General ICs Q&A Thread

[-LzR-]

Yeah now that I think about it, I only use uair. When I get to SoPo, I go really aerial and actually do better than with the 2 >_>

I guess that's my problem with IC...

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Where can I find Ice Climbers frame data?

 

[Rubberbandman]

nair is like the best move in the game, def use it more. in fact all of our aerials are amazing, even fair/dair in certain (very specific) situations.

Fair is harder to hit off than dair imo.

Yeah now that I think about it, I only use uair. When I get to SoPo, I go really aerial and actually do better than with the 2 >_>

I guess that's my problem with IC...

Nair is godlike. Better than Uair in some situations because no one ever expects it anymore.

Plus it sets up grab opportunities at low percents unlike Uair. (Unless you do...nah...)

 

[DeLux]

^ Nair also shield pokes. If they platform camp in shield on BF or SV, I will Uair first for the disjoint, then follow up with a nair for shield poking properties.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I love Nair especially when they're partially desynched. It scares the **** out of people more than Up air at times because like it was said earlier, people don't really expect it. When you think of fighting ICs you think of mainly Ice Blocks, Blizzards, Up-airs, Back-airs and of course..grabs. But ICs have a pretty solid move arsenal across the board.

 

[Roller]

Yo, somebody get@me with this ICs skype chat.

 

[Exceladon City]

Yo, somebody get@me with this ICs skype chat.

^this.

10skypes

 

[DeLux]

I think the ICIA is a pretty exclusive group. You guys may or may not make the cut for such an elite group.

Spoiler

I didn't

 

[EverAlert]

lol lux, you joker.

 

[Rubberbandman]

You did, you just left out because you said you wanted to be on your own for a while and never wanted to come back.

Excel, you added me, said a sentence and never said anything back.

 

[DeLux]

Oh, yea, that's what happened.
To be fair, I did it because I wanted to be more like Hylian. Or Lain. Or (insert top tier IC player here).

In my defense, I've been VERY productive since leaving lol

 

[Sieguest]

Lol Lux retired from the ICIA. But kept the sunglasses.

Need to change the title of it though. It's MLK day. :3

 

[Smoom77]

Can I join?

btw i think bair is way good. Bair oos is amazing, i love it so much. almost as much as yugioh

 

[Exceladon City]

Sorry about that Enda. I didn't really know what to talk about...

 

[-LzR-]

I always use blizzard when possible and I also notice a barely do anything OoS. I play really stupid with my IC, but still do pretty well with them. Small improvements and I am da Bess :D

If I can get videos, does anyone critique them around here?

 

[ch33s3]

I always use blizzard when possible and I also notice a barely do anything OoS. I play really stupid with my IC, but still do pretty well with them. Small improvements and I am da Bess :D

If I can get videos, does anyone critique them around here?

Hylian, a few others, and I, usually do.

 

[-LzR-]

All right that would be awesome to get advice from the pros.

Anyways, I main MK, people insist that I pocket IC as they say I am "good" with them while all I can do is desynch and CG, but other than that I suck with them.

Anyways, is it actually worth it?

IMO it's kinda nice as no matter what the stage, I ****. MK ***** on dynamic stages and IC ***** on static stages.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Okay guys I have a question: What do you guys do to keep/improve your tech skill with ICs. Do you spend a certain amount of time practicing CGs and desynchs on command? Are there other exercises you use? I feel like my tech skill is my weakest part of my game so I wish to improve it.

 

[-LzR-]

Practice, practice, practice. At least 30 minutes every day or you might get inconsistent.
Practice the CG first on a lightweight character that you play the most. Learn at least 5 different methods of desynch and focus on those so you can use them in actual game when you need to.

It's that simple, practice more and more, make a challenge out of it: How many times you can cg a character in a row? How much % can you do without fail? How fast you can do it? Anything like that makes it actually fun :D

 

[DeLux]

I've been doing about 2 hours of practice a day with this:

5 minute warm up going through my core desync group: DeLux, RIDSCSR, Hylian, Kakera Dash Back, Squall, Belay, SOME hitlag (I have a few more I need to incorporate and need to refine like the hitlag setups but I'm going to wait until after tourney time to add them to the repetoire)
60 minutes Training Mode, Place Level 9 Wario/JPuff/MK/ whoever I want in terms of match up CPU on Attack, to practice getting off desyncs against a hard aggro CPU under pressure and understanding spacing of said desyncs. Switching stages between the universal stage list every 5 mins or so.
40 mins of CG practice. VS. mode random characters CG up to 300% until they die on accident or I get to 300.
15 mins of the important or hard CGs exclusively. My list is: (MK, Snake, Lucas, TL, Olimar, Rob, Lucario, PT)

 

[Exceladon City]

I've been doing about 2 hours of practice a day with this:

5 minute warm up going through my core desync group: DeLux, RIDSCSR, Hylian, Kakera Dash Back, Squall, Belay, SOME hitlag (I have a few more I need to incorporate and need to refine like the hitlag setups but I'm going to wait until after tourney time to add them to the repetoire)
60 minutes Training Mode, Place Level 9 Wario/JPuff/MK CPU on Attack, to practice getting off CPUs under pressure and understanding spacing of said desyncs. Switching stages between the universal stage list every 5 mins or so.
40 mins of CG practice. VS. mode random characters CG up to 300% until they die on accident or I get to 300.
15 mins of the important or hard CGs exclusively. My list is: (MK, Snake, Lucas, TL, Olimar, Rob, Lucario, PT)

Lux with this strenuous workout plan.

I'm a slacker.

As far as desyncs go, I work on my SND, Hylian and a few others. I do practice CGs often though. I'm more or less focused on getting them to the 130-150 range as opposed to 300.

These are the characters I practice CGing regularly:













I also work on my Blizzard/Desync mix-ups and well as Blizzard spacing. Which is super important for D3, DK, Marth, MK, Diddy and Olimar.

I don't spend a set amount of time practicing. I just do it until I get bored and switch to another character.

 

[Roller]

I don't get to practice my cgs really (except at the multiple smashfests we have each week.) as I don't have a non-hd tv in my dorm room.

However during breaks I practice for over an hour each day vs random (my random has zss and those chars included)
and also spend time vs snake and characters I face commonly. Such as olimar, sheik, mk, etc.

I also try to learn something new each break. Whether it is something useful, such as a desynch I didn't use before; or something lulzy, like grab release->upB kill.

Keeps the character interesting for me.

I almost never practice desynchs though on my own time after I learn them. I don't really feel like I need to.

 

[-LzR-]

I can CG DK, MK, G&W, Falco, Olimar and I think Diddy "consistently" to kill %.

Those are also the most important MUs for my IC.

I try to keep practicing at least a little every day.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I've been doing about 2 hours of practice a day with this:

5 minute warm up going through my core desync group: DeLux, RIDSCSR, Hylian, Kakera Dash Back, Squall, Belay, SOME hitlag (I have a few more I need to incorporate and need to refine like the hitlag setups but I'm going to wait until after tourney time to add them to the repetoire)
60 minutes Training Mode, Place Level 9 Wario/JPuff/MK/ whoever I want in terms of match up CPU on Attack, to practice getting off desyncs against a hard aggro CPU under pressure and understanding spacing of said desyncs. Switching stages between the universal stage list every 5 mins or so.
40 mins of CG practice. VS. mode random characters CG up to 300% until they die on accident or I get to 300.
15 mins of the important or hard CGs exclusively. My list is: (MK, Snake, Lucas, TL, Olimar, Rob, Lucario, PT)

So extensive...I like it. I'm trying to find a good workout plan for me at the moment but there is still some stuff I need to learn. I know the basics but I am really struggling on finding a group of "core" desynchs to add to my pool.

 

[Sieguest]

I don't get to practice my cgs really (except at the multiple smashfests we have each week.) as I don't have a non-hd tv in my dorm room.

I have the same problem, which is why when I practice CGs I close my eyes when I start the throws.


I don't really do any sort of regimented practice. I normally just go into training mode and practice weaving in and out of synced and desynced play and making sure to make my desyncing "smooth" for lack of better wording. I also spend some time on CGs, but not a lot. Everything else I just get from playing a lot of people.... (on wifi that is x_x)

 

[Smoom77]

Lux...how do you have that much time? I rarely play brawl during the week

i just wanted to use

 

[DeLux]

Sleep less?

It's not ever all in one sitting. Like when I wake up, I'll get 15 minutes in before work. Or during the day, I'll get in another 30 between shifts. And then usually a solid hour+ before I go to bed.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Hmm I'm still having issues understanding the mechanics of the Standing Nana Derivative.

While standing, smoothly move the Control Stick to halfway between center and the back rim (the rim behind you), then snap the Control Stick in a dashing motion to the forward rim (the side you were originally facing), and input any move during the second motion (typically holding Attack).

So I have to hold attack while attempting to perform it and then depending on what I press I end up with

SuperGrab
SND (Late Z)
Nana dashgrabs, Popo rolls forward
A relatively unpunishable form of grabbing that attempts to put the opponent in the worst possible position. Done correctly, any action they take is punishable, with the exception of rolling into Nana (which puts them out of range for their own follow-up). However, characters with long-lasting, double-sided moves (such as R.O.B.'s DSmash) can hit you out of this.

Ice Storm
SND (Down) → Down/Forward and Special
Popo Blizzards, Nana Squalls
An excellent offensive-defensive tactic that outputs decent damage while protecting the Climbers, and comboes into aerials and grabs depending on DI.

FSmash Trap
SND (Hold Late Attack)
Nana charges an FSmash, Popo FTilts
A camping setup that allows Popo many more options while being backed by a fully charged FSmash. Most notably leads into Nana Charge Deception (2.4).

Reverse FSmash Trap
SND (Hold Early Attack)
Nana charges a reverse FSmash, Popo reverse Jabs
Has the same connotations of camping and pressure as the FSmash Trap, but performed facing the opposite direction.

USmash Trap
SND (Up) → Hold Attack
Nana charges an USmash, Popo UTilts
With similar connotations of camping and pressure, this is nonetheless a much more offensively viable version of the FSmash Trap. While it of course leads into Nana Charge Deception (2.4), it also acts as an effective anti-air strategy and sets up comboes, most notably Popo Utilt → Nana USmash → Smash-Cancelled Belay.

B-Sync
SND (Early NSpecial)
Popo Ice Shots (direction depending on timing), Nana short-dashes
The fastest version of the SND and one of the fastest desynchs in the game, faster even than Pivot (NSpecial). Although nothing else about it is special, its speed makes it perfect for pure desynching.

Taunt Trap
SND (Taunt)
Popo Taunts, Nana short-dashes
The amazingness of Ice Climbers' taunts leaves the opponent bewildered, allowing for a free follow-up of Nana's own bewildered choosing!

DSmash Protector
SND (Dashdance) → CStick Down and Grab
Popo reverse-dashgrabs, Nana charges a DSmash
Most notably leads into Nana Charge Deception (2.4), but is also useful in that the DSmash can be Smash-Cancelled.

Shield Roll
SND (Shield)
Popo Shields, Nana Rolls (direction depending on timing)
Moderately useful for both desynching and positioning simultaneously, but comparatively useless to other SND derivatives.

Dash Spacer
SND (Very Late Attack)
Popo FTilts, Nana Dash Attacks
A decently-ranged approach that keeps Popo safe while allowing for follow-ups from the Dash Attack.

SUPER AWESOME SPECIAL TAUNT
SND (Forward) → Forward/Down (Hold Until Stop) → FTaunt
Popo and Nana cross hammers while taunting
The opponent dies.

One of these? Or do I not have to hold attack and I get different effects? Ugh this is all very new to me lol I just dont want to be a one trick ICs.

 

[Smoom77]

I have to get up at 5 so I have to go to bed at 10

 

[Smoom77]

Well for SND it doesn't really matter if you hold attack. Personally I just do iceblock after you're desynced. Maybe a blizzard. I don't even know what happens when you hold attack lol.

 

[DeLux]

Hmm I'm still having issues understanding the mechanics of the Standing Nana Derivative.

One of these? Or do I not have to hold attack and I get different effects? Ugh this is all very new to me lol I just dont want to be a one trick ICs.

Ok. I could sit and write a big long technical explanation behind the SND and exactly why it works and how you can manipulate it. But I'll just keep it simple because I'm starting to realize nobody likes reading what I write.

When you do the rock back and forth motion, Popo will spin while Nana will make a Dashing motion towards Popo (for the most part, there are was to make her dash in front of but that's another thing). Since Nana is in dash animation, she is barred from doing certain actions. So if you were to immediately input a special, only Popo can do it, because you have a 22 frame window before IASA on Nana.

So look for Popo spinning and Nana Dashing. And then do that thing the Legend of EA taught you in the desync thread

I have to get up at 5 so I have to go to bed at 10

To be fair, it also helps my friends and girl have been out of town for winter break and everyone bails on KU during the winter. No distractions lol. Just Brawl.

 

[Sieguest]

I don't believe you write Lux.... I believe you type it up and then post it.


Also I read what you post. o.o

 

[DeLux]

I don't believe you write Lux.... I believe you type it up and then post it.


Also I read what you post. o.o

Yes, but DO YOU LIKE IT?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

^ I totally get it now! Thanks Lux. Now I just need to implement these into my game. There's a lot to learn about ICs but I'm having a blast learning. I've been wanting to play ICs in tournament ever since the first time I saw Lain play them at a tournament on 1/31/09. But I thought I would suck at them so I didnt try them but now its all making sense

 

[Smoom77]

You're still on winter break? ;-;

 

[Sieguest]

Yes, but DO YOU LIKE IT?

If I didn't like it do you think I would spend all of that time reading it? o.o

 

[DeLux]

^ I totally get it now! Thanks Lux. Now I just need to implement these into my game. There's a lot to learn about ICs but I'm having a blast learning. I've been wanting to play ICs in tournament ever since the first time I saw Lain play them at a tournament on 1/31/09. But I thought I would suck at them so I didnt try them but now its all making sense

This is probably going to spark a huge debate among everyone, but the more I think about it, the less I like the SND as a desyncing agent. In my opinion, I use it when I have no space but am in a situation where I NEED to be desynced. I've been recently using it as a last resort since it has the lowest spacing requirement and is the most compact of any of the desyncs. And I also use it as a edge pressure technique. Of the desyncs I use, it is probably the most situational at least in terms of getting the benefits out of what it was "designed" for.

You're still on winter break? ;-;

Yeah, school doesn't start here until the end of the week.

If I didn't like it do you think I would spend all of that time reading it? o.o

You are one of the few I imagine lol

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

If anything using it for Desynched Ice Block shots is pretty legitimate seeing as how fast it is. I'd probably play around with it some more though and see what happens.

 

[DeLux]

Why do people do desync IBs?

(outside of matchup like the snake matchup to mess up grenade cooking)

*this isn't a troll question. Being serious

 

[Smoom77]

Force an approach if its like Diddy or Luigi or something lol. Idk. It just works sometimes