Meta General MU Help/Discussion

[Fenrir VII]

Well, Greward is a great player too... one of the best megamen. If it were anybody else, I'd just laugh it off, but I respect his opinions, so it just leaves me scratching my head.

Also red shirt, I didn't know that was you. lol. hi!

 

[CopShowGuy]

I still stand by the opinion that Sheik and CF are our only 2 truly negative matchups in the current metagame (yay for discussion that may become completely irrelevant in the next 4 days)

Other matchups that have potential of being negative include Rosa, Greninja, Diddy, Sonic, Olimar, Fox, G&W, Wario, Pit/D Pit, Tink, Lucario, Jiggly, Kirby, Pacman

I'd say Sheik is still pretty close to even. She combos us for days but has trouble killing. We also can have trouble killing but we aren't slouches in racking up damage either. No comment about C. Falcon. I've often thought he was a bad match for us and spoke about that earlier in the meta. I still don't face many good ones so I don't know much.

Rosalina is annoying but not negative. Sonic is pretty easy. Diddy is hard for everyone but we can pretty easily neutralize his banana shenanigans. I'm honestly more worried about Sheik that I am with Diddy but, still, getting grabbed at around 70-80% is bad and not always avoidable. Jigglypuff is pretty easy to keep out with Air Shooter and short/full hopped lemons. She also dies early.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I found the best way to beat Diddy is to not let him grab you. Seems easier said than done sometimes.

 

[Greward]

yay discussion and... respects :D
Well a -1 is a slight disadvantage, pretty close to even. This also means that it somewhat depends on ruleset.
For example I believe Wario is an easier matchup playing at 3 stocks than at 2 (just an example).

So about Diddy and Sonic... I believe we are Diddy's worst matchup (alongside Olimar) after the ditto. Maybe not but we def are no easy matchup for him. That's because we have hella good options against Diddy. Even though, the fact that diddy is super broken is real.
Sonic is another super good character we should shut down, but just like diddy he's overpowered atm. This means he gets more reward than he should out of his options and stuff like that, which helps him have better odds in this matchups than would if he was balanced.
Anyways I believe both matchups are evenish, although diddy is still hella hard and it's only close to even in our theoretycal minds where we have achieved perfect play (someday...).

Sheik I believe is close to unwinnable at highest level. This means Mr R, Nietono and the likes. He just like shuts us down. With customs things may change a bit, Beat is definitively an improve. At just high level and below it is winnable.

Greninja ****ty grab, worse dash attack than fox and approach options limited to aerials give him a harder time. And he can't punish long range as fox can. He has no good kill options in neutral game besides high risk side B. He really troubles against pellets imo. Fox doesn't as much.
Ok fox got on us -> nair is great and all (just like usual), lasers can punish our camp sometimes, enough to make us move around, if he can get a jab in at mid % and is proficient with the jab chains it's gonna hurt, dsmash can wreck rush recovery if he's good enough with the frame vulnerability, combos us for days, overall good mobility (he's kinda like poor man's falcon). Overall he's very hard to hit with anything but you either play it super duper defensive or try and get some early kill because of him being light. I believe its a slight advantage for Fox. His main problem is that he doesn't really have reliable kill moves unless he's super good at getting the dsmash on ledge frame vulnerability, and it can lead us to getting a good kill with rage effect.

Huhhh i don't really want to write too long about each char so i'll leave it at it.
Mostly i believe chars with long lasting hitboxes in aerials and great air speed are hard for MM. of course they gotta have more than that. Hard combos, hard to gimp, strong edgeguard game or fast frame data are also good.
So i think it's bad when they can approach us and combo hard us since we are heavy and fast faller (which requires a way to get through pellets) and they are very hard to get hit with a kill move (recoveries like ZSS' or Sheik are nearly ingimpable, superb frame data makes us not be able to punish stuff with ko moves, leaving only reads for kills). There are more factors but those two I believe are the most important.
Choco (zss) destroys japanese megamen btw. A single example isn't worth anything but just saying. I have played the matchup against Salem and Leon.
Anyways most -1 may be even and i'm just being pessimist. Or not. Mario and Pika are ones I'm edgy but I firmly think Yoshi and ZSS have the upper hand in the MU.

 

[Dr.Megaman]

Any help against spammy players?

 

[Sorichuudo]

Any help against spammy players?

If it is the FG-bike-happy type, metal blade knocks him off of it. If he does that wheelie to try and avoid it, a MB throwed from a short hop will still hit him, and if he makes the mistake of using the bike too far away to hit you but close enough that he can't jump out in time, utilt and watch him go flying.

Now if he is the more smart type of player, it gets a little tricky, Wario gives us a lot of trouble in the hands of a good player.

Search for a post by ForteX in here http://smashboards.com/threads/cons...hread-check-here.369339/page-10#post-19031279 , he gives some good advice on that.

 

[p1ay6ack]

any help at how to approach a good luigi player? here's the match up. we start at neutral, luigi short hops, lands, then shield, then empty short hop, and i use lemon 1-2 short hop, luigi fast falls, shields, and does a smash attack out of shield. im surprsied how fast he can throw an att out of shield....what's the best way to approach lugii? mb? lemons? danger wrap? ._. like this luigi knows their charachter and their frames and its hard

 

[Fenrir VII]

Lemons like your life depends on it. It stuffs everything other than jumping over, which you can punish with Sh lemon, fair, usmash, or uair. If you keep pew pewing, Luigi has an incredibly hard time ever getting close... Fsmash pokes are quite good in medium range as well

 

[p1ay6ack]

Lemons like your life depends on it. It stuffs everything other than jumping over, which you can punish with Sh lemon, fair, usmash, or uair. If you keep pew pewing, Luigi has an incredibly hard time ever getting close... Fsmash pokes are quite good in medium range as well

do you have any luck with leaf shield, or the other custom shields against luigi? i ask cuz grab is luigi's combo starter, and the ls, ps, and sb keep him out

 

[ScAtt77]

I still stand by the opinion that Sheik and CF are our only 2 truly negative matchups in the current metagame (yay for discussion that may become completely irrelevant in the next 4 days)

Other matchups that have potential of being negative include Rosa, Greninja, Diddy, Sonic, Olimar, Fox, G&W, Wario, Pit/D Pit, Tink, Lucario, Jiggly, Kirby, Pacman
All the ones in green, I believe are no worse than even/very slight disadvantage (55-45). The other ones, I just don't have much experience against, and I can see their tools against us. I also have no idea about the Miis... offhand it seems like we have tools against them, but I've never played a good one.

You know, it's pretty funny whenever I see you post about match-ups Fenrir; it's almost like you've seen my thoughts on every one of Mega Man's match-ups. I personally agree with the notion that Mega Man only has 2-3 bad match-ups (Those being Sheik, Falcon, and potentially Fox) at most. His neutral game is far too good imo to be overlooked by most characters.

 

[p1ay6ack]

welps, i think i figured out a good move against ZSS. you know how zss jumps alot in the air, and looks for ways to get in? you can counter her through leaf shield. if you put up leaf shield, then jump alot into zss's jump trajectory, and you hit her with petals,she'll go into a little hit stun and fall to the floor. the hit stun isn't good, but its enough to ground her, and watch her and see how you can get in. i went 2-0 against a zss using this strategy, and you got to also have fundamentals to keep your momentum strong.

i noticed as i kept jumping up with leaf shield,zss would stay grounded more. strange way to condition someone right? i could get in more grabs and set ups at this point.

idk how good it works with the other custom down b shields since i havent tried them

 

[Megamang]

How does megaman fare against Pikachu? If this discussion has already happened could someone link me? I didn't see an index on the OP.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

I have troubles beating Yoshi, Mario, Diddy and Robin any advice? I dont use lemos as much, I dont see where to include them in my game since theres ending lag after the 3

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

also I know how to beat falcon, it is extremely vulnerable to leafshield and you just keep edge guarding with leafshield until he falls into stage with falcon dive and then you punish

 

[ENKER]

Lemons are amazing at disrupting and spacing. During your last lemon, jump back! This jump back will mitigate the lemon's end lag. Thus, if you space right, you become difficult to punish!

Opponents get so annoyed when those little pellets stop their advancements, once they're annoyed they sometimes become overly aggressive and make mistakes. Use that to your advantage and punish them.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

What enker said. Never finish a string of 3 pellets while on the ground. If you do do a 3 pellet string make sure your last one is fired in the air so you aren't a sitting duck.

Helps with basically all matchups.

 

[Saltix]

How does megaman fare against Pikachu? If this discussion has already happened could someone link me? I didn't see an index on the OP.

Been playing a really good Pikachu player lately, and I'm starting to become convinced it is NOT in our favor.
Maybe not a heavy disadvantage but, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

 

[Sleek Media]

Been playing a really good Pikachu player lately, and I'm starting to become convinced it is NOT in our favor.
Maybe not a heavy disadvantage but, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

It's definitely not in our favor. We have NO APPROACH. Pikachu's advantage is at least 60:40.

This is one of those matchups where you have to fire up Leaf Shield and never turn it off. Pika's spamming sparks? LEAF SHIELD THROW. Pika's trying to run in for a grab? LEAF SHIELD. Pika's trying to quick attack his way in for a free combo? LEAF SHIELD AND REGULAR SHIELD. You absolutely must make approaching a living hell for him or you have no chance. If you can frustrate him, convert spacing mistakes in the grabs, bAirs, etc. If he decides to try and camp you, throw shields, caught metal blades, and crash bombs while maintaining a safe distance. Use leaf shield when recovering above the stage, and know when to air dodge into the ground and when to simply fast fall straight into an attack/grab.

 

[Sleek Media]

Snow's Fox terrifies me. I have no idea who to keep him out. He's more than fast enough to run up and shield or simply jump around pellets, and anything he manages to land starts a clean >=30% combo. Edge guarding him is difficult, and there's no room for error thanks to his uSmash. I saw previous posts which suggested using pellets to keep him out, but it definitely doesn't work. Has anyone fought a very high level Fox with any success?

 

[Megamang]

Snow's Fox terrifies me. I have no idea who to keep him out. He's more than fast enough to run up and shield or simply jump around pellets, and anything he manages to land starts a clean >=30% combo. Edge guarding him is difficult, and there's no room for error thanks to his uSmash. I saw previous posts which suggested using pellets to keep him out, but it definitely doesn't work. Has anyone fought a very high level Fox with any success?

Pellets cant keep him out forever, but they are invaluable for other reasons. You have to win neutral, convincingly, to win this MU. Keep the lemons flowing... when he gets in, watch how he got in. Then, use similar patterns of lemons, but watch him, and slam him with the counter to whatever he is doing when he thinks you are being repetitive. Even if they aren't a wall, the lemons are necessary to keep fox honest.

And while he is figuring out what is going on, and how he got punished the second time, he is forced to take action since you are better in neutral.

At kill percents, respect his dash-usmash and dash grabs, killing and setting up for kills respectively.

Its definitely a hard matchup; this works for me but I have yet to face a truly elite fox.

 

[ScAtt77]

Been playing a really good Pikachu player lately, and I'm starting to become convinced it is NOT in our favor.
Maybe not a heavy disadvantage but, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

Honestly, I'm inclined to disagree (Although, the only Pikachu that i've ever played in tourney is ESAM and it was 3rd game last stock last hit huehue). I feel as if Pikachu's usual shenanigans to gimp Mega don't generally work on him as long as you play your recovery out smartly. On top of that, the blue bomber's pellets/ nair are more than enough to stop Pikachu's general approach/ camp game ( Quick Attack/ T-jolts < Pellets).

 

[Fenrir VII]

^This.

Honestly, I'm inclined to disagree (Although, the only Pikachu that i've ever played in tourney is arguably the best Pikachu)

fix'd

 

[Drippy]

What enker said. Never finish a string of 3 pellets while on the ground. If you do do a 3 pellet string make sure your last one is fired in the air so you aren't a sitting duck.

Helps with basically all matchups.

Oh wow learn something new everyday. I used to hate using his grounded pellets cause of the end-lag, but now I gotta try this.

 

[Sleek Media]

Pellets cant keep him out forever, but they are invaluable for other reasons. You have to win neutral, convincingly, to win this MU. Keep the lemons flowing... when he gets in, watch how he got in. Then, use similar patterns of lemons, but watch him, and slam him with the counter to whatever he is doing when he thinks you are being repetitive. Even if they aren't a wall, the lemons are necessary to keep fox honest.

And while he is figuring out what is going on, and how he got punished the second time, he is forced to take action since you are better in neutral.

At kill percents, respect his dash-usmash and dash grabs, killing and setting up for kills respectively.

Its definitely a hard matchup; this works for me but I have yet to face a truly elite fox.

I explained that lemon walling Fox does not work. I'm talking about top regional Fox players, not FG.

 

[Locke 06]

Punish fox hard on shield. Gimp him. Lemons do well.

How do you edge guard ZSS when she goes low? Tether/flip jump/boost kick as options low baffles me. I'm in training mode set on run and I am surprised how difficult this is for me...

 

[Funkermonster]

Defenses against (only with Kong Cyclone, default is easy peasy), , , , and ? With the exception of Toon Link, I haven't actually fought very many of these guys as Mega Man and as such haven't really had any trouble with them yet, but I do get pestered by them when I play as one of my other characters and I worry about having similar problems even when playing Mega.

Also, would love advice against 's Quick Attack. I have little to no knowledge against him and I can't stand fighting him personally, especially because of Quick Attack. Basically my personal archnemsis of this game, though I'm sure he isn't broken and I just need to git gud.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I find with pikas using quick attack I find using short hopped Uair can pick him up and out of quick attack and it's fairly easy to trap him in it.

Dk with long cyclone is cray. I played a really good one on the ladder the other day and literally couldn't do anything to stop it.

Olimar is very manageable if you use skull barrier it reflects most of his attacks and generally messes with their head because they. Can't find a way in.

With link you have to really just avoid the bombs pellets shut down most of his other options.

Lucario can be killed fairly easy off the top so go for utlit/Usmash kills

 

[Sleek Media]

Punish fox hard on shield. Gimp him. Lemons do well.

How do you edge guard ZSS when she goes low? Tether/flip jump/boost kick as options low baffles me. I'm in training mode set on run and I am surprised how difficult this is for me...

The Fox I've had trouble with is Snow, and he doesn't really jump in with stuff you can shield grab. Fox has enough range to poke at our shield safely.

As for ZSS...good luck. She has one of the best recoveries in the game, and it's not possible to cover all her options. You can challenge the flip kick with bAir (requires a pretty big read), the tether with Leaf Shield, and her boost kick with a properly spaced hard knuckle. Sometimes you can mess her up with pellets and get a lucky gimp, but that's about all you can hope for. She's one of our harder matchups.

Also, would love advice against 's Quick Attack. I have little to no knowledge against him and I can't stand fighting him personally, especially because of Quick Attack. Basically my personal archnemsis of this game, though I'm sure he isn't broken and I just need to git gud.

You're probably gud, quick attack is broken. Luckily, Mega Man has one good way to deal with it - Leaf Shield. Just put a leaf shield up, hold your regular shield (QA will pierce the LS), let him eat the 2-4%, and if you have the slightest doubt about getting the shield grab, get out of there. Let him be the one going crazy trying to chase his opponent down. If pika starts spamming thunderjolt, just Leaf Shield some more and keep your space. This is a super un-fun matchup because LS camping is our only real option that doesn't require a big read.

 

[Jehtt]

The trick to DK is to respect him. As long as you play safely (DON'T CHALLENGE THE CYCLONE) you will be fine.

Shorthop metal blades can hit DK out of the startup/ending of his cyclone very nicely. Just make sure you have some distance.

As for Pikachu, lemons work good. Leafshield was already mentioned above. I haven't found u-air to be that useful, however... find a pikachu to practice with and try out this stuff. Friendlies are a good way to learn MUs.

 

[Locke 06]

The Fox I've had trouble with is Snow, and he doesn't really jump in with stuff you can shield grab. Fox has enough range to poke at our shield safely.

As for ZSS...good luck. She has one of the best recoveries in the game, and it's not possible to cover all her options. You can challenge the flip kick with bAir (requires a pretty big read), the tether with Leaf Shield, and her boost kick with a properly spaced hard knuckle. Sometimes you can mess her up with pellets and get a lucky gimp, but that's about all you can hope for. She's one of our harder matchups.

Leaf Shield actually sounds like a decent option to just cover space. Mostly it's the tether that I have issues with, since that's the quickest & longest range/least commitment recovery option for her and it at least gets something out of the situation. I don't think she's one of our harder matchups if you play it correctly / be mindful of her kill setups.

As for Fox... not sure what to tell you other than Fox's range is bad. Spacing NAirs or BAirs in front of you with his air mobility is really difficult and easy to mess with. Cross ups are quite common on jump ins, but you can usmash OoS if you're fast enough to punish. Spaced tilts aren't really safe either outside of ftilt (dtilt, I think, can be dash grabbed). What is he poking at your shield with? I've picked up Fox recently and he is probably my 3rd character behind Mega & DK and shield safety + poor reward on throws is one of Fox's weak points along with a lack of an offstage game.

 

[Sleek Media]

Leaf Shield actually sounds like a decent option to just cover space. Mostly it's the tether that I have issues with, since that's the quickest & longest range/least commitment recovery option for her and it at least gets something out of the situation. I don't think she's one of our harder matchups if you play it correctly / be mindful of her kill setups.

As for Fox... not sure what to tell you other than Fox's range is bad. Spacing NAirs or BAirs in front of you with his air mobility is really difficult and easy to mess with. Cross ups are quite common on jump ins, but you can usmash OoS if you're fast enough to punish. Spaced tilts aren't really safe either outside of ftilt (dtilt, I think, can be dash grabbed). What is he poking at your shield with? I've picked up Fox recently and he is probably my 3rd character behind Mega & DK and shield safety + poor reward on throws is one of Fox's weak points along with a lack of an offstage game.

I just can't deal with the pressure. All he has to do is empty hop threatening bAir and crossup nAir, waiting for an opportunity to either safely throw a spaced bAir, or empty fall into a grab. Once I take ANY hit, he can combo into uTilt, dash, etc for about 40%. Lemons do not beat his fast falling, reliably...if they do, he takes 2-4%. If they whiff I take ten times that. As soon as my damage is fairly high, he can double jab cancel into whatever finish he wants (infinite double jab cancel is also possible if he thinks he can keep the rhythm long enough at low%). He has two great recovery options, one of which he can use to land on stage without a punish. I don't see what we are supposed to do. He is simply so fast that the other player can wait to react and beat anything we throw. The only success I've had against top level Fox is when the Fox player makes an error and can't keep up with his own character's speed.

 

[Funkermonster]

I still stand by the opinion that Sheik and CF are our only 2 truly negative matchups in the current metagame (yay for discussion that may become completely irrelevant in the next 4 days)

Other matchups that have potential of being negative include Rosa, Greninja, Diddy, Sonic, Olimar, Fox, G&W, Wario, Pit/D Pit, Tink, Lucario, Jiggly, Kirby, Pacman
All the ones in green, I believe are no worse than even/very slight disadvantage (55-45). The other ones, I just don't have much experience against, and I can see their tools against us. I also have no idea about the Miis... offhand it seems like we have tools against them, but I've never played a good one.

A little late, but can you elaborate on why you think , , and could possibly be negative? Jigglypuff, I guess I can kind of see it from my experiences battling her (though it could also be just the opposing player outskilling me), but it doesn't hurt to be sure. But Kirby and G & W? I do respect Kirby's Utilt and Dair combos & his edgeguarding and I can see G&W's bucket and Judge being a bit of an annoyance, but other than that I fail to see what makes either of them tough cookies. After the patch, I see G&W in particular as being even less of a threat, nerfing his Utilt combos as his damage output was basically cut in half and somehow it can be escaped from now, and his damage output was already underwhelming enough from what I hear. A friend of mine who mains him says it was really important for him and he was really disappointed with it, he's an above average player in my region and pretty knowledgeable so I'd have to give some credibiity.

Can perfectly see the other ones though, no one else you mentioned raised my eyebrows.

 

[ChopperDave]

I just can't deal with the pressure. All he has to do is empty hop threatening bAir and crossup nAir, waiting for an opportunity to either safely throw a spaced bAir, or empty fall into a grab. Once I take ANY hit, he can combo into uTilt, dash, etc for about 40%. Lemons do not beat his fast falling, reliably...if they do, he takes 2-4%. If they whiff I take ten times that. As soon as my damage is fairly high, he can double jab cancel into whatever finish he wants (infinite double jab cancel is also possible if he thinks he can keep the rhythm long enough at low%). He has two great recovery options, one of which he can use to land on stage without a punish. I don't see what we are supposed to do. He is simply so fast that the other player can wait to react and beat anything we throw. The only success I've had against top level Fox is when the Fox player makes an error and can't keep up with his own character's speed.

Have you tried retreating uairs? I haven't played more than a few truly top level Foxes, but I'm familiar with the playstyle you're describing, and I've found uair a very good way to keep this sort of Fox player honest. Landing uair beats Fox's dash attack and grab, and IIRC it will often catch his foot when he tries to space bair because transcendant windbox > everything.

In my experience, landing uair really messes with Fox's playstyle in general because his aerial mobility is so poor and he relies on dash attack/grab as a key part of his pressuring and punishing kit. Take those tools away from Fox players and they'll often get pretty frustrated and start making mistakes.

If customs are on, Tornado Hold is really good in this matchup IMO. You can lay one of these down on the stage and Lemon Drop behind it and Fox can't do much about it. When edgeguarding you can drop a Tornado Hold in front of the ledge and it will basically force Fox to Illusion into it and take damage (and possibly a followup), or delay and use Fire Fox, which can be read and stage spiked, dair'd, or ledge trumped.

 

[Sleek Media]

Have you tried retreating uairs? I haven't played more than a few truly top level Foxes, but I'm familiar with the playstyle you're describing, and I've found uair a very good way to keep this sort of Fox player honest. Landing uair beats Fox's dash attack and grab, and IIRC it will often catch his foot when he tries to space bair because transcendant windbox > everything.

In my experience, landing uair really messes with Fox's playstyle in general because his aerial mobility is so poor and he relies on dash attack/grab as a key part of his pressuring and punishing kit. Take those tools away from Fox players and they'll often get pretty frustrated and start making mistakes.

If customs are on, Tornado Hold is really good in this matchup IMO. You can lay one of these down on the stage and Lemon Drop behind it and Fox can't do much about it. When edgeguarding you can drop a Tornado Hold in front of the ledge and it will basically force Fox to Illusion into it and take damage (and possibly a followup), or delay and use Fire Fox, which can be read and stage spiked, dair'd, or ledge trumped.

Do you know of any videos that demonstrate this? It's not clear how you could retreat with a uAIr and catch a Fox who is spacing you.

 

[Fenrir VII]

A little late, but can you elaborate on why you think , , and could possibly be negative?

I'm mostly going on heresay and limited experience here...

But also, I'm forming this theory that Mega has a bit of trouble covering the upper 45 area, especially against chars with multiple jumps. You can toss a metal blade up there, or SH uair, etc, but it's not that hard to get punished for doing much of anything. Jiggly and Kirby can both stay in that area and try to bait something or force you to shield and it gets hard to deal with.

Jiggly is better at maneuvering in this area, but Kirby is better at killing, basically... all of his smash attacks kill us crazy early, so the stakes are high in this scenario.

G&W's utilt change (was it ever officially confirmed?) still gives him dthrow > utilt > nair > stuff options that allow him to put 30-60% on us very quickly. He also can kill well. He renders crash bomb useless, and is impossible to edgeguard. So we're relying on when we can actually get kills, while he is waiting for us to do something he can override/punish with usmash to kill us. He also has pretty good maneuverability to apply pressure through zoning.

Not sure any of these are bad, but I think they all could be

 

[ChopperDave]

Do you know of any videos that demonstrate this? It's not clear how you could retreat with a uAIr and catch a Fox who is spacing you.

No videos, sorry.

I usually use rising fair (while jumping slightly backwards) to space and catch Fox if he gets overly greedy with his aerials, then land with a uair to cover against his ground approach options. That, or simply short hop backwards and fastfall into a landing uair.

This usually works out in our favor because if Fox ever gets caught in a landing uair it's an easy 30% damage for us, as his fall speed makes it easy to follow up with another uair or bair.

In my experience, if you can condition aggressive Fox players to respect the uair, they'll back off a bit and give you the breathing room to use your other moves more effectively.

 

[Locke 06]

Re fox:
http://smashboards.com/threads/zero...-d-k-donkey-kong.371407/page-15#post-18871113

I don't think spaced BAir is safe on shield. Since mega is short, it doesn't autocancel.

 

[Appledees]

Any help against Mario

next to Shiek I literally feel like this matchup feels so one sided

 

[Funkermonster]

Any help against Mario

next to Shiek I literally feel like this matchup feels so one sided

• His recovery sucks and goes a weak distance without his double jump, so its not a bad idea to run off and gimp him with Slash Claw/Flame Sword. I like to use Tornado Hold against him for this reason, dropping one down by the ledge and then hitting him with Slash Claw afterwards to push him further away. Putting pressure on him with Z-Dropped Metal Blades and Crash Bombs wouldn't hurt. Mario is able to wall jump on certain stages though and his Fair can meteor if you're not careful.
• Mario can combo Mega Man pretty long due to our weight and fall speed. But for a combo character, Mario's damage output is kind of weak, and sometimes you can out of or jump of his Utilt combos and escape.
• On top of having low damage, Mario's killing moveset is basically composed of Smash Attacks. Usmash and Dsmash are quick but have low power, and Fsmash is powerful but is slow and easy to punish unless he makes good reads with it against you. Mario
• His cape can reflect, and you gotta respect it a bit. Would avoid using Danger Wrap, Charge Shot, or a thrown Leaf Shield against him.
• This may be just me; but in a customs environment I like using Tornado Hold, Plant Barrier, andoccasionally Ice Slasher against him.

I haven't faced too many good Marios so far, but I don't find him nearly as threatening as Sheik.

 

[Drippy]

• His recovery sucks and goes a weak distance without his double jump, so its not a bad idea to run off and gimp him with Slash Claw/Flame Sword. I like to use Tornado Hold against him for this reason, dropping one down by the ledge and then hitting him with Slash Claw afterwards to push him further away. Putting pressure on him with Z-Dropped Metal Blades and Crash Bombs wouldn't hurt. Mario is able to wall jump on certain stages though and his Fair can meteor if you're not careful.
• Mario can combo Mega Man pretty long due to our weight and fall speed. But for a combo character, Mario's damage output is kind of weak, and sometimes you can out of or jump of his Utilt combos and escape.
• On top of having low damage, Mario's killing moveset is basically composed of Smash Attacks. Usmash and Dsmash are quick but have low power, and Fsmash is powerful but is slow and easy to punish unless he makes good reads with it against you. Mario
• His cape can reflect, and you gotta respect it a bit. Would avoid using Danger Wrap, Charge Shot, or a thrown Leaf Shield against him.
• This may be just me; but in a customs environment I like using Tornado Hold, Plant Barrier, andoccasionally Ice Slasher against him.

I haven't faced too many good Marios so far, but I don't find him nearly as threatening as Sheik.

Can you DI out of his up tilt combo, and if so, then what direction would I be holding out of? Also would this apply for any character with a up tilt combo / string or like Sheik's f-tilt combo?