Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Hydreigonfan01]

Well this is worrying

 

[Deleted member]

Well this is worrying

Eh, this doesn't change much from what we already know

 

[Klimax]

Well this is worrying

Not even mad, I don't believe in Geno's chances since the last smash direct.

 

[Deleted member]

I still believe in Geno's chances

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well this is worrying

At least it's better information than the character data we had. Now we have proper evidence. Unless that's of course the character symbol and it applies to any DQ character, I think we got Erdrick/Loto/Roto in. Back to 99% to me.

 

[Ovaltine]

Man, a return for Geno and Mallow in the main Mario series in any form, as well as historically being some of the first RPG characters to be more main series characters, is what we should be aiming for first. I've been saying this since the beginning myself. I'm a little hit or miss on a small fragment of your arguments, but I'm too exhausted to go into detail on it right now. Generally, though, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

https://smashboards.com/threads/operation-starfall-bringing-life-to-smrpg-again.467163/

This is why Operation Starfall exists, too.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well this is worrying

The guy's getting really close to leaking, if true. Although I've been open to this possibility anyway. Just remember: the more SE characters that are picked means that fan support and focus on Geno will get even harder. Operation Starfall exists for such a contingency.

Seriously, Kumazaki, do you want Sakurai to continue passing over Kirby characters? Sak is trying to keep his surprises hidden.

At least it's better information than the character data we had. Now we have proper evidence. Unless that's of course the character symbol and it applies to any DQ character, I think we got Erdrick/Loto/Roto in. Back to 99% to me.

Although it would be funny if it turns out to be Slime or one of the secondary character from IV or VIII instead.

Oh, and by the way, it seems MC wants to bring Xbox Live as cross-play to Switch.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not convinced Eddy is DLC until I see him revealed (if he is DLC).

 

[Doctor Lucky]

1. You completely missed the part where I said Cloud will be relevant again when I mentioned FF7 coming to the Switch and when the remake comes out. I apologize if I said and meant "relevant" in a bad way, but I should've been more specific; I meant major appearance relevancy wise, main character wise, protagonist-wise. If Sakurai himself even thinks there are more relevant characters than Cloud, then that definitely shows Sakurai doesn't care about relevancy when it comes to third-parties, and he still chose Cloud, even when Nomura asked him if he wanted other recent FF characters. Sakurai even tried to get Geno a second time in SSB4, even knowing that he was still irrelevant in 2014. Sakurai loves irrelevant characters.

2. I know Geno is from one game because I've played Super Mario RPG before (a game where I know is fantastic and one of the first AND best SNES game I've ever played).

3. Shulk was only in one game and hasn't been a relevant character since 2010. We know Xenoblade is still going on, but he hasn't appeared in his series since 2010. Don't even mention Xenoblade Chronicles 3D because that was only a port for the 3DS. Until I see Shulk as the protagonist again in a new or upcoming Xenoblade game, then he's a relevant protagonist again.

4. Erdrick's latest major appearance was DQ3 from 1988. In other words, he's not a relevant protagonist. If Erdrick is our Square rep, the fan-made rule where third-party character's relevancy matters will be thrown down the drain.

5. Geno is an irrelevant character, correct, but the last time I remember, I believe the Mario series is still running and well.

Sorry I missed you mentioning FF7's remake, but saying that "relevancy correlates to a character being a main character/protagonist" would be putting your own opinion on the matter as a rule that people who argue/think "relevancy" need/should adhere to when relevancy is simply: how recently has this character been of interest to the masses.

A character is relevant if they've made or will be making any sort of appearance in recent years. Their position in the game itself being irrelevant to their objective relevancy. Though I will say popularity is another beast entirely but that's not why I'm here.

Even so, it is also true that "relevancy based on time" isn't a driving factor by itself.

Say Cloud was added but there was no FF7 remake in the works. Would people argue that Lightning, Noctis, or some other more recent FF character be included? Oh most definitely some people would, but Cloud is a wildly popular character that is both known by series veterans, and those with surface level knowledge of Final Fantasy, so who better represent the series than him? Compared to say Geno, who while true is technically a Mario character, his impact on the Mario franchise is minuscule, even before comparing him to someone like Cloud.

An appearance by Cloud would drive sales. An appearance by Geno would create interest.

As for Sakurai's love for "irrelevant" characters, it's true that it looks like he has a bit of a soft spot for old characters, when it comes to third party it really isn't up to him. To my knowledge he is provided a list collected by Nintendo which he gets to pick from, the characters gathered by Nintendo are most likely ones that have been chosen/agreed upon by and with their third party holders, and all the characters given by these third party owners have so far been all relevant (I'm starting to hate that word) during the time they've been added to the game.

Though you may not like it, Xenoblade's 3DS re-release does in fact make Shulk relevant all things considered. The game is brought back to the forefront of people's minds and into the spotlight with Shulk being a Roy or Marth like character that has people see them and think "I wonder who this character is from" and check out their game or game series.

Sakurai could want Geno until he's blue in the face, but if Square doesn't see any benefit to allowing Sakurai to use him as the character itself is from an old game that hasn't seen any recent re-releases and most likely wouldn't help them profit from his inclusion outside of DLC character purchases, why bother giving Geno as an option? If they handed out Erdrick, just like Marth and Roy, that would point people towards Dragon Quest and thus have the bonus of advertising to a whole new audience for upcoming DQ games on top of DLC sales.

Which is once again why I firmly believe that if we're to see Geno as a potential Smash character, it will be around the time that Square announces whatever old games they're bringing back for the Switch.

Or if we get another random old character who isn't relevant in the slightest to any current happenings in the video game industry that belongs to a third party that completely blows this pattern out of the water and in that case it'll truly be a free for all (Gex when?).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

(Gex when?).

Does Dana Gould still do stuff?

 

[HolyKnight]

Well this is worrying

yikes.
this is probably bad news.

 

[Sovereign Trinity]

Sorry I missed you mentioning FF7's remake, but saying that "relevancy correlates to a character being a main character/protagonist" would be putting your own opinion on the matter as a rule that people who argue/think "relevancy" need/should adhere to when relevancy is simply: how recently has this character been of interest to the masses.

A character is relevant if they've made or will be making any sort of appearance in recent years. Their position in the game itself being irrelevant to their objective relevancy. Though I will say popularity is another beast entirely but that's not why I'm here.

Even so, it is also true that "relevancy based on time" isn't a driving factor by itself.

Say Cloud was added but there was no FF7 remake in the works. Would people argue that Lightning, Noctis, or some other more recent FF character be included? Oh most definitely some people would, but Cloud is a wildly popular character that is both known by series veterans, and those with surface level knowledge of Final Fantasy, so who better represent the series than him? Compared to say Geno, who while true is technically a Mario character, his impact on the Mario franchise is minuscule, even before comparing him to someone like Cloud.

An appearance by Cloud would drive sales. An appearance by Geno would create interest.

As for Sakurai's love for "irrelevant" characters, it's true that it looks like he has a bit of a soft spot for old characters, when it comes to third party it really isn't up to him. To my knowledge he is provided a list collected by Nintendo which he gets to pick from, the characters gathered by Nintendo are most likely ones that have been chosen/agreed upon by and with their third party holders, and all the characters given by these third party owners have so far been all relevant (I'm starting to hate that word) during the time they've been added to the game.

Though you may not like it, Xenoblade's 3DS re-release does in fact make Shulk relevant all things considered. The game is brought back to the forefront of people's minds and into the spotlight with Shulk being a Roy or Marth like character that has people see them and think "I wonder who this character is from" and check out their game or game series.

Sakurai could want Geno until he's blue in the face, but if Square doesn't see any benefit to allowing Sakurai to use him as the character itself is from an old game that hasn't seen any recent re-releases and most likely wouldn't help them profit from his inclusion outside of DLC character purchases, why bother giving Geno as an option? If they handed out Erdrick, just like Marth and Roy, that would point people towards Dragon Quest and thus have the bonus of advertising to a whole new audience for upcoming DQ games on top of DLC sales.

Which is once again why I firmly believe that if we're to see Geno as a potential Smash character, it will be around the time that Square announces whatever old games they're bringing back for the Switch.

Or if we get another random old character who isn't relevant in the slightest to any current happenings in the video game industry that belongs to a third party that completely blows this pattern out of the water and in that case it'll truly be a free for all (Gex when?).

Black Mage would be a pretty cool FF character to have after Cloud. One of the first playable characters that's been here since the very first FF game, ever since the NES era. Oh wow, I just realized Black Mage would be a retro rep!

 

[Doctor Lucky]

Well this is worrying

Well that's somewhat damning now isn't it? Unless it's one of the most unlikely of coincidences, this appears to be rather conclusive that something Dragon Quest related is coming to Smash.

Can't say I'm not disappointed, I personally don't have any attachment to DQ at all, but I am well aware of just how incredibly popular it is in Japan, and throwing another juggernaut of an icon into Smash (along with Cloud) makes perfect sense.

But I can't help but shake the feeling that this isn't the end. It's entirely possible that Nintendo and Square could've agreed upon two Square reps for the DLC characters, what with the fairly big financial blow not getting the lion's share off of Cloud's inclusion is. But that's (fittingly) rather wishful thinking.

Still doesn't mean I won't stop believing in Geno, far from it.

Black Mage would be a pretty cool FF character to have after Cloud. One of the first playable characters that's been here since the very first FF game, ever since the NES era. Oh wow, I just realized Black Mage would be a retro rep!

I for one would gladly take Black Mage with open arms.

 

[Ovaltine]

i thought i said i was taking a break

Honestly, I've been trying to warn y'all. This makes me even more positive that Erdrick is in, and that there is no way Geno would be in the Fighter's Pass. I have to seriously, strongly recommend to hope for him outside of the FP as some sort of misc. DLC or part of another 'wave', more than likely the former.

Don't give up hope, but know where to place it, guys.

... and also support Operation Starfall because Smash ain't the only way we can revive our boy.

 

[Deleted member]

We've known that brave has a connection to Erdrick for a while now. But guess what? Brave is not an exclusive term to Dragon Quest.

All this has confirmed is that brave is connected to DQ. It by no means confirms that Erdrick is DLC for Ultimate.

 

[Deleted member]

Well this is worrying

We've known that brave has a connection to Erdrick for a while now. But guess what? Brave is not an exclusive term to Dragon Quest.

All this has confirmed is that brave is connected to DQ. It by no means confirms that Erdrick is DLC for Ultimate.

It’s ok I wasn’t expecting geno to be brave anyway

But hey that geno rumor still stands until proven false
That’s the good sign

 

[TheCJBrine]

I thought we already knew that yuusha directly translated to brave...?

The shield would actually be called "The Hero's Shield," though someone found that the specific shield is Erdrick's - however that post means nothing for Smash, as it gives us nothing new.

 

[MattX20]

This is a big stretch. Hal isn't involved in Smash anymore and I'm pretty sure Sakurai would've not allowed such a blatant hint like this.

 

[link2702]

The more I think about it, the more I sadly think that’s probably the nail in the coffin unfortunately. I remember when sakurai posted a picture of a replica of the monado Years ago during the lead up to smash4. And then we got Shulk later. HAL is still very close to sakurai, I feel like they wouldn’t post something like that during dlc speculation if they weren’t trying to hint at something.

I’m still trying to hold on to that tiny sliver of hope, that maybe this is either all a coincidence, or some big brain trolling/leak baiting by Nintendo, sakurai, and everyone close to them, all to keep everyone completely confused.

If it is true it’s Erdrick or someone dq related, I’ll most certainly be upset, and the chance of me buying the fighter pass goes down to zero(but if banjo gets in I might buy him individually, as well as if another character I’m mildly interested in gets in, who I can’t say since I can’t think of anyone else I really wanted besides bk and geno, but I won’t buy the pass), however, I still think we should put the blame entirely on Nintendo and se, because like I mentioned before, all these smrpg references by sakurai could be an apology by him to geno fans for not being able to get him. I really truly hoped it was more a hint for us to be patient and let us know he’s coming, but that image made me feel that’s less likely now.

I’ve said this a million times, but please Nintendo, sakurai, hell even square, let us know already, quit leaving us in limbo. Give us the announcement of the SE Character so we can either celebrate, or get our grief out of the way and move on. This constant unknowing as well as what we perceive as teasing, is too stressful for us.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I still don't think we should treat it as a hint.

he apparently posts images of a Kirby plush with equipment from other series as well, so this is like saying he could be hinting with any of those. Just because he's affiliated with Sakurai doesn't mean he's hinting, he's much more-likely just posting stuff he likes. Sakurai doesn't really hint much save for a few times where what he was probably hinting at came the next day/even sooner, anyway.

edit: also, the guy probably doesn't even know English, which makes it more-likely a thing to do with how he translates stuff. We have absolutely zero reason to believe he was hinting, and I don't understand why we have to act like everyone who is affiliated with Smash in anyway can't just be doing stuff people normally do...

 

[Ovaltine]

I wouldn't give up hope for Geno yet, at least in terms of DLC that may or may not happen outside of the Fighter's Pass. I wouldn't necessarily say it's over yet. If anything, this just confirms to me what I already believed, that Erdrick is in the pass and Geno, at least for the time being, is deconfirmed. However, you shouldn't stop supporting him, and if you do, support Operation Starfall. Support a return to form for him and Mallow.

That being said, I don't blame Sakurai for this at all. NoJ made the decisions and Square apparently didn't say no to anything, nor did anyone else. NoJ probably just didn't ask for Geno. I'm not even sure if I'd place the blame on Square, but rather, NoJ, and even then, I understand why they chose DQ. Its legacy is immense and we can't just ignore that.

 

[link2702]

I’m not ever going to not support him, rather I just keep getting the feeling it’s not gonna happen this game. I’ve supported him since the early brawl speculation days, I’m not gonna stop now. But it is feeling more and more like this time it’s once again not his time.

I’d like to believe there’s gonna be more dlc even after the fighter pass, I mean hell maybe they really do wanna make this the ultimate game by having 100 fighters, but I feel like that’s gonna be such a monumental task that they will rather settle on this, and then move on.

 

[Piks]

Yep, that Instagram post is definitely a strong pointer towards Erdrick. The evidence is quite overwhelming. I don't see any other way to look at it - "Brave" is certainly at the very minimum a Dragon Quest character. But most likely Erdrick.

The main reason why I wouldn't want Erdrick is the fact it would take Geno's spot as a Square spot. But after I get over that fact, I'd look forward to seeing how they can make him a unique character. Sakurai said he thought about how he'd make swordfighters unique...I'm curious with what he'd do. I have faith he'd be fun to play, even if another swordfighter is a bit of a bland pick. (and I have no issue with the existing ones, just another one would be a bit much)

Geno would have been a character that was totally unique, but that is life. Nintendo executives chose and Sakurai did what he could.

 

[TheCJBrine]

if the instagram post is strong evidence for Erdrick, then we already had this same evidence from the DQ games themselves.

 

[3DSNinja]

Hal Labs didn't develop Ultimate, I still think Brave is Sora.

 

[Deleted member]

Y’all are forgetting one thing about geno

HES A MARIO CHARACTER!

Erdrick isn’t a mario character so idk why your saying “genos dead!”

Let’s compare shantae and SK two indie characters shantae is from wayforward SK is from ycg two different series it doesn’t affect either ones chances if SK gets in before her.

Now geno from super mario and erdrick from dq same thing nothing wrong for their chances.

CALM DOWN!

 

[Ovaltine]

Y’all are forgetting one thing about geno

HES A MARIO CHARACTER!

Erdrick isn’t a mario character so idk why your saying “genos dead!”

Let’s compare shantae and SK two indie characters shantae is from wayforward SK is from ycg two different series it doesn’t affect either ones chances if SK gets in before her.

Now geno from super mario and erdrick from dq same thing nothing wrong for their chances.

CALM DOWN!

Well, if he were a first party and he wasn't owned by Square Enix, I'd agree, but... the fact of the matter is that he's a third party. He's not 'just a Mario character'. He's also a Square Enix character, and thus, he is lumped in with other SE characters as such.

That being said, Erdrick being in doesn't mean Geno won't be in, at least not in general. It mostly just tells me he won't be in the Fighter's Pass. Outside of that, Geno's chances are still somewhat decent.

 

[HolyKnight]

This is a big stretch. Hal isn't involved in Smash anymore and I'm pretty sure Sakurai would've not allowed such a blatant hint like this.

I hope you're right. I've dealt with enough disappointment lately.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh. Didn't Sakurai post a pic of an action figure resembling Mach Rider? Wasn't the Rathalos pic on the website also a reference to Golden Sun? Aren't there other photos of the HAL guy praising other series? As much as I'd love this to be the hint, it probably isn't worth noting until we get an official confirmation.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh. Didn't Sakurai post a pic of an action figure resembling Mach Rider? Wasn't the Rathalos pic on the website also a reference to Golden Sun? Aren't there other photos of the HAL guy praising other series? As much as I'd love this to be the hint, it probably isn't worth noting until we get an official confirmation.

I think that rathalos pic was for the mhw arena

 

[TheCJBrine]

even if Erdrick is in, that doesn't mean this is a hint, because...I'm gonna have to repeat my last few posts here...

1. he has similar posts, with a Kirby plush next to a weapon/piece of equipment from a certain series

2. there's no reason to believe everyone affiliated with Smash isn't just posting stuff they like/they're doing things people normally do

3. the "evidence" the instagram post gives us...is the same stuff we already knew due to people who have knowledge of DQ sharing info on how Brave could be Erdrick. I really don't know why y'all are doom and gloom just now about something we already knew

 

[Piks]

Some people treat the SMRPG references in Smash as some evidence towards Geno, but this Erdrick hint is taken and rushed to be dismissed.

 

[Deleted member]

I think that rathalos pic was for the mhw arena

Eh debatable. The angle the picture is framed in is very much like Golden Sun. A more unambiguous reference would probably be the Karate Joe pose DK makes in the K. Rool trailer when watching TV.

Some people treat the SMRPG references in Smash as some evidence towards Geno, but this Erdrick hint is taken and rushed to be dismissed.

Eh. I'm not taking Super Mario RPG references as evidence, and I'm sure as Hell not taking the Erdrick shield as evidence.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Some people treat the SMRPG references in Smash as some evidence towards Geno, but this Erdrick hint is taken and rushed to be dismissed.

personally I see the stuff in Smash as things that could lead to Geno, not because they're "hints," but moreso because Nintendo has acknowledged SMRPG lately, while straight-up dropping Geno's name on Twitter and that answer to a question on the HQ app during the Videogame Awards. It could, however, just be them acknowledging the game due to fans, not knowing that speculative fans are gonna expect Geno or Mallow in Smash or a new SMRPG game (I mean they don't expect Mii Costume or Assist Trophy backlash so they're probably not gonna do anything but acknowledge SMRPG, too...).

This, however...is not from a Nintendo higher-up/official account/sponsored thing, isn't in Smash or any other game, and is from someone who has done the same kind of posts with other stuff. He doesn't work on Smash, either, and most-likely doesn't even know about the codename. I honestly can't see why this is being taken as a Smash Bros. hint when it's just a guy posting stuff he likes, as people normally do, and it's nothing we didn't already know. Y'all may as well have been acting doom and gloom since we learned about the "brave" character in the first place.

 

[Doctor Lucky]

Some people treat the SMRPG references in Smash as some evidence towards Geno, but this Erdrick hint is taken and rushed to be dismissed.

Exactly.

Now I don't like the idea of Brave being Erdrick instead of Geno as much as the next person, but it would be foolish to think that Nintendo doesn't know what they're doing in regards to advertising the fighter pass and leaking certain bits of information to build, and keep hype going.

If the Brave and Jack data leaks were actually that critical, they most certainly would've been caught before the patch shipped out, but if they weren't, Nintendo could've easily hotfixed it instead of waiting for the next big patch that introduced a new fighter to remove said information.

Same applies here, while it is entirely possible that the shield and Kirby post is just another post in a long line "here's a neat merch thing plus Kirby" pictures, it's a bit too coincidental for my liking given how the shield's emblem is Roto's AKA Erdrick AKA the Erdrick people are speculating Brave to be.

On the other hand it's also entirely possible all these things (the Erdrick leaks, the Brave and Jack leaks, and this shield post) are all completely coincidental and just happen to point to Erdrick being Brave, but that's really no different than speculating about Geno or any other character based on bits of information gleamed from different, but not wholly official sources.

 

[Deleted member]

personally I see the stuff in Smash as things that could lead to Geno, not because they're "hints," but moreso because Nintendo has acknowledged SMRPG lately, while straight-up dropping Geno's name on Twitter and that answer to a question on the HQ app during the Videogame Awards. It could, however, just be them acknowledging the game due to fans, not knowing that speculative fans are gonna expect Geno or Mallow in Smash or a new SMRPG game (I mean they don't expect Mii Costume or Assist Trophy backlash so they're probably not gonna do anything but acknowledge SMRPG, too...).

This, however...is not from a Nintendo higher-up/official account/sponsored thing, isn't in Smash or any other game, and is from someone who has done the same kind of posts with other stuff. He doesn't work on Smash, either, and most-likely doesn't even know about the codename. I honestly can't see why this is being taken as a Smash Bros. hint when it's just a guy posting stuff he likes, as people normally do, and it's nothing we didn't already know. Y'all may as well have been acting doom and gloom since we learned about the "brave" character in the first place.

This.

What we saw today isn't anything that has to do with Smash. It only confirms what we've known all along - that brave has a connection to DQ.

This is not an Erdrick confirmation. Brave is not an exclusive term to DQ. And this has nothing to do with Smash.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

To play devil's advocate; there's nothing particularly smash related in that post from what I see. Plus if we're taking the DQ fan's at their word; people over in Japan absolutely LOVE Dragon Quest. It would be about as innocuous as Sakurai tweeting about Mario or somthing. Regardless of if they are in Smash or not; it's just natural that they bring it up from time to time. Now if it was somthing like, say, Undertale that would be a bit suspicious.

 

[TheCJBrine]

yes I'm really not getting how this is a Smash hint, especially since this guy doesn't even work on Smash and saying he's hinting at Smash intentionally is either saying Sakurai knows about the dataminers and told a friend to help him spoil the DLC, or saying Nintendo is playing 4D chess with us; I've seen people say certain things from Sakurai were hints, and they ended up being coincidences. The only "hints" Sakurai gives us, if they actually are hints, are always confirmed literally the next day or within the same video (unless that one Direct background actually was a K. Rool hint *shrug*).

Brave and Jack were left in the code because Nintendo messes up sometimes, not thinking about the people who dig through the code for new stuff because they can't be patient. They did the same thing with Roy and Ryu in Smash 4.

The SMRPG stuff may sadly be coincidences as well, as Nintendo is probably just acknowledging it instead of secretly having plans to make a new SMRPG game with Square or making Geno and Mallow playable characters in Smash...

Why can't this just be a person posting something he likes as people normally do? How is it even a Smash hint? He's Japanese, it's very likely he thought of the equivalent of "hero" but his translation-thing or whatever he did just made it "brave" because of how similar the words are in Japanese. It's also nothing we didn't already know, so it's still not gonna be a case of 4D chess even if Erdrick is confirmed, because he was most-likely Brave anyway due to info we already had, the very same info y'all are bringing up this instagram post for.

 

[Deleted member]

Sooooo...brave remains unknown still?

 

[Deleted member]

Sooooo...brave remains unknown still?

The sky is blue, yes. Hell we don't even know now that Brave is Brave anymore because the codename was patched out of the game.