Social General Ice Climber Chat

[choknater]

should be goin to a tournament on the 6th wish me luck

i'm rusty so i'm gonna need a couple days of practice ahhhhh

 

[Tomber]

Happy new year everybody. And good luck, choknater.

I'm going to a tourney myself (Beauty 5, 2/1 - 6/1) with players like IVP, Leffen, and Armada going too. Should be fun. I'll try to get some matches recorded.

 

[Nintendude]

Trail are you regged for Apex yet?

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Trail are you regged for Apex yet?

Ya I am, my charge didn't go through initially due to fraud protection shizz. we in it now. you got my number, why r u msging me on this **** lol....

 

[Nintendude]

I left my phone charger at my parents house over New Years and won't be able to get it til right after Apex, so I need to save my phone battery for when I really need it lol

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

I left my phone charger at my parents house over New Years and won't be able to get it til right after Apex, so I need to save my phone battery for when I really need it lol

Now I know how important I am to you, or shall I say, unimportant, seeing as I'm not worthy of your phone's battery life. This relationship is off to a rough start you *******.

 

[xKobayashi]

Ok so if an opponent (lets say for instance a fox) knows how to di out of throw chain grab, wobbling is banned, and your not on the edge (to handoff), what should you do? (lets say he is at between 20-40%)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You've got a few options.

On Final Destination you can up throw, dash attack if he DIs to either side, and re-grab.
You can charge an Fsmash in the grab, and dthrow, which will make many players DI into you. Then you release the smash and grab at the same time.
You can do the hand-off in an attempt to get closer to the ledge, and Nana might luckily fthrow or dthrow.

 

[xKobayashi]

Thanks Tuesday, that forward smash regrab is awesome

Also for movement is dash dancing while nana is since a bad idea because it de-synchs her sometimes, or should you just wave dash back and forth in a manner that is unpredictable

 

[Nintendude]

A lot of people are really good at getting out of the chaingrab, so you have to condition them to NOT DI it. You do this by occasionally replacing the dair with a d-smash. They can't react to it and if they are at like 40% or above and they input down + away on the d-smash, they will die and be afraid to continue DIing that way. Even if they're at pretty low percent it's still worth doing if you can get them off the edge with it since it'll send them at a low angle which is a lot easier to edgeguard. If they're at less than 10% you can try d-throw up-smash regrab.

 

[DerfMidWest]

wow... that's actually really helpful nintendude...
I was about to ask what to do about that because everyone in ohio knows how to DI out of my stuff now :|

 

[voorhese]

You've got a few options.

On Final Destination you can up throw, dash attack if he DIs to either side, and re-grab.
You can charge an Fsmash in the grab, and dthrow, which will make many players DI into you. Then you release the smash and grab at the same time.
You can do the hand-off in an attempt to get closer to the ledge, and Nana might luckily fthrow or dthrow.

I am not sure these will work quite like this vs players who can smash DI out of the traditional dthrow dair CG

The upthrow can just not be di'd and the best you will get out of it is an aerial

They can di away and not get hit by the smash

The last one is prolly the best of the 3 you listed, especially on platform stages because nna's uthrow/bthrow can put them on platforms

I would say you either need to keep them honest with dthrow smash attacks to catch them DI'ing away, or cross them up with nana's dair so they DI it wrong and you get a regrab.

edit: a fun thing to do to make the dthrow smashes even more hard to react to (DI wise) is to dthrow -> sh with nana -> air dodge down with nana -> fsmash. I think a lot of people react to the jump more than the dair. This is operating under the assumption that when they go for their smash DI they are not DIing away b4 the smash DI (if they are, then this would fall prey to the same problem as the charged fsmash regrab)

 

[Kyu Puff]

They can di away and not get hit by the smash

you can release the smash and kill them

 

[voorhese]

If they are in kill range, why are you trying to chain grab them in the 1st place?

if you mean that because you saw them DI away you can hit them with the smash and kill them, it's simply not true.

by the time you wait to see if they DI'd away then you have most likely already missed your chance to hit them with it. If you don't and you let it rip, you won't get the re-grab opportunity, and you are just doing a dthrow fsmash, which was already listed.

also, Once they Start to move from DIing away, they can change their DI for the smash attack and it won't affect them moving away from you, so they will have survival DI as well.

edit: this discussion got me thinking about ways to cover smash DI down and away with nana after an L-cancel on her dair during the cg, and when I just do a shuffled dair with her into a jc grab with popo she does a dash grab passed me. That may be a way to cover it at least a little bit (if they are almost in kill % range from a smash, almost to the ledge for handoffs, etc)

double edit: I may just be missing my JC grab with popo after the shuffled dair from nana >_<

triple edit: it doesn't feel like I am =/

last one I promise =P ; When I do the dthrow dair cg I don't press down hard enough for nana to crouch, idk if that makes a difference for any of this. (I will be testing against someone tonight who is smash di'ing it down and away and then buffering a roll to see if nana gets the grab)

 

[Kyu Puff]

If they are in kill range, why are you trying to chain grab them in the 1st place?

if you mean that because you saw them DI away you can hit them with the smash and kill them, it's simply not true.

by the time you wait to see if they DI'd away then you have most likely already missed your chance to hit them with it. If you don't and you let it rip, you won't get the re-grab opportunity, and you are just doing a dthrow fsmash, which was already listed.

You don't wait; it's a mix-up. Kill range for a charged f-smash that is DIed away is like 30% or 40%. If they survival DI, it's much higher than that, so you have to chain throw them before you can kill them. It's a coin toss, but if you condition them to react a certain way when they see the f-smash, it improves your chances a lot.

 

[voorhese]

The point is, can you catch them if they are always DI'ing the throw away b4 smash DI'ing the dair? if you can it won't be that charged I bet, and if u want it charged it is telegraphed enough where they will be able to DI it well I think.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Have you tried it? You start charging the smash before you d-throw. They commit to the DI when you throw them. The mix-up is either waiting to release the smash until right before they land (on DI up/in this leads into regrab), or releasing it right after they are released from the throw (on DI away this sends him at a low angle and kills extremely early). If the Fox player is always holding away, you should be punishing him for it (at low % where f-smash won't kill/if you are facing away from the ledge you can try b-throw f-air regrab to punish DI away).

 

[voorhese]

Do you have time to see them DI away and let go accordingly? Also, if they see you charge an fsmash b4 a throw they will most likely hold away until they get thrown, and then double stick DI up and in (in some combination).

 

[Tomber]

Yo. I got 3. at the tourney I went to in Sweden. Lost to Armada in Winners, and then to Leffen in losers finals, but I beat some of Sweden's best players on my way through losers bracket, so I'm pretty glad for the result. Running AC-SH-Uair as well as the "no-lag-grab" I've mentioned a few times worked really well for me. Got a ton of wobbles at 0% thanks to that. Sadly, nothing was recorded.

I think the next thing I'll have to work on is protecting Nana. I'm alright at it already I'd say, but there are still situations that I most become better at handling. Leffen beat me pretty badly as he shine-spiked Nana every time we split up, and Armada KO'ed Nana off every fair he got too. I'll try out stuff like running full hop Sopo blizzard in order to save Nana next time I play against these guys. At BEAST 3 or something.

 

[choknater]

lost to mango and then phil

i blame my loss to phil on my controller

but also the controller not being mine affected my confidence in my inputs

but even then today's tournament was freakin hard and stacked.

and this time my match with mango is NOT CLOSE. man the way that guy plays is just magical. that guy punishes MOVEMENT. even if the movement feels safe, like wavedash back, any movement can be predictable and punished. it's crazy.

 

[voorhese]

@ tomber I really want a full explaination, or a video about your 0 lag grab!

@Tomber/Chok Good stuff guys!

 

[choknater]

yeah what's the no lag grab :O

also great job at 3rd place!

i feel like my ic's are still stuck in 2009 technology ever since i didn't own a copy of melee

 

[Armada]

the "no-lag-grab" thing seems to work really good. Never seen someone being able to start the wobbling like that (or being that consistent with wobbling either).

Good **** Tomber!

 

[Tomber]

Thanks.

And yeah, I should make a video/ explanation some time.

I'm going to a "big" (15 players) danish tournament later this month where there will be recording set ups. I'll figure something out.

choknater: Did Mango play Falcon? Punishing wave dash back sounds pretty rough, hah.

 

[Binx]

I think Fox could do it to if he started running right before you started the imputs from certain spacings. Maybe you could shield the nair in time but it would be close I think.
Also yeah I wanna see this no lag grab as well.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I also did pretty well at a regional last weekend (although the skill level wasn't quite as high as the tournaments you guys went to). I got to grand finals without dropping a set, but then the person I beat in winner's finals decided to learn Peach in half an hour and beat me.

It's embarrassing how bad I am at that match-up, I swear I have a mental block or something that stops me from making the easiest reads...

 

[voorhese]

How do u guys practice solo?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

LV3 CPUs, practice everything I can

 

[choknater]

tomber yes mango played puff

wow kyu puff nice job, who was the player in grand finals?

 

[Wobbles]

Kyu Puff: One of my problems has always been REALLY WANTING to punish certain things because I'm tired of getting walled out. So you see Peach whiff something and think "this is my chance" when really they're just going to spam spot-dodge and d-smash again.

It's not even a case of missing reads vs. not, it's not reading at all and going for the actual punishment. The matchup is weird. Patience and baiting is everything.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Hey wobbles gimme a call.. I'll send you a pm!.. .. or text is fine..

 

[DerfMidWest]

Wobbles is about to get 1st at Apex.
Calling it now.

 

[Nintendude]

ICs got Peached at Apex
Wobbles lost to Armada and Vwins (barely). I lost to Bladewise in game 3 (my other loss was Mango). This matchup is winnable but so hard to be consistently good at.

Not sure what ended up happening to Trail.

 

[Tomber]

Yea, I know that feeling. I was kind of hoping for Wobbles to do good against Armada, but even though he did a little better than I normally do vs. him in tournament myself, it was pretty one sided. Wobbles being rusty / missing a lot of chain grabs, hand offs, and other technical stuff might have come into play, though. He got a few grabs which could have resulted a few KOs, at least with wobbling.

I'm thinking of picking someone like Puff up as my Peach cp, but I don't really know. My own Peach has gotten pretty good, but Peach mains might be better at the match up than I am.

Anyway, Apex 2013 was a pretty cool tournament.

 

[Wobbles]

I played more friendlies with Armada and did much better, though my grab game has been horrendous lately. I don't think I got more than three solid grab combos all tournament against ANYBODY ;__; plus my Nana kept getting killed. I practically got 17th place with SoPo >___>

My match versus Vwins was really disappointing to me, mostly because of a really disheartening SD in game 3 where Nana edgehogged me after I squall-hammered. I got into primal battle warrior mode and started shouting and took a full stock + spare change, but couldn't close it out. I did not protect Nana well at all either so there was a lot of room for improvement, and VWins was on point when it came to slaying her. Since I'm normally proud of my strength in that matchup, that kind of hurt my feelings. SHOULD HAVE GONE MARIO.

Most of my sets this tournament were really ugly to watch, in terms of execution from both players; my set against Gucci is a really poor showcase (his SDs and my constant flubs) and I want to play him again sometime. I think I was most proud of my Diakonos match, because he wouldn't let me land sync'ed grabs to begin with so I couldn't mess those up and feel bad about them. I kind of want to use an Egypt john, since I haven't had a Gamecube to train on for over 4 months now. I'm also really fired up to train ultra hard for the next major I go to. I say that a lot, though I actually mean it this time ;D

Oh well. It was still a blast.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

ICs got Peached at Apex
Wobbles lost to Armada and Vwins (barely). I lost to Bladewise in game 3 (my other loss was Mango). This matchup is winnable but so hard to be consistently good at.

Not sure what ended up happening to Trail.

i got 25th, i had to whip out the ganon to beat Alan's peach in round 1 winners lol. Outside of m2k and armada PP's set with me was prob his closet one lol. I held the lead going into the last stok in all the games. S2J absolutely ***** my ****, he ****ing blew my *** away. He ***** fly tho so I dont feel too bad :/.

 

[Trail Jr.]

Got my 1st tourney this weekend boys. Imma wreck some god damn faces.

 

[Engo]

I played more friendlies with Armada and did much better, though my grab game has been horrendous lately. I don't think I got more than three solid grab combos all tournament against ANYBODY ;__; plus my Nana kept getting killed. I practically got 17th place with SoPo >___>

My match versus Vwins was really disappointing to me, mostly because of a really disheartening SD in game 3 where Nana edgehogged me after I squall-hammered. I got into primal battle warrior mode and started shouting and took a full stock + spare change, but couldn't close it out. I did not protect Nana well at all either so there was a lot of room for improvement, and VWins was on point when it came to slaying her. Since I'm normally proud of my strength in that matchup, that kind of hurt my feelings. SHOULD HAVE GONE MARIO.

Most of my sets this tournament were really ugly to watch, in terms of execution from both players; my set against Gucci is a really poor showcase (his SDs and my constant flubs) and I want to play him again sometime. I think I was most proud of my Diakonos match, because he wouldn't let me land sync'ed grabs to begin with so I couldn't mess those up and feel bad about them. I kind of want to use an Egypt john, since I haven't had a Gamecube to train on for over 4 months now. I'm also really fired up to train ultra hard for the next major I go to. I say that a lot, though I actually mean it this time ;D

Oh well. It was still a blast.

I was watching that match vs Vwins with the other Canadians and I gotta admit in the back of my head I was rooting for you. I know you said you weren't playing well but even then seeing IC's compete with an excellent peach like Vwins when the matchup is so horrible really left an impression of me. My interested for this character keeps increasing and I get more tempted to try and take them seriously/main them/

 

[odinNJ]

So I was playing doubles on pokestadium. I was Marth,
My
Teammate was Ganon and the only opponent left was my friend on ICs.
So I tipper his nana into ganons upB and it triggers the freeze glitch, popo was getting star ko"d at the time. What happened?

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Wobbles Genesis 3 in July.

Keep the hope alive. I want to see you or Fly win it.