General Ness discussion

[R:U:N]

Really?
Curse my scrubliness, I've been lied to lol
Regardless, I wouldn't wanna go only to get completely destroyed first round haha
I guess I'll just try to get a lot better over this year and see how I do

 

[Bones0]

Just go for friendlies. You don't have to enter the actual tournament.

 

[R:U:N]

Yeah that's probably the best thing to do.
So awesome I guess I'll see you guys there

 

[Sinji]

Got ninja'ed by bones on the last page

 

[R:U:N]

With the marth matchup? lol yeah bones actually knows what he's talking about, and like I said, I basically have no experience in that matchup, and less experience in general, so listen to him, not me xD
Despite being ninja'ed, that was some very helpful advice for marth, so thanks bones (:

 

[Bones0]

Sure thing. Next time I play I'll try and get some concrete things down and write up a whole mini-guide on how to approach the matchup. 90% of my time playing Ness is just experimenting with things because I feel like he still has so much undiscovered potential for different tricks and traps, but it would probably help to be working from a more solid foundation of strategy anyway.

 

[thesage]

The marth matchup consists of wd'ing around a lot, sidestps, wd oos, fair, and trying to land grabs for combos.

Also it's unpossible to win against somebody who knows what they are doing.

 

[Bones0]

Ewwww, side steps.

 

[Frisbie]

hey what do you guys think about the ness vs luigi matchup? if anyone kmows about that lol

 

[thesage]

You spam fair lots and space crazy well or else you get *****.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ness is too one-dimensional to have match-ups.

If you know how to control Ness, and you know how your opponent's character works, it should be obvious what to do lol

 

[odinNJ]

If you know how to control Ness, and you know how your opponent's character works, it should be obvious what to do lol

Isn't that called knowing the matchup? Lol.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Not really.

I can control Fox, and I know how Link works.

I have very little idea how to play that match-up.

 

[odinNJ]

Fair enough. I just think that ness can be very versatile.

 

[R:U:N]

Well what really defines a character's "dimensions"?
Because I wouldn't use the same tactics on a fox as I would on a puff, playing as ness or anyone else.
Unless you're playing marth. Then you just fsmash.
haha jk but I dunno if ness is really one-dimensional, he's got a great arsenal of different types of moves, which is one of the big reasons I main him

 

[Sinji]

I find the Ness vs Ganon match up interesting. Getting in Ganon's zone with pressured nairs>dtilts. Shield stabs are reliable in the match up. Edge guarding with bairs or dairs after ganon uses down b.

 

[Bones0]

I hate nair for stuff like shield pressure. If I'm going to DJC a low aerial to hit someone in front of me, I'd much rather use uair than nair.

And the only edge guarding tool you need vs. Ganon is PK Flash. ^_^

 

[R:U:N]

lol pk flash is the most hilarious edgeguard against people like ganon with predictable recoveries, that and pkt2 false edgeguard
bair is also pretty nice for shield pressure, especially cuz it shieldpokes when you djc it

 

[R:U:N]

anyone got any advice for ness vs. sheik? I got demolished by sheiks at my last tourney, mainly when it came to getting chaingrabbed and egdeguarded
Ideas?

 

[thesage]

Either you pick another character or you bait them into grabs. You have to space significantly better than Sheik. It's honestly easier to learn Sheik dittos.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If you're recovering with Ness, there are some rules that pretty much apply to every match-up.

If you are close to the stage, air dodge on.
If you are middle-distance away, you will die.
If you are far away, aim PK Thunder 2 towards the ledge. If they are holding the ledge, adjust your timing to wait out their invincibility.

That's the best you can do for avoiding edge-guarding, I'm afraid.

-----

To avoid the chain-grab, space better.

 

[R:U:N]

Yeah, spacing is definitely something I could've done better, I was playing more offensive than usual that day. With sheik, it gets to be difficult since you have pretty much no room to breathe, so I guess a big stage would've been a better counterpick.
I chose battlefield... What was I thinking? lol
The one redeeming thing about the edgeguarding was that most people haven't practiced the ness matchup, so I got a couple of stocks off the sheik with pkt2 on my recovery xD
Thanks for the help!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

When you counterpick, remember to focus on why you lost the previous match, rather than thinking about "Is this stage good for this match-up?"

Like you said, if you didn't have any breathing room then you should've picked a big stage

When I play against Sheik in this MU, I generally just stick near a platform and waveland/fair/double jump a lot lol

She doesn't have a chain-grab in PAL version, which helps me a lot I'd imagine

 

[Sinji]

anyone got any advice for ness vs. sheik? I got demolished by sheiks at my last tourney, mainly when it came to getting chaingrabbed and egdeguarded
Ideas?

watch out for Sheik's CC>ftilt>fair

grab the ledge and wait for her Up b animation to finish then waveland grab>backthrow. Or ledge hop dair if she is at a high%. Or ledge hop reverse bair.

Platform camp.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

This maybe a bit off-topic but how does everyone here feel switching between Melee Ness and PM Ness? He feels almost like a completely different character IMO, he's pretty high tier but I don't feel a single thing transitioning over and the release DJC is really awkward since I use X to jump and Y to D and hold them both down for my low aerials.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

With the way I DJC, PM's new method doesn't change my style at all.

Though I like Lucas better in PM.

 

[thesage]

What is the method for djc'ing in project m?

 

[Bones0]

If you attack while still holding down jump, you won't DJC and will instead do a rising aerial like in barlw. It lets you do all those uber gimps you can't normally do because you can't reach the opponent with a single jump and when you DJ into a move your PKT won't just hit them and end up getting you killed.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

More importantly, he can do a rising fair to recover.

 

[R:U:N]

I haven't played PM Ness yet... Are there any other big differences besides the DJC mechanics?
Also, can Lucas DJC?

 

[Sinji]

I used to use Ness in brawl as well so Ness's mobility is familiar to me. I like how he has his mobility in brawl and his tech skill from melee. You can DJC fair>grab>dthrow>2 uairs>bair> tech chase (I usually go for a dash attack in the tech chase if I can't reach them on time considering that his dash attack hitbox is long and then combo again with a uair. The only problem I have with him on PM is that his dtilt is slower. I like how they brought back his immediate dair from smash 64. It can create a good edge guarding.


Edit: Bones0, you probably downloaded the wrong Project M. If you downloaded Gecko, that's the wrong one. I did the same and got Ness DJC rising aerial. I deleted the Gecko one and got Homebrew, the one with 186 MB or something like that. Homebrew is the correct one to download. I'm guessing that the gecko one was a troll or something.

 

[Bones0]

I haven't even downloaded it... I just know that's how it works from previous alphas plus it says so on his character page.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

I used to use Ness in brawl as well so Ness's mobility is familiar to me. I like how he has his mobility in brawl and his tech skill from melee. You can DJC fair>grab>dthrow>2 uairs>bair> tech chase (I usually go for a dash attack in the tech chase if I can't reach them on time considering that his dash attack hitbox is long and then combo again with a uair. The only problem I have with him on PM is that his dtilt is slower. I like how they brought back his immediate dair from smash 64. It can create a good edge guarding.


Edit: Bones0, you probably downloaded the wrong Project M. If you downloaded Gecko, that's the wrong one. I did the same and got Ness DJC rising aerial. I deleted the Gecko one and got Homebrew, the one with 186 MB or something like that. Homebrew is the correct one to download. I'm guessing that the gecko one was a troll or something.

Personally I kind of like his Melee meaty auto-canceling dair better, the new one throws me off and it's kind of awkward looking but I guess the raw speed of the 64 one makes up for it.

BTW that is the right build, DJC is supposed to do that. Unless you're using Riivolution (which most people aren't but I recommend because of the Melee SFX) the homebrew method uses Gecko to run its codes. I think you're confusing Gecko with the Unhacked/Hacked method but all of them should work the same either way.

 

[odinNJ]

Since you land on your feet, DJCing would be different.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You land on your knees in PM now, get with the times

 

[Bones0]

Not during some hitboxes. DJCing during some moves might feel a little different.

 

[thesage]

They fixed it? Whaomg.

 

[Little England]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xRpPppnK8iM#t=156s

I wonder if Ness can do something like this with his fair. I'll test it later.

 

[thesage]

What were you trying to point out?

 

[Bones0]

He faired the turnip.