General ICs Q&A Thread

[dettadeus]

What's the spacing/timing on B-Throw on D3 for a Nana regrab then? I kept dropping it when I got to the edge because I couldn't regrab from the B-Throw.

 

[Roller]

Awesome, thanks! :D That makes my grabs a lot smoother haha.

And yessir. With MK gone from most of the tourneys around Cincinnati, I need someone who can handle D3, Pika and Sheik better than Wolf. XD I figured since I could already CG with them pretty well, why not? Lol. At Ohayocon this weekend I'm going to use them against some of the con noobs to get a similar feel to what it's like to have to execute without dropping grabs under pressure haha.

watch out, as cons often use HDTVs. They throw a LOT of people off with cg's.

What's the spacing/timing on B-Throw on D3 for a Nana regrab then? I kept dropping it when I got to the edge because I couldn't regrab from the B-Throw.

you really just have to get a feel for it yourself. It is pretty slow timing. But I usually hobble to turn around for D3.

 

[dettadeus]

Yeah, I was thinking I'd learn to hobble to turn around with heavier characters. It looked like it worked for Atomsk in the one video I've watched of his Icies (the one in the "Best Videos" thread).

Think I'm gonna go practice now.

EDIT:
Yeah, so I tried a bit of B-Throw Hobbling on D3, got it to work for a bit. And then I figured out the timing/spacing for a direct P B-Throw > N Regrab. >.<
The Hobbling took me a while to get since there wasn't anything that actually said what stuff to do in exact order. It's apparently P Grab > Let Nana return to neutral position > Move control stick back + Nana jump > P B-Throw + Nana jump spam > Footstool + Ice Blocks > Popo regrab. I'll figure out how to do the F-Smash thing like Atomsk in that one video eventually, but now I can at least do a basic Hobble.
I also got it to work on Snake, much more consistently than on D3. But then I also got the B-Throw timing down. Although I couldn't do B-Throw > F-Throw more than once, but I got Hobbling and P D-Throw > N F-Throw down, so I should be good.

 

[-LzR-]

When against Marth at a neutral position, what should be my best options? He can easily combo Nana for a kill and his moves overall are so safe I have so much trouble getting in at all...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Blizzard is the solution in Melee, not sure about Brawl but I can't see why it would be any different.

 

[Roller]

you can use blizzard to space, but you have to be careful about it. Fair can trade with it.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

old response, but i have played mjg. albeit with pit. and im just saying what vinnie himself told me. he sconrns the thought of ICs having any bad MU and idr if he said maybe toon link. besides, we have pj. the gayest toon link. and jerm, nuff said. but outside TL, vinnie thinks ICs beat everyone, including peach and zss. or that's what he said to me.

 

[DeLux]

Vinnie told me at apex he thinks we beat TL

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

there ya go. the best ICs (him or esam)

 

[-LzR-]

you can use blizzard to space, but you have to be careful about it. Fair can trade with it.

And that is kinda the problem. Marth wins the trade.

 

[Roller]

The blizzards should be retreating. But yeah, it is tricky. I myself have some problems vs Marth. Lain's advice to me was powershielding is your best friend. watch how he tends to land and either powersheild->grab, or if they don't land with a fair (just do a rising one or something) run through->pivotgrab.

Other than that, wait until they mess up. You can also try mixing in some full hop blizzards along with the sh'd ones to throw them off

 

[Aefice]

how does powershielding work with ice climbers?

how many frames do you have to be able to power shield with both ice climbers?

 

[Smoom77]

-waits for Delux to post-

 

[Roller]

Assuming you are sync'd I would assume the window is 6 frames smaller than the normal framewindow for powershielding. I could be very slightly off though (by a frame or 2), I'll let Lux correct me.

Actually, with the first shield possibly delaying the hit on the second sheild, that could be way different. nevermind. Listen to whatever Lux says.

 

[Rubberbandman]

how does powershielding work with ice climbers?

how many frames do you have to be able to power shield with both ice climbers?

Its either frame 1, or we can't.

/Also waits for Lux

See how much we need you Luxy? SEE?

 

[Vinnie]

old response, but i have played mjg. albeit with pit. and im just saying what vinnie himself told me. he sconrns the thought of ICs having any bad MU and idr if he said maybe toon link. besides, we have pj. the gayest toon link. and jerm, nuff said. but outside TL, vinnie thinks ICs beat everyone, including peach and zss. or that's what he said to me.

I think Peach beats ICs slightly, same with ZSS. I think we beat TL, though I'd like to wait to play MJG one more time before I come to that conclusion. When I beat him at APEX in r2 pools, both games were a 2 stock, but that included NO dropped grabs, both games were battlefield (my best stage), me reading his jumps with uairs, and like 2 dtilt gimps. I think he'll be a lot harder for me to beat at Canada now that he knows what's coming, so I'll check back here after I play him again. My current opinion: 5:5 or 55:45 our favor.

 

[DeLux]

In order to PS with both climbers, you need to have PS'd based on spacing. As in, you PS on the 3 frame window with popo after you entered run at your opponent so that Nana brings up her shield 5 frames later and also PS's the opponent's hitbox because she slides her shield into it at the appropriate time.

From a standstill, I'm almost 100% positive you can't have both PS a move.

For proof, try PSing a bomb throw from TL from a neutral stance

Either Popo PS's it and Nana eats damage or both climbers gets hit.
Now try PSing a bomb throw from TL while running at him.

 

[dettadeus]

Yeah I'm still posting here and asking about chaingrabs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z67p9PBA22s
(just the first clip, the rest are me screwing up)
Is this a legit/usable chaingrab? I got this one down on Falco and can't get any other ones on him besides pure Wobbling with good consistency. If this is worth practicing more of, I'll practice it more, but I was wondering if there was an easier CG with less room for error. I know the Wobbling is SDI'able, but I don't think my scene's usual Falco does and I doubt he'd be able to SDI it on reaction anyways.

I can get P F-Throw > N F-Throw > P B-Throw > N Regrab and continue it like once more but after one or two repetitions my spacing and timing get mysteriously thrown off.

Also, I tried P F-Throw > N D-throw with some success, but Nana keeps grabbing in a weird spot (I think just after Popo regrabs from the D-Throw). Is this just a buffering issue?

Also, just a random question, what's the fastest way to desync to a Blizzard Wall in a neutral position?

 

[DeLux]

You can't wobble in brawl >_> That's a melee specific term

You're looking for Hobble

And the one on the platform should not be used due to being able to SDI the IBs enough that they would fall off the platform.

Just do P Fthrow > N Bthrow and stop trying to do all these complex things when they are redundant to what is already a tripless, unmashable, 0-death infinite


Fastest way to desync blizzard wall from neutral would be SND > P Blizzard > N SH Blizzard

 

[Rubberbandman]

CGs >>> Hobbling

Wobbling doesn't exist. Wobbling is the infinite from Melee; whereas hobbling is the one you performed. I hate when people get them mixed up. -.-

Just stick with standard Bthrow -> Dthrow on Falco; Fast, Easy; Efficient for beginners.

Desynched Blizzard wall and you dont want to move, or Blizzard wall just from a neutral position?

 

[dettadeus]

...Wow. I meant hobbling; typo, I guess. Been watching too many Melee videos. >.<
Didn't even realized I typed Wobbling until you guys mentioned it, despite proofreading it twice before posting.

The issue I was finding was that I couldn't get the spacing/timing on B-Throw down consistently on Falco, but I could get Hobbling to work fine. I guess it's just something for me to actually sit and practice for a while.

And thanks for the desync stuff.

 

[DeLux]

If your tech skill is extremely good, you could also in theory frame perfect turn around desync out of neutral stance to blizzard wall

I have yet to meet someone that could do it non-buffered though (I know I can't and I tried to learn for days ) but doing it out of shield drop is pretty easy.


Just practice PFthrow > NBthrow. The only characters I don't do that to are lucas, ness, snake, rob, and some other obscure stuff, all of which I then Dthrow > Dthrow across the stage.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I don't even know why its called Hobbling, the two chain-grabs are nothing alike lol

 

[-LzR-]

That's why they have different names.

 

[Teh Future]

I think Peach beats ICs slightly, same with ZSS. I think we beat TL, though I'd like to wait to play MJG one more time before I come to that conclusion. When I beat him at APEX in r2 pools, both games were a 2 stock, but that included NO dropped grabs, both games were battlefield (my best stage), me reading his jumps with uairs, and like 2 dtilt gimps. I think he'll be a lot harder for me to beat at Canada now that he knows what's coming, so I'll check back here after I play him again. My current opinion: 5:5 or 55:45 our favor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLjhVPoEaUY&feature=related



I think the real question here is, will Lux finally be able to beat FUTUREWRESTLER!!?!?!!

 

[DeLux]

I don't think we've played in tournament yet, but I fear the day that we eventually will because I'm going to be exposed as mediocre

 

[Teh Future]

No we are just going to get eliminated by

 

[DeLux]

Bracket manipulation time:

I'll take the Olimars, you stay on the other side of the bracket?

Meet in WF's?

If an Olimar is waiting in LF's, bracket manipulation again and I'll forfeit to seal victory?

 

[Teh Future]

lol nah, I'm looking for a legit win :]

I actually tried to practice.

we will see if it does anything.

Lets MM Bo7 if we don't play in bracket

 

[DeLux]

BRB practicing up my Olimar

 

[Vinnie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLjhVPoEaUY&feature=related

Nietono, 9B, me, and ESAM all agree that : is even.

 

[Sylarius]

Can anyone explain the 2011 IC Chaingrab with more detail and timing cues? I'm having trouble doing the buffered turnaround grab, I always dash or walk. =/

Also, I can do 0-50% on a Marth using Popo bthrow, but the problem is Nana is doing a dashing pivot grab, and trips rarely. x_x

 

[Rubberbandman]

It you can't do the normal chaingrab, don't try to learn Lux's CG.

 

[Sylarius]

For the IC Chaingrab, should I be using the Popo Fthrow --> Nana Bthrow/Popo buffered turnaround regrab combination?

For the last 3 days I've been using the opposite (Nana fthrow) and I have it down somewhat. I can consistently chaingrab Marth to about 50% but the spacing looks wrong. =/

Syl, the way that you are actually doing it. With the nana F-throw is the way most ICs do it.

However, if you are just learning now; then the popo f-throw -> nana b-throw->Popo buffered turnaround regrab is DEFINITELY the one you should learn.

It you can't do the normal chaingrab, don't try to learn Lux's CG.

The Rules for Posting

13. Only respond if you know the answer.

Thank you for not contributing a single bit to answering my question.
Anyways, I'm uploading the videos of me vs a level 9 Marth to show you guys what I mean.

 

[Luminoth64]

Can anyone explain the 2011 IC Chaingrab with more detail and timing cues? I'm having trouble doing the buffered turnaround grab, I always dash or walk. =/

Also, I can do 0-50% on a Marth using Popo bthrow, but the problem is Nana is doing a dashing pivot grab, and trips rarely. x_x

What is the advantage of it as well? The advantage over PBthrow -> NFthrow or PBthrow -> NDthrow, anyway.

I'm getting the new CG down, I just don't see it's advantages necessarily.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

It is a tripless CG.

 

[Luminoth64]

I see! That would explain it. Thanks.

 

[Sylarius]

Well, here's the video of me doing the Popo Bthrow --> Nana Fthrow combination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcofjQ2f4Q0

This is the one of me trying to do the newer one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvZd4a9k20E

I got bodyed by the CPU in the second one lol..

Scroll up for my question.

EDIT: Sorry for the bad quality. D: I need to buy a capture card or figure out how to use Dolphin sometime soon.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Thank you for not contributing a single bit to answering my question.
Anyways, I'm uploading the videos of me vs a level 9 Marth to show you guys what I mean.

I gave you my sound advice on it, and you want to throw something someone else said into this?

 

[Cygnet]

Sylarius, usually Nana walks too far after your Pfthrow for the Nbthrow to be regrab-able. Make sure that you do as small a step as possible. Nana should sorta be overlapping Popo if you do it small enough.

I also noticed that sometimes your Popo walks backwards; you should be buffering the turnaround so that you won't walk. I guess you just have to keep practicing to know the timing for the back throw, but it's almost immediately after Nana catches the enemy, I think. Something you can also try is holding back right after you hit forwards for the fthrow, it sorta gives you a sense for what timing you should have, if that makes sense.