General ICs Q&A Thread

[Maharba the Mystic]

i mean after you get them to kill percents. it seemed like it would be a good way to time someone out. and you don't have to it in one direction. you can move popo while nana pummels at high percents and make him be on the other side of the guy you are pummeling and have him face back at them

edit:

but thx for pointing out all the flaws. it does seem pretty useless after reading that.

 

[DeLux]

How do you pummel someone without buffering a grab or some other move with the other climber?

You have only +30 frame advantage on ground break. Grab is 29 frames totatl. That gives the opponent a 5 frame window where they would be able to escape if you use grab to pummel.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

ill post a vid of the what im talking about today or tomorrow

 

[DeLux]

I understand what you're talking about and my question still stands as legitimate reason as to why we don't do it >_>

if you can answer it, Imma start pummeling people lol

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i just pummel and then hit forward while the pummel animation is being done and move the IC into position. then just spam pummel and it always tends to grab like as soon as possible when i did it. then with popo you just pummel>hit forward during animation> walk behind them, pummel and hold slightly back, popo is facing the character. spam pummel and popo grabs as soon as they break out. i was bored the other night that's why i tried this out lol. i dropped it several times but the fact that it can be done means there has to be a consistent way to do it right?

 

[DeLux]

Again, how are you inputting pummel.

The situation you are implying is a desynced state, so in order to pummel, you'd have to hit the attack button in some way. That would make the non grabbing climber commit to either a grab or an attack.

If you commit to an attack, you risk breaking the grab via attack knockback.

If you commit to grab, I demonstrated there's going to be a 5 frame window where they could grab break and we wouldnt' be able to grab.

So I reiterate the question: How are you inputting pummel without having the desynced climber commit to an option that makes the regrab not guaranteed?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

my head hurts lol. i said popo will do grab animation. ill post a vid and if it works you will see why and if it is going down the way you say it is you can be like "frame stuff" and ill be "yes IC guru, i see the light of your path"

i've got work soon so ill record it tonight and post it and send it to you

 

[DeLux]

In all honesty, I hope you know something I don't because as I said, if we could reliably I'd pummel people for days.

 

[Rubberbandman]

What he is saying is in order to infinitely pummel someone, you have to NOT commit to any action whatsoever. But, in order to pummel them and continue it, you have to commit to either grab or an attack option; Attack will cause the opponent to be knocked out of the hands of whichever Ice Climber is holding the opponent as well as commit to the option of attack, and pressing Grab will make you commit to grab, in which your opponent will have time to escape from your re-grab.

That's what he said.

 

[Rykard]

does anyone else think zero suit samus complements the IC matchups really well for a secondary?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

why would u have a secondary for ICs? aside from maybe toonlink they don't actually have a disadvantaged MU with MK gone. and if you really need a secondary for TL, marth da bes choice tmk

edit:

looked at MU chart. lol at peach beating ICs. zss, meh why do the ditto when there are Characters that beat her and go even/beat TL like pika?

 

[Rubberbandman]

does anyone else think zero suit samus complements the IC matchups really well for a secondary?

In theory, I'd say yes, but I don't feel they have the same synergy together that a lot of the other top tier characters do. ZSS is more of a "main" character and not a "secondary" character, if you get what I mean.

why would u have a secondary for ICs? aside from maybe toonlink they don't actually have a disadvantaged MU with MK gone. and if you really need a secondary for TL, marth da bes choice tmk

Umm, please don't spout nonsense sir. You looked only at matchups when you forget the the only real problem Icies have, which is really what keeps people like me from being a pure Icies main, is the fact that we get destroyed on CPs like RC and Brinstar. So unless the stage list becomes more conservative sometime soon, you will NEED a CP character pretty much. I don't even understand why we're this high on the tier list when we do so bad on hard CP stages. =/

Shoutouts to Smoom, Lux, and other people that go pure Icies.

 

[Smoom77]

why is snake so high on the tier list when he does so bad on the hard CP stages?

 

[Rubberbandman]

why is snake so high on the tier list when he does so bad on the hard CP stages?

I know that Fatal does good on Rainbow Cruise, so I dont see him go there too often.

 

[Hylian]

why is snake so high on the tier list when he does so bad on the hard CP stages?

Snake does amazing on hard CP stages lol.

 

[Rykard]

my reasoning actually had nothing to do with counterpicks. and to be honest, ICs don't do that bad on Cruise in my opinion

 

[Smoom77]

Try beating a Pit there.

@Hylian, I feel like snake wouldn't do that well against Wario on brinstar or RC. But again, in my opinion, ICs do fine against Wario on those two stages.

 

[Hylian]

Try beating a Pit there.

@Hylian, I feel like snake wouldn't do that well against Wario on brinstar or RC. But again, in my opinion, ICs do fine against Wario on those two stages.

I can play this game too.

Snake does better against GW on RC/Brinstar than MK does.

I also don't see how Ic's do well against Wario on either of those stages considering how easily he can kill nana on the second part of RC and brinstar is just lol.

 

[Smoom77]

What about brinstar is so easy for Wario?

 

[DeLux]

His air speed means that he can zone for engagement at any lava rise.

Brinstar is the answer to the Wario Riddle

The Wario Riddle:

"Riddle me this Wario player, how will you get your opponent off the ground without risking getting grabbed?"

Enda, don't shout out to me, I don't even play ICs anymore >_>


Peach beats ICs
TL beats ICs
ZSS beats ICs
Everyone and their mom beats ICs (on RC/Brinstar)

 

[Attila_]

Instead of the inputs, you should describe what the climbers actually do and then I could probably tell you what inputs you are making lol

popo appears to dash dance ice block, will nana moves behind him with a forwards dash animation.

pretty please?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You have to hold the dash for the kakera desync. You are letting go and this doing a pivot desync (Don't know the technical term is there is one)

 

[Attila_]

hold dash? wouldn't that result in a squall hammer?

now im confused. if someone could like a video, that would be ace.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Mmk, step by step. I'm going to do this as if I wanted to kakera desync to the right

Dash left
Dash right
Hold dash until popo starts to run
Right when popo starts to run, press down-b. Nana will blizzard while popo will crouch.

 

[Attila_]

cool as. thanks esam.

i was doing a pivot desynch of sorts then. sorted.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

you know not trying to promote my other main at all for this, but if you need a character to deal with hard CPs, use pit. he is easy to pick up if you just want to use him for hard CPs, and he ***** most people on hard CPs. RC, Brinstar, Halberd, Delphino, these are all **** stages for pit. he doesn't lose a single MU on these stages except G&W and Wario at Brinstar (mayb snake at brinstar too but he still wins against snake at halberd so there you go). im totally serious, try fighting a pit on RC or Halberd or watever that knows the basics of his ground and air game (the only ATs you need with him are Pivot arrow and wing refresh, they take no skill to perform). if you are looking for a stage CP character, pit is a solid choice.

 

[dettadeus]

Should I even bother going Icies against Snake, or should I use one of my other mains like Pikachu against him? I used Ice Climbers in a couple tournament matches today and got destroyed by Steam's Snake.
Also, do the Icies' throws really slow down significantly when throwing heavier characters? I kept screwing up the timing on P D-Throw > N F-Throw whenever I got a grab.

 

[DeLux]

Snake at earlier stages of the metagame was considered ICs hardest MU. I think it trends now more towards even to barely in Snakes Adv. From ease of use, I'd figure you'd be more comfortable with Pikachu, because it takes a lot of technical precision even outside of CGing to play the Snake MU at a high level.

It slows down a lot on heavy characters

 

[Hylian]

If you play pikachu, use pikachu against snake. It's probably snakes worst match-up.

 

[Roller]

Maharba, please stop answering things in here right now. In all honesty, you have no real experience to back up most of what you're saying.

The fact that you question why an ICs would even consider a secondary is absurd. The fact you listed Toon link, and ONLY toon link as a problem matchup is equally heinous. And I sincerely doubt you've ever played mjg, (nor in all likelihod will you, considering you are in different regions.) and quite frankly he's the only Toon Link right now that can highlight the poorness of the matchup. Pretty much every toon link is beatable by just a decent ICs.

Meanwhile, try playing against any legitimate with ICs...

Peach is EASILY my most feared mu.

Also. No@Pit for a good secondary choice.


@detta: Actually.. Snake is one of the reasons I switched from pika to ICs. L

I'm sure esam will disagree, but I personally had an incredibly easy time dealing damage to snake, up to 150 or so (with the cg and little combos and whatnot), but then could NOT kill. There are no real guaranteed kill setups or remotely safe kill options. The capability to get snake into a guaranteed kill with CGing->death was really appealing to me for ICs.It is however a difficult matchup, but I believe it's an even one. You just have to practice the subtleties, such as being able to throw grenades away while cging, and making sure you can consistently cg for that matter. The spacing on the cg for snake is pretty strict, so it takes a while to get consistent with it. But once you get it down, and can throw the grenades away in the middle of it. The matchup becomes a lot more bearable. You still obviously have to be very on point with spacing and such tho.

 

[Attila_]

as a snake main who seconds ics... i think the mu is about even. definitely not worth picking up a new character for.

but if you have a pocket pika, it will make things significantly easier for you o_O

 

[mnstr]

1. Where can I find a guide to hobbling (I think that's what it's called)? It's a cg for snake that involves footstooling and ice blocks or sommat like that.

2. Does f-throw -> desynched ice blocks work? Sometimes after f-throw the opponent falls on the ground and can't get up because they are constantly getting hit by ice blocks. Will it work on some characters at some percents, or can people easily DI out of it?

Thank you in advance =)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

In response to the first question, fthrow would give them the opportunity to tech before they become grounded.

 

[-LzR-]

ICs have some many amazing things they can do with grabs and stuff, but it's all obsolete as we can just simply CG them.

 

[Luminoth64]

If I'm doing the normal popo bthrow -> nana dthrow cg and nana keeps grabbing after her throw, what am I doing wrong? :x Anyone else have this issue when they first picked up ICs?

This doesn't always happen to me, just once in awhile and I want to know how to completely prevent it from happening.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You aren't holding Z long enough. You are pressing z and letting go in her buffer window, so she then inputs a grab on the first frame she can. Hold Z for a little longer and she should flash her shield.

 

[Roller]

Picking up ICs, Lumi? =o

And yeah,what ESAM said. Wait to see the sheild before you release z (or w/e you are using to grab).

 

[Luminoth64]

Awesome, thanks! :D That makes my grabs a lot smoother haha.

And yessir. With MK gone from most of the tourneys around Cincinnati, I need someone who can handle D3, Pika and Sheik better than Wolf. XD I figured since I could already CG with them pretty well, why not? Lol. At Ohayocon this weekend I'm going to use them against some of the con noobs to get a similar feel to what it's like to have to execute without dropping grabs under pressure haha.

 

[dettadeus]

So my most comfortable chain grab on D3 is P Dthrow > N Fthrow, but I can't seem to get a P Bthrow properly spaced at the edge to have Nana regrab. Is there a more reliable or easy way to turn around with D3, like a Nana Bthrow?

 

[DeLux]

If you're at the edge, Bthrow is your best bet