Social General Ice Climber Chat

[HammerTime]

Wobbles, I was watching your match against VWins and although I had to cheer for my fellow Canadian I thought you did shockingly well against him given how terrible that matchup is. I almost feel like I've gotten better at that matchup just from observing what choices you made in that set, so good stuff to you.

Good job to the other IC mains as well, I think I was the only one that got bodied. Gotta learn how to play against Samus before the next major tourney.

 

[Nintendude]

I used to think the Samus matchup is fine as long as you don't fall for Samus crap but after playing Plup I'm reconsidering. He was wrecking me pretty badly.

 

[HammerTime]

I used to think the Samus matchup is fine as long as you don't fall for Samus crap but after playing Plup I'm reconsidering. He was wrecking me pretty badly.

Yea thats the same samus I got wrecked by lol. I got pwned by him almost as badly as I did by everyone I played in smash 64 lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

Nobody plays good at APEX.

 

[HammerTime]

Nobody plays good at APEX.

Sorta true, I choked during a lot of matches. It was still fun regardless

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

Nobody plays well at APEX.

fixed, noone saw that!

 

[xKobayashi]

just entered my first tournament ever today (WinterGameFest) and i got 17th with the ice climbers!!!! pretty stoked

 

[PB&J]

played some icy's yesterday and it felt so Good. My new training partner is "The Moon" so ill be posting some vids after all my apex stuff with him and I playing each other.

and people should use icy's uptilt more,that thing is amazing

 

[choknater]

plup is so tricky and has airtight defense

i can't imagine beating him with ic's either

i'd go ylink. LOL

 

[PB&J]

plup plays uber ice sometimes and uber ice is pretty good vs samus becaus eof fighting phanna

 

[stelzig]

Thanks.

And yeah, I should make a video/ explanation some time.

I'm going to a "big" (15 players) danish tournament later this month where there will be recording set ups. I'll figure something out.

choknater: Did Mango play Falcon? Punishing wave dash back sounds pretty rough, hah.

Just as a heads-up we never got around to do this. Tomber says he's going to take a break from smash (maybe till beast 3), but if I meet up with him I guess we can try and record it/some matches. Or I can try asking him to explain it to me in danish and see if I can replicate it

 

[PB&J]

I was Playing against "The Moon's" Marth last night and it seems i forgot to get around d-tilt. He was spacing them very well and it seemed like i coudnt even do anything.

I won the set but d-tilt is very annoying to get around.

Fly,wobbles or anyone else want to give me some tips?

 

[Laijin]

I was Playing against "The Moon's" Marth last night and it seems i forgot to get around d-tilt. He was spacing them very well and it seemed like i coudnt even do anything.

I won the set but d-tilt is very annoying to get around.

Fly,wobbles or anyone else want to give me some tips?

Play Young Link

 

[Kyu Puff]

you can sh f-air over it (will usually ground him) or fullshield and roll behind him (you can also try wavedashing to get into shieldgrab range but your timing has to be spot on). you can also sometimes weave through it with a well-timed wavedash

you don't really have to approach him though. if he's stuffing you with f-air/d-tilt just sit back and shoot some ice blocks or blizzard and force hm to come to you.

 

[Mallwan]

I'm trying to learn some Chaingrabs with ICs and I wonder if "d-throw -> dair" on Captain Falcon and Ganondorf is 100% safe or not. And also, should I turn around for the regrab, or face in one direction all the time ?

 

[Nintendude]

It's not guaranteed but it's hard to escape and you probably won't ever get punished for trying it unless you do something dumb. Also I like to mix up doing reverse and non-reverse since it messes with DI.

 

[Mallwan]

Ok, thank you for the quick answer.
Here is a completely different question: When I want to kill an opponent with d-throw -> Up-smash I usually get the right timing for all characters, but I really have problems with jigglypuff. If my opponent holds the controllstick away from me I can't hit jiggs, no matter how fast I do the Up-smash (uncharged) Is it because I'm too sloppy ? But d-throw -> F-smash works fine for me, but does not kill as good as the Up-smash.
Do I have to charge the Up-smash and release the A-Button to get a faster connection between the throw and the smash, or can jiggs escape from that as well ?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

You could always up throw to up smash if you have trouble with the timing. It's definitely guaranteed though

 

[Engo]

It's not guaranteed but it's hard to escape and you probably won't ever get punished for trying it unless you do something dumb. Also I like to mix up doing reverse and non-reverse since it messes with DI.

Wait, so the regular downthrow downair chaingrab(as opposed to the reverse downair) IS possible and reliable on Falcon and Ganon? I always thought you had to do the reverse.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

just shdair with nana and they go forward or if you want to switch it up full hop dair with DI towards popo.
all dthrow dair regrab is based on DI/Smash DI of the opponent. what he means by mixing up DI is when you opponent attempts to DI a reverse dthrow dair regrab away from the grab you could mixup a normal 1 to make them DI into your regrab.
also try to lcancel nanas dair so you can go right into handoff or wobbling from the regrab immediately

 

[ChivalRuse]

Ok, thank you for the quick answer.
Here is a completely different question: When I want to kill an opponent with d-throw -> Up-smash I usually get the right timing for all characters, but I really have problems with jigglypuff. If my opponent holds the controllstick away from me I can't hit jiggs, no matter how fast I do the Up-smash (uncharged) Is it because I'm too sloppy ? But d-throw -> F-smash works fine for me, but does not kill as good as the Up-smash.
Do I have to charge the Up-smash and release the A-Button to get a faster connection between the throw and the smash, or can jiggs escape from that as well ?

Remember that in order to up-smash ASAP Nana has to not be doing anything already. So if you have Nana blizzard Puff in the grab, you have to wait for the blizzard animation to finish. Other than that, just up-smash REALLY fast after the d-throw. Like almost simultaneously.

 

[Wobbles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDHAnYyY-4Q

This was cute.

 

[choknater]

rofl that was pretty godlike

i wanna steal it

 

[Laijin]

What do you guys do vs Young Link? He's a pretty hard counter to Ice Climbers.

 

[Nintendude]

I just shield and shoot stuff until I get some momentum and then wreck him.

 

[Laijin]

I just shield and shoot stuff until I get some momentum and then wreck him.

Momentum? But what if I run away the entire time? Icies can't really out camp a platform against him.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

lol u wouldnt be in here if you didnt have a problem with IC's or strategizing against friends. your projectiles are good but if you screw up spacing around blizzard and ice blocks(like a human) we can just use our superior moblity to land a grab or smash. also what r you going to do when we get a counterpick, or are striking stages, i dont think ys, bf, fd or fod are good maps for you to camp us on. also wd towards you oos after shielding projectiles would be pretty threatening.

 

[Laijin]

lol u wouldnt be in here if you didnt have a problem with IC's or strategizing against friends. your projectiles are good but if you screw up spacing around blizzard and ice blocks(like a human) we can just use our superior moblity to land a grab or smash. also what r you going to do when we get a counterpick, or are striking stages, i dont think ys, bf, fd or fod are good maps for you to camp us on. also wd towards you oos after shielding projectiles would be pretty threatening.

All I gotta do is make sure we never play on Final D and I'm fine. Every other stage will give an advantage to YL. Why? Because YL has superior platform game. YS, BF and FoD are all in YL's favor. The only stage I need to worry about your mobility on is FD and thats only ground mobility. If you're hopping around platforms you are a sitting duck to YL. I don't need to worry about screwing up my spacing because why would I go in if you have not gotten hit by a bomb? I can play extremely safe if need be.

I'm just here because I'm generally interested if you guys have any strategies against YL that I don't know about. Knowledge is power bby!

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

the problem with your theory is that our fullhop up air pokes through the top platform safely(if spaced correctly). noone can camp ic's for a reason, there are two of them! even falco cant camp ics effectively
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf_4nJ1XbBU
38:47, there is a time stamp in description
i dont have alot of experience in this matchup but i feel that our mobilty and the knockback of our smashes would be very hard for yl to deal with. to give you and example if you throw a boomerang downward while jumpin onto a side platform and i fh or sh uaired at the same time while synced with nana she would hit you after my popo got hit by the boomerang. if applied to my wd forward fsmash you could be getting a hammer in the face even tho 1 of my climbers was hit by your boomerang. the bomb will affect both normally tho. basically we have better punishes for you mistakes at all percents.

 

[Laijin]

the problem with your theory is that our fullhop up air pokes through the top platform safely(if spaced correctly). noone can camp ic's for a reason, there are two of them! even falco cant camp ics effectively
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf_4nJ1XbBU
38:47

I disagree. If your hammer collides with a bomb, it'll just blow up in your face most likely.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

if you will read after i actually supply an example that uses your boomerang as an example and admit if your bomb hits it will affect both of us. if you think about running away your going to need your boomerang not just bombs. if you only use bomb wdoos to fsmash will hurt

 

[Kyu Puff]

i have to agree with laijin here. hate playing against young link.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

as much as i dislike playing someone who is camping me i dont think that dislike is actually evidence of which char has the advandtage in the matchup.

 

[Laijin]

if you will read after i actually supply an example that uses your boomerang as an example and admit if your bomb hits it will affect both of us. if you think about running away your going to need your boomerang not just bombs. if you only use bomb wdoos to fsmash to catch you on side plats

Why the hell would my bombs hit me too? If you're jumping up towards the platform to stop me from camping, you are:
1. If you actually jump onto the platform, you will get hit by a bomb.
2. If you just try to pressure me with u-airs through the platform, you will get hit by a bomb since you're now in the air and completely vulnerable. If you're playing Ice Climbers, the one place you don't want to be is in the air. I'll have you right where I want you.

There is no catching Young Link on the platforms. He has way more air mobility than ICies. The only way to catch him is to get him to land in front of you on the ground and try and catch him in a grab combo.

I'll see if I can get a match recorded sometime with a local Ice Climbers player nearby me. Nintendude, Chu Dat, Chival Ruse, whoever.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

im genuinely interested, i cant find a match of decent ic vs decent yl on youtube
this might help, a ic main playing yl against a low lvl ics
http://youtu.be/sZHsYs4AGSg

 

[Laijin]

Actually Axe just posted this video this morning against Wobbles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOuxbBbK7Gs#t=1h16m44s
His YL vs Icies

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

wow thanx
axe plays soo aggresively tho
chok played closer to our argument but that ics was making lots of mistakes and was playing it really stupid
I think your advantage in this matchup is problems edgeguarding you and that dair punish, axe also seemed to apply good shield pressure on wobbles

 

[Laijin]

Yeah his playstyle differs from mine

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

i have seen alot of wobbles vids and he seemed sooo complacent in that vid, missing wave lands and getting punished for shield grab.
your uair looks pretty devastating
he also trys to edgeguard axe way too aggressively which lost him 100+%
also i havent even mentioned 0-death chaingrabs

 

[Kyu Puff]

as much as i dislike playing someone who is camping me i dont think that dislike is actually evidence of which char has the advandtage in the matchup.

true, but sometimes when there is a lack of evidence amongst high level players, personal experience is the only thing to fall back on. you can theorize all day, but that's useless if you haven't played the match-up extensively.

i've had to play the match-up a few times in tournament, and i can't say for sure whether or not it's disadvantaged, but it sure feels disadvantaged to me. his projectiles really limit your movement, and it's hard to get a clean hit on him without straight up outplaying him/baiting your opponent into doing something stupid.

i've tried the shieldcamping strategy other ic players have suggested and found that if the young link is content with camping, shielding doesn't do anything because they can just keep throwing stuff at your shield from a distance. this is of course a simplification, but it's just my perception of the match-up.