Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I might have been unclear. I don't think there would be any confusion on whether the Pass has or hasn't the extra characters.

I do think that if extra characters started being announced, people would question whether it was always part of the plan to have them separate from the Fighter Pass. Because that would be a questionable practice. Why make six characters but only sell five as part of a bundle?

I guess it depends what the characters are like. If they're Echoes, or made clear to not have Stages, etc., it'll be a lot easier to understand.

I think we'd have the least confusion of we had a unique Echo pack. I am aware of the wording sounding oxymoronic.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I guess it depends what the characters are like. If they're Echoes, or made clear to not have Stages, etc., it'll be a lot easier to understand.

I think we'd have the least confusion of we had a unique Echo pack. I am aware of the wording sounding oxymoronic.

I agree that it depends on marketing. But the safest way to market it is, imo, just telling people how many characters there'll be upfront. And at that point, you might as well sell them a Pass.

 

[xpnc]

People would question whether it was always part of the plan to have them separate from the Fighter Pass.

Yes I'm sure that ending E3 2020 with "and one more thing" would fill the consumers with rage with the prospect that they may be required to pay another 4.99 (assuming there's no stage included like with Piranha Plant) to get a new character in their favourite game. The same game that breaks the internet every time a new character is revealed, automatically tops twitter's trending, and whose reaction videos dominate every single person's youtube recommendations for weeks.

No one but the most contrarian Smash bros players would complain at the prospect of new characters being added. I honestly cannot image there being a widespread sentiment that people were ripped off because Smash has more DLC. That doesn't even make sense.

I agree that it depends on marketing. But the safest way to market it is, imo, just telling people how many characters there'll be upfront. And at that point, you might as well sell them a Pass.

Suppose they didn't plan for new characters until Nintendo saw how well the pass sold after Joker was revealed. Then what?

Oh by the way, we're adding 2 more characters to the fighter pass, which originally saved ~$4 but will now save ~$16 because we can't make you pay more for something you already have. This is a smart economic decision

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I agree that it depends on marketing. But the safest way to market it is, imo, just telling people how many characters there'll be upfront. And at that point, you might as well sell them a Pass.

I get ya, but it's clear they never intended to do that, so not much you can do but wait or just go for it.

Regardless, I don't think this affects alternate DLC either way. Costumes already didn't show up till last second with Joker's proper trailer, so I'd imagine anything could happen separately noted(like Echoes) or that every pack announces new costumes.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yes I'm sure that ending E3 2020 with "and one more thing" would fill the consumers with rage with the prospect that they may be required to pay another 4.99 (assuming there's no stage included like with Piranha Plant) to get a new character in their favourite game. The same game that breaks the internet every time a new character is revealed, automatically tops twitter's trending, and whose reaction videos dominate every single person's youtube recommendations for weeks.

No one but the most contrarian Smash bros players would complain at the prospect of new characters being added. I honestly cannot image there being a widespread sentiment that people were ripped off because Smash has more DLC. That doesn't even make sense.

I think you lack imagination.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Old topic but it's kind of weird that they chose Sheik to represent Geno in World of Light. At least the abilities kind of line up with Mallow to Robin. Mii Gunner or even MegaMan would have made more sense. I guess they did it because of Sheik's needles and they have the same eye color but even then that's a huge stretch.

 

[Ovaltine]

Old topic but it's kind of weird that they chose Sheik to represent Geno in World of Light. At least the abilities kind of line up with Mallow to Robin. Mii Gunner or even MegaMan would have made more sense. I guess they did it because of Sheik's needles and they have the same eye color but even then that's a huge stretch.

Could also be because Sheik has hair over one eye like Geno's stupid, doofy curls.

...

Yeah, it's still a huge stretch. I would'a gone Mega Man, tbh.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Old topic but it's kind of weird that they chose Sheik to represent Geno in World of Light. At least the abilities kind of line up with Mallow to Robin. Mii Gunner or even MegaMan would have made more sense. I guess they did it because of Sheik's needles and they have the same eye color but even then that's a huge stretch.

Yeah, always thought that was weird. Maybe the Spirit team wasn't that familiar with the character? Then again, they at least had a grasp on his abilities, but the needles can just as easily be Megaman's pellets.

Maybe they just wanted more Sheik Spirit Battles and figured Geno fit.

 

[ZelDan]

Sheik and Geno both are associated with the idea of taking on another form? Zelda using Sheik as a disguise and Geno possessing a doll to assist Mario?

That's all I got.

 

[Ovaltine]

It's kind of baffling. You'd think that, with one of the biggest core Smash fandom bubble fan favorites, they'd be a little more careful with how they represented him. If his spirit is supposed to represent a proper facsimile of him, why does he not feel like it? The rest of the SMRPG crew are represented very well, on the contrary, and Mallow represented via white Kirby is actually something I expected in some form. So then, why was Geno himself handled so poorly?

Maybe because he's coming as a DLC fighter!

(Yeah, don't take that seriously, please do not.)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sheik and Geno both are associated with the idea of taking on another form? Zelda using Sheik as a disguise and Geno possessing a doll to assist Mario?

That's all I got.

That was similar to my thought. They're disguises to hide their true form. They're also projectile users at times. Another thing is they both are associated with mystical abilities to some degree, and are very mysterious characterization-wise. They're also allies that come in quite a bit later into the story, providing support in different ways, yet tied heavily to the story's importance. One is a more active party member. Though Sheik pretty much is your biggest ally besides Navi that is most active otherwise. Epona is like the last main ally otherwise that shows up.

 

[xpnc]

(Yeah, don't take that seriously, please do not.)

Too late

 

[GoodGrief741]

It's kind of baffling. You'd think that, with one of the biggest core Smash fandom bubble fan favorites, they'd be a little more careful with how they represented him. If his spirit is supposed to represent a proper facsimile of him, why does he not feel like it? The rest of the SMRPG crew are represented very well, on the contrary, and Mallow represented via white Kirby is actually something I expected in some form. So then, why was Geno himself handled so poorly?

Maybe because he's coming as a DLC fighter!

(Yeah, don't take that seriously, please do not.)

I mean, I don't think anybody feels that Sheik is bad representation, but it's certainly unorthodox. Like they had an obvious choice and didn't go for it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, I don't think anybody feels that Sheik is bad representation, but it's certainly unorthodox. Like they had an obvious choice and didn't go for it.

But Puppetmon isn't playable...

 

[GoodGrief741]

But Puppetmon isn't playable...

I'm sorry, I didn't get this joke...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm sorry, I didn't get this joke...

...He's a literal Puppet. What's more obvious than using Geno for a spirit battle that is connected to a puppet?

Eh, the name alone was why I felt the joke worked. Anyway, I can only hope for more SMRPG spirits.

For the part that isn't obvious, Puppetmon actually does use bullet-like attacks as well, and has some interesting characterization on his own merits, usually having troubles with friendship.

Here's a picture. He was more based directly on Pinnochio, even having the same Japanese name(Pinochimon).

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yes I'm sure that ending E3 2020 with "and one more thing" would fill the consumers with rage with the prospect that they may be required to pay another 4.99 (assuming there's no stage included like with Piranha Plant) to get a new character in their favourite game. The same game that breaks the internet every time a new character is revealed, automatically tops twitter's trending, and whose reaction videos dominate every single person's youtube recommendations for weeks.

No one but the most contrarian Smash bros players would complain at the prospect of new characters being added. I honestly cannot image there being a widespread sentiment that people were ripped off because Smash has more DLC. That doesn't even make sense.


Suppose they didn't plan for new characters until Nintendo saw how well the pass sold after Joker was revealed. Then what?

Oh by the way, we're adding 2 more characters to the fighter pass, which originally saved ~$4 but will now save ~$16 because we can't make you pay more for something you already have. This is a smart economic decision

I think you’ve kind of missed the point. The season pass covers the season of content, in other words, unique fighters with stages released up until February 2020 are going to be expected to be a part of that. Anything after is completely fair game, but until you’ve delivered the first five as promised, you don’t get a ton of room to deviate from that plan. While you can technically deviate from it while the season of content is going on, it’s a bad look that brings out anger with fans of questioning why this specific character isn’t part of the Pass or why you’re making DLC outside of the content people have already paid for.

It’s not that people are more pissed at more DLC, it’s that they’re pissed that the content wasn’t included in the pass as they thought it would be. Once all five have been released though, that concludes the season and everything is more than fair game. So E3 2020 wouldn’t be an issue to reveal a new character at.

It’s not the more DLC that’s an issue, it’s the timing and how it’s presented to the consumer. If they released Geno with a Forest Maze Stage and music tomorrow that wasn’t a part of the Fighter’s Pass and had to be purchased separately, you can bet there’d be a lot of confused and pissed off people. They can shift things around to where such content would be part of the Fighter’s Pass and then Fighter #5 becomes the extra DLC, but that seems excessively complicated when you could just wait til all 5 are done and then release more content if you choose to.

 

[GoodGrief741]

...He's a literal Puppet. What's more obvious than using Geno for a spirit battle that is connected to a puppet?

Eh, the name alone was why I felt the joke worked. Anyway, I can only hope for more SMRPG spirits.

For the part that isn't obvious, Puppetmon actually does use bullet-like attacks as well, and has some interesting characterization on his own merits, usually having troubles with friendship.

View attachment 229709 Here's a picture. He was more based directly on Pinnochio, even having the same Japanese name(Pinochimon).

Oh wow, that looks really similar to Geno? Where's it from, Digimon or something?

I think you’ve kind of missed the point. The season pass covers the season of content, in other words, unique fighters with stages released up until February 2020 are going to be expected to be a part of that. Anything after is completely fair game, but until you’ve delivered the first five as promised, you don’t get a ton of room to deviate from that plan. While you can technically deviate from it while the season of content is going on, it’s a bad look that brings out anger with fans of questioning why this specific character isn’t part of the Pass or why you’re making DLC outside of the content people have already paid for.

It’s not that people are more pissed at more DLC, it’s that they’re pissed that the content wasn’t included in the pass as they thought it would be. Once all five have been released though, that concludes the season and everything is more than fair game. So E3 2020 wouldn’t be an issue to reveal a new character at.

It’s not the more DLC that’s an issue, it’s the timing and how it’s presented to the consumer. If they released Geno with a Forest Maze Stage and music tomorrow that wasn’t a part of the Fighter’s Pass and had to be purchased separately, you can bet there’d be a lot of confused and pissed off people. They can shift things around to where such content would be part of the Fighter’s Pass and then Fighter #5 becomes the extra DLC, but that seems excessively complicated when you could just wait til all 5 are done and then release more content if you choose to.

Yeah, this is what I meant to say. Probably didn't communicate it very well though.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I think you’ve kind of missed the point. The season pass covers the season of content, in other words, unique fighters with stages released up until February 2020 are going to be expected to be a part of that. Anything after is completely fair game, but until you’ve delivered the first five as promised, you don’t get a ton of room to deviate from that plan. While you can technically deviate from it while the season of content is going on, it’s a bad look that brings out anger with fans of questioning why this specific character isn’t part of the Pass or why you’re making DLC outside of the content people have already paid for.

It’s not that people are more pissed at more DLC, it’s that they’re pissed that the content wasn’t included in the pass as they thought it would be. Once all five have been released though, that concludes the season and everything is more than fair game. So E3 2020 wouldn’t be an issue to reveal a new character at.

It’s not the more DLC that’s an issue, it’s the timing and how it’s presented to the consumer. If they released Geno with a Forest Maze Stage and music tomorrow that wasn’t a part of the Fighter’s Pass and had to be purchased separately, you can bet there’d be a lot of confused and pissed off people. They can shift things around to where such content would be part of the Fighter’s Pass and then Fighter #5 becomes the extra DLC, but that seems excessively complicated when you could just wait til all 5 are done and then release more content if you choose to.

All I could think of while reading this post was Dead or Alive 6.

The DLC practices for that game give it a real bad look. Stopped me from buying it entirely. "Oh look, mid-season DLC that has nothing to do with the DLC season pass people purchased and must be purchased separately because the devs (or whoever's in charge of the DLC) are greedy scumbags!"

Of course, it also doesn't help that all of DOA6's DLC combined adds up to over $1,000 of COSMETIC ITEMS.

 

[Rikarte]

Old topic but it's kind of weird that they chose Sheik to represent Geno in World of Light. At least the abilities kind of line up with Mallow to Robin. Mii Gunner or even MegaMan would have made more sense. I guess they did it because of Sheik's needles and they have the same eye color but even then that's a huge stretch.

Shiek and Geno are both pretty fast while Mega Man and especially Mii Gunner are rather slow. Don't forget that Shiek was wielding a Super Scope in that fight too. Now the Geno Mii costume would have obviously been the best choice but since that's not in the game (yet?) I think she was the most fitting alternative.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh wow, that looks really similar to Geno? Where's it from, Digimon or something?

Well, just the fact they are puppets as what made the joke work as an idea. >.< Some similarities otherwise.

And yeah, it's a Digimon.

 

[SSGuy]

Old topic but it's kind of weird that they chose Sheik to represent Geno in World of Light. At least the abilities kind of line up with Mallow to Robin. Mii Gunner or even MegaMan would have made more sense. I guess they did it because of Sheik's needles and they have the same eye color but even then that's a huge stretch.

I always imagined that Geno in Smash Bros would be best as a Sheik/Robin hybrid. He needs to really fill in his role as a strike mage.

 

[Deleted member]

For the Geno Spirit I would have gone with Megaman for sure.

 

[Vector Victor]

Geno as Sheik makes perfect sense:


Its because at the last minute Square wanted Cloud as DLC. Since that would ruin 'Everyone is here,' they decided to swap, making base Geno DLC so Cloud could be base instead (having a new character as DLC makes sense than a repaying for a veteran). So they just took Geno's fighter spirit, remove the Ultimate design for the time being and bumped his original design alt to a spirit battle. However, they had to scramble programming the battle on such short notice, so they went with Sheik due to her needles being like his shot attacks. Of course, they couldn't use Gunner as the Geno costume was moved to DLC like the other 3rd party costumes.

 

[Nicnac]

Geno as Sheik makes perfect sense:


Its because at the last minute Square wanted Cloud as DLC. Since that would ruin 'Everyone is here,' they decided to swap, making base Geno DLC so Cloud could be base instead (having a new character as DLC makes sense than a repaying for a veteran). So they just took Geno's fighter spirit, remove the Ultimate design for the time being and bumped his original design alt to a spirit battle. However, they had to scramble programming the battle on such short notice, so they went with Sheik due to her needles being like his shot attacks. Of course, they couldn't use Gunner as the Geno costume was moved to DLC like the other 3rd party costumes.

I'm a little confused here. So not only do Geno and Cloud swap places mid-development, but instead of releasing Geno as a PP-like DLC character they instead hold him back for a season pass, change up his spirit for his incoming reveal, and then change his design alt? I don't even know what a design alt is, could you please explain? I'm a little thick haha. Also, Geno's spirit is Sheik because the battle got rushed? If it got rushed, why not just have a Mega Man on 'roids? Surely that's faster than assembling the SMRPG crew and giving Sheik a super scope?

 

[Vector Victor]

I'm a little confused here. So not only do Geno and Cloud swap places mid-development, but instead of releasing Geno as a PP-like DLC character they instead hold him back for a season pass, change up his spirit for his incoming reveal, and then change his design alt? I don't even know what a design alt is, could you please explain? I'm a little thick haha. Also, Geno's spirit is Sheik because the battle got rushed? If it got rushed, why not just have a Mega Man on 'roids? Surely that's faster than assembling the SMRPG crew and giving Sheik a super scope?

There is a perfectly explained explanation for all this:





Elves.



Actually, I can't back up anything I said as I made it up, but said in such a matter of factly way that hopefully the universe warps itself and it will make my untrue statements true. Basically, I'm invoking a reality rewrite for a video game.







I'm not crazy.

 

[link2702]

On the topic of sheik for the geno spirit...all I could think of, is maybe it’s due to geno being a fast glass canon in smrpg, able to do extremely high damage, as well as being the fastest character, while having very low defense. Shiek is kinda the same, having tons of fast moves that rack up damage quickly, but being a lightweight who can get ko’d quick.

Of course it could be a blend of multiple reasons, such as ones already mentioned like sheik being a disguise and geno just being a spirit that possesses a doll.

 

[Firox]

So Mario Maker 2 came out and I've been experimenting with all the cool new stage building tools. I want to try and recreate the forest maze from SMRPG with the whole "warp tree" thing. Maybe I'll insert some not-so-subtle references to Geno in there. That'll show Nintendo....Geno is inevitable!...

 

[domriver]

So this just came to mind. You think they will hold a mini-direct for Hero ? and IF so you think Sakurai will be the host of that ? or just another general speaker? My guess if Sakurai will be talking about it - he may have something up his sleeve square related... since this is all about Square....... lol

 

[Ovaltine]

So this just came to mind. You think they will hold a mini-direct for Hero ? and IF so you think Sakurai will be the host of that ? or just another general speaker? My guess if Sakurai will be talking about it - he may have something up his sleeve square related... since this is all about Square....... lol

It'll more than likely just be a shadow drop like Joker, meaning no involvement from Sakurai or anyone else.

Also, wow, I had a dream last night that Hero dropped with a lot of Mii costumes, but Geno was notably not among them. The amount of hope-building in the thread was real... and then I woke up.

 

[Firox]

It'll more than likely just be a shadow drop like Joker, meaning no involvement from Sakurai or anyone else.

Also, wow, I had a dream last night that Hero dropped with a lot of Mii costumes, but Geno was notably not among them. The amount of hope-building in the thread was real... and then I woke up.

I'm telling you RIGHT NOW. If Hero gets dropped without a Geno costume I'm going to lose my ****. Pretty much as good as a confirmation to me.

 

[Ovaltine]

I'm telling you RIGHT NOW. If Hero gets dropped without a Geno costume I'm going to lose my ****. Pretty much as good as a confirmation to me.

I hope that's the case, but I sincerely doubt it at this point. That dream was so nice and I wish I could go back to it. I genuinely felt like Geno was going to make it this time, and then I woke up to reality.

Ugh. So frustrating, especially with all the SMRPG references and acknowledgement Nintendo's been throwing out lately, the most damning being via PP. Do they, like... not realize how much hope that gives the community, only for him to have the same thing as the last game + a glorified sticker? If they can't add him in, fine, but why put all these little hints and nods if it isn't happening? "Hey, look, we remember you guys and we hear you, but also, screw you."

Meh. Sorry. Mostly just venting from frustration. Been unwell and moody.

 

[Firox]

I hope that's the case, but I sincerely doubt it at this point. That dream was so nice and I wish I could go back to it. I genuinely felt like Geno was going to make it this time, and then I woke up to reality.

Ugh. So frustrating, especially with all the SMRPG references and acknowledgement Nintendo's been throwing out lately, the most damning being via PP. Do they, like... not realize how much hope that gives the community, only for him to have the same thing as the last game + a glorified sticker? If they can't add him in, fine, but why put all these little hints and nods if it isn't happening? "Hey, look, we remember you guys and we hear you, but also, screw you."

Meh. Sorry. Mostly just venting from frustration. Been unwell and moody.

That's why I'm saying that if the costume DOESN'T get dropped, then Geno's pretty much confirmed. There's no other logical reason I can think of that they WOULDN'T drop it unless that was the case. Even then, they could drop it and release him anyway if they were really evil and wanted to make an easy few bucks. I'm just saying that if we don't see the costume, it could either be an amazingly good sign or a horrifyingly terrible one in the event that Geno just gets left out completely, though I sincerely doubt that would be the case.

 

[Ovaltine]

That's why I'm saying that if the costume DOESN'T get dropped, then Geno's pretty much confirmed. There's no other logical reason I can think of that they WOULDN'T drop it unless that was the case. Even then, they could drop it and release him anyway if they were really evil and wanted to make an easy few bucks. I'm just saying that if we don't see the costume, it could either be an amazingly good sign or a horrifyingly terrible one in the event that Geno just gets left out completely, though I sincerely doubt that would be the case.

Yeah, exactly... yet if the costume comes back, I'd take that as a, "No, he's not happening unless we add him to future plans," the stark opposite of things.

It's really sad and torturous that the status of a ported Mii costume could mean two wildly different outcomes. There's very little grey area left. It's just where the pendulum swings from here.

 

[Firox]

Yeah, exactly... yet if the costume comes back, I'd take that as a, "No, he's not happening unless we add him to future plans," the stark opposite of things.

It's really sad and torturous that the status of a ported Mii costume could mean two wildly different outcomes. There's very little grey area left. It's just where the pendulum swings from here.

Yeah, I have to admit it really is pathetic that the most we have to run with on theorizing Geno's inclusion is a freaking Mii costume. And as you say, its appearance or lack thereof could mean a world of difference, or at the same time, none at all. Such is the beauty of being starved for information.

 

[GoodGrief741]

It'll more than likely just be a shadow drop like Joker, meaning no involvement from Sakurai or anyone else.

Also, wow, I had a dream last night that Hero dropped with a lot of Mii costumes, but Geno was notably not among them. The amount of hope-building in the thread was real... and then I woke up.

Well, Joker did get a mini Direct explaining his content.

 

[Ovaltine]

Well, Joker did get a mini Direct explaining his content.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry, I worded that super poorly rofl.

 

[kiteinthesky]

Uh... I don't think that was hostile at all, but sorry if that offended you somehow. (If you could point out what was hostile that would help.)

I'm afraid I must apologize -- I was in a really bad mood when I read the post, and the way it was written came off as hostile. I have not been feeling well at all as of late -- I am sorry.

 

[UberMadman]

On the topic of sheik for the geno spirit...all I could think of, is maybe it’s due to geno being a fast glass canon in smrpg, able to do extremely high damage, as well as being the fastest character, while having very low defense. Shiek is kinda the same, having tons of fast moves that rack up damage quickly, but being a lightweight who can get ko’d quick.

Of course it could be a blend of multiple reasons, such as ones already mentioned like sheik being a disguise and geno just being a spirit that possesses a doll.

Yeah, I think it’s more of a playstyle thing. Mega Man may on the surface level resemble Geno more, but in playstyle, Mega Man is much slower and “tankier”. I think that’s why they used White Kirby for the Geno fight, but for his own Spirit, they used Robin: White Kirby looks like Mallow on a surface level, but he actually plays more like Robin. If Geno cameo’d in another Spirit with an emphasis on looks over playstyle like Mallow does, then Geno probably would have been Mega Man.

EDIT: As for the Mii Costume thing? I’m in the “it doesn’t matter one way or another because Geno is definitely not planned for pack 1 and the costume wouldn’t prevent him from being in a pack 2” camp.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm afraid I must apologize -- I was in a really bad mood when I read the post, and the way it was written came off as hostile. I have not been feeling well at all as of late -- I am sorry.

No hard feelings whatsoever.