Meta General MU Help/Discussion

[Drippy]

To sum up what you guys said from what I've read, Rush is a good option out but the problem is landing so it's usually best to just use your double jump (and sometimes air-dodge) to get away. Although 70% is a lot, we shouldn't feel to threaten anymore since they can't combo as well and we should just start playing as usual but more cautious cause we're now at percents where we can die. Pellets should be used in this match-up but not as much compared to other match-ups and we should be cautious while using them. Using Metal Blades and Z-Dropping a lot are crucial to winning this match-up on stage. Using a lot more u-airs and up smashes will help in this match-up as anti-air moves.

If you guys could correct me on some of the stuff or add some stuff I may have missed then that'd be nice. As I said earlier I need to desperately work on my gimping and I'll try to use more u-airs in this match-up as well. In terms of forward tilt cancelling out Fireballs, I feel that doesn't work if the Mario player jumps and does fireballs cause they arc over my pellets but I could be wrong and I'll test it again. Also I'm aware Metal Blades are useful in this match-up and to add onto what Red Shirt said, I think Luigi is definitely easier than Mario (but I haven't played high leveled Luigis so I could be wrong) but this Mario I played against had extremely good timing on reflecting every Metal Blade / F-Smash / etc. I found at that point that I should only be using these moves for punishing laggy moves or rolls but it seems I have to use MB a lot more, but how do I do that without Mario just reflecting it and getting free damage?

A lot of Mario players just literally rush me down and while they're charging towards me, they'll just reflect my projectiles or jump over my stuff and advance with Fireballs or an aerial and usually try to get a grab in. I'll just watch the matches in the video thread and see how you guys play it out.

 

[ravemaster47]

As I said, ftilt cancels out fire best on the ground. Not while mario is in the air.

 

[Drippy]

As I said, ftilt cancels out fire best on the ground. Not while mario is in the air.

I mean when the gravity pulls down the fire and it's not hopping on the ground, I found pellets sometimes don't remove them all. I could be wrong though, I'm just basing this off of my memory of when I was playing against a Mario yesterday but I could just be forgetful.

EDIT: Playing this match-up again today, it's definitely not as hard as I thought it was. I found out that not only can you shield up tilt at early percents, it seems when the Mario goes for down throw into u-air, you fall into the ground fast enough so you don't get hit. Not sure if the Mario player is just messing it up or not so I could be false. So far I have been having really good success, I still lost though cause I tried f-smashing, I didn't think the opponent would expect it since I didn't use it all game but I realized the start-up on the move is extremely slow so I need to keep in mind to use that and metal blade as a punish move

 

[ravemaster47]

I'll link you a video of what I do with my friend

 

[ravemaster47]

But yeah early percents you can block utilt. React quick or he will grab you again.

 

[Drippy]

Awesome thanks and yea playing the match-up, I found his combos aren't AS big as a deal anymore but they're still problematic.

 

[ravemaster47]

Cable guy ended up showing up late today. Didn't have time to record. I'll post it up tomorrow

 

[Drippy]

No problem, thanks for doing this for me

 

[ravemaster47]

No problem. Mario doesn't feel hard. But when you got someone who has you on download it's annoying.

 

[ravemaster47]

Have the videos uploading now. Thought I had more vs mario/luigi but b I guess they got wiped with the patch update a while back.

 

[Drippy]

I'll check them out when I get home cause I'm at school right now. I actually have a lot of videos I need to record / upload myself since I'm still struggling in some match-ups.

 

[ravemaster47]

Sounds good. My last video is almost done uploading. Work wifi ftw!

 

[Sleek Media]

Curious to see what you're up against.

 

[ravemaster47]

Friendlies: megaman (rave) vs. Mario(zerowing87): https://youtu.be/hleSy_dvAcA

For glory: megaman(rave) Vs. Luigi: https://youtu.be/VOQHfeRnhv0

 

[CopShowGuy]

I always like to watch stuff!

 

[ravemaster47]

Sorry about the quality. Only recorder I have is my phone. :/

 

[Drippy]

Friendlies: megaman (rave) vs. Mario(zerowing87): https://youtu.be/hleSy_dvAcA

For glory: megaman(rave) Vs. Luigi: https://youtu.be/VOQHfeRnhv0

It's fine, thank you for this!

 

[ravemaster47]

Yup. I will remember to save more next time I play my friends. For glory is proving to be a falcon fest. @.@

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

That is a really bad luigi player. I'll post a good match vs luigi when I get the chance. It will show you how a grab leads to 50% and how you can keep him away with lemons.

 

[ravemaster47]

Oh I agree. It was just to show how lemons work on fireballs. I know a luigi way better than that.

 

[ravemaster47]

I really was underestimating lemons in the luigi matchup. They are your main way of poking in damage. He really has a tough time getting through the wall. Out Of Like 10 Games With My Friend I Won Like 6 or 7.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

They really make this a lopsided matchup. You can basically lemon/MB him to a high percent then kill him fairly easily. Also once you get a percent lead it is not hard to timeout a luigi.

If he realizes that you are trying to time out it makes them do stupid things to try and get in on you and you can usually get even more damage on him.

Boring way to play but gets you the win for sur.

 

[ravemaster47]

I.do that in for glory. But seriously, getting grabbed by any mario bros will hurt. But our spacing is better. And we can poke up more damage in the long run.

 

[Drippy]

Playing the Mario match-up some more, I think I got a solid handle on it but I still need to work on it some more which is primarily finding better opportunities for punishing with f-smash, learning how to play when the opponent has a percent lead (applies for any match-up really), using Metal Blades more wisely, and just more pellets in general. I found that it's nearly impossible for him to d-throw combo me since I got used to match-up but I've yet seen a Mario do like a up throw to d-air combo (not sure if it works on MM) or anything spectacular for that manner. Still need some work on it though cause playing against this Mario who realized he couldn't combo me as well, he just went for D-Throw -> Up B a lot, I think I still need to work on my spot dodge timing.

@ ravemaster47
I also finally got around to watching your Mario match and yea a few things I caught was just jumping over the Fireballs / Powershielding them more as I even noticed in the video that sometimes the pellets didn't always negate the Fireballs as it arc-ed over them. A few things I've noticed as well that I kind of found out on my own by playing the match-up is avoiding to use F-Smash to much other for a punish (which you did to punish a roll IIRC), recovering low cause his Down B can gimp, up-smashes to punish him in the air, and just a lot of pellets. I also like your patience for the most part but towards the end on the second stock I could tell you really wanted that kill and you down-smashed consecutively like four times. However I definitely think that your friend could've played it a lot better, a lot of missed punished from him and I think there was that moment on the first stock he could've Side B F-Smash instead of shielding. Mega Man's attacks have start-up and playing against this Mario main, he'd always look out for that little animation (and in general it's pretty slow) and just used his reflector a lot more in general.

 

[ravemaster47]

This video is much older than it looks. In fact, it was before my first smash 4 tournament. My gameplay is much different now than then. But I will look into those plays a bit more now that you've pointed them out.

 

[Drippy]

This video is much older than it looks. In fact, it was before my first smash 4 tournament. My gameplay is much different now than then. But I will look into those plays a bit more now that you've pointed them out.

Ahh alright that makes sense than haha. I also need to upload some clips of my own but I've been to lazy to record them. ;3;

 

[TriTails]

IMO as a Luigi main, Luigi vs Mega is 3:7 in the robot's favor.

Although. I'm curious. What do YOU guys think of the plumber? Is it about as pathetic or even worse than D3 vs Mega? Or does Luigi do better in the MU than I thought?

Though, Lemons alone is hell.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

D3 does better I think.

With customs luigi has a much easier time getting in. The bouncing fireballs allow him to give us hell because they are much harder to cancel out with lemons.

With customs it's more like 6-4 in megas favor. Without its around 7-3 or 8-2

 

[p1ay6ack]

can i just clear up this by saying that you got to play very defensive against good luigi players. it is in megaman's favor, only if megaman plays the game defensive, cuz pellets keep him out, and you just run away.

ive faced really good luigi players, and the ones that give me hell are the ones that give me alot of noncommital pressure. and try to rush me down. once luigi gets in, and gets megaman in the air, luigi can do some nasty stuff if megaman is at the right perecent to get juggled

 

[Sleek Media]

Boss' Luigi demolishes my Mega, and I run a pretty damn good Mega. It's nowhere near our favor. Don't speculate on pocket Luigis.

 

[ravemaster47]

Most marios actually play the same. I've encountered several different luigi approaches, but the one my friend plays is the most consistent at racking up damage on me .

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Tell boss that I challenge him to a dual!!!

Best of 5 he uses luigi I only use mega man. No customs.

I consider myself a decent mega man and I hear he is pretty good. We can post the matches after

 

[TriTails]

Boss' Luigi demolishes my Mega, and I run a pretty damn good Mega. It's nowhere near our favor. Don't speculate on pocket Luigis.

Wat. Us Luigis think this MU is solidly 3:7 (Not 2:8 IMO. Luigi can still do some disgusting stuffs once he gets in. I don't think D3 can).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but.

- Luigi can take off Mega's double jump to gimp him (Lagless F-air and D-air baby!)
- Once he gets in. Mega is a big fat combo fodder. With bad disadvantaged state (Against Luigi at least. Your slow attacks combined with your weight and fallspeed make it all), you can get brutal dents if you don't DI them right.
- Fireballs stop MB and CB
- AT LEAST Luigi is faster than D3 in the air
- Luigi has fast rolls. I think if timed right, he can roll through lemons and punish you for the end lag

I THINK. Not too sure because my experience reeks of FG, but theorycrafting-wise, that's what I got.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Usually when luigi tries to roll behind it is very obvious and we can jump before the endlag of our lemons. If you can find a luigi to play against me I would like that to show just how well pellets shut down luigi.

And yes if luigi gets in he does serious damage because of our high weight.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Wat. Us Luigis think this MU is solidly 3:7 (Not 2:8 IMO. Luigi can still do some disgusting stuffs once he gets in. I don't think D3 can).


I THINK. Not too sure because my experience reeks of FG, but theorycrafting-wise, that's what I got.

I guess that's what SleekMedia means, he faces a high level Luigi player a lot and from his experience keeping Luigi out is not as easy as everyone makes it sound. I rather not opine on this since while my friend has a pretty decent Luigi, that's about it: decent.
He doesn't main him or anything, so of course i win more against his Luigi.

I've seen a lot of Boss matches on vgbootcamp, so i know where Sleek is coming from, to say that he is good is an understatement.

My point is, i think we really need more matches of MM vs the Green Mario to say for sure who has a favorable MU here.

 

[TriTails]

If you jump, you'll get U-smashed, U-tilt, U-aired, or Cyclone'd. Being above Luigi is bad.

A Luigi to play? Not too sure. I myself play only on 3DS and isn't very good at all (And my wifi sometimes sucks). Though, you can go to this thread to seek out some Luigi mains.

But as of right now. I believe Mega has the advantage 6-4 or higher. I think it's 7:3, but I guess we'll see later...

 

[Fenrir VII]

If Luigi is beating you, he's a better player.. Period.

Weegee is at a huge disadvantage in the matchup

 

[Sleek Media]

^ LOL

Guys, this isn't rocket science. If Luigi decides to just walk up and shield pellets, what are your options? Pellets are VERY negative on shield, so you either give up stage control or get close and risk a grab (against someone like Boss it's more of an assurance than a risk). Eventually you run out of places to run, and you have to make a close range play. Problem is, you need win three or four of those to match what Luigi does when he wins one. Good luck with that.

I don't care how many of you can beat your little brother's Luigi or whatever. I second Rosalina, who has a REAL favorable matchup with Luigi. The difference is night and day. Instead of getting 2 stocked while Boss styles, I'm ahead the whole game and Boss is fighting for his life. Luma walls Luigi. Pellets do not. Rosalina's neutral can catch Luigi and kick him out. Mega Man's cannot.

Is it possible to win? Sure. I've come close to beating him with Mega Man, and I have room for improvement. That's said, he had to make many mistakes for me to get that far. When he's on, forget it. It's probably 30:70...maybe worse.

 

[Yatterman300]

Does Luigi get pushed back by Crash Bomber when he sheilds it? I'd figure that'd be essential in Mega/Luigi.
I personally think this MU is in Megas favor. Luigi has a hard time catching you, and pellets stop fireballs. It's also pretty safe to up tilt Luigi's sheild because it pushes him SUPER far back.

 

[Locke 06]

Honestly, if smart shielding is beating your pellet game, that means you'll lose against any character against a good opponent and feel like you're at a character disadvantage.