General ICs Q&A Thread

[DeLux]

I've had a capture card for a looooong time, but again, still running into that issue of someone knowing how to do all of them lol

 

[dettadeus]

You could just assign a bunch of people to master certain ones so we don't need one person to know all of them.

Or give me 3-4 weeks and some good tips on the more complicated ones.

The ones I know I've done before are:
Buffer Desync, Blond Roll, Dashdance Desync, Backdash Smash Desync, D-Tilt Desync, Grab Desync (obvs), A-Hit Desync, Reverse Initial Dash Desync, Ledge Desync, Pivot Desync, Run and Roll Desync, Starting Desync, Squall Desync, Tipper Desync, Turnaround Desync, Trip Desync (obvs), Dash Delay Desync, Hyphen Smash Desync, Dashbounce Desync, Respawn Desync, and Shield Desync.
Referencing the Guide to Desynching.

 

[Roller]

o





















L

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Damn I really only know how to do 3 desyncs 0_0. Wish I could do all of those.



Also I have a question. About Shield DI.


One big problem I have is getting the grab like every freaking ICs main (its because I suck I know this already). But not too long ago I came across a video about Shield DI which lets u move closer to the opponent when they attack you. Is shield di important for an ICs main? (I'm pretty sure its important for everyone). Cause Several times i've noticed that even though someone hits my shield and I go for a shield grab it misses because its not with in range (I'm talking as if the attack was done horizontally and not with in air cause shield di will not help u get the grab on air attackers that are too high). But if u shield di the attack and then grab will it be helpful?


I find this hard to do because:

1. I use the R button to shield making it difficult for me to use the C-stick to shield DI.

2. By the time u finish sheild DIng ur opponenet can make another input before u can grab them (not to sure if this is correct or if I'm doing it wrong) (remember I suck/******** at this game so don't have high expectations from my knowledge of this game or for that matter my logic).

 

[Rubberbandman]

You're saying shield SDI, not shield DI. Shield DI is just tilting your shield toward/away from your opponent.

You need to check for frame data mathematics to know whether or not your opponent can complete another action before you. And for the most part they can't, since most moves are negative on block.

 

[Aefice]

bthrow - dthrow vs bthrow - fthrow.

is it just preference or are there advantages of each?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Fthrow has the same timing for every character and is easier to do on platforms.

 

[Roller]

idk about the whole "easier to do on platforms" thing... I mean. You should ideally be buffering either way. in which case platforms aren't an issue at all. It's really preference based. I use b-d on some characters, and b-f on others. Find which is easiest for you to do on each character.

That all being said. If you are learning for the first time. Learn the F->B cg. Not B->F or B->D. It is better.

 

[Sylarius]

In order to properly answer this question, let's first deconstruct the components to each CG:

In the Bthrow > Dthrow CG, you have the following elements:

1. Popo Back Throw > Nana Regrab : The issue with this element of the CG is two fold. First, the bthrow has variable timing. This variable timing from character to character is compounded by difficulty because the inputs to throw with Popo and grab with Nana are too close together to reliably visual cue. At the same time, the issues with the sync mechanics creates directional issues when attempting to soft turn. This is reflected when you see Nana spinning in weird directions if you attempt to soft turn the CG in a non-buffered manner. If done out of a standard hard turn CG, Nana could trip. If done at an improper timing, Nana could possibly dash grab.

2. Nana Dthrow > Popo Regrab: There are two issues in this part of the CG. First, because of the cool down buffer mechanics, you could successfully regrab while accidentally buffering a Nana grab out of the cooldown of Dthrow. This is circumvented by shield buffering, but shield buffering then leaves you open to things such as accidentally inputting a spot dodge or roll because Nana acts on a cue timeline that isn't in real time. At the same time, you have to input down before walking forward to adjust spacing for the regrab. In some cases, most notably in the light characters, this causes a problem in spacing because the character will go through crouch and then proceed to walk forward.


Now let's deconstruct this newer CG combination:

1. Popo Fthrow > Nana Regrab: There is a constant timing for each character, so it can be done reliably on visual cue AND muscle memory. The only draw back is that spacing/timing is tighter than the B>D CG

2. Nana Bthrow > Popo buffered turnaround regrab: This creates a situation where the variable timing of the CG can be done purely on visual cue instead of trying to feel out the CG as per a Popo Bthrow. It is also a tripless turnaround. This also does not require shield buffering.


Both are good CGs. One however is tripless and can be done almost entirely off visual cue while the other cannot say the same.

10 Character requirement.

 

[Aefice]

played against mk today.

whats best options to deal with nado at head height?

can you PSC grab it? pivot grab it?

 

[DeLux]

Use a platform and mix up off of it by zoning

 

[-LzR-]

I can't cg Diddy at all. I don't get it. Either his fthrow timing is insane or my spacing is off. Am I supposed to be near or far when fthrowing Diddy? Should I even use fthrow at all? Would Bthrow to Dthrow be a better choice?

 

[DeLux]

I use Fthrow > Bthrow on Diddy

Try walking out further than other characters on the Fthrow. The Bthrow spacing is pretty lenient.

 

[-LzR-]

Have you tested on frame advance if Diddys fthrow timing is stricter than other characters or do I just not walk far enough? Being able to cg Diddy would be so important for the Finnish metagame

 

[DeLux]

It's not stricter than other characters iirc

You might be having timing issues since fthrow is normally a 3 frame window to work with anyways.

 

[-LzR-]

Nah I can fthrow other characters except Snakes and EB kids just fine. It must be my spacing. I'll try to do it later today.

 

[DeLux]

If I decide to pick up ICs again, I'll look into it.

For now though, I'm just coasting on previous knowledge >_>

 

[-LzR-]

Stop not playng IC and be awesome instead.

 

[Aefice]

what is the most effecient way to cg bowser and dk as you can't hobble them.

 

[-LzR-]

Those are the 2 easiest characters to hobble so what you are saying is wrong. Anyways, hobbling sucks.
Simply fthrow -> bthrow is the way to go. You shouldn't mess it up much as the fthrow is easy and bthrow has an easy visual cue.

 

[TheSaintKai]

Those are the 2 easiest characters to hobble so what you are saying is wrong. Anyways, hobbling sucks.
Simply fthrow -> bthrow is the way to go. You shouldn't mess it up much as the fthrow is easy and bthrow has an easy visual cue.

You can't hobble Bowser.
His get-up animation is faster than every other character.

 

[-LzR-]

But... What difference would that make?

 

[Smoom77]

His getting up animation is already happening when you try to hit him with an ice block. The window to make him reset has already passed.

 

[-LzR-]

Oh that sucks. Well, Bowser is like the easiest char to cg normally anyways.
Also, finally got that Diddy down. The secret was to be as close to popo as possible.

 

[Latch]

Hey, so I was playing casual matches this weekend, and noticed that a surprising amount of the time my IC's would desynch when I tried to recover, which would lead to an embarrassing death. One of the times this would occur would be if Nana grabbed the edge after Popo got hit offstage, she would not teleport to Popo when I used belay, killing me. Is there a thread detailing all the ways that recoveries fail horribly, and how to avoid them? Also seems like Nana won't teleport if she's tumbling.

 

[Roller]

Oh that sucks. Well, Bowser is like the easiest char to cg normally anyways.
Also, finally got that Diddy down. The secret was to be as close to popo as possible.

I disagree with the bowser statement. But he isn't hard to cg anyway so whatever.

For diddy I actually take a step or 2 in order to regrab off the buffer throw, instead of just standing still. Granted I do b->f on him instead of f->b 'cause I'm a baddy.


Vinnie, when you did the cg to spike off platform->regrab on ground before he landed on YI this past weekend vs Holy or whoever it was. Do you just walk forward off the platform after spiking? or did you jump or something? And does it work during any tilting of the platform, or just while the platform is tilting on certain angles?

It was hot, btw.

 

[Sieguest]

People and stating "X character is the easiest to cg" as definites. It's like an annoying sore that you ice away for a while and then it just comes back, eventually leading one to just succumb to living with it.

Hey, so I was playing casual matches this weekend, and noticed that a surprising amount of the time my IC's would desynch when I tried to recover, which would lead to an embarrassing death. One of the times this would occur would be if Nana grabbed the edge after Popo got hit offstage, she would not teleport to Popo when I used belay, killing me. Is there a thread detailing all the ways that recoveries fail horribly, and how to avoid them? Also seems like Nana won't teleport if she's tumbling.

Yes, yes, these are all true. And no there isn't a thread (yet) because I haven't finished it. A simple solution is to not be so hasty when recovering. If you can tell by Nana's trajectory that she's going to snap to the ledge, you may consider solo squall to recover if you're high enough, or wait for her to let go and then belay.

 

[Latch]

People and stating "X character is the easiest to cg" as definites. It's like an annoying sore that you ice away for a while and then it just comes back, eventually leading one to just succumb to living with it.

Yes, yes, these are all true. And no there isn't a thread (yet) because I haven't finished it. A simple solution is to not be so hasty when recovering. If you can tell by Nana's trajectory that she's going to snap to the ledge, you may consider solo squall to recover if you're high enough, or wait for her to let go and then belay.

Thanks! And it's cool that you're working on a thread. Smash researchers are awesome!

 

[Attila_]

General rules for the peach and olimar matchups?

Or any good videos demonstrating how the matchup should be played?

 

[-LzR-]

If the Oli is bad, desynch Blizzard to your hearts content, it's a free win.

 

[Roller]

vs Peach, don't just go for grabs. Take them if she does something ********, but otherwise box her out with aerials.

Don't try to punish her landing fair with a sheildgrab. She's baiting you for the punish.

I find that squall approaching, especially from slightly above her works pretty well as a surprise every once in a while.

Don't blizzard when she has a turnip in hand.

You can nair her out of sheild.

lrn2bungeejump to gimp her. somebody else find gimr's vid for him on how to do it, I'm lazy.

tilt your shield up when she dairs it.





It's a tough matchup. In fact is the character I am most afraid of.

 

[-LzR-]

As IC, should I play campy or aggressive most of the time?

 

[SSBBDaisy]

campgressive


My question: Should I buy the one ply or the 2 ply when I go to walmart today (toilet paper)


No dat nat meh question.

What do u do when that rare occasion where someone either grabs the edge or tether grabs it, at I think its the same time when ur recovering or bungee jumping and nana just like dosen't grab the edge but stays floating near it (u know that glitchy *****y thing she does) and then she eventually falls to her doom unable to do anything? Would a squall save her? I know belay could save her but it puts u in a bad situation if u use it on stage.

 

[Smoom77]

@Roller, thats all okay advice, but don't squall her from mid-distance. Nair beats it, as well as all of her other aerials. Only squall while close, and it has to be completely unpredictable. And as for nair oos, are you talking about against her dair? It's really hard to pull off unless you have experience.

 

[Aefice]

whats best option if popo or nana gets grabbed?

if u think the opponent is going for a grab, what would be a good counter?

 

[-LzR-]

I press A so the other climber starts to jab.

 

[Smoom77]

Ummm, please be a little more specific?

 

[-LzR-]

Opponent tries to grab, only one climber can be grabbed. Spam A, the other climber will start jabbing which will interrupt the grab if done fast enough and doens't send the opponent too far so might even get a grab. k

 

[Smoom77]

Oh, if they are together and they grab, yeah, jab. I was thinking if they are separated.

 

[Roller]

@Roller, thats all okay advice, but don't squall her from mid-distance. Nair beats it, as well as all of her other aerials. Only squall while close, and it has to be completely unpredictable. And as for nair oos, are you talking about against her dair? It's really hard to pull off unless you have experience.

Yeah, like I said, I use it as an occasional surprise. Obviously don't spam it or use it as a default approach. And I was indeed referring to nairing her OoS, guess I forgot to type that. =/

But you definitely have more experience in the mu, and against a better peach. Your advice would probably help more than mine.