General ICs Q&A Thread

[DeLux]

anyone have tips for using nanas with de-sync against DDK?

Learn the Item desyncs (usually they require instadropping or jump cancelling)
Play with a custom button map so that you can hold down the attack the entire game (it let's you fsmash while holding items)

If you hold down attack and DSC, you also do a nifty desync not listed in the desync page.

 

[Orion*]

what does dsc stand for?

 

[Smoom77]

dashing shield grab

 

[DeLux]

dashing shield grab

Dash Shield Cancel*

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286235

Grabbing is one of many options that you do out of it.

 

[Zigsta]

Who do you guys personally hate fighting more: Wario or Lucario?

 

[EverAlert]

Umm... Wario.

Lucario is easy mode.

 

[Smoom77]

Wario!!!!!!!!!

 

[toobusytocare]

Lucario

Wario is easy mode

Ive never not 2-3 stocked a wario in a tourney set

 

[Blissard]

Should I learn all of the IC desyncs first, or their CGs?

 

[Rubberbandman]

At this point, its whatever you want really. I'd say CGs, then desynchs. It really matters how much technique you wish to incorporate into your game plan.

Like (just judging by your olimar char) you probably want to play more straight forward and just get the job done.

 

[EverAlert]

Yeah, CGs first for sure. It's perfectly possible to play effectively without desynching, but ICs really, really need those CGs to kill a lot of the time. You'll also appreciate their moves better and will develop a naturally **** Sopo if you focus on using their moves synced first.

 

[F-Tier Player]

When I try the bthrow to fthrow cg, like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZm-En-8tSA

I find that nana slides too far away from me and the cg fails, is there a way to keep this from happening?

 

[DeLux]

When I try the bthrow to fthrow cg, like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZm-En-8tSA

I find that nana slides too far away from me and the cg fails, is there a way to keep this from happening?

All kinds of frame data that I'll post in the CG thread when I get bored and actually test it.



TLDR: You are hitting grab too late on your bthrow transfer. This causes nana to dash grab instead of pivot grab.

 

[F-Tier Player]

Lol, I know weight also factors into the timing, but the bthrow>fthrow cg works for all characters right?

 

[Rubberbandman]

yes, all chain grabs work on all characters.

 

[J00sh]

yes, all chain grabs work on all characters.

'cept for hobble chains you mean.

 

[Rubberbandman]

I never said hobbling, because it isn't viable in most cases and is very strict.

 

[toobusytocare]

hobbling is viable vs heavies

you probably meant vs light characters, but im just saying it just because

 

[Smoom77]

I agree. Smash hobbling is only viable against heavies because you can buffer a dthrow after you regrab.

 

[GimR]

I agree. Smash hobbling is only viable against heavies because you can buffer a dthrow after you regrab.

It's also good when nana is far away from you and you're sopo chain grabbing. When she runs up behing you, hobble, and then do the normal chain grab

 

[Smoom77]

Oh yeah I saw you do that against Larry I think.

 

[Rubberbandman]

hobbling is viable vs heavies

you probably meant vs light characters, but im just saying it just because

Well seeing as

-You can mash out before 75%
-It doesnt work whatsoever on upwards slopes.
- Opponent can SDI away.
- Near ledges, you're ****ed completely becauseyou're opponent can push you off with their own hurtbox (midweights/heavies only)

and other stuff, Im just trying to make a point.

/back to work

 

[GimR]

opponents can't mash out of hobbling if you side taunt with Nana after Popo ice blocks since her animation will end right after popo grabs and she won't buffer a grab. People think I'm taunting them when I'm really just making it so they can't mash

 

[Rubberbandman]

Ah, thats nice to know, and yeah, just say you're taunting them like a bawse. :D

 

[toobusytocare]

wait i dont get it...

 

[EpixAura]

Question:
When doing the back throw chaingrab, when I throw to Nana, she sometimes shields or rolls instead of grabs.
I am practicing on lightweight characters, and I try to press back+z simultaneously.

 

[Sieguest]

I am practicing on lightweight characters, and I try to press back+z simultaneously.

There lies your problem. Don't move the control stick and press the z button at the same time. That's what causes Nana to roll. The inputs are close together but they're not simultaneous.

 

[EpixAura]

I see. What timing should I use, then. Z first? Or back? What should be the time frame between them?

 

[Sieguest]

You have to input the throw first before you press grab again. So move the control stick back first and then press Z.
The timing is pretty close. Right after you move the control stick back press the Z button.

 

[-LzR-]

What I do with Bthrow is I slide the stick in an accelerating motion. First somewhat slow then from the middle I move it faster to the edge and the press Z. Don't mash the stick or you might mess up with dashing or something. I don't main IC so I maybe wrong. So IC players please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Teh-Shlurpie]

What I do with Bthrow is I slide the stick in an accelerating motion. First somewhat slow then from the middle I move it faster to the edge and the press Z. Don't mash the stick or you might mess up with dashing or something. I don't main IC so I maybe wrong. So IC players please correct me if I am wrong.

i would say this is true, you're more moving the stick to the end instead of smashing it to the end, kind of how you tilt

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah, except I do it in an accelerating method, from slow to fast, but I guess that is player specific.

 

[DeLux]

Reserved to clarify backthrow errors/misconceptions after I get a chance to do more frame testing. I'm like 95% certain that the advice given above is incorrect. But I'd like to do more testing for a couple days before I post my results in this thread and the CG guide.

 

[-LzR-]

Using the method I mentioned above, I can do about 100 backthrows without messing up. Dthrows are the ones I mess up sometimes.

 

[Rubberbandman]

I think its that we explain stuff wrong instead of saying to people "Practice." If you practice it enough you'll learn what you need to do at your own pace.

 

[DeLux]

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about in this case. Just because you don't mess up doesn't mean it's ideal. Effective does not equal ideal. I'm not saying to change what you're doing. I'm just saying that if someone tried to emulate what you're saying, the loss in translation might push them into the area of making mistakes.

I've already figured out the ideal way to space a dthrow and fthrow. I've been testing extensively for the ideal way to space a bthrow cg transfer. It's more complicated than those two because you have to worry about the flip sync mechanics.

Note: If you are missing on dthrows, it is more likely an issue of SPACING and NOT TIMING. Frame tested truth. The spacing is super precise on a dthrow especially at high percents. I did a write up about it in the CG thread.

 

[Teh-Shlurpie]

Lux too good with dem details

 

[Teh Future]

lux is right a lot of people mess up CGs because they don't pay attention to where popo/nana are in relation to each other. Like if you dash grab a lightweight and immediately try to bthrow it might not work bc nana will end up too far in front of popo from the dash grab

 

[-LzR-]

I know the spacing thing about dthrow, I take a step before regrabbing. The timing is just a lot tighter for me than in bthrow, but I think it's kinda hard to tell anyone what the timing is, instead I managed to learn it with a lot of practice like pretty much all of us.

 

[DeLux]

FYI everyone -

Based on preliminary testing: At the highest percent (300%), the window for a hard turned bthrow transfer is up to 3 frames depending on spacing. This changes from character to character though, and might be as low as two, but I haven't tested everyone yet. The window for a dthrow is 2 frames. That is the maximum for EVERY character frame tested. That's 1.5x easier for a bthrow compared to a dthrow.

ALSO, the spacing is MUCH more specific for a dthrow compared to bthrow. Why? The bthrow has a pivot grab involved, where the dthrow is a standing grab. Pivot grabs range buys you one more frame of window time on average. At the same time, the spacing on fthrow is also MUCH more forgiving on a fthrow compared to the dthrow. The more I test, the more I see that the buffered bthrow > fthrow is FAR superior to bthrow > dthrow.

I know the spacing thing about dthrow, I take a step before regrabbing..

I'm actually bugging EA to come up with the pictures of the spacing window for a dthrow. Based on testing, the spacing window is actually smaller than the measuring unit of an IC steps. It is specific to I THINK 4 frames of controlstick input. Which is pretty crazy to account for that and the two frame timing window at the same time.