena's B-air
-When above 50% LOVE, Frisk swings the frying pan backwards instead, no shielding effect, slower move
D-air- Ballet shoes tap dancing, similar to Lucas’s D-air.
U-air- Frisk swings knife upward in an arc, decent for juggling.

Smash attacks:
All of frisk's smash attacks have 3 variations. At 0% LOVE, they will not fill up the meter on hit but still deal damage and knockback.
Pacifist smash attacks are only available at 0% LOVE, Neutral smash attacks are at 1-74%, and Genocide smash attacks are at 75-100%.
Pacifist side smash- Frisk blows a kiss projectile.
Pacifist up smash- Frisk sings, music note projectiles float directly above them.
Pacifist down smash- Frisk flexes, hitting on both sides. (and grossing out temmie)
Neutral side smash- Frisk uses the frying pan, similar to Peach’s F-smash.
Neutral up smash- Frisk uses the tough gloves for a strong uppercut. Has a slow startup like Wolf’s F-smash.
Neutral down smash- Frisk crouches down and doesn't move, their soul turns blue, and a light blue knife passes over them to hit both sides.
Genocide smash attacks are generic knife smash attacks, Up and Forward Smash are pretty much the same as Joker’s, Down smash attacks both sides with a stab poke.

Frisk's dodges work like teleport dodges (Mewtwo/Palutena/etc), but Frisk doesn't disappear, instead being replaced by their soul (heart) while invulnerable.

Taunts:
Frisk has 2 taunts for each slot. One for 0-49% LOVE, and one for 50-100% LOVE.
Up taunt 1- Frisk pulls out a cell phone to talk to someone, then puts it away. Sound effects play to denote who they’re talking to, which is randomly chosen like Pacman’s Namco Roulette.
Up taunt 2- The “Spare” button appears in front of Frisk, before being sliced in half.
Side taunt 1- Frisk’s body disappears and is replaced by their soul, which floats around for a second before Frisk comes back.
Side taunt 2- A dummy appears, Frisk punches it, and then it gets angry with that sound effect.
Down taunt 1- An annoying dog appears and runs circles around Frisk while barking at them, making Frisk dizzy.
Down taunt 2- Chara’s demonic laugh, including the terrifying evil face.

Final Smash-
I’m sure after reading the rest of the moveset you never would’ve guessed- Frisk has more than one Final Smash. However, instead of being entirely based on LOVE, you can choose which one to use.
When activated, Frisk will dash forward and time will freeze around them and the person they hit. The screen will transition to look like an Undertale battle menu, with each fighter having white pixel art to match the style. The option to FIGHT or SPARE will show up, which can be selected similar to Shulk’s Monado Arts. (hold left or right to decide, it automatically selects after about a second)
-If you choose FIGHT, then the other character will disappear and be replaced by a white heart (soul) before Frisk attacks and makes the soul split and then shatter, like what happens when you kill a boss in Undertale. This instantly kills above 100%, but will cause your LOVE to instantly reach 100% as well.
-If you choose SPARE, Frisk hugs the enemy, causing them to fade out and puff out smoke as if you had spared an enemy in Undertale. This instantly kills above 100%, but will cause your LOVE to instantly reach 0% as well.
Not bad. I like it. This seems generally fitting to what Frisk does in Undertale. It fits him well. I wonder if Sakurai would make a moveset for Frisk if he was in just like how you made it, though?
 

Icewolff92

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,620
Just the fact that someone actually confirmed that they have talked about it should be a "red flag" for Doomslayer. I mean, they were secretive towards Grant Kirkhope for a while when they first asked him for the music piece that is in the reveal trailer for Banjo and he said that he had to have his mouth shut about it all once he knew.

Plus, that "promise" could just be about more games, be it ports or exclusive games for Switch. Heck it could be about the shadow drop of all the Doom games concidering when this article where published
 
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MisterMike

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
2,252
So if I may, in your opinion, what would be the last 2 characters?
Honestly, I have no idea. Banjo getting in was so big that I struggle to think of who they could include that would be even close to topping it. The only characters that come to mind are Crash, Doomguy, and Geno.
I for the life of me will never understand the appeal of Crash, character and game wise.
Solid platforming, ball-busting difficulty, and the satisfaction of breaking crates.
Just the fact that someone actually confirmed that they have talked about it should be a "red flag" for Doomslayer. I mean, they were secretive towards Grant Kirkhope for a while when they first asked him for the music piece that is in the reveal trailer for Banjo and he said that he had to have his mouth shut about it all once he knew.
But didn't Phil Spencer publicly state sometime before Banjo's reveal that Microsoft were approached by Nintendo with regards to Smash?
 

Icewolff92

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,620
But didn't Phil Spencer publicly state sometime before Banjo's reveal that Microsoft were approached by Nintendo with regards to Smash?
The question where "Are you still okay for Banjo to join" which he asked yes. Something he did even during the Smash 4 era. He did not say anything about they had talked nor that Banjo was in. This Bethesda person on the other hand downright confirms that they have talked about it. It could easily be everything to Bethesda trying to push a character of their subtle for Smash to them having a failed negotiation with Nintendo about it.
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
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Messages
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Location
Vancouver
Considering responding with "yes" to whether Bethesda has spoken with Nintendo about Smash answers literally nothing past the question itself, people are making quite the leap to assuming that means obviously nothing is happening. As if not actually disclosing anything breaks a non-disclosure.

I assume that argument is mostly coming from people who forgot or were unaware that last time a PlatinumGames employee shared that Sakurai had visited that studio. And it's not like Nintendo quickly made them retract that admission. Funny enough, last time when people were making the case for Bayonetta, no one was saying "if we were going to get Bayonetta, they wouldn't have shared that Sakurai went to the studio". Now some people see references as a negative. Last time it was actually the opposite. Several fans assumed Sakurai patronizing Platinum meant good things for either Wonder Red or Bayonetta. Turns out they were right about one of those. But it's still the fans who go from a to b.

Unlike with Bayo, now it's somehow eluded people that, whether last time with Platinum, or now with Bethesda, nothing was actually disclosed.

It could easily be everything to Bethesda trying to push a character of their subtle for Smash to them having a failed negotiation with Nintendo about it.
Right, and the fact that the implications are so wide-ranging means that they don't actually reveal anything specific.
 

Icewolff92

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
2,620
Right, and the fact that the implications are so wide-ranging means that they don't actually reveal anything specific.
There is a difference between asking the question of "would you be okay with" and answered a question if they have talked to Nintendo about Smash Brothers. Don¨t get me wrong, I¨m is indifferent to Doomslayer joining. Never cared about the franchise but I can understand why (if it happens) he would be included. But I argue that the answer to that question could be an NDA breaker (speaking as someone that has been under one) but then again, I don¨t work at Nintendo
 
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SpiritOfRuin

Smash Ace
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
737
I came up with a pretty cool moveset for Frisk, actually. I already posted it in the Frisk supporter thread, but I'll repost it here if it helps you picture the whole pacifist/murderous thing.

Frisk Moveset

General Idea:
Undertale is a game where you get stronger when you fight, but the ultimate goal is to spare everyone and be kind. Thus, the moveset will revolve around getting stronger by doing damage, but being able to spare enemies to get rid of bad karma

Gimmick:
Frisk has a LOVE meter (level of violence) above their percentage.
Whenever frisk deals damage it will fill up the meter proportionally to the damage dealt, and taking a stock will fill the meter by as much as doing 50%.
Taking damage has no effect on the meter, but losing a stock resets the meter to 0%/
The more full the meter is, the more damage/knockback some moves will have. However, the higher your LOVE is, the lower your mobility, and it becomes harder to dodge attacks. However, you can use certain moves to get rid of LOVE and do powerful sparing moves.

Stats:
Movement-
By default, ground and air speed would be similar to Ness, but with more air acceleration. this would make frisk easy to weave in and out and avoid attacks. They have 1 standard double jump.
However, when LOVE gets higher, air acceleration gets worse, and dash turnaround takes longer, making it easy to keep running in, but punishable if you run away. LOVE also reduces the invulnerability on dodges.
Weight would be average, at about 94. (similar to ness or inkling)

Special Moves:
Up B- Bird That Carries You Over A Disproportionately Small Gap
Similar to one of megaman's custom moves in smash 4, a bird will fly to frisk's hands and grab him, flying him straight up, with some variance in exact angle. no hitbox, standard recovery.
if your LOVE is too high, the bird won't want to help, not lifting as much. at 75-99% LOVE, the bird has a chance to not appear at all. at 100% LOVE, the bird will not show up, and this move will be about as good for recovery as Yoshi's up b, forcing you to rely on your double jump for recovery.

Side B- Shank
Frisk will use a knife, differing depending on how full LOVE meter is, and do a very short-range powerful attack that drastically scales with LOVE. this attack has a crumple effect similar to Ryu or Ridley's down b.
-at 0%-25% LOVE, they will use the toy knife, very little damage but enough hitstun to be positive on-hit
-at 26-75% LOVE, they will use the worn dagger, which deals decent damage (20-30%) and enough hitstun for a followup
-at 76%-100% LOVE, they will use the real knife, which can deal up to 50% damage, but not enough hitstun for a true followup (tech chase)

Down B- Spare
Frisk will try to hug the enemy, a command grab attack similar to Wario's bite. It can't be shielded.
Using this move, whether it hits or not, will lower your LOVE by 20%, but the more LOVE you have, the longer this move takes. Whiffing this move is likely to get you hit by a smash attack.
Damage dealt by this move will NOT fill up your LOVE meter.
-at 0% LOVE, this move will remove a stock from any opponent above 130%. (similar to some final smashes) Otherwise, it deals around 30% and has very high knockback that may kill before 130% near the ledge.
-at 1%-99% LOVE, it deals damage equal to about half of your LOVE and removes all of it (if it hits)
-at 100% LOVE, should this move actually hit your opponent, you get dunked on and lose a stock. With how slow the move is, your opponent can likely react and get hit on purpose to kill you.

Neutral B- SAVE
If you don't want to risk using spare to get rid of your LOVE, you have another option.
SAVE will fill frisk with determination, and slowly drain their LOVE, Similar to Cloud's down b. Using down b to get rid of LOVE is slightly faster, but this option is much less risky.
However, at 100% LOVE, this move will not reduce your meter. Instead, it will heal you very slowly. This is to make it a lot harder to lose your LOVE if you reach 100%, as you’re forced to use down b.

Normals:
For normals that involve a knife, frisk will use the same knife as in side b, but this is a cosmetic effect and has no impact on damage/knockback.
For certain moves, your LOVE being high will make you use an entirely different attack.
Jab- A simple 1,2,3 combo with tough gloves. The gentlemen 3rd hit is a jab with the knife, but rapid jab keeps using gloves.
-At 100% LOVE, you cannot use rapid jab.
F-Tilt- Frisk wields the empty gun, which doesn’t fire a bullet but the "BANG" hurts enemies.
D-Tilt- Frisk does a leg sweep with the ballet shoes.
U-Tilt- Frisk does a large sweeping anti-air with the knife.
Dash Attack- Similar to dedede's dash attack, Frisk falls flat on their face.
-When above 50% LOVE, dash attack is instead a very quick sliding stab (think cutter dash in kirby)

N-air- Frisk pulls out the torn notebook and closes it to puff out pages, similar in function to greninja's nair
F-air- Similar to ftilt, but it launches frisk backward with some momentum
-When above 50% LOVE, F-air is instead a horizontal knife slash
Bair- frisk pulls out the heart locket and swings it backward, this move has a shield effect similar to Palutena's B-air
-When above 50% LOVE, Frisk swings the frying pan backwards instead, no shielding effect, slower move
D-air- Ballet shoes tap dancing, similar to Lucas’s D-air.
U-air- Frisk swings knife upward in an arc, decent for juggling.

Smash attacks:
All of frisk's smash attacks have 3 variations. At 0% LOVE, they will not fill up the meter on hit but still deal damage and knockback.
Pacifist smash attacks are only available at 0% LOVE, Neutral smash attacks are at 1-74%, and Genocide smash attacks are at 75-100%.
Pacifist side smash- Frisk blows a kiss projectile.
Pacifist up smash- Frisk sings, music note projectiles float directly above them.
Pacifist down smash- Frisk flexes, hitting on both sides. (and grossing out temmie)
Neutral side smash- Frisk uses the frying pan, similar to Peach’s F-smash.
Neutral up smash- Frisk uses the tough gloves for a strong uppercut. Has a slow startup like Wolf’s F-smash.
Neutral down smash- Frisk crouches down and doesn't move, their soul turns blue, and a light blue knife passes over them to hit both sides.
Genocide smash attacks are generic knife smash attacks, Up and Forward Smash are pretty much the same as Joker’s, Down smash attacks both sides with a stab poke.

Frisk's dodges work like teleport dodges (Mewtwo/Palutena/etc), but Frisk doesn't disappear, instead being replaced by their soul (heart) while invulnerable.

Taunts:
Frisk has 2 taunts for each slot. One for 0-49% LOVE, and one for 50-100% LOVE.
Up taunt 1- Frisk pulls out a cell phone to talk to someone, then puts it away. Sound effects play to denote who they’re talking to, which is randomly chosen like Pacman’s Namco Roulette.
Up taunt 2- The “Spare” button appears in front of Frisk, before being sliced in half.
Side taunt 1- Frisk’s body disappears and is replaced by their soul, which floats around for a second before Frisk comes back.
Side taunt 2- A dummy appears, Frisk punches it, and then it gets angry with that sound effect.
Down taunt 1- An annoying dog appears and runs circles around Frisk while barking at them, making Frisk dizzy.
Down taunt 2- Chara’s demonic laugh, including the terrifying evil face.

Final Smash-
I’m sure after reading the rest of the moveset you never would’ve guessed- Frisk has more than one Final Smash. However, instead of being entirely based on LOVE, you can choose which one to use.
When activated, Frisk will dash forward and time will freeze around them and the person they hit. The screen will transition to look like an Undertale battle menu, with each fighter having white pixel art to match the style. The option to FIGHT or SPARE will show up, which can be selected similar to Shulk’s Monado Arts. (hold left or right to decide, it automatically selects after about a second)
-If you choose FIGHT, then the other character will disappear and be replaced by a white heart (soul) before Frisk attacks and makes the soul split and then shatter, like what happens when you kill a boss in Undertale. This instantly kills above 100%, but will cause your LOVE to instantly reach 100% as well.
-If you choose SPARE, Frisk hugs the enemy, causing them to fade out and puff out smoke as if you had spared an enemy in Undertale. This instantly kills above 100%, but will cause your LOVE to instantly reach 0% as well.
I love this! Thank you for posting this! I was also thinking maybe another way too much LOVE could work is that you could momentarily lose control of your character like how some choices are no longer in your hands on a genocide run. Unfortunately that might be too bad of a thing it's hard to say what would end up being balanced and fair while also entirely unique. This is really great tho.

Evil Trapezium Evil Trapezium I'm sorry I realize I'm not being very specific and that doesn't help my case. I will try to come up with a moveset(s) based around the concepts I had in mind and get back to you guys with it once I come up with it. All your arguments are very valid.
 

GrungeMan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
168
I'm still predicting Capcom and Namco reps for the final two characters and Geno as a bonus individual DLC (which feels like I wrote that hundreds of pages ago with how fast this thread moves now). I haven't really been sold on any arguments for other characters in the last few months.

So... Still preaching Jill for Capcom and I STILL don't know for Namco. Lloyd, Heihachi, and KOS-MOS are respectable choices, but still strike me as underwhelming relative to our first three DLC reveals.

If I'm wrong (which is likely, because I'm simply banking on the Mii Costume theory haha), then Ryu H and Doom Slayer still feel like solid picks imo.

People really are sleeping on Koei Techmo and their relationship with Nintendo. While there may not be any evidence for Ryu, the logic is rather sound in picking him given he's probably Koei's most prominent IP. Kinda sad that his momentum within the speculation scene waned since release.

As for Doom Slayer? No evidence imo beyond Bethesda's comment about discussing smash with Nintendo, but then again that could be enough in the end.

Sorry, I just don't think were getting Crash. I can see Koei and Bethesda getting a character in, but I just don't get any Activision vibes from this fighter pass.
 

SSGuy

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4871-4520-9643
I get an opposite vibe regarding Crash.

I think Activision has been doing a really good job with the Crash/Spyro properties and I think they would be pretty open with working to get Crash into Smash Bros. It would be a good way to advertise CTR a bit more as well. It's just became the best selling Crash Bandicoot title of all time. I think I could buy the Crash in Smash idea but if there were any concerns about this, it would be how Sakurai feels about the character. Japan as a whole has a hard time warming up to Crash and Spyro. They have to redesign the entire character from scratch just to make the character have a chance in the East.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
19,378
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The Western side of Pop Star.
I get an opposite vibe regarding Crash.

I think Activision has been doing a really good job with the Crash/Spyro properties and I think they would be pretty open with working to get Crash into Smash Bros. It would be a good way to advertise CTR a bit more as well. It's just became the best selling Crash Bandicoot title of all time. I think I could buy the Crash in Smash idea but if there were any concerns about this, it would be how Sakurai feels about the character. Japan as a whole has a hard time warming up to Crash and Spyro. They have to redesign the entire character from scratch just to make the character have a chance in the East.
Crash generally fared better. Spyro? The imports for his first two games were bungled up so badly that they rarely even considered trying again. As far as Japan's concerned right now, he's Chibi Ridley.

In any case, do you think they'd pull a K. Rool and combine elements from different versions of their designs?
 
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