Meta General MU Help/Discussion

[Sneak Sneaks]

I wouldn't suggeat trying to down air Luigi cyclone because only if u hit the head it will gimp but anywhere else he will destroy it and you are in risk of getting gimp because of the Luigi Cyclone

 

[TriTails]

You better off gimping the Missile. Unless he got semi-spike'd he is most likely not even gonna need Cyclone (Dbl jump + SJP baby!). But then again, you can stage spike his SJP.

 

[HalcyonDays]

Hey guys, question.

What's the best way to prevent Ness from making it back to the stage/ledge? His airdodge is kind of really really good and spammable.

Even when I bait it out, his vulnerability window is so short, and to add to that, he has that weird double-jump.

 

[p1ay6ack]

Hey guys, question.

What's the best way to prevent Ness from making it back to the stage/ledge? His airdodge is kind of really really good and spammable.

Even when I bait it out, his vulnerability window is so short, and to add to that, he has that weird double-jump.

usually leaf shield footstool, and diagnal metal blade should do the trick. diagnoal metal blade forces an air dodge or ness to fast fall. this leads you to an opporunity to bair

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

and what can we do to Ness PK fire Spam?

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Skull barrier of using customs.

Without customs you basically have to stay mobile so you don't get hit by them keep jumping around and also MB outranges PK Fire so just sit back and do MB and crash bomb.

Basically all we can do is not get hit by it. Either jump dodge or shield.

 

[TriTails]

Okay. So I tried testing Luigi's shield against Mega's lemons yesterday.

It does seem that shield drop lag (7 frames) are indeed replaced by shieldstun (In lemons' case, 1 frame). Not sure, but it seems I can act out earlier than when I do my usual shield drop when I drop my shield right after the last pellet hit me.

That, or I'm dumb enough to not be able to notice the differences between 1 frame or 7 frames.

 

[ravemaster47]

Pk fire spam is easy to get around. Just simply don't approach. I tend to spam lemons and razor/CB. Leaf shield on occasions.

 

[FP-Takyon]

You definitely want to try to keep Ness at midrange. A big mistake I see a lot of Ness players do is let the crash bomb hit them, then down b to absorb the explosion. this leaves them open for a quick fair, mb, slide, etc. if you catch em before the explosion, you'll even guarantee the blast will hit them.

Sheik is my worst matchup, and ROB is a close second. With ROB, it's a good thing to note that the lasers can be crouched under, even at full charge (at least the last time I fought a rob this worked), but overall, I have trouble dealing with the gyro. he's hard to get in on, and not very easy to harrass at long range either, considering his side b.

 

[ravemaster47]

Sheik I'd definitely a hard matchup that requires punishes to win. But we can gimp her pretty well off stage. Most shiek I play recover low, making bair a perfect kill tool when timed correctly. Rob is one character that I just can't seem to beat no matter who 8iam.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Rob isn't so bad once you get used to it. Make sure you just try and not get hit by the lasers and top. If you stay away from him that is all he will throw so you know what to look for and avoid. When he comes in he will be going for the hoo ha so look for that. I find pellets at mid range do well to keep him out and watch out for the lasers.

When edge guarding sheik you really have to watch and not get hit by her up B it has some serious kill power.

Sheik is a very tough one with how quick she is. Really watch out for the bouncing fish.

 

[ravemaster47]

Yeah. Takes some strict timing on shiek, but it's definitely not terrible. Bouncing fish can be pretty safe for them too.

 

[Drippy]

If I can continue the Ness topic since he's one of my hardest MUs personally as a player, how do you guys SDI? PK Fire -> Grab -> Pummel -> D-Throw -> Aerials does such a insane amount of damage early on and be being a trash player still, I suck at perfect shielding and teaching, or they just punish me for using a laggy move or catch me off-guard with a aerial Side B. In addition what do we do against Ness's aerials? Usually characters who like to approach from the air like Marth or Mario, I'll shield their aerial and punish with up-smash but with Ness I can't seem to do that cause of his mobility so he just applies constant pressure on me with that. Of course if I was better at this game, this match-up would be a lot easier for me and that's the same for a lot of match-ups but I suck at gimping / perfect shielding / teching / etc. and I'm still working on it.

I'd also like to talk about the Samus and Game & Watch match-ups if you guys don't mind since there's not many people who play those characters. I recently lost to a Silver I Samus on SmashLadder and I mean the guy was good but I felt it was more of my inability to perfect shield, I would fail to perfect shield missiles / Neutral B and that put a lot of shield damage on me and made me scared to approach. Additionally I knew pellets > missiles but I respected that Neutral B so much that I was scared she'd just throw a random one out while I was in the lag of pellets (though I suppose I could have just jumped over it). I felt this match-up was just me being a bad player but how do you guys feel about it? From what I know, her kill options aren't that amazing and she seems like a easily gimped character, and her aerials aren't particularly that great either but I have seen Samus kill with F-Air or juggling me hard with U-Airs before. Also kind of a general question but how should I learn how to play around characters with a move like Samus's Neutral B, like Mewtwo's Neutral B or Lucario's Neutral B? Those are moves I feel that I respect way to much cause of how much damage it does either to me or my shield and even when it's not fully charged it can do a pretty good amount of damage.

Game & Watch was a character I only lost to cause of his off-stage game, every Game & Watch I played went for the off-screen kill or gimp, or just stage spiked me with Up B or B-Air. In general how do I tech multi-hit moves? I'm generally never ready to tech it because I'm not sure when I should tech it.

 

[ravemaster47]

Metal Blade will go under missiles and give you plenty of time to shield if spaced at max range. Homing missiles are a bit tricky. I'm unsure if leaf shield will go through full charge B.ive never challenged it. But it does go through missiles.

Lemon pressure is key to beating samus. Just watch the neutral b charge.

As for gdubz, he'll likely approach with a fair, or bair. Bair can be tricky since it's multiple hit box, just hold the shield til they land tyen punish. Teching is something that depends on the move. And requires the right timing.

 

[Drippy]

Metal Blade will go under missiles and give you plenty of time to shield if spaced at max range. Homing missiles are a bit tricky. I'm unsure if leaf shield will go through full charge B.ive never challenged it. But it does go through missiles.

Lemon pressure is key to beating samus. Just watch the neutral b charge.

As for gdubz, he'll likely approach with a fair, or bair. Bair can be tricky since it's multiple hit box, just hold the shield til they land tyen punish. Teching is something that depends on the move. And requires the right timing.

I don't think Leaf Shield will, I guess in this match-up I just need to work on perfect shielding.

Also I don't really have a problem with G&W on stage, but as I said off-stage. I'm not really sure when to tech the B-Air cause it's multi-hit and general not sure how I should avoid him off-stage because that's usually where all Game & Watch players get their kills off of me.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

Dont challenge him off-stage, just keep safe with on stage spam

 

[Drippy]

Dont challenge him off-stage, just keep safe with on stage spam

So in this match-up I should never go off-stage? Thinking about it, I actually think I lost a set because I went off-stage and he Up B stage spiked me =/

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

So in this match-up I should never go off-stage? Thinking about it, I actually think I lost a set because I went off-stage and he Up B stage spiked me =/

Thing is, G&W is pretty hard to gimp because his Up B or his Down Air, you could try getting him with a MB but his aerials must be respected, Kind off what happens with Luigi, it is very risky and most of the time not as rewarding

 

[Drippy]

Thing is, G&W is pretty hard to gimp because his Up B or his Down Air, you could try getting him with a MB but his aerials must be respected, Kind off what happens with Luigi, it is very risky and most of the time not as rewarding

Hmm alright, well I suppose he is mega light for a reason. Up Tilt kills extremely early but I'm just so reliant on B-Air for kills as well. Maybe I just need to work on ledge trumping?

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

Hmm alright, well I suppose he is mega light for a reason. Up Tilt kills extremely early but I'm just so reliant on B-Air for kills as well. Maybe I just need to work on ledge trumping?

Hmm alright, well I suppose he is mega light for a reason. Up Tilt kills extremely early but I'm just so reliant on B-Air for kills as well. Maybe I just need to work on ledge trumping?

Well, if ledgw trumping means grabbing the ledge after ur opponent grab it making your opponent release the ledge a d the you follow with a back air then yes, also u may try punishing him on the ledge with down tilt or wait until he land the stage and punish with mb, for killing G&W Ill suggest saving your Bthrow for the late hundreds

 

[Drippy]

Well, if ledgw trumping means grabbing the ledge after ur opponent grab it making your opponent release the ledge a d the you follow with a back air then yes, also u may try punishing him on the ledge with down tilt or wait until he land the stage and punish with mb, for killing G&W Ill suggest saving your Bthrow for the late hundreds

Yup that's basically what ledge trumping is and alright, I always forget Mega Man has a kill throw cause it kills at such high percents. :I

 

[glenn]

I recently lost to a Silver I Samus on SmashLadder and I mean the guy was good but I felt it was more of my inability to perfect shield, I would fail to perfect shield missiles / Neutral B and that put a lot of shield damage on me and made me scared to approach. Additionally I knew pellets > missiles but I respected that Neutral B so much that I was scared she'd just throw a random one out while I was in the lag of pellets (though I suppose I could have just jumped over it). I felt this match-up was just me being a bad player but how do you guys feel about it? From what I know, her kill options aren't that amazing and she seems like a easily gimped character, and her aerials aren't particularly that great either but I have seen Samus kill with F-Air or juggling me hard with U-Airs before. Also kind of a general question but how should I learn how to play around characters with a move like Samus's Neutral B, like Mewtwo's Neutral B or Lucario's Neutral B? Those are moves I feel that I respect way to much cause of how much damage it does either to me or my shield and even when it's not fully charged it can do a pretty good amount of damage.

Fully charged nuetral-b is, in my opinion, better as a psychological tool for Samus. It causes you to change how you play, and keep your distance, but winning the Samus matchup is all about staying just inside pellet range and annoying the hell out of them. Samus has no good response to pellets at max distance. It stuffs missiles and uncharged neutral-b. She has to try approaching or retreating. You'll get them cornered if you keep the pressure up, and at that point they'll either roll or jump over you. Both are very bad options as Samus has very slow roll and air speed. Roll can be punished with u-tilt and d-smash and jump can be covered with short hop u-airs for days. When Samus gets hit offstage and doesn't tether d-air spikes work well. If she tethers and drops low, run off b-air can stage spike her.

 

[ravemaster47]

I find bair works if you over shoot the location g&w will recover from, then double jump back while using Bair. I may actually have a video of me doing that. Also a well timed dair works if you space it right

 

[Drippy]

Fully charged nuetral-b is, in my opinion, better as a psychological tool for Samus. It causes you to change how you play, and keep your distance, but winning the Samus matchup is all about staying just inside pellet range and annoying the hell out of them. Samus has no good response to pellets at max distance. It stuffs missiles and uncharged neutral-b. She has to try approaching or retreating. You'll get them cornered if you keep the pressure up, and at that point they'll either roll or jump over you. Both are very bad options as Samus has very slow roll and air speed. Roll can be punished with u-tilt and d-smash and jump can be covered with short hop u-airs for days. When Samus gets hit offstage and doesn't tether d-air spikes work well. If she tethers and drops low, run off b-air can stage spike her.

Thanks for the reply! By the way you described it, definitely seems like a much easier match-up now and I really do need to try all of this next time. Though yea I felt I really lost just because of the intimidation factor of her Neutral B, she'd poke me down with missiles and put a lot of my pressure on my shield and that Neutral B scared the crap out of me.

I find bair works if you over shoot the location g&w will recover from, then double jump back while using Bair. I may actually have a video of me doing that. Also a well timed dair works if you space it right

Hmm alright I'll try that, and yea if you can get a video that'd be pretty awesome.

 

[ravemaster47]

I checked, I didn't have any, but the next one i get I'll record.

 

[Drippy]

I checked, I didn't have any, but the next one i get I'll record.

Alright, thanks mate :^)

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I've been having tons of trouble against sonic, I feel like no matter what i do i either get hit or grabbed if i shield. any tips?

 

[ravemaster47]

I use a lot of pellets in that fight. I stuck to the sides a lot, seeing as he only options are a dash attack, grab or homing attack, I can easily roll away and punish. Razor and CB will hit sonic in his spin dash animations so using a CB on its charge should stop his approach to some extent. If sonic approaches from the air, uair and usmash work really good here. I've seen a lot of sonics use spin dash and when they miss or we shield it, they use homing attack, its perfect usmash damage and at high percents a KO.

 

[Nu~]

Difficult matchup IMO. Hard to wall him out with pellets considering he can rush through your end lag. A good sonic shouldn't be approaching a mega man with spin dash. He should be shielding the pellets and then running in to punish you as you try to jump away.

 

[ravemaster47]

I definitely think it's a hard matchup. You're on the run most of the fight, and just about every spacing tool we have isn't exactly safe since as said, he can close that gap quickly. Hardest thing for me in that fight is dodging an air born spring, and trying to figure out if it's a dash attack, grab, or jump canceled usmash coming from the blue blur.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Like the others said, Sonic can be tricky since he can abuse Mega Man's endlag very badly (which is why I believe fast charcters are hard to deal with). Leaf Shield is a life saver in this MU, since he can't grab when it is on and it an stuff his attacks if used as a projectile (he can still shield it tho :-/ )
I cannot stress it enough : use Leaf Shield as much as possible, even if it means having to use Rush while on the ground to fire it as safely as possible. I wonder if Ice Slasher could possibly be a good option here snce it has a hitbox and can freeze opponents...

 

[Mr.Metal]

I know its only day 2 but after playing against Roy for a while it definitely feels like he can give Mega man some serious trouble out of all the 3 new characters. He can avoid pellets pretty well with his speed and mobility and most of his aerials can slash right through them, not only that but you cant grab him out of a confirmed metal blade hit due to him landing way to quickly after it connects. I got punished a bit for trying to grab him after metal blade, he would just F-smash me or F-tilt me to push me away or just straight up kill me. He can also edgeguard us hard, getting back onto the stage against Roy is a nightmare, leaf shield also seems useless due to his sword just straight up beating it.

I don't know if its just me but Roy feels like a pain in the ass for Mega man as of now. Then again it may just be my inexperience against him.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

I know its only day 2 but after playing against Roy for a while it definitely feels like he can give Mega man some serious trouble out of all the 3 new characters. He can avoid pellets pretty well with his speed and mobility and most of his aerials can slash right through them, not only that but you cant grab him out of a confirmed metal blade hit due to him landing way to quickly after it connects. I got punished a bit for trying to grab him after metal blade, he would just F-smash me or F-tilt me to push me away or just straight up kill me. He can also edgeguard us hard, getting back onto the stage against Roy is a nightmare, leaf shield also seems useless due to his sword just straight up beating it.

I don't know if its just me but Roy feels like a pain in the *** for Mega man as of now. Then again it may just be my inexperience against him.

Short question : is our boy still a Marth clone or not ?

 

[FP-Takyon]

Short question : is our boy still a Marth clone or not ?

he's still heavily based on marth, but he's got some decloned moves. his animations are almost all different, but his equivalent moves generally have a different utility than marth's

 

[Mr.Metal]

Short question : is our boy still a Marth clone or not ?

He doesn't feel like a Marth clone at all despite having a similar moveset IMO, he feels heavier and is a fastfaller, his moves also feel way more powerful, its easier to get sweetspoted tilts and smashes with Roy then it is with Marths tipper, he also is slightly faster than Marth. Although his Moveset is similar to Marths it definetly feels unique in its own way.

After playing as and against Roy for a while It feels like although Roy does have a similar moveset to Marths and Female Marth, he is just way better in almost everyway and form.

Which is as I said a problem for Megaman, It feels like Megaman loses this MU IMO

 

[HalcyonDays]

Short question : is our boy still a Marth clone or not ?

Marth is now an Our Boy clone.

But really, Roy's looking like the best FE character in the game, if not the outright best sword fighter in the game.

 

[ravemaster47]

Roy has unusually fast ending lag on almost all his moves.we have to read him very hard to get enough damage in. I feel like CB is really good in this matchup as it just sticks to him giving us a chance to regain control of the stage.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I think roy is harder than marrth because he is quite a bit faster. However I don't think he poses much of a problem for us. Actually none of the new fighters do too much.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I think roy is harder than marrth because he is quite a bit faster. However I don't think he poses much of a problem for us. Actually none of the new fighters do too much.

I am in no way a great Mega Man player, but I have been knocking some Ryu's around in For Glory. Players I've fought are generally easy to zone out and tossing out leaf sheild's when Ryu's attempt to hadouken spam is pretty fun.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

Hey how do you beat Pacman? His Bonus Fruits just beat Pellets and FSmash and he can easily shield when we throw a projectile