General ICs Q&A Thread

[DeLux]

Man, as of today, I can't get off work to go. It's a Saturday morning shift, and nobody wants to cover a Saturday morning shift. You guys should come out to the local we're having the week after in KCK just for me

In the meantime, I'll see what I can do. But I'm a between a strong no and a weak maybe as of now.

 

[Teh Future]

lux imma try to come to finos tourney but i cant drive so we will see....

if i do come wee will play for sure though

 

[Smoom77]

Too drunk?

 

[Teh Future]

umm no only time i posted on his board when drinking was when i said you should beat illmatic lol

 

[Smoom77]

I thought you were drunk all the time...

 

[sauc3]

lol, the wolf part was mostly a joke about how bad wolf is and how easy the matchup is, obviously if you have a 0-death use it, same goes for snake.

i dont think grenadewise is redundant since there are mediocre snakes that use grenades unwisely, misunderstanding perhaps?

as for when you're being camped, throwing grenades back technically falls under waiting for an opening, but it really only gets you so far. A smart snake is going to realize this and clip them. going aggro will get you *****, snakes easy seperate your ics with grenades and ftilt, and punish harder than any other character, but if you approach wisely, like say, you notice they roll back or spot dodge with grenade whenever you approach, then its much safer and better to be patient and realize this, and punish accordingly, as opposed to aggro. camping them back isn't a bad idea and with their dsg its totally valid, but doesn't that fall under patience and waiting for an opening. saying im wrong then agreeing with me seems a bit contradictory. unless you're trying to outcamp them all together, in which case, good luck, or rather, good loss, since there is no luck? its just a saying...

 

[Teh Future]

what are we even talking about im lost.

imma just play this game and when i do dumb things not do them again.

lol

 

[DeLux]

lux imma try to come to finos tourney but i cant drive so we will see....

if i do come wee will play for sure though

Awesome dude. Hopefully we can find a free setup and I can sitdown and show you some of the new tricks I've been coming up with through frame data and testing.

lol, the wolf part was mostly a joke about how bad wolf is and how easy the matchup is, obviously if you have a 0-death use it, same goes for snake.

i dont think grenadewise is redundant since there are mediocre snakes that use grenades unwisely, misunderstanding perhaps?

as for when you're being camped, throwing grenades back technically falls under waiting for an opening, but it really only gets you so far. A smart snake is going to realize this and clip them. going aggro will get you *****, snakes easy seperate your ics with grenades and ftilt, and punish harder than any other character, but if you approach wisely, like say, you notice they roll back or spot dodge with grenade whenever you approach, then its much safer and better to be patient and realize this, and punish accordingly, as opposed to aggro. camping them back isn't a bad idea and with their dsg its totally valid, but doesn't that fall under patience and waiting for an opening. saying im wrong then agreeing with me seems a bit contradictory. unless you're trying to outcamp them all together, in which case, good luck, or rather, good loss, since there is no luck? its just a saying...

You have GOT to be kidding. Seriously, I am done trying to help out with match ups as of now. This is terrible on so many levels.

Just to clarify, you seem to not understand the DSC/G stuff based on the context you used it in.

 

[GimR]

Ice climbers Q&A thread starting to get a little elitist :/

 

[DeLux]

No, I just don't want to have to deal with arguing over subjective stuff. It isn't really worth the time or effort if the argument isn't of substance and it's purely a definition argument.

Obviously I'm going to continue to share any of the research that I'll continue to do and the discoveries that come with it. But that should usually be limited to technical and situational things, and not something as broad and subjective as a general character match up.

 

[B0NK]

No

Ye s

 

[Rubberbandman]

When it comes to mu discussions, I'll be an elitist prick if I have to. There is never looking at what the character can do anymore, it just the players, and who beat who that one time.

If you really want to know what I think the MU is, then ask me. I'll say why. But other than that I'm not dealing with it.

 

[sauc3]

You have GOT to be kidding. Seriously, I am done trying to help out with match ups as of now. This is terrible on so many levels.

Just to clarify, you seem to not understand the DSC/G stuff based on the context you used it in.

you seem like a very angry person, and I don't know why...

anyways, I'll be happy to play your snake or any snake with my strats and prove they work. I'll be at pound 5, for melee, but i still friendly in brawl, although i find most people take it way to seriously to call it a friendly. At apex I had a lucario try and plank me and time me out when i was up 2 stocks... in a friendly, i was confused to say the least,

 

[TommyGreenShirt]

lets kick some ice

 

[00-Zero]

^ lololol
I agree whole-heartedly with this guy

 

[Seagull Joe]

SeagullMan in MD/VA, also possibly Xzax.

Bro, why do you keep bringing up Wario? No one said **** about him. =/

We've never versed though to be honest.

What good wolf main is there really? I don't know of any tbh.

Like me, Kain, JJwolf, and Choice know the ice climber matchups. I don't know other Wolf's that know the matchup..

im not sure what the point of this post is. you said yourself you have only played against random wolfs.

i dont think "random wolf mains" should pose a problem to any good ic player because they will get grabbed.

Indeed, random Wolf's get grabbed because they're dumb.

yeah like when people theory craft wolf they neglact his rediculous airspeed (comparable to warios)

same goes for wario too, especially here
most of you think ICs beat out wario because "LOL pivots grabs" and "ROFL uair and nairs"
but in reality its just not true

Yeah, Wolf is very fast in the air and he can run around to avoid easily.

too much theorycraft

wolf is dumb, no idea what to do and pretty sure only cat that does is lain but he doesnt post.

wolfs air speed is ******** and he can basically teleport around anything you do and bair xD

Meep and Gimr have both played me ALOT. They have better ideas on what to do. Last time I played Gimr in friendlies I won like 2-1 last hit on YI. Meep and I played and I lost 1-2 last time we played. These were friendlies though so I don't know if I can base that off understanding the matchup better.

You really don't have to approach laser camping. You can IB camp at a positive trade so there really isn't any reason to approach. Wolf's solo dthrow is relatively high and his lack of recovery options makes separation not that huge of an issue (ie a wolf needs to dair spike nana for the gimp, but that leaves him vulnerable to all the latch guarding in the world. At the same time, if you are separated and get a grab, you can solo dthrow him until the cows and nana come home and then cg to death).

Shield grab is your friend. If you condition the wolf correctly, they will either never laser camp or if they do, you can IB chase the laser/IB cancelling into a grab. If you condition them to never laser, DSG is your friend if you HAVE to approach. However, given that Wolf has very limited approaching options in the match up and you CLEARLY outcamp on most levels, you ought to just sit and wait. Pivot/shield grab and punish. Oh, and uair string all day baby.

Watch out for BDACUS and Dsmash which have surprising knockback. Also, Shine really makes blizzard a bad option imo. Learn to bungie jump for gimping. All pretty basic stuff I guess. If someone disagrees help me out because I've only friendlied random wolf's and haven't played a good one in a tournament set.

You play bad Wolf's.

Wolf can also shine gimp your recovery and I did it to Meep before. Wolf can also DI the dthrow>fair spike back on stage with chinese DI.

So idk why but I'm having trouble with wolf. Idk if it's a mental block or what but I was wondering is there anything that you guys have figured out that works well when fighting wolf?
I saw the earlier threads in here talking about wolf but they wernt very helpful lol.
Thanks in advance.

Ask Meep.

Maybe these will help

• He is slower than you
• Don't focus on Chaingrabs
• When you see a shot coming, most likely they'll shoot 3 to 4 times, roll past all of them, and fsmash as soon as you can, remember the gun is kinda laggy.

I hope I helped!

Wolf is faster then Ics in the air and Wolf is not a character that stays grounded. If a laser is powershielded once then the Wolf should just stop immediately, that's what I do O_o. Anyways...Jumpshine can avoid ice climbers generally well.

Well, a Wolf will ALWAYS do this:

• Dash
• Shield
• Laser Spam

Most decent/advanced Wolf choose this way of aproaching, especially on SV/FD/ :D

EDIT: Some may go for a grab(mostly noobs), and noobish pros :3

Wrong...........

Wolf's spend a majority of time in the air and their number one used move is generally bair. You've never played a good Wolf = /. Wolf can also use Jumpshine to avoid shiz and his Usmash and Dsmash are good separators for getting nana and popo away from each other.

Generally this matchup is about 55-45 Ice climbers favor.

 

[toobusytocare]

SeagullMan in MD/VA, also possibly Xzax.


Bro, why do you keep bringing up Wario? No one said **** about him. =/

wario is awesome :3

wario wario wario wario wario wario wario wario wario wario wario wario

:D

also i agree with seagull man... lol

 

[DeLux]

You play bad Wolf's.

Wolf can also shine gimp your recovery and I did it to Meep before. Wolf can also DI the dthrow>fair spike back on stage with chinese DI.

First part probably admittedly true. And your input is appreciated. When you say shine gimp, do you mean out of squall or out of belay, or both?

However, I never advocated the fair spike as a CG finisher. I never have. I never will.

 

[Seagull Joe]

First part probably admittedly true. And your input is appreciated. When you say shine gimp, do you mean out of squall or out of belay, or both?

However, I never advocated the fair spike as a CG finisher. I never have. I never will.

Which is which?

When Ics up b, popo can be shine'd out of it and by that time nana would've grabbed the edge. Shine has invincibility.

When Ics side b, Wolf can just laser or shine to make them drop or shine spike, but like I would expect Ics to recover smart with side b. I usually don't try to beat out Ics side b recovery, but I shine gimped Meep before, though it's still hard to do.

This is a weird matchup for me still. If a Wolf screws up once then their stock is basically gone. They have the tools to avoid the grab on most stages.

I usually like to take Ice climbers to like Yi, a moving stage, or Bf. Ics are too good on Fd and Smashville lol.

wario is awesome :3

wario wario wario wario wario wario wario wario wario wario wario wario

:D

also i agree with seagull man... lol

Wario is awesome .

 

[Hylian]

*shrugs*

I 2 stocked Kain twice in tournament last weekend and I also beat Holms wolf at the same tournament. I think it's pretty easy to get grabs on wolf but if you don't know the cg and he separates you it seems a lot harder.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Which is which?

Belay = Up B
Squall = Side B

But yeah, wolf's shine has a ******** amount of invincibility frames, which lets it hit through both recoveries.

 

[Seagull Joe]

*shrugs*

I 2 stocked Kain twice in tournament last weekend and I also beat Holms wolf at the same tournament. I think it's pretty easy to get grabs on wolf but if you don't know the cg and he separates you it seems a lot harder.

I saw you went GaW 2nd round though. I watched that match and Kain shouldn't have used Fsmash at all. He played it too aggro. Fsmash has tons of lag after hitting a shield, which is why I never use it vs Ice climbers.

I don't know how Holms played this matchup.

And I still said the matchup was 55-45 Ics favor.

 

[_Kain_]

*shrugs*

I 2 stocked Kain twice in tournament last weekend and I also beat Holms wolf at the same tournament. I think it's pretty easy to get grabs on wolf but if you don't know the cg and he separates you it seems a lot harder.

You did, but I feel I didn't even play the MU like I was sposed to like I did against Lain who I did better against before you. I didn't even camp the platforms and stay in the air. I mean you beat me, but you grabbed me mostly because I was choosing dumb options when I knew I should of done something else. I always have close games with Lain, and he himself says Wolf is pretty gay. I even let you take my first stock with a grab>fair spike finish which doesn't work. Like I said I don't feel I played my best at that time. Hopefully I see you at another tourny sometime for a rematch. Overall I didn't play as gay as I should of (bair camping, fair retreating, rolling away when i whiffed an attack, platform camping) and I got grabbed cause I did something stupid (missed dsmash, messed up dacus and you grabbed me out of a dash attack). Not discredting your win, just I didn't even play close to how the MU is sposed to be played for wolf and stupid mistakes like not doing DACUS correctly or rolling away after whiffing a attack ended in me losing stocks.

 

[Hylian]

I know, Holms played it a lot better, but what I said still feels true playing against him.

 

[ch33s3]

I think Wolf loses VERY badly to ICs. That being said, though, wolf WILL gimp Nana on you early, and he will gimp you and get outright kills pretty early, so if you don't know what you're doing, you will lose. As far as experience, I played choice at MLG, and god**** that was hard, and I'm pretty sure he was outplaying me, but I won anyway. The matchup is BAD.

 

[_Kain_]

I hate IC's i lost to two in bracket...I HATE EM!!!

 

[Teh Future]

^SHUT UP wolf is so gay i hate it

 

[Ishiey]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244329

Wolf outspeeds ICs in terms of mobility. All the time.

Just sayin'. Running away and spacing back air for the future of Wolf's metagame lol

 

[~ Gheb ~]

All players of every character think they beat Wolf badly. Why isn't he E-Tier yet?

 

[EverAlert]

Just sayin'. Running away and spacing back air for the future of Wolf's metagame lol

LOL tedeth has been doing this for years, enjoy catching up to the australia metagame lollll.

Wolf is so much better than people give credit for.

 

[Rubberbandman]

I think wolf has some good ****, no one can just use it right.

Like us.

 

[Teh Future]

i have a question.

is e-alert a troll? or just a really terrible poster now?

 

[EverAlert]

A bit of both. But what would I know?

 

[Vinnie]

lol, wolf.

 

[BadKarma]

Would playing on wifi like on aib be good practice for my basics? With no chain grabbing obviously.

And what's your favorite place to take a mk when there arnt any good neutrals to fight on and it's your cp?

 

[Sieguest]

Would playing on wifi like on aib be good practice for my basics? With no chain grabbing obviously.

That's what I do. In my opinion it's a lot better than just playing with CPUs.

And what's your favorite place to take a mk when there arnt any good neutrals to fight on and it's your cp?

Brinstar

Just kidding.
I'd just CP him to as close a neutral as you can get. If you can't get to BF, FD, or SV. (I don't see how you wouldn't be able to get to at least one of the three but eh.) then I would just go Halberd or CS. x.x

 

[Smoom77]

don't go to halberd, go to CS.

 

[PZ]

Ever wonder how cpus desynch w/o any of the methods we have?

 

[BadKarma]

What would be better
Cs or battle field for mk?
I understand how cs is good vs mk but is it better than bf in that mu?

 

[Sieguest]

I'd definitely take BF over CS. I didn't think of mentioning BF before because you said there were no good neutrals for you to choose from. heh o.o

Ever wonder how cpus desynch w/o any of the methods we have?

Really? The only way the CPU has ever desynced whenever I play is whenever I hit them. o.o