If they are separated and Popo is grabbed, doesn't Nana go into an uncontrollable state?
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General ICs Q&A Thread
- Thread starter smaci92
- Start date
Sieguest
Smash Master
To a point, when Popo is grabbed, Nana's focus shifts to the opponent (or opponents in a team battle) you can dictate a special to perform by holding it before she comes within the opponent's "sync" range for lack of better wording at the moment. You could also dictate a non special attack that isn't a smash, but since she's most likely dashing she'll dash attack and she has a strange tendency to randomly switch directions when she finally commits to it.
Latch
Smash Apprentice
Both should lead into grabs, but with squall you have less embarrassment if nana decides to turn away from the opponent while blizzarding. Not sure if you can control where nana goes when she squalls, but if you can, that's much better than blizzard. If you can't nana should try to run into the opponent, but you never know. I also would NEVER use squall if you are grabbed near an edge, since nana might pull a SD.
Sieguest
Smash Master
Nana only pulls this abrupt turnaround when she does a dash attack when coming in.
Latch
Smash Apprentice
Sorry, I didn't realize that. Though I still wouldn't use squall near a ledge, especially a slanted one like on YI:B or Lylat. If you use a squall on a slant, you do slide downhill, right?
Dojo
Smash Champion
I am learning this character. Teach me stuff.
Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Dojo
Smash Champion
Haven't really talked to anyone. Who else is converting?
Roller
Smash Legend
grab people. a lot.
An embarrassing fact, can't name any... But I'm pretty damn sure I have heard of other MK mains that have switched to ICs.
Oh well, they will make a nice IC. They can play even gayer
Dojo
Smash Champion
Oh so you just mad. Gotcha.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
Dojo FUUUUUUUUU.
That's actually really cool. Your ICs will wreck. Go to Batous and I'll talk ICs with you. I'm garbage but I know how to CG. And kinda know some desynchs.
Anywho, learn those. Start with dthrow CG, it's super easy. Then fthrow, then bthrow.
On dthrow its dthrow with Popo, walk forward with nana(careful, don't run) and grab before Popo puts enemy A on the ground. Like, before you see the shockwave then grab. But when nana Dthrows, Popo walks forward, and grabs after that little shock wave.
Also learn to desynch like a boss.
Training mode is your best friend now.
Now someone correct my false info. I promised lux I wouldnt answer questions, but I got excited. Dojo mains ICs now :D
That's actually really cool. Your ICs will wreck. Go to Batous and I'll talk ICs with you. I'm garbage but I know how to CG. And kinda know some desynchs.
Anywho, learn those. Start with dthrow CG, it's super easy. Then fthrow, then bthrow.
On dthrow its dthrow with Popo, walk forward with nana(careful, don't run) and grab before Popo puts enemy A on the ground. Like, before you see the shockwave then grab. But when nana Dthrows, Popo walks forward, and grabs after that little shock wave.
Also learn to desynch like a boss.
Training mode is your best friend now.
Now someone correct my false info. I promised lux I wouldnt answer questions, but I got excited. Dojo mains ICs now :D
Dojo
Smash Champion
Yeah, I've probably put in about 15-20 hours of practice in the last week and a half. Vinnie and Esam have both been helping me out.
I've learned how to neutralb and downb desync on command, and have gotten pretty much every chaingrab down on the easier characters. I still drop a bit but I'm getting better everyday. Currently learning the more awkward ones like Snake and Wario and stuff. I still can't hobble well... I miss majority of the time but I haven't practice that much yet so, meh.
They're really fun to play though, I'm excited.
I've learned how to neutralb and downb desync on command, and have gotten pretty much every chaingrab down on the easier characters. I still drop a bit but I'm getting better everyday. Currently learning the more awkward ones like Snake and Wario and stuff. I still can't hobble well... I miss majority of the time but I haven't practice that much yet so, meh.
They're really fun to play though, I'm excited.
Dojo
Smash Champion
Both Vinnie and Esam told me the most effective CG on Snake includes hobbling so I'm really inclined to learn it.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
talk to smoom at hobo dojo
Dojo
Smash Champion
Not going to hobo. Too far.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Blizzard and Ice Block don't have any "normal" ways to desynch after use. Please use a better term, since most desynchs have quite basic namings. (Dash Dance Desynch, Pivot desynch, Dtilt Desynch, etc.) Cause I have no idea wtf you're trying to say.
/Literal and straight forward with most of my wording
Anyways, any actual questions? Just don't ask how to CG or anything, worst question to ask here imo. >_>
Hobbling is indeed worth it if your opponent is not a monster at SDI, just don't attempt it when you're EXTREMELY close to the edge, thats when its not worth it.
Edit: Also watch for mashers, since its mega easy to buffer mashes out.
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Well yeah, that is what I would say to do. That's normally what I do to heavies unless I decide to try the 2011 CG. d/d/d/d/d/d until like 3/4ths stage is behind me, hobble, repeat.
Dojo
Smash Champion
^^^
Rubberband man, I haven't done much research so idk what they're called but if I had to guess its the first two you named. Tbh, I don't have a lot of questions right now because I haven't taken them to a tourney but I'm sure I will after my first couple. Have two coming up this month.
Rubberband man, I haven't done much research so idk what they're called but if I had to guess its the first two you named. Tbh, I don't have a lot of questions right now because I haven't taken them to a tourney but I'm sure I will after my first couple. Have two coming up this month.
and if he isnt bad? lol
thanks for the advice.vs Peach, don't just go for grabs. Take them if she does something ********, but otherwise box her out with aerials.
Don't try to punish her landing fair with a sheildgrab. She's baiting you for the punish.
I find that squall approaching, especially from slightly above her works pretty well as a surprise every once in a while.
Don't blizzard when she has a turnip in hand.
You can nair her out of sheild.
lrn2bungeejump to gimp her. somebody else find gimr's vid for him on how to do it, I'm lazy.
tilt your shield up when she dairs it.
It's a tough matchup. In fact
i may get counterpicked by her when im already using ics, so i want to be at least a little prepared. havent played the mu since '09 lol.
one more: is everyone finishing off cgs with uthrow + usmash now? can i ask why? is the input just for a jump cancelled usmash?
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,310
Based on spatial hitbox/hurtbox geometry, uthrow > usmash helps guarantee a sweet spot.
I've seen most ICs do it straight out of p bthrow > n dthrow > p throw > n uthrow > p usmash, but I'm more of a fan of the P fthrow > N bthrow > P fthrow > N uthrow > P partial charge Usmash because in some cases, you can alternate to P fthrow > Nbthrow > P Fthrow > N Dthrow > P 2/3rds charged Fsmash on heavy characters and unmashably kill at super low percents.
@Esam: If you want to transition easily into the non-hobble tripless CG without getting rid of your dthrow ease, you could always just dthrow until you need to turn around, use P Fthrow > N bthrow to triplessly turn around, and go the other way with dthrow. I do this on stages where the terrain isn't ideal for hobbling (YIB, Lylat, etc.). It transitions well into that F Smash kill at the edge at like 15% lower than most Usmash attempts would kill at, meaning 3 less throws to drop.
I've seen most ICs do it straight out of p bthrow > n dthrow > p throw > n uthrow > p usmash, but I'm more of a fan of the P fthrow > N bthrow > P fthrow > N uthrow > P partial charge Usmash because in some cases, you can alternate to P fthrow > Nbthrow > P Fthrow > N Dthrow > P 2/3rds charged Fsmash on heavy characters and unmashably kill at super low percents.
@Esam: If you want to transition easily into the non-hobble tripless CG without getting rid of your dthrow ease, you could always just dthrow until you need to turn around, use P Fthrow > N bthrow to triplessly turn around, and go the other way with dthrow. I do this on stages where the terrain isn't ideal for hobbling (YIB, Lylat, etc.). It transitions well into that F Smash kill at the edge at like 15% lower than most Usmash attempts would kill at, meaning 3 less throws to drop.
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
I don't really play ICs on YI/Lylat very often, and especially not the heavy characters. I'm good enough with the p.Bthrow so...I good :D
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
I'm going to play ICs again because I'm hype about dojo picking them up.
Back to the drawing board I guess.
The only desynch I ever do is... Meh I forgot the name. Belay onto the ledge, and then bam, your desynched. I do that every time I recover.
Back to the drawing board I guess.
The only desynch I ever do is... Meh I forgot the name. Belay onto the ledge, and then bam, your desynched. I do that every time I recover.
Eh, if you can just chaingrab snake normally there is almost no point in hobbling. Hobbling is just an easy way to turn around with snake since a lot of people have trouble back throwing heavies. You are going to have to dthrow twice between each hobble under like 70-80% if they are good mashers anyways, so you might as well just dthrow cg snake till you need to turn around lol. Hobbling also doesn't work on several stages so if it's something you rely on and you end up going to say lylat or yoshis it can really screw you over.
My advice would be to just learn every chaingrab you can on all the weight classes. You never know when you might need to use a different chaingrab because of the stage or how nana is spaced or a platform. It's pretty daunting at first though so just stick with what works for you until you are comfortable enough to branch out.
Honestly just practice each throw individually. Don't practice bthrow>dthrow. Practice doing bthrows back to back; the same with fthrow and dthrow. You have to get the basics down first.
But I recommend you start with 2011 CG (Fthrow bthrow). Please. Don't learn hobbling first.
But I recommend you start with 2011 CG (Fthrow bthrow). Please. Don't learn hobbling first.
Mr. game and watch
Smash Master
I view it like, the fthrow, dthrow, and bthrow are "Primes"
Every CG is based on those, so the three should be learned and be able to be performed with ease first right?
Every CG is based on those, so the three should be learned and be able to be performed with ease first right?
I don't understand why people have problems with heavies. If you use the 2011 way to do it, it's pretty easy actually. You can use simple visual cues. When Nana backthrows, the moment she is facing towards or away from the screen, you grab. That's how I do it and I can do Bthrow without a problem on most chars. On Snake though, lolno.
And that makes me wonder, when I do the P fthrow > N Bthrow thing on Snake... The Bthrow always misses since Snake is sent in a really weird angle and the spacing is insane to pull off. Any framedata or stuff to tell what to do? Near or far from Snake? From what I've experienced, it's almost impossible to pull of unlike most heavies.
And that makes me wonder, when I do the P fthrow > N Bthrow thing on Snake... The Bthrow always misses since Snake is sent in a really weird angle and the spacing is insane to pull off. Any framedata or stuff to tell what to do? Near or far from Snake? From what I've experienced, it's almost impossible to pull of unlike most heavies.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
No frame data needed, its your spacing. Snake has a weird as hell hurtbox from throws, you have to be practically inside of him in certain points, you can't just catch the heel of his leg or anything. Would like to see his hurtbubbles during the throws; that would actually be useful in general to see hurtboxes to make CGs more accurate.
Good way to put it really. They are the basis for every CG, and you just mix and match them after you get the timing down.
Oh yes that was pretty much what I was asking. I wanted to know if you have to be reaaallly close or reaaally far when trying to grab Snake. I have tried to do it at the average range. Meh, I'll go G&W against Snake for now.
Also... Is the Fusion Glitch banned?
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
I hate GnW vs Snake. :<
Consider fusion glitch banned, since it does something that disrupts normal gameplay functions.
Sieguest
Smash Master
No need for apologies. o. o
Depends on the grade of the slant, I don't know an exact angle for when a solo squall will move downhill regardless of input direction and how fast you're mashing b. Though for stages like YI near the ledge and Lylat (if the ship is tilted more towards the side you're squalling + the natural slope of the stage.) You'll definitely move downhill.
And slowly but surely, the Ice Climbers are looking to gain a greater percentage of the smash community using them.