General ICs Q&A Thread

[Roller]

@Fthrow timing. Yeah, same timing, but the spacing varies. So you have to position popo/nana a little differently (closer or farther from the one throwing) depending on the character.

Once you do get them, Diddy's safe approach options have been reduced to 0. Everything we have can be pivot grabbed...

How you know someone has been practicing with me.

 

[Rubberbandman]

It is the same timing kinda. Some characters have more frames in which you can grab.

Nope, its exactly the same framewise, its the spacing thats different because of bigger/smaller hitboxes

@Fthrow timing. Yeah, same timing, but the spacing varies. So you have to position popo/nana a little differently (closer or farther from the one throwing) depending on the character.



How you know someone has been practicing with me.

Roller, teach me how to pivot grab, mine are awful.

 

[Hylian]

Bananas! What are the most efficient way to get them/use them? I know once I have them its pretty much a free grab, but the actual process of getting them int eh first place is bothering me. i know the shield -> sh -> grab works, but I'd like to know about any other ways.

Well shielding is pretty much your best option for grabbing them depending on how close diddy is to you. Just shield and grab it as it's falling back down, or jump and z grab/nair it to grab it.

The best thing you can do with a banana is throw it at them followed by a desynch option. This obviously varies but in general you can follow this:

Diddy is on ground -> Throw banana with Popo, IB with Nana at same time and follow up. If diddy trips the IB will hit and guarantee a grab. If diddy catches it you are still in an advantaged position following your IB. If they throw it back just catch it with nair or shield it or roll forward and grab them as your IB hits them.

Diddy is in the air -> Throw banana down with popo, blizzard with nana at same time so that you are in the air with popo free to act while nana is blizzarding. This is great for free pop-ups for uair, amazing zoning, and countering diddys side-b.

Diddy is on a platform -> You have a lot of choices here. If you are under I like this throwing the nana down as I jump and nairing them at low %s for the IB reset grab. If they are at higher I throw the nana at them from under and follow up with whatever works. If you aren't under them it's probably better to just hold on to the banana, or do the above option so it's in your control.

 

[Smasher89]

Havent read or written anything here in a while, since I havent been playing since the ban of MK.

Reading that some of you have a problem with toonlink, i played that matchup and think I figured it out when I did play.
He is slow in the air but usually has his bombs available that can be hard to deal with in a good way, so what was needed as in other matchups was a way to get grabs.
The only needed oppoturnity that seemed to happen was when he landed after jumping and throwing bombs.So what you´ll need is a way to control their landing (where they land, how much space they get control of etc) , check for their reaction, and when you have those things in mind, you can just grab him/punish his landings>KO him and repeat. He shouldnt even get time to use his boomerang or other stuff IMO.

 

[Roller]

If you have not played MJG or KT, you have not actually played a toon link.

 

[B0NK]

*or J ash

 

[DeLux]

Well shielding is pretty much your best option for grabbing them depending on how close diddy is to you. Just shield and grab it as it's falling back down, or jump and z grab/nair it to grab it.

The best thing you can do with a banana is throw it at them followed by a desynch option. This obviously varies but in general you can follow this:

Diddy is on ground -> Throw banana with Popo, IB with Nana at same time and follow up. If diddy trips the IB will hit and guarantee a grab. If diddy catches it you are still in an advantaged position following your IB. If they throw it back just catch it with nair or shield it or roll forward and grab them as your IB hits them.

Diddy is in the air -> Throw banana down with popo, blizzard with nana at same time so that you are in the air with popo free to act while nana is blizzarding. This is great for free pop-ups for uair, amazing zoning, and countering diddys side-b.

Diddy is on a platform -> You have a lot of choices here. If you are under I like this throwing the nana down as I jump and nairing them at low %s for the IB reset grab. If they are at higher I throw the nana at them from under and follow up with whatever works. If you aren't under them it's probably better to just hold on to the banana, or do the above option so it's in your control.

Amazing Post. Seriously, I had been having issues with super campy diddy play lately (since super aggro Diddy play let's you out item gimmick them), and the last two options really helped.

Havent read or written anything here in a while, since I havent been playing since the ban of MK.

Reading that some of you have a problem with toonlink, i played that matchup and think I figured it out when I did play.
He is slow in the air but usually has his bombs available that can be hard to deal with in a good way, so what was needed as in other matchups was a way to get grabs.
The only needed oppoturnity that seemed to happen was when he landed after jumping and throwing bombs.So what you´ll need is a way to control their landing (where they land, how much space they get control of etc) , check for their reaction, and when you have those things in mind, you can just grab him/punish his landings>KO him and repeat. He shouldnt even get time to use his boomerang or other stuff IMO.

I am now convinced that the matchup went from -3 > -2.

If you have not played MJG or KT, you have not actually played a toon link.

Lately MJG has been looking pretty vulnerable against some ICs. Although he and I have been drilling a bunch for the last week or so, so that might change again and order might be restored.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

what is the easiest cg (not hobble) to do on snake?

Right now I do Popo > Dthrow > Nana Regrab > Nana Fthrow > Popo Regrab> Repeat

but I mess this up and I feel like its less the issue of timing. I was thinking maybe I was having spacing issues with this.

I also try to do the Popo Fthrow> Nana Regrab> Nana Bthrow> Popo Regrab> Repeat

I don't think its much of a spacing issue here. Here I see me having timing problems and its mainly on the Popo Fthrow> Nana Regrab.

Any tips are greatly appreciated.

I need to know this because I'm not always going to get play on a flat stage that will let me hobble, and I face a really good snake at my school, this dude is smart, so when I get the grab I don't want to loose it untill I can kill snake with in the grab.

PS: if u can chain grab with ur hands shivering cold not only are you a real ICE climbers main but I salute you. Cause.........Its like really freaking difficult to cg with cold hands.

 

[Smoom77]

It's definitely hard with cold hands ;-;

I do bthrow-dthrow. It took freaking years of practice to get it, but I got it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It took you YEARS to get it? O_O

 

[Smoom77]

I used ice climbers since brawl came out. I got it down in march of last year

 

[Grim Tuesday]

How frequently do you drop grabs?

Cause I've only used ICs for a few months and I can CG light characters almost perfectly.

 

[-LzR-]

Light characters are damn easy if you use the crappy CG that allows tripping. I rarely drop those.
Snake is one of the hardest to chaingrab. It matters a lot.

 

[Smoom77]

I got down most characters down quickly, but weird characters like ddd, snake, Wario took me a long time. I'm rusty right now because I have no wii to practice with, but if I took an hour to refresh, Im sure I'll be fine.

 

[-LzR-]

Most lightweights are really easy. You just press the direction and then almost instantly afterwards and bam regrab.

 

[KoozyK]

so why does nana do her own thing whenever i throw the character back to her sometimes? like she'll be to far away or will do something random sometimes.

 

[-LzR-]

If she is out of the sync range she will be uncontrollable. Don't let her go to far away.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Cold hands actually made my ICs better

I'm not even trying to make a pun, I'm being ****ing serious.

Crazy ****

 

[F A N G]

What causes Blizzard to freeze my opponent sometime and not at others?

As far as I can tell, low percents = no freeze. High percents freezes unless at the tip.

 

[Roller]

Cold hands actually made my ICs better

I'm not even trying to make a pun, I'm being ****ing serious.

Crazy ****

...****. I knew people would catch on to Michigan's strategies before long.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Cold hands actually made my ICs better

I'm not even trying to make a pun, I'm being ****ing serious.

Crazy ****

I seriously cannot even function with cold hands. Even just a basic desynch is a huge task.

What causes Blizzard to freeze my opponent sometime and not at others?

As far as I can tell, low percents = no freeze. High percents freezes unless at the tip.

The percent and how close you are are the factors for Blizzard freeze effect.

 

[-LzR-]

On that subject, is the freezing effect of any use at all?

 

[Sieguest]

Depends on where it freezes, if it freezes on the outside then there really isn't much benefit besides preventing your opponent from trying to counterattack. If they're closer in and get frozen you get a good position advantage for a uair.

 

[-LzR-]

All right then. Now when should I use desynch Bliz and when not? I don't really know so I just use it when I have time to do it

 

[Sieguest]

I think it works best if you start with desynch blizz when you're about "mid-range" (can't think of a better way to say that, calling 3:00 AM johns). And you should be wary of characters who have projectiles that can go through blizzard (Projectiles without a targetbox e.g. Turnips, Boomerang, Arrow, Laser, etc.).

 

[Roller]

Yeah, don't stay in a blizzard wall, or desynched blizzard approach vs a character with a projectile that goes through it.

 

[-LzR-]

Today was one of those days where I could use IC really well and was really good with chaingrabs regardless of the character I was against. And probably tomorrow I am unable to do them again
How do I deal with Lucario? If he gets in he seems to rack up some sick damage and it's hard to recover against him

 

[B0NK]

What do you mean hard to recover? Hard to get off the ledge, sure, but for recovering he has to commit so just pay attention to what option he's committing to. IC's recovery isn't one-dimensional lol.

The match-up requires you to never drop your CGs, and a strategy is to keep him at around 30-50% then only kill with CGs. It's not the only strategy, but a strong one, especially if you don't have the lead. Makes it tough for him to kill you =P

 

[Rubberbandman]

All right then. Now when should I use desynch Bliz and when not? I don't really know so I just use it when I have time to do it

Blizzard is like, my favorite move. Set it up right and you can force the opponent into extremely bad 50-50's.

You really need to continuously use it in friendlies to get a feel for what "mid-range" is and the best timings for it is because it varies from character to character.

Don't commit to standard alternating blizzard walls, cause they suck.

And don't do a "passive blizzard" vs projectile characters too much, cause they get almost nothing accomplished that ice blocks don't do better.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah, I generally use desynch Blizz to force them to jump over it where I can possibly do an uair or bair or something. And it sometimes combos into usmash too.

So the basic Blizzard after Blizzard after Blizzard is bad? Why so?

 

[Rubberbandman]

Its passively, its giving people a lot of options to go around.

Overall, it causes you to just auto pilot, and its really hard to break it away safely without messing up your thought process imo.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

How do you beat Olimar's Fair?

 

[Rubberbandman]

Play Metaknight.

 

[-LzR-]

Esam don't mess my questions T_T

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Mess your questions? I'm being super serious since Nietono ****ed me up with pretty much only fairs.

 

[Hylian]

Fair is really hard to beat...really you just want to try and powershield it with only popo and then like nair or grab or something lol.

 

[-LzR-]

Oh, sorry, it just seemed weird for someone like you to ask such thing

 

[Aefice]

whats ic's safest edge recovery options?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

100% depends on the situation and what you expect your opponent to do.

 

[DeLux]

after doing a substantial amount of testing at Apex, I am of the opinion ICs should belay plank more in certain bad matchups