Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Datboigeno]

Does anyone else get a surreal feeling looking at the smash roster when you realize a lot of the roster is from basically dead franchises.

It might be why it infuriates me when people use the relevancy argument. Especially with Geno.

That's what I've always liked about the series tbh. It's a mix of newer franchises and characters and ones that haven't been active in decades. My feeling is that for as many NES era exclusive nostalgia characters that we have Geno and BK would work as tributes to the SNES and N64 eras.

 

[Dorayaki]

Sorry to bother in the first place for being a newcomer, I see there's a main topic about Geno's chance and analysis, but I'm not sure if this post can fit in as long as it was an independent thread from other forum. If someone think this should be a reply comment to any existed thread, please inform me to contact theadmins



Here is a reminder: the following oberservation is neither in the viewpoint of positive support or negative hostility against Geno. It ony tries to make an objective theory, so please do not make biased assumptions about the post about liking or hating Geno the character.

And to be honest I haven't been keeping the Smash bros community for quite a time. If there is any missed vital information that is not mentioned in the post, please inform me below.


Personally, I'm a fan of Geno and have played Super Mario RPG. But when it comes to Smash bros, I think this is a different story.
.
Smash bros may include "any" character as long as they have origin from Nintendo history (if not third party characters). But it would be weird to say all Nintendo characters can definitely makes it in Smash bros. If we're here to claim that a certain character has 100% chance, that is impossible. Geno is potential but others are also as well.
It is more difficult when the franchise Geno comes from, Mario series, already got a big bunch of recurring characters to represent and many have made it into Smash bros.

When it comes to Geno's case, unfortunately he never makes a second formal appearance in the Mario games after his debut it Super Mario RPG. Most of the main characters from Mario universe, such as Diddy Kong, Wario, Daisy and KingKRool actually have been introduced before SMRPG came out. They kept receiving more chances after their debut game. But then, why Geno is still frequently requested despite this? The arguements usually are like these:

*Argument: Smash bros director Sakurai wants him

The reason why Geno begins to frequently appears in discussion is because of "Sakurai's favorite character" opinion in an early interview. Many Geno fans are glad to share his thought and began to heat the Geno fanbase in order to make him in Smash bros one day.

But here is a reiminder of the reality: none of the Mario titled game after Smash bros 2 or 3 includes Geno because of Sakurai's request, and none of other Nintendo directors show great interest in Geno It's very realistic that his popularity only influences the fandom culture but it still doesn't reflect on the video games.

Ultimately Smash bros is a crossover game, not part of the original franchise of the character. Even if such character appears in Smash bros, it doesn't make him/her important in the original franchise. Because if it happens, Smash bros would have been the god of Nintendo company.

Here is an alternative assumption: we know that Sakurai is gonna retire soon after Smash 5. So I just say, what if the new directer of Smash 6 has no will to include Geno? Would that make Geno's chance from 100% to 0%? This is why we cannot always rely on Sakurai's opinion. It is only meaningful when Nintendo and the Mario main directors all agree this, so that they could volunteer to give Geno chances in the first place.

Here is another thought about being in Smash bros: is it easier to go to Smash bros than being in regular titles? Taking Mario Kart titles for example, it has included more than thirty Mario characters in the general game lineup, while there are at most eleven characters from Mario universe that goes to Smash bros. Yes, it is definitely easier to go into Mario Kart or other Mario games than Smash bros. So for Geno, while arguing why he is not in Smash bros yet, I think his lack of presence in Mario games needs to be quetioned much more.

*Argument: Geno can be in Smash bros because his owner Square Enix also participates in that game

I know fans also keep saying that Square Enix's right owner is the reason why Geno cannot appear in more Mario games. So Geno can appear in Smash bros because they're in.

Uhm.... I'm shocked by this theory, well, go check the Mario game history, SquareEnix already did more Mario games, Fortune Street and Sport Mix for Wii and DS. This would have served chances for Geno and Mallow to appear as playable characters if that is what we're asknig for. If they don't appear, that only says the companies didn't really try to push it in the first place.

*Argument: Geno has a Mii costume in Smash 4

This is kinda easier, I mean,..... Ashley, Toad and others has costumes as well. Why specifically only Geno is likely for a future fighter addition in this case?

*Argument: Geno would have been in the Mario main cast if not because of SE copyright issue

Well, who knows? I hate to say it, but actually Geno's chance of becoming a Mario main character is still not that high. Based on the fact Nintendo still produces their original RPGs, Mario&Luigi series and also Paper Mario series, both introduce some key characters such as Goombario, Starlow, Fawful. But Nintendo didn't add any of these to the Mario main cast and make them playable in Mario Party or Mario Tennis.

On the other hand, we take a look at the current main Mario cast and we see that most of they mainly come from a Super Mario platformer game, with only Waluigi and Toadette come from a Mario RPG. We haven't really see a Mario RPG character successfully join the Mario main cast, otherwise we would now argue why Nintendo choose someone else but not Geno.
This is actually a problem that Nintendo doesn't seriously see Mario RPG canon as important as Super Mario platformer history. They acknowledhe BowserJr and Rosalina's importance to the Mario franchise over the RPG characters, which is a clear fact.

*Argument: Geno has cool moves so he should be picked

While I cannot say other Mario characters like Lubba, Goomabrio or Plum might not have attractive moves that Geno does, still remember that moves are not the main factor for Smash roster consideration.

For example, Zelda Musou introduce most notable and popular Zelda franchise characters, each character has own specific style of fights. Most Fire Emblem party characters also have good fight moves. Similiar cases as Kirby's Star Allies and those dream friends, which include some popular choices for Smash bros as well.

In that case, they could all perform well in Smash bros as well, but we know not all of them can be chosen as Nintendo all stars. That is the same case when many Mario characters are potential good fighters so Nintendo is only doing the choices.

*Argument: Geno could be a Square Enix representive

My immediate reaction: which game franchise of Square Enix does Geno represent? Yes, he belongs to Square Enix but that doesn't make him an important character to that company. Just being owned by SquareEnix, Eleven and Lightning can also be choices as well.

I do agree that Square Enix is the one really responsible for the whole Geno (also Mallow) issue. They obtain the characters right after SMRPG, but never make best use of them. They could jsut feature them in a FinalFantasy game, a Chocobo game or a cameo in KingdomHeartsIII, all of them could have happended and they did not in the end. Especially Square already knows Geno is a fanfavorite, sorry to be rude, it is very stupid for Square to not immediatley make Geno-related game plans to milk money from Geno fans.

But just in the case of Smash bros, Geno is not in the same place with Slime, Chocobo, Cloud or Lara Croft. He still needs to obtain his own game series in order to be as famous as those icon characters.

Banjo would serve a proper example here. He seems to be similiar with Geno: he also comes from Ninteno Mario universe (the game Diddy Kong Racing), he was obtained by Microsoft and released a series of his own featured games. Banjo is requsets to be starred in Smash bros, not because his origin in Mario universe, but he is a protagoinst of his own adventure

In Square Enix's viewpoint, Smash bros is a chance for them to promote their original characters. They would sure tend to include Cloud, Slime or Chocobo that can properly represent their ongoing franchises. Putting Geno only to please his fanbse would help nothing in their own advertising or rasing the game sales.

Oh here is an add-on: if Geno really represents Square Enix franchises, that would say he has to cut down all his origin from SMRPG just like Banjo cut his origin from Mario universe as well. So that we cannot mention the SMRPG references in future games if Geno really does that.



My conclusion is, most of the arguments lack the very important common sense: Geno is wanted simply because he is very popular, not because he has done anything important for Nintendo or he is an icon character to the video game history.
Still remember, Smash bros is important as Nintendo's history book (introducing all Nintendo franchises and retro games) and also a living advertising board that promotes all recent video game titles. It would be obscure to include a character that doesn't appear in any of the recent game of the franchise s/he originates from.

If you say "we just want Geno to Smash and those things are not important", I would question you "why?", more precisely, "Why don't you want to see Geno in more video games than Super Mario RPG?" I know Super Mario RPG is good, but really, you're happy that Geno is merely an exclusive character to that game, he could have been in much more Mario RPGs or Mario Kart and Tennis games and he never did, is that a thing that we can be proud of? No, it should not. I understand that not all Smash bros are fans of Mario games (specifically mean out of SMRPG), but if Geno's fans are not part of the Mario series games consumers, there's really no way NIntendo would listen to Geno fans if they don't believe that "Geno's return can boost Mario games sales". Nintendo would feel like Geno fans only care about Smash bros the game, but not Mario games not Geno the character itself. I definitely think it is not a good thing to be misunderstood.

In a softer tone, I just want to say, love for a character is a nice thing. I am actually glad Sakurai mentions Geno, because Nintendo has been keeping an low eye on Mario RPG characters and they are always treated badly. If a Mario RPG character can shine, things could also change the whole way Nintendo used to work. Not just Geno, but all other Mario RPG characters deserve better treats in the Mario games as well.

But ultimately we should do things in the right way if we really want to support that character. We cannot just stand here and says "he has the chance". Well, he has, but not a chance bigger than 5% tbh. What if we can do someting to make his chance grow from 5% to 100%? Wouldn't that be a wonderful thing?


My opinion is, I hope Geno fans can try to understand the following things.

1) Not just Smash bros, go support Geno to be in any Mario game that allows him to star, like Super Mario Party, Mario Kart 10 or mobile games. Cause as said, Nintendo want us to be supportive in all Mario/Nintendo games, not just Geno for Smash only.

2) Ask Square Enix to do something with him. If they don't volunteerly try to help with the Geno case, Geno will never ever really shine. Only when there's a Square Enix game that features Geno could he opens a new page in the video game history.

3) Don't just keep asking Sakurai and thinks he can do anything. He can NOT. He is only in charge of Smash bros but he cannot deal with the copyright or game role things. I think Hashimoto, Miyamoto or Takemoto, these people are much more powerful as Geno's copyright owners or Mario game creators. They could help Geno out much efficiently in his case.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Something About Super Mario RPG ANIMATED (Loud Sound Warning)? I CAN'T WAIT FOR THAT!

''CHALLENGER APPROACHING! A NEW FOE HAS APPEARED!''

If Crash Bandicoot is in the Fighter's Pass, I might get it just for him.

If Nintendo's picking the DLC and Crash is coming to the Switch in any shape or form, I think he would be a front-runner for DLC. My friend wants Crash as DLC, and I'd be happy for him if he got what he wanted after many years.

I feel like Crash is REALLY likely with CTR being on switch. But sony have been kinda bad at everything lately so, who knows.

Still not buying anything till we get Banjo or Geno.

Even though Crash Bandicoot isn't one of my most wanted picks, I would buy the Season Pass just for him alone if he get's in. I'll take whoever I support and like at this point.

Does anyone else get a surreal feeling looking at the smash roster when you realize a lot of the roster is from basically dead franchises.

It might be why it infuriates me when people use the relevancy argument. Especially with Geno.

I don't see Super Smash Bros. as just a fighting game with modern/relevant characters in it, I see it as the video game hall of fame.

My feeling is that for as many NES era exclusive nostalgia characters that we have Geno and BK would work as tributes to the SNES and N64 eras.

And that is another reason why they should both be in. Geno represents the very first Mario RPG and Banjo & Kazooie represents Rare's legacy on the N64. Both are very important too Nintendo's history.

 

[Looma]

I really want the Fighter Pass to have some gigaton picks in there (like Geno here) alongside some really well liked and once requested characters whom fans might have forgotten about and others didn't realize they wanted. A pass filled with picks like Professor Layton, Leon Kennedy, Klonoa, Fawful, Phoenix Wright, Agumon, and the like would be rad as hell and keep people on the edge of their seats as well revive interest in loads of characters and not be incredibly divisive.

I feel like Joker set the stage for the smaller guys to take a foothold and that's the type of surprise that I absolutely love from this series.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I really want the Fighter Pass to have some gigaton picks in there (like Geno here) alongside some really well liked and once requested characters whom fans might have forgotten about and others didn't realize they wanted. A pass filled with picks like Professor Layton, Leon Kennedy, Klonoa, Fawful, Phoenix Wright, Agumon, and the like would be rad as hell and keep people on the edge of their seats as well revive interest in loads of characters and not be incredibly divisive.

I feel like Joker set the stage for the smaller guys to take a foothold and that's the type of surprise that I absolutely love from this series.

After seeing Joker get in, I think either Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton are a shoe in for the Season Pass. It's possible we could get both, but it's very unlikely.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Looks like balancing issues won't pose much of a problem for the DLC cycle.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...s_balance_isnt_a_concern_for_masahiro_sakurai

Does anyone else get a surreal feeling looking at the smash roster when you realize a lot of the roster is from basically dead franchises.

It might be why it infuriates me when people use the relevancy argument. Especially with Geno.

And in some cases they never even had franchises to begin with.

I feel like Joker set the stage for the smaller guys to take a foothold and that's the type of surprise that I absolutely love from this series.

I'm willing to bet that the fifth character will be someone random, rather than a big name like Doom Marine. It's a guarantee, given the usual pattern.

 

[Graizen]

I really want the Fighter Pass to have some gigaton picks in there (like Geno here) alongside some really well liked and once requested characters whom fans might have forgotten about and others didn't realize they wanted. A pass filled with picks like Professor Layton, Leon Kennedy, Klonoa, Fawful, Phoenix Wright, Agumon, and the like would be rad as hell and keep people on the edge of their seats as well revive interest in loads of characters and not be incredibly divisive.

I feel like Joker set the stage for the smaller guys to take a foothold and that's the type of surprise that I absolutely love from this series.

Thats a good point.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Does anyone else get a surreal feeling looking at the smash roster when you realize a lot of the roster is from basically dead franchises.

It might be why it infuriates me when people use the relevancy argument. Especially with Geno.

It gets weirder the older I get honestly. The fact that Ike turns 15 this year and hasn't had a starring role in a game in almost 12 years weirds me out. Kid Icarus Uprising turning 7 this year gives me a lot of pause too. Captain Falcon and the Mother Boys are basically Smash Bros characters at this point and Star Fox has just barely been able to hold on to some semblance of relevancy mostly thanks to rereleases.

 

[Deleted member]

the Mother Boys are basically Smash Bros characters at this point

This hurts.

But I think it will change.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Like seriously I don't see these characters getting a new game any time soon. Heck I could have added some more characters that haven't even appeared in their franchise game for awhile now. Like most of the fire emblem cast.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'm pretty confident that we'll get at least one big fan favorite in the Fighter Pass. They made such a big deal about Cloud and Bayonetta's popularity that I don't think everyone will be totally left field choices. I think that's one of the more frustrating things right now is that most of the fan favorites are either assist trophies or Mii costumes, leaving just a handful that just seem slightly out of reach.

 

[Datboigeno]

Like seriously I don't see these characters getting a new game any time soon. Heck I could have added some more characters that haven't even appeared in their franchise game for awhile now. Like most of the fire emblem cast.

That’s what gets me when people bring up the fact that Geno has only been in one game. How many games have Lucas, Ice Climbers, Roy, Ike,and DH been in other than smash? But then of course they move goalposts to say “Oh well they were the star of their games” as if that matters.

 

[Deleted member]

Geno and Banjo as the fan favorites in wave 1 DLC, please

 

[Piks]

I disagree that characters need to keep having starring roles in games to be "not dead" or relevant.

MOTHER is not a dead series, it is a completed one. Shigesato Itoi did what he wanted and moved on. Ike's story in Fire Emblem has been told, he doesn't have to have the same role like a Link-esque character and be in game after game.

It doesn't make these characters any less iconic.

 

[Deleted member]

Like seriously I don't see these characters getting a new game any time soon. Heck I could have added some more characters that haven't even appeared in their franchise game for awhile now. Like most of the fire emblem cast.

bold of you to assume wii fit trainer won't star in wii fit plus deluxe: the balance board snorts coke and goes on a murderous rampage


coming 2032 to the nintendo playbox

 

[Deleted member]

I disagree that characters need to keep having starring roles in games to be "not dead" or relevant.

MOTHER is not a dead series, it is a completed one. Shigesato Itoi did what he wanted and moved on. Ike's story in Fire Emblem has been told, he doesn't have to have the same role like a Link-esque character and be in game after game.

It doesn't make these characters any less iconic.

This.

And it is so funny to realize that "characters needing to be relevant" is just a fanmade rule. There's no criteria that says they have to

 

[MissingGlitch]

bold of you to assume wii fit trainer won't star in wii fit plus deluxe: the balance board snorts coke and goes on a murderous rampage


coming 2032 to the nintendo playbox

Wii Fit Board is one of the DLC characters. Change my mind.

 

[Deleted member]

Wii Fit Board is one of the DLC characters. Change my mind.

Mr. Saturn is the Wii Fit Board in disguise, and he is DLC

 

[Piks]

This.

And it is so funny to realize that "characters needing to be relevant" is just a fanmade rule. There's no criteria that says they have to

Every fan-made rule has been broken at some point, aha. Like when people thought 3rd parties couldn't have more than one rep or Echoes.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Every fan-made rule has been broken at some point, aha. Like when people thought 3rd parties couldn't have more than one rep or Echoes.

The Smash community wouldn't even know how to react to seeing assists becoming playable in the same game. I personally don't think it's possible, but there's no rule against it, so I'd poop myself if I saw a Skull Kid trailer or something.

 

[Piks]

If Chrom can be a Final Smash as well as a character, I think Assist Trophies can get in as characters. It's not likely, but yeah.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I have a question for you all. If you play online competitively, do you teabag when you get a kill? What's your reaction when your opponent teabags upon your death?

I ask out of curiosity. Since taunting is gone, everyone is teabagging. I don't mind if it's out of good fun, but I hope people aren't teabagging their opponents just to piss them off because that's not so fun. Because when I get killed and someone starts teabagging and hopping around, the message I'm getting is "you suck at this game look how good I am" lol

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The Smash community wouldn't even know how to react to seeing assists becoming playable in the same game. I personally don't think it's possible, but there's no rule against it, so I'd poop myself if I saw a Skull Kid trailer or something.

If Chrom can be a Final Smash as well as a character, I think Assist Trophies can get in as characters. It's not likely, but yeah.

Chrom may have been done at the last minute, so we truly have no idea how true this is. If there is a DLC wave 2 though, all bets are off.

That said, I wonder how difficult it is to include irrelevant characters from third parties after /. B-K in particular has two barriers, having a dead series AND being a non-Japanese IP.

I have a question for you all. If you play online competitively, do you teabag when you get a kill? What's your reaction when your opponent teabags upon your death?

I ask out of curiosity. Since taunting is gone, everyone is teabagging. I don't mind if it's out of good fun, but I hope people aren't teabagging their opponents just to piss them off because that's not so fun. Because when I get killed and someone starts teabagging and hopping around, the message I'm getting is "you suck at this game look how good I am" lol

If I want to "taunt", I'll just use this guy and crouch.

 

[Rikarte]

I have a question for you all. If you play online competitively, do you teabag when you get a kill? What's your reaction when your opponent teabags upon your death?

I ask out of curiosity. Since taunting is gone, everyone is teabagging. I don't mind if it's out of good fun, but I hope people aren't teabagging their opponents just to piss them off because that's not so fun. Because when I get killed and someone starts teabagging and hopping around, the message I'm getting is "you suck at this game look how good I am" lol

I only teabag when
1. I get killed in an incredibly stylish/funny way
2. I give my opponent the homie stock after he SDs
3. my opponent teabags me first after getting a 1 stock advantage and I get le epic comeback

 

[valkiriforce]

I've finished up my silly nonsensical doggone vid for Geno (WARNING: Loud volume at the end):

 

[Deleted member]

I have a question for you all. If you play online competitively, do you teabag when you get a kill? What's your reaction when your opponent teabags upon your death?

I ask out of curiosity. Since taunting is gone, everyone is teabagging. I don't mind if it's out of good fun, but I hope people aren't teabagging their opponents just to piss them off because that's not so fun. Because when I get killed and someone starts teabagging and hopping around, the message I'm getting is "you suck at this game look how good I am" lol

This is gonna sound kinda bad, but I actually sometimes teabag only when I can clearly tell that I'm a bit better then the opponent.

Often times I can get them on tilt and they'll start making dumb mistakes that they wouldn't have if they weren't on tilt and it makes the match a bit easier

I will always send a "Good Fight" or "Well Played" message after the match however

Other then that I teabag when I get demolished by a sick play to acknowledge that I was decimated or when we have a fun little moment like a bit of goofing around

 

[Fatmanonice]

I disagree that characters need to keep having starring roles in games to be "not dead" or relevant.

MOTHER is not a dead series, it is a completed one. Shigesato Itoi did what he wanted and moved on. Ike's story in Fire Emblem has been told, he doesn't have to have the same role like a Link-esque character and be in game after game.

It doesn't make these characters any less iconic.

I think it's more on how I've watched the series age and seen how once highly requested characters have all but settled in. Ike's fan following was a lot like Rex's who in turn was a lot like Shulk's, for example. It's like it almost hard to remember a time when, for example, Wario and King Dedede, were these big characters waiting in the wings and just how indignant people were because they weren't in Smash yet and now there's people getting into the series who have never known any different. A good number of you here are probably not old enough to remember what a gigantic deal Samus and Ness in the original were or just how big of a WTF pick the Ice Climbers were.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Does anyone else get a surreal feeling looking at the smash roster when you realize a lot of the roster is from basically dead franchises.

It might be why it infuriates me when people use the relevancy argument. Especially with Geno.

They (those who argue relevancy) aren't completely wrong in saying that. The characters that are form "dead franchises" such as Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt, Captain Falcon and so forth, are all first party, owned entirely by Nintendo characters. All third party characters are from current active game series save for maybe Snake but that's a whole other ball of wax.

While I personally don't want relevancy to be a factor on whether or not a character should be included, it's (so far) clear that it does play a part when it comes to third party inclusions which is why I'm "banking" on: if Geno is to be added, it would be if/when Square announces whatever older games they're bringing back for the Switch as Geno would become incredibly relevant then (should SMRPG be included).

I'm going to bull**** on this one, but Geno is a Nintendo character owned by a third-party company. Geno is a Mario character, not a Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, NieR, nor a Just Cause character. It really shouldn't matter if he's third-party; this is making it seem like it's another fan-made rule. You're forgetting about Cloud Strife, because when Sakurai was choosing the first SE character for Smash 4, Nomura even asked Sakurai if he wanted Cloud since he, too, also thought Cloud wasn't as recent as the others Nomura mentioned; he will be recent again when FF7 for the Switch and when the remake comes. Also, Richter Belmont isn't relevant and hasn't had a major appearance since Harmony of Despair from 2010.

While the Ice Cuckers, Mr. Game and Watch, Little Mac, Duck Hunt are indeed irrelevant, they're part of the important part of Nintendo's history, especially Duck Hunt; this is understandable. However, you're right about Captain Falcon's franchise being a dead franchise, and we haven't had an F-Zero game since the GameCube. Pit and Palutena are one, and their franchise got a revive 21 years later, but Sakurai said he doesn't plan on working on a Kid Icarus game ever again, so we probably won't see a Kid Icarus game either ever again or not until another 10 years.

We do also have irrelevant characters, and as I listed before: Captain Falcon, King K. Rool, Richter, Ness, Lucas, Dr. Mario, Snake, Shulk, etc.
And then there's the one-timers: Lucas, Shulk, the Wii Fit Trainer (not really even from a game, literally from an exercise simulation).
And then there's even a character NOT even originating from a game, originating as an accessory/toy: Robotic Operating Buddy!

So if an irrelevant character from an irrelevant franchise that originates as a "toy" can make it in Smash, so can Geno. There shouldn't be an excuse for him being irrelevant or coming from an irrelevant franchise. End of story.

 

[Doctor Lucky]

I'm going to bull**** on this one, but Geno is a Nintendo character owned by a third-party company. Geno is a Mario character, not a Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, NieR, nor a Just Cause character. It really shouldn't matter if he's third-party; this is making it seem like it's another fan-made rule. You're forgetting about Cloud Strife, because when Sakurai was choosing the first SE character for Smash 4, Nomura even asked Sakurai if he wanted Cloud since he, too, also thought Cloud wasn't as relevant as the others Nomura mentioned; he will be relevant again when FF7 for the Switch and when the remake comes. Also, Richter Belmont isn't relevant and hasn't had a major appearance since Harmony of Despair from 2010.

While the Ice Cuckers, Mr. Game and Watch, Little Mac, Duck Hunt are indeed irrelevant, they're part of the important part of Nintendo's history, especially Duck Hunt; this is understandable. However, you're right about Captain Falcon's franchise being a dead franchise, and we haven't had an F-Zero game since the GameCube. Pit and Palutena are one, and their franchise got a revive 21 years later, but Sakurai said he doesn't plan on working on a Kid Icarus game ever again, so we probably won't see a Kid Icarus game either ever again or not until another 10 years.

We do also have irrelevant characters, and as I listed before: Captain Falcon, King K. Rool, Richter, Ness, Lucas, Dr. Mario, Snake, Shulk, Cloud, etc.
And then there's the one-timers: Lucas, Shulk, the Wii Fit Trainer (not really even from a game, literally from an exercise simulation).
And then there's even a character NOT even originating from a game, originating as an accessory/toy: Robotic Operating Buddy!

So if an irrelevant character from an irrelevant franchise that originates as a "toy" can make it in Smash, so can Geno. There shouldn't be an excuse for him being irrelevant or coming from an irrelevant franchise. End of story.

You seem to have completely misunderstood me. I'm not saying that the "rule of relevancy" is correct, or even a thing, but what I am saying is relevancy, for better or for worse, does play a part in having third party characters included to Smash.

Snake, Shulk, and Cloud are also far from irrelevant. Metal Gear is still (barely) a thing, Shulk is from a game series that is still ongoing, and to be quite honest, thinking Cloud is irrelevant is almost laughable as besides being one of if not the most popular and recognizable character from the Final Fantasy series, there's still the FF7 remake somewhere on the horizon.

The only characters who aren't wholly Nintendo owned and whose relevancy is suspect are Simon and Richter, but even though I don't know enough about Castlevania to comment on how "relevant" they are nowadays what with Konami being a bit off their rocker, the Castlevania series is a both well known and beloved series that has defined not only an entire genre, but countless games themselves. So while Simon or Richter may not be the stars of any new games, the series they come from is one of great renown and respect.

Geno on the other hand is from one game (fantastic game mind you), doesn't say much, has a great design and overall aesthetic, and that's really all that's notable about him (compared to the other "irrelevant" characters).


tl;dr while not an actual "rule" as there aren't any save for a character must be originally from a video game, relevancy does play a part in which third party characters are considered for Smash Bros. whether we like it or not.

 

[Deleted member]

Every fan-made rule has been broken at some point, aha. Like when people thought 3rd parties couldn't have more than one rep or Echoes.

What about the dumb one? “Spirits deconfirm fighters!”

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This hurts.

But I think it will change.

Without the Mother series seeing new releases, how?

B-K in particular has two barriers, having a dead series AND being a non-Japanese IP.

Even though Nintendo owns and , they're Rare's babies. The way I see it, Banjo & Kazooie are just as much as Nintendo characters as and . If Nintendo let finally join Smash after keeping him buried for 10 years, than I don't see them backing down Banjo & Kazooie since Phil Spencer is up for it. The only reason I could see why Nintendo wouldn't want Banjo & Kazooie in is because of them being a IP of their competitor.

I have a question for you all. If you play online competitively, do you teabag when you get a kill? What's your reaction when your opponent teabags upon your death?

I ask out of curiosity. Since taunting is gone, everyone is teabagging. I don't mind if it's out of good fun, but I hope people aren't teabagging their opponents just to piss them off because that's not so fun. Because when I get killed and someone starts teabagging and hopping around, the message I'm getting is "you suck at this game look how good I am" lol

I will only teabag somebody if they are teabagging me. I will make sure to give them the same amount that they would give me.

I think it's more on how I've watched the series age and seen how once highly requested characters have all but settled in. Ike's fan following was a lot like Rex's who in turn was a lot like Shulk's, for example. It's like it almost hard to remember a time when, for example, Wario and King Dedede, were these big characters waiting in the wings and just how indignant people were because they weren't in Smash yet and now there's people getting into the series who have never known any different. A good number of you here are probably not old enough to remember what a gigantic deal Samus and Ness in the original were or just how big of a WTF pick the Ice Climbers were.

Melee was my first Smash game and it was the first time I was introduced to the Metroid, Star Fox, Kirby, Mother, F-Zero, and Fire Emblem franchises. So everybody besides the Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon characters were completely new to me at the time.

Also, was King Dedede like the King K. Rool of the 64/Melee/pre-Brawl period? And who would the modern equivalent of Wario be? I ask because I wasn't around in the speculation scene during those years.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

I have a question for you all. If you play online competitively, do you teabag when you get a kill? What's your reaction when your opponent teabags upon your death?

I ask out of curiosity. Since taunting is gone, everyone is teabagging. I don't mind if it's out of good fun, but I hope people aren't teabagging their opponents just to piss them off because that's not so fun. Because when I get killed and someone starts teabagging and hopping around, the message I'm getting is "you suck at this game look how good I am" lol

The only time I taunt is when the match starts right away. I only wavedash after I kill my enemies.

#GameCubeControllerMeleeGang
#GameCubeJoystickSoundsIntensify

 

[Piks]

I never teabag at all. It's just disrespectful, where-as taunting is actually charming in any scenario. (even if it's as the name implies...taunting)

I make a note not to teabag online. If the opponent teabags, I just stand still after I kill them to show them I'm not doing it. They actually catch on and stop, usually. Not always. But usually.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

You seem to have completely misunderstood me. I'm not saying that the "rule of relevancy" is correct, or even a thing, but what I am saying is relevancy, for better or for worse, does play a part in having third party characters included to Smash.

Snake, Shulk, and Cloud are also far from irrelevant. Metal Gear is still (barely) a thing, Shulk is from a game series that is still ongoing, and to be quite honest, thinking Cloud is irrelevant is almost laughable as besides being one of if not the most popular and recognizable character from the Final Fantasy series, there's still the FF7 remake somewhere on the horizon.

The only characters who aren't wholly Nintendo owned and whose relevancy is suspect are Simon and Richter, but even though I don't know enough about Castlevania to comment on how "relevant" they are nowadays what with Konami being a bit off their rocker, the Castlevania series is a both well known and beloved series that has defined not only an entire genre, but countless games themselves. So while Simon or Richter may not be the stars of any new games, the series they come from is one of great renown and respect.

Geno on the other hand is from one game (fantastic game mind you), doesn't say much, has a great design and overall aesthetic, and that's really all that's notable about him (compared to the other "irrelevant" characters).


tl;dr while not an actual "rule" as there aren't any save for a character must be originally from a video game, relevancy does play a part in which third party characters are considered for Smash Bros. whether we like it or not.

1. You completely missed the part where I said Cloud will be relevant again when I mentioned FF7 coming to the Switch and when the remake comes out. I apologize if I said and meant "relevant" in a bad way, but I should've been more specific; I meant major appearance relevancy wise, main character wise, protagonist-wise. If Sakurai himself even thinks there are more relevant characters than Cloud, then that definitely shows Sakurai doesn't care about relevancy when it comes to third-parties, and he still chose Cloud, even when Nomura asked him if he wanted other recent FF characters. Sakurai even tried to get Geno a second time in SSB4, even knowing that he was still irrelevant in 2014. Sakurai loves irrelevant characters.

2. I know Geno is from one game because I've played Super Mario RPG before (a game where I know is fantastic and one of the first AND best SNES game I've ever played).

3. Shulk was only in one game and hasn't been a relevant character since 2010. We know Xenoblade is still going on, but he hasn't appeared in his series since 2010. Don't even mention Xenoblade Chronicles 3D because that was only a port for the 3DS. Until I see Shulk as the protagonist again in a new or upcoming Xenoblade game, then he's a relevant protagonist again.

4. Erdrick's latest major appearance was DQ3 from 1988. In other words, he's not a relevant protagonist. If Erdrick is our Square rep, the fan-made rule where third-party character's relevancy matters will be thrown down the drain.

5. Geno is an irrelevant character, correct, but the last time I remember, I believe the Mario series is still running and well.

 

[Datboigeno]

I have a question for you all. If you play online competitively, do you teabag when you get a kill? What's your reaction when your opponent teabags upon your death?

I ask out of curiosity. Since taunting is gone, everyone is teabagging. I don't mind if it's out of good fun, but I hope people aren't teabagging their opponents just to piss them off because that's not so fun. Because when I get killed and someone starts teabagging and hopping around, the message I'm getting is "you suck at this game look how good I am" lol

When I see people teabag its usually super douchey. Like they're just completely dominating someone who is less skilled or they're down by like 2 stocks and get a kill and do it. More often than not it definitely comes off as trying to piss people off.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't teabag lol.

After I take a stock, I just stand there too.

 

[Tetrin]

I never teabag, but instead I use my counter move (I'm a Roy main). I don't mean it in a disrespectful way-- it's my way of saying gg.

 

[Deleted member]

(I'm a Roy main).

Your Marth stock icon begs to differ

 

[6eyondthegrave]

I only teabag when
1. I get killed in an incredibly stylish/funny way
2. I give my opponent the homie stock after he SDs
3. my opponent teabags me first after getting a 1 stock advantage and I get le epic comeback

Sounds like what I do lol

 

[Klimax]

I always teabag, disrespecting is part of the fun, this is not harmful at all.