Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[RetrogamerMax]

Touhou is niche even in Japan.

Are you sure about that? A bunch of people have told me that Touhou is bigger than Mario in Japan. It's incredibly popular over there from what I've heard.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I feel like with Joker (Popular worldwide), Hero (insanely popular in Japan) and Banjo (insanely popular in the west) they’ve got their big sellers cut out for them. For the last two, they can go nuts. It’s anyone’s chance at this point

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't see an Undertale rep or any other indie character being a fighter. If Shovel Knight was really high on the ballot, only to be made as an assist trophy, that's as far as indie characters can go in my opinion. An Undertale rep in smash really doesn't make any sense since the idea of the game is just to not fight. The game actively makes it a chore to fight enemies so having Frisk in the game doesn't make a lot of sense.

To be fair, though, you can still fight enemies and spare them without having to use the ACT menu. You have to fight Asgore, too. Plus, Smash is more of a sporting event than just brutal fights, considering how most characters clap for the winner at the end of each match.

I think there is a way they could incorporate pacifism and make it work for Frisk, based on a moveset someone made on the last page or so of the Frisk thread. I don’t think Undertale came out in time for the ballot, either; Undertale released in September 2015. Undertale also seems to be treated as more than an indie by Nintendo.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I think the only reason Banjo & Kazooie are even in Smash at all was due to Phil Spencer's blessing for the Banjo & Kazooie fanbase during the Smash Ballot. Otherwise, Microsoft probably wouldn't have corporate with Nintendo like they did to get him in. Phil literally doesn't get enough credit for what he has done for the Banjo-Kazooie fanbase.

Imagine how hard it would be to get the rights to put another western character from a company that would be hard to corporate with.

I don't see why Western companies would be so hard to work with in regards to a character, especially when they're all coming back to Nintendo with the Switch anyway and Smash is one of their biggest games. I'd imagine Activision would absolutely ****ing love to get Crash Bandicoot in Smash to promote N'Sane Trilogy and Nitro Fueled (especially this one since it also has microtransactions now) and they're also on board with the Switch in a lot of meaningful ways. Plus, we have Shovel Knight, Rayman, and Shantae in limited capacities already. Bethesda also seems super on board with the Switch in general, so I don't see how they'd ever turn down an opportunity like Smash as well.

I don't think Western developers are some hill to mount anymore the more I think about it and Sakurai clearly has basically the most impressive resume ever to show to any of them and take control of the character's inclusion while adhering to whatever guidelines the companies give him, so there wouldn't even need to necessarily be that much contact once he commits to a character.

So apparently Hero has been banned from tournament play in southern Australia. Looks like the competitive scene is really not liking the whole RNG insta-kill thing. While I disagree with banning a character with so many flaws, I do have to say that Hero's overall power might need to get scaled back a bit. I'm sorry, killing from center stage at 30-40% off an uncharged forward smash is freaking broken, even for heavies like Ganondorf or Bowser. No other character can do 37% damage off a single charged B move, let alone kill with it around 60-70%. Then you have his side B that does 25% damage HALF-charged and kills at 40% at full charge. It's a good thing he's so painfully slow or else he'd be HANDS DOWN the most deadly character in the game. lol I remember when Incineroar came out, people were laughing about how he "****s out damage", but he's got nothing on Hero.

It's ****ing absurd they banned Hero already. He's literally shown no results to back up such a decision. Mr. Game and Watch, Peach, and Daisy can all kill at absurdly low percentages as well through RNG yet they've never come close to being banned. We couldn't ban wobbling with Ice Climbers or Meta Knight in the Brawl era, so I doubt we'll institute Hero bans anyway. Hero is strong, yes, but he's also slow and pretty easy to read with a random menu that hurts the player and not the opponent with clear telegraphs for all those moves to. They might fine tune him a little, but I really think he needs most of the power to make it for his other shortcomings. The only real issue is his critical hits, and most of those Smash attacks are going to be pretty hard to get off in higher level play.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I don't see why Western companies would be so hard to work with in regards to a character, especially when they're all coming back to Nintendo with the Switch anyway and Smash is one of their biggest games. I'd imagine Activision would absolutely ****ing love to get Crash Bandicoot in Smash to promote N'Sane Trilogy and Nitro Fueled (especially this one since it also has microtransactions now) and they're also on board with the Switch in a lot of meaningful ways. Plus, we have Shovel Knight, Rayman, and Shantae in limited capacities already. Bethesda also seems super on board with the Switch in general, so I don't see how they'd ever turn down an opportunity like Smash as well.

I don't think Western developers are some hill to mount anymore the more I think about it and Sakurai clearly has basically the most impressive resume ever to show to any of them and take control of the character's inclusion while adhering to whatever guidelines the companies give him, so there wouldn't even need to necessarily be that much contact once he commits to a character.

I said in quote "Imagine how hard it would be to get the rights to put another western character from a company that would be hard to corporate with." FROM A COMPANY THAT WOULD BE HARD TO CORPORATE WITH. I wasn't saying it would be impossible for Sakurai to get another western character in Smash, but just slightly more difficult than getting a Japanese character in Smash.

 

[Rikarte]

Touhou is niche even in Japan.

In Japan there are two annual conventions which are entirely dedicated to Touhou and attract thousands of attendees. It's everything but niche but it's popularity has been declining for a few years now since the rise of gacha games.

 

[TheCJBrine]

If Nintendo wanted Banjo-Kazooie, it’s possible they could’ve gotten in even if Phil didn’t strike a deal. I mean, they’ve already worked with Nintendo on other stuff. All the Donkey Kong games that Rare made require some licensing from them because of Rare’s logo, and Donkey Kong 64 also has Rare’s Jetpac game. Viva Piñata also had a DS version. And more-recently, they let Cuphead be on the Switch.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If Nintendo wanted Banjo-Kazooie, it’s possible they could’ve gotten in even if Phil didn’t strike a deal. I mean, they’ve already worked with Nintendo on other stuff. All the Donkey Kong games that Rare made require some licensing from them because of Rare’s logo, and Donkey Kong 64 also has Rare’s Jetpac game. Viva Piñata also had a DS version. And more-recently, they let Cuphead be on the Switch.

Cuphead is owned by Studio MDHR though, not Rare. Just that they had a Microsoft exclusivity contract at the time before deciding to bring it to switch

RIP PS4 owners tho

 

[TheCJBrine]

Cuphead is owned by Studio MDHR though, not Rare. Just that they had a Microsoft exclusivity contract at the time before deciding to bring it to switch

RIP PS4 owners tho

I know it’s not a Rare game, I’m sorry; I meant Microsoft in general. I assumed Microsoft let them drop the contract or something, considering Nintendo said “thanks to our good friends at Microsoft” in that Nindies Direct.

Minecraft is also a good example; Nintendo already embraced it with the Mario mashup pack, a Creeper 3DS, and Steve and Alex are on some quiz for kids in some part of their website asking whom of some some characters you’d like to go on a field trip with.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If Nintendo wanted Banjo-Kazooie, it’s possible they could’ve gotten in even if Phil didn’t strike a deal. I mean, they’ve already worked with Nintendo on other stuff. All the Donkey Kong games that Rare made require some licensing from them because of Rare’s logo, and Donkey Kong 64 also has Rare’s Jetpac game. Viva Piñata also had a DS version. And more-recently, they let Cuphead be on the Switch.

Banjo & Kazooie's popularity didn't skyrocketed in the Smash Ballot until Phil replyed too that one fan on Twitter that asked him if he would be okay with the duo getting in. That one dude could have been responsible for bringing the bear and bird into Smash lol! Imagine if that guy or no one replyed to Phil or if Phil didn't reply back.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Banjo & Kazooie's popularity didn't skyrocketed in the Smash Ballot until Phil replyed too that one fan on Twitter that asked him if he would be okay with the duo getting in. That one dude could have been responsible for bringing the bear and bird into Smash lol! Imagine if that guy or no one replyed to Phil or if Phil didn't reply back.

That’s true.

I guess my point was more that if Nintendo wanted them even without the fan outcry and Phil’s words, Microsoft and Rare likely would’ve still cooperated. Of course Phil certainly helped them, else people probably would’ve given up due to a “why bother?” mindset.

 

[Door Key Pig]

I'd enjoy seeing his support thread having to eat crow for...specific reasons. But I don't really think Crash is going in that soon at this point. I'd rather that he gets accompanied by Spyro anyway, which is much likelier in Smash 6.

Did the support thread run over your dog or something? Also I don't think Japan cares about Spyro soooooooo

I said in quote "Imagine how hard it would be to get the rights to put another western character from a company that would be hard to corporate with." FROM A COMPANY THAT WOULD BE HARD TO CORPORATE WITH. I wasn't saying it would be impossible for Sakurai to get another western character in Smash, but just slightly more difficult than getting a Japanese character in Smash.

If you're talking about Activision, they already worked with Nintendo to put DK and Bowser, pretty big characters, in Skylanders. Not the exact same circumstances as getting a character in Smash but it's happened.

So it really feels like we are totally in the dark here about the last 2 fighters in the fighters pass. Sure we have leaks but obviously we can't necessarily trust said leaks. So at this point, who do you think is most likely (not most wanted) to be the last 2 fighters in this fighters pass? Feel free to argue for who you think is most likely as additional dlc if you really feel that it's likely too because this is entirely an opinion-based question and the inclusion of additional dlc could greatly impact who you would envision as the last 2 fighters pass characters.

I really feel that a Resident Evil rep is very likely but I'm not sure that it'd fit the fighters pass because I'm not really sure how they would set themself apart and be really unique with a new mechanic. I really want Rayman, Crash, and/or Spyro but don't feel that they are all that likely. Doom Guy only seems likely to me because of how ubiquitous the leaks are which really just seem to be feeding off each other and I just don't think they will pan out (not that I'm opposed to Doom Guy or think he wouldn't be unique). Same goes for others like Ryu from Ninja Gaiden. Obviously, Geno is my number one choice and has a lot going for him either way but do I think he's most likely as one of the last 2 fighters in the pass? No, no I do not. I just don't think it's likely we will get more than one rep from the same 3rd party especially Square Enix (my opinion so don't crucify me for it). I do think that additional dlc is likely and where he would fit though.

Because of that, I feel that in my opinion, the 2 most likely candidates are probably the Human from Undertale and I guess a Resident Evil rep despite my above comment. I don't really know who else fits the bill because well...the bill is written in some obscure and non descript Nintendo language making it easy to interpret in many ways.

The Human from Undertale may seem like an odd pick to be most likely but I feel like Undertale is popular enough world-wide, the moveset potential for that character and mechanic potential is just insane how unique it could be, Undertale also fits the niche Indie rep that hasn't been touched yet in the pass, and there have been some leaks purporting it but it doesn't seem to be blowing out of proportion although...dragon quest leaks were all over and did pan out so it's hard to say and there haven't really been any substantial hints to this (or anything else for that matter) so that makes it harder.

Don't get me wrong I still don't really feel like these are definitely the last 2 fighters; they just make the most sense to me with the little information we have to work with right now. I'm definitely ok being proven wrong and likely will be when we get more information (except on the additional dlc part, I hope I'm not wrong about that). But yeah what do you all think? Based on essentially nothing at all other than your opinion and personal logic, who is most likely to fill those last 2 spots?

Why is it that Undertale is likely but Crash is not here? Shovel Knight was a new, kinda-the-one-title, beloved indie game WITH fan ballot support and it still only got an Assist Trophy. How is Undertale more significant than that for it to be fair?

 

[owjies]

I feel the same way for Nightmare if they were to pick a Soul Calibur Rep. ain’t Nightmare the villain? Although technically if I’m not mistaken, he and the hero (Siegfried) like...share a body or something? Nightmare could be an alt but not much else.

Nightmare is Siegfried after he was possessed by the Soul Edge. It would be interesting to see how these characters are implemented. In Soul Calibur 1 they were basically alts of one another. Over time, though, the two characters have become much more distinct in their animations and movesets. I think making Siegfried / Nightmare echo fighters of one another would make the most sense. They would resemble Samus/Dark Samus, allowing Nightmare to have more vicious and aggressive animations. Now that I think about it, this scenario would be really cool because Siegfried and Nightmare would mirror Ryu and Ken.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Why is it that Undertale is likely but Crash is not here? Shovel Knight was a new, kinda-the-one-title, beloved indie game WITH fan ballot support and it still only got an Assist Trophy. How is Undertale more significant than that for it to be fair?

Undertale released on September 15th, 2015 while the ballot ended on October 3rd of that year. It didn’t have any time to reach the popularity it now has and be in the ballot. Nintendo already treats it like it’s not just an indie, anyway, assuming the game being an indie even matters when it comes to Smash.

Although Crash is certainly bigger.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Nightmare is Siegfried after he was possessed by the Soul Edge. It would be interesting to see how these characters are implemented. In Soul Calibur 1 they were basically alts of one another. Over time, though, the two characters have become much more distinct in their animations and movesets. I think making Siegfried / Nightmare echo fighters of one another would make the most sense. They would resemble Samus/Dark Samus, allowing Nightmare to have more vicious and aggressive animations. Now that I think about it, this scenario would be really cool because Siegfried and Nightmare would mirror Ryu and Ken.

Yoshimitsu is my too go Soul Calibur rep for Smash, but Nightmare and Siegfried coming to Smash together as a unique fighter and a Echo Fighter would be pretty damn sweet. I would take it.

 

[owjies]

Yoshimitsu is my too go Soul Calibur rep for Smash, but Nightmare and Siegfried coming to Smash together as a unique fighter and a Echo Fighter would be pretty damn sweet. I would take it.

*High Five* Yoshimitsu's my SC main and has been my second most wanted character after Geno for a long time.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Funny you mention Siegfried w/Nightmare echo, as if KOS-MOS, my own dream Namco pick, were to get in, I’d love it if T-elos were her echo.

Which makes me wonder. They did say Echoes wouldn’t be in the pass. What about if they were individual DLC, or even free for their base fighter’s owner with a patch? I feel like Kasumi Yoshizawa might be Joker’s Echo if the “Jane” being his scrapped alt is any indication, nothing’s stopping them from repurposing her into an Echo

 

[xpnc]

Are you sure about that? A bunch of people have told me that Touhou is bigger than Mario in Japan. It's incredibly popular over there from what I've heard.

Yes I'm sure about that. Mario is one of the "ambassadors" of the 2020 Olympics.

https://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/2n44y2/how_popular_is_touhou_in_japan

Whoever told you that was delusional

 

[RetrogamerMax]

*High Five* Yoshimitsu's my SC main and has been my second most wanted character after Geno for a long time.

And when you think about it, Yoshimitsu could be repping both Soul Calibur and Tekken so he is pretty much the perfect Namco fighting rep.

 

[TheHeartbreakKid]

And when you think about it, Yoshimitsu could be repping both Soul Calibur and Tekken so he is pretty much the perfect Namco fighting rep.

I've seen this mentioned before. How does that work?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I've seen this mentioned before. How does that work?

As I said, he is in both Soul Calibur and Tekken so he could be both the Soul Calibur rep and the Tekken rep instead of Nightmare or Heihachi.

Yes I'm sure about that. Mario is one of the "ambassadors" of the 2020 Olympics.

https://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/2n44y2/how_popular_is_touhou_in_japan

Whoever told you that was delusional

You are using the Touhou Sub-Reddit as a base for your argument? That's weak man. I'm not a fan of the series and I really don't know anything about it, but that right there is a weak case.

 

[xpnc]

In Japan there are two annual conventions which are entirely dedicated to Touhou and attract thousands of attendees. It's everything but niche but it's popularity has been declining for a few years now since the rise of gacha games.

Wow, two whole conventions? Bronycon gets thousands of attendees every year too, does that mean bronies aren't niche anymore?

 

[Paperchampion23]

A few weeks ago.
https://twitter.com/TheRamenDon/status/1154949194039406592?s=20


Fair enough


I would love Monster Hunter but it's already represented via Rathalos so making him/her a DLC would be kinda weird.

I'm not sure why thats a problem, considering Rathalos is the only boss without a representative fighter (that is not a smash original boss). Our whole argument here is that Geno could still be coming even though he has a represented spirit, so I can see the Hunter getting in with the represented boss
fight.

 

[wynn728]

I think Crash doesn't need fan support to get into Smash as he has been relevant though the Insane-Trilogy remakes where's Banjo & Kazooie haven't had a game since Nuts & Bolts back in 2008. The only thing that stands in Crash's way is the western barrier which, I'm pretty sure Banjo & Kazooie broke. We might not see anymore western characters in Ultimate, but I guarantee you we will see plenty more of them in future installments.

Even despite Banjo not having a game since 2008 there has been many request for that character to show up. Crash on the other hand has been very silent when it comes to support and most of the time he just gets dismissed. His support only really ranked up after the N. Sane Trilogy got ported to Switch, but the support feels like it came far to late for it to register on Nintendo & Sakurai's radar. Plus Activision might hold Crash back from appearing in Smash Bros. They wouldn't let him in Playstation All-Star Battle Royale since they (probably) ask for too much money, and the same thing might happen again if Sakurai starts negotiation for Crash. Activision is a very greedy company that has a history of holding back developers, such as how Destiny was a mess because of them, the microtransaction in CTR, this is a company that loves to nickle and dime people. If anything I can see them agree to Crash if his moveset requires microtransactions in order to perform them.

 

[xpnc]

You using the Touhou Sub-Reddit as a base for your argument? That's weak man. I'm not a fan of the series and I really don't know anything about it, but that right there is a weak case.

Believe it or not but there aren't any peer reviewed studies on the popularity of touhou in Japan

 

[Vector Victor]

I feel like with Joker (Popular worldwide), Hero (insanely popular in Japan) and Banjo (insanely popular in the west) they’ve got their big sellers cut out for them. For the last two, they can go nuts. It’s anyone’s chance at this point

Geno and Pink Gold Geno it is!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

In different news, the Nindies are arriving much sooner than usual this time, and are now known as Indie...World?

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...rld_showcase_announced_for_monday_19th_august

First the Hero feature announcement on a weekend, now this. How many more pre-conceived habits can Nintendo break?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Believe it or not but there aren't any peer reviewed studies on the popularity of touhou in Japan

Source or should I say sources?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

The way I see it, characters get chosen from either Fan requests or corporate picks.

Corporate picks may not be very requested (or as requested as certain characters) but are likely chosen for Super Smash Bros because the people involved in Smash (Including Sakurai) or third party companies approaching Nintendo want them in for personal reasons or to promote their franchise.

Recent examples: Ryu, Corrin, ... Isabelle Incineroar, Piranha Plant, Joker, Hero.

Then you have fan requests who are solely chosen to please the fans, hence the name.

Recent examples: Cloud, Ridley, King K Rool, Simon, Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The way I see it, characters get chosen from either Fan requests or corporate picks.

Corporate picks may not be very requested (or as requested as certain characters) but are likely chosen for Super Smash Bros because the people involved in Smash (Including Sakurai) or third party companies approaching Nintendo want them in for personal reasons or to promote their franchise.

Recent examples: Ryu, Corrin, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, Joker, Hero.

Then you have fan requests who are solely chosen to please the fans, hence the name.

Recent examples: Cloud, Ridley, King K Rool, Simon, ... Isabelle, Banjo & Kazooie.

I see Isabelle as more of a corporate pick than a fan one honestly. People were not screaming off the top of the hills for her inclusion like they were for Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I said in quote "Imagine how hard it would be to get the rights to put another western character from a company that would be hard to corporate with." FROM A COMPANY THAT WOULD BE HARD TO CORPORATE WITH. I wasn't saying it would be impossible for Sakurai to get another western character in Smash, but just slightly more difficult than getting a Japanese character in Smash.

Sorry, the way you worded it just came off as kind of awkward and I didn't really get what you were going for because of that. And to the clarified point you bring up, I doubt it's actually a noticeable difference in the difficulty of working with Western developers versus Eastern ones, I just think Sakurai has so far been more focused on representing Japanese gaming overall and that's why we don't see other Western characters. Well, that and Western third parties weren't really involved with Nintendo until this generation. Now that those channels are open once again (or at least, more open than they've ever been), I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Western reps in the last couple of fighters. Especially when those companies could arguably use good PR more than ever, and Smash lets them gain great PR for their brands that are now active and relevant again, alongside making money off of said licensing deal.

The only ones who might pose a problem would be 2K and EA since they seem the least on board with Switch... but they basically have no one in the conversation anyway (I mean you could go for Commander Shepard, Big Daddy, Yarney, and others... but they're not exactly the same icons they once were and don't really seem to fit with the way Sakurai has been going so far). Generally, I'd expect the developer's current support for the Switch to be directly proportional to their "ease of working with for Smash."

I'm not sure why thats a problem, considering Rathalos is the only boss without a representative fighter (that is not a smash original boss). Our whole argument here is that Geno could still be coming even though he has a represented spirit, so I can see the Hunter getting in with the represented boss
fight.

Yeah, I'm also of the mind Monster Hunter is out alongside Spirits for this Fighter's Pass, but it seems really foolish to count Monster Hunter out, but then say Geno has a chance. It would have been much easier to throw out the Geno and Mallow Spirit Battles than the Rathalos boss battle which had much more extensive and vital work done on it for World of Light and Classic Mode.

The way I see it, characters get chosen from either Fan requests or corporate picks.

Corporate picks may not be very requested (or as requested as certain characters) but are likely chosen for Super Smash Bros because the people involved in Smash (Including Sakurai) or third party companies approaching Nintendo want them in for personal reasons or to promote their franchise.

Recent examples: Ryu, Corrin, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, Joker, Hero.

Then you have fan requests who are solely chosen to please the fans, hence the name.

Recent examples: Cloud, Ridley, King K Rool, Simon, ... Isabelle, Banjo & Kazooie.

This feels overly reductionist since many of these characters got in from multiple sources as opposed to the more rigid lines. Hero in particular doesn't just fit corporate pick given what he is. Cloud almost certainly doesn't just fit fan pick (he was arguably more in the game because of the Final Fantasy desire Sakurai had). Castlevania is all over the place too since Sakurai and the development team had a clear interest in the series. Isabelle comes from pushing the AC brand and popularity outside of Smash. Hell, even Ridley and King K. Rool can be argued as just promoting Metroid and Donkey Kong since those games have had recent releases and will continue to have more.

 

[owjies]

The way I see it, characters get chosen from either Fan requests or corporate picks.

Corporate picks may not be very requested (or as requested as certain characters) but are likely chosen for Super Smash Bros because the people involved in Smash (Including Sakurai) or third party companies approaching Nintendo want them in for personal reasons or to promote their franchise.

Recent examples: Ryu, Corrin, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, Joker, Hero.

Then you have fan requests who are solely chosen to please the fans, hence the name.

Recent examples: Cloud, Ridley, King K Rool, Simon, ... Isabelle, Banjo & Kazooie.

I think there's a third category, "Gaming History," especially when it comes to guest characters. Even though Ryu and Hero haven't had the demand that Ridley and K. Rool have, they both are the faces of their respective genres. Yes, Nintendo is going out of their way to remind us about DQ 11S, but I think including Erdrick was also important for Sakurai as well. Sakurai talks about having a personal collection of thousands of games, so he's become somewhat of a gaming historian at this point.

 

[P47]

The way I see it, characters get chosen from either Fan requests or corporate picks.

Corporate picks may not be very requested (or as requested as certain characters) but are likely chosen for Super Smash Bros because the people involved in Smash (Including Sakurai) or third party companies approaching Nintendo want them in for personal reasons or to promote their franchise.

Recent examples: Ryu, Corrin, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, Joker, Hero.

Then you have fan requests who are solely chosen to please the fans, hence the name.

Recent examples: Cloud, Ridley, King K Rool, Simon, ... Isabelle, Banjo & Kazooie.

I do not feel comfortable calling a character like Ice Climbers a corporate pick even though it fits your definition

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Well guys, I'm hitting the hay before I go to work so I'll see you guys tomorrow.

I do not feel comfortable calling a character like Ice Climbers a corporate pick even though it fits your definition

The Ice Climbers... I would say are a Sakurai pick instead of a corporate or fan pick if that makes any sense.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The way I see it, characters get chosen from either Fan requests or corporate picks.

Corporate picks may not be very requested (or as requested as certain characters) but are likely chosen for Super Smash Bros because the people involved in Smash (Including Sakurai) or third party companies approaching Nintendo want them in for personal reasons or to promote their franchise.

Recent examples: Ryu, Corrin, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, Joker, Hero.

Then you have fan requests who are solely chosen to please the fans, hence the name.

Recent examples: Cloud, Ridley, King K Rool, Simon, ... Isabelle, Banjo & Kazooie.

PP is a weird case, seeing as it was Nintendo's year of promoting Mario enemies into playable characters. Not really sure what corporate reason there is for that one beyond "Smash Bros. is a Mario spin-off". I mean, even they didn't consider the idea of having a playable garden-variety plant by themselves at all (i.e. any plant that's not Petey) until after Sakurai did it.

Seems more like Sakurai pick for that one.

 

[KCCHIEFS27]

Shady dude down the street told me Zatch Bell is bigger than Pokemon in my neighborhood

He’s in lads

 

[Firox]

It's ****ing absurd they banned Hero already. He's literally shown no results to back up such a decision. Mr. Game and Watch, Peach, and Daisy can all kill at absurdly low percentages as well through RNG yet they've never come close to being banned. We couldn't ban wobbling with Ice Climbers or Meta Knight in the Brawl era, so I doubt we'll institute Hero bans anyway. Hero is strong, yes, but he's also slow and pretty easy to read with a random menu that hurts the player and not the opponent with clear telegraphs for all those moves to. They might fine tune him a little, but I really think he needs most of the power to make it for his other shortcomings. The only real issue is his critical hits, and most of those Smash attacks are going to be pretty hard to get off in higher level play.

I think it's kind of absurd too. Honestly, as long as a player can move before being 0-deathed, I don't think a character should be banned. I mean, if ANY character should have been banned, it should have been smash 4 Bayo. When you have tournaments where the top 8 are all one character, you know you've got a problem. Not to mention how ludicrously unfun it was watch yourself get pummeled into oblivion without any hope of recourse. Hero, on the other hand, is very slow and telegraphed so if you walk into a thwack, that's kind of on you. Still, I can see where RNG could get pretty annoying in a competitive setting. Could you imagine the anarchy that would break out if some no-name player were to knock MKLeo out of a tournament with a couple of well-placed thwacks or Magical Bursts? We'd be talking about Dead Sea levels of salt.

 

[Loog]

You think there will be another cadence of hyrule type of collaberation anounced at the indie direct?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

This feels overly reductionist since many of these characters got in from multiple sources as opposed to the more rigid lines. Hero in particular doesn't just fit corporate pick given what he is. Cloud almost certainly doesn't just fit fan pick (he was arguably more in the game because of the Final Fantasy desire Sakurai had). Castlevania is all over the place too since Sakurai and the development team had a clear interest in the series. Isabelle comes from pushing the AC brand and popularity outside of Smash. Hell, even Ridley and King K. Rool can be argued as just promoting Metroid and Donkey Kong since those games have had recent releases and will continue to have more.

I have to disagree. Hero is definitely a corporate pick because Dragon Quest is Square Enix's biggest selling franchise in Japan and Dragon Quest 11 S was promoted alongside the character to advertise and try to gather a western audience. Although I did make a mistake of adding Isabelle to fan requests. She is a corporate pick for Animal Crossing new horizon, fixed that.

There have been lots of requests for Simon Belmont and Cloud even back in the Brawl days and have been popular picks during the Smash ballot. Sakurai even states that Simon was added due to the Smash Ballot.

Spoiler: Long tweet for some reason

Belmont boys, Ridley and King K Rool were added due to the Smash Ballot. pic.twitter.com/YARrmX8rSa

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) January 20, 2019

King K Rool is a long unused Donkey Kong character and while Ridley comes from a re-surging franchise, he would most likely never be playable without fan demand and Sakurai would still be convinced to keep him as a boss. If there wasn't anyone requesting King K Rool or Ridley then there we would probably never see them appear as playable fighters in smash.

 

[YsDisciple]

A bit off the Geno speculation discussion, yet still related to Geno's roots. I believe that till this day, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars is perhaps the most unique (if not one of the most unique) crossover the Mario franchise has had throughout its history. Sure, starting in the N64 we continued Mario's venture into RPG with Paper Mario, and later Mario & Luigi came along, but SMRPG just has this unique essence to it (thanks to Squaresoft back then). The visual aesthetic, the battle mechanics, the enemies, the plot, characters (GENOOOOOOO); the game was certainly ahead of its time, and boy was that good. It's aged like the finest wine in the world, yet it's still seen as a niche/obscure game of the SNES era. It's like a diamond in the rough that hasn't been polished; not because it hasn't been found, but nobody has dared to polish it yet. The desire for having Geno in Smash aside, a revival of this game would really be something.