Social General Ice Climber Chat

[ChivalRuse]

Thing about DK is he gets hit by everything. Just gotta throw out lots of moves and not wavedash haphazardly into bairs, and you should be good.

Also, DK players tend to telegraph their fully charged punches, so as long as you pay attention, you shouldn't be getting hit by those.

 

[choknater]

they are both kinda the same deal. the greatest problem with DK is his giant punch IMO, the invincibility makes every approach a gamble, and it's difficult to punish. other than that, you can pretty much blizzard ice block camp him safely. this provokes him to full hop, which makes it easy to read his jumps and uair. plus he's generally a slow character apart from bair, and can't really combo off his faster moves (jab/tilts) so you should be pretty safe being aggressive if he's facing towards you.

ganon can be blizzblocked as well, but it's a little harder. basically you gotta shield/light shield often and discipline yourself into not rolling. he's good at forcing us to the edge, but it's not like we don't have ways to approach. waveshield is a good way to maintain position, and dash attacking is a legitimate approach since he has to jump in order to attack us. if you notice that the ganon has a habit of double jumping (which they tend to do a lot so that they can better fast fall their aerial) you should be able to find time to wd under him and either uair/utilt/usmash, or punish whatever aerial he does.

in general a dangerous matchup and his edgeguarding is brutal so just find the best ways to be safe

 

[ChivalRuse]

The way the Ganon matchup works is you just want to get him in the air. Dash attacks, up-smashes, blizzards/ice blocks to bait him into jumping, then uair. On the other hand, you don't want him below you, because his priority is all above him.

 

[KirbyKaze]

The easiest and most common way ANY character loses to Ganon is by getting above him too much

 

[Grim Tuesday]

learn some approaches and experiment with them on friends and low level cpu's/level 9 cpu's

some good ones

1. wd shield
2. wd grab
3. wd jab -> grab/smash
4. wd smash
5. dash attack

also mess around with nairs, ftilts, other moves

for rush down characters, u gotta find out when to shield and what moves counter certain approaches. for example, utilt can sometimes stuff falcon's stomps and even knees. for falco there are a lot of anti laser tricksies you can do. for fox i think the trick is to often be aggressive yourself and put pressure on HIM. it's very risky but sometimes it's the only way, since he has numerous ways he can get through a standard ic's defense.

my favorite approach is this:

run up to them, read their full jump, and uair LOOOOL

grim if u have specific situations/moves u have trouble against then post em

I have trouble with getting pillar'd by Falco and Fox mostly.

I use up tilt against Jigglypuff/Sheik/Falcon and it often hits, but when I try it against spacies it is always too slow...

To avoid Falco's lasers I mostly just de-synch Nana in the way of the hit and spam Ice Blocks

 

[ChivalRuse]

The easiest and most common way ANY character loses to Ganon is by getting above him too much

Yes, but with ICs it's particularly bad because on top of their having bad options for regaining their footing and the fact that their getting sent offstage results in an easy edgeguard for Ganon, they have to also deal with Nana being separated/taking damage at the same time, which means the reward for Ganon is even higher.

 

[PEEF!]

Dumb stuff like Dash>Jump cancelled half charged usmash works as an approach vs Puff and Ganon. No joke.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I personally like the dash dance Nana f-smash desync for approaching characters with jumping tendencies.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Try pivot Smashes.

Popo will do a Usmash and Nana is free so you can do a blizzard or something to cover your front or to combo if you land a hit.

I'm gonna try and see if I can do an Fsmash variant where the fsmash connects and nana grabs them out of hitlag.


If you can do it out of a wavedash and space it well, it'd make a really solid approach.

I gotta practice but last time I practiced, it was one of the things I was working on.

 

[Smasher89]

Hmm yea not rolling sounds like a good idea, is it possible to shieldgrab ganons jab(since spacing a fair and jab is basicly my biggest trouble(while I waveshield it), not sure what to do against that slow quite brutal pressure.). Like what is a good pressuretool against that fair?(or dks bair) since they do really take time(or gives me time to maneuver(?))while they are spacing it.

Dashattacking, you mean like catching their jumpstartup animation with it? Sounds interesting

Do DK have a quick tech? Had trouble dthrow techchasing him.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Dash attacking during the startup is scary for me. I'd rathertry to catch him in between the end of the fair and beginning of his jab.

 

[choknater]

autocancel sh uair can stuff his double jump fair....

IF YOU'RE BRAVE ENOUGH

LOL

besides being campy (which is usually how i win), it's easy to punish his landings. he can fair, land, and he usually covers himself with a jab. im NOT SURE if you can shield grab it (you probably can) but i usually don't try. after jab, ganon does one of 2 things: jump, or jab again. if he jumps u can punish this with an aerial or up attack.

i remember azn lep telling me ic's aerials are better in this matchup than others simply cuz they're faster than ganon's. take that with a grain of salt, cuz it's just super dangerous.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Most ganons I know will either spam jab on your shield or they'll roll out of the way if they spaced it too deeply.

 

[ChivalRuse]

If you sense jab spam, retreating fair out of shield will beat it from the front. Bair out of shield obviously is fast enough to fit between jabs if he's behind you.

 

[Smasher89]

If you sense jab spam, retreating fair out of shield will beat it from the front. Bair out of shield obviously is fast enough to fit between jabs if he's behind you.

If that's the case with bair I guess it'll go much better next time! :D

 

[choknater]

i sense epic danger from those counter attacks but i'll try em out if i ever fight ganon again

(though i usually get salty and CP falco if i lose once)

 

[ChivalRuse]

Ganon's mad annoying but once you start punishing his jumps with up-smashes/f-smashes there's little else you have to worry about.

 

[choknater]

haha yah, i tend to camp him these days and it works out for me

falco taps

 

[Wobbles]

Darkrain was ****** me with Ganon recently until I started standing right outside of his tilt range and just dash-dance camped into grab whenever he whiffed an aerial and tilted or jabbed to cover for it.

Then once he started approaching deeper I started doing wave-dash up-smashes and b-airs. Now I'm basically 2 and 3 stocking his Ganon a bunch. Feels good to know that I've beaten the gimmick.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Isn't it unreliable to dash dance when you have Nana, though, since if she gets hit by a fair the hitlag can sometimes throw off your timing enough that you run Popo right into it as well?

 

[smakis]

dunno about ganon, it's like you can close your eyes and still have trouble NOT hitting him ^_^, obviously he can **** you right back.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I always lose to stupid gimmicks. Go me.

In other news, blizzard is a good move.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

I always lose to stupid gimmicks. Go me.

In other news, blizzard is a good move.

=((((((((((((((((((




I feel like there's a way to punish blizzard like DIing up / jumping out or DIing in / shining but I never tested them out =(

 

[ChivalRuse]

Blizzard is pretty broken. Even at higher percents when it freezes you it results in a positional advantage for ICs.

 

[choknater]

=((((((((((((((((((




I feel like there's a way to punish blizzard like DIing up / jumping out or DIing in / shining but I never tested them out =(

if i am too close, falco can SDI in and shine

lvl 9 cpu does this to me

just watch out for popo if it's a desynched nana blizz

 

[Fly_Amanita]

=((((((((((((((((((




I feel like there's a way to punish blizzard like DIing up / jumping out or DIing in / shining but I never tested them out =(

The first sentence wasn't directed at you, in case you thought it was.

You can SDI out of blizzard and jump, but it's tricky. We can practice that later if you want to.

 

[PEEF!]

The people I play against all the time just don't get hit by blizzard. They just sit there and wait for it to end>punish my bad position or just jump over it.

 

[Smasher89]

Then you can hit them with an Iceblock, or if they jump, predict in an uair.

Blizzard kinda works like Marth's dtilt, used in a similar way that the dtiltguide shows it can work(check the marthboards, should be there somewere).
A short summary of it is that you have alot of options when also pressuring+limiting the opponent with it.

I've started using quite alot of iceblocks, since people usually aren't aggressive enough to punish in those openings even when I do unsafe ones. Works well and seems to help alot in keeping more pressure on the opponents, and getting more important hits in.

Seems like SoPo platformcanceled IB can lead to a grab when done fast enough!(saw that I did it in a vid against samus lol, so it probably works).

Lots of interesting stuff against ganon, these things will for sure be tested and help me improve in those matchups :D

 

[choknater]

ive gotten so good vs marth LOL

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I started smashing people the way I was facing lately instead of always smashing them the opposite and it has led to some funny DI,
(I am refering to smashing them the way Popo is facing since I normally always do the DI messing up trick by upthrowing and then smashing them the opposite way Popo is facing.)

Basically I am just saying that using seemingly random smashes (upsmashing someone from a throw even though you are at the edge of the level) can can really lead you to some funny KO's.

I just want to say the people I play with are not scrubs by any means and I am the worst one in the group so (they are all technical spacies and what have you)


Any rate, like in the above mentioned situation, when they expect to get fsmashed at the edge of the level after a cg I have started to mix it up and upsmash right at the edge leading to some early KOs since they are doing survival DI (straight up for a expected Fsmash). Mixing up what smashes you do in certain situations (from a grab) can lead to some good things.

Another example was I was at the top of battlefield and I usually will upsmash from throw, I did a down smash instead and my friend had the most ridiculously bad DI.

Idk just talking.

 

[Wobbles]

I started smashing people the way I was facing lately instead of always smashing them the opposite and it has led to some funny DI,
(I am refering to smashing them the way Popo is facing since I normally always do the DI messing up trick by upthrowing and then smashing them the opposite way Popo is facing.)

Basically I am just saying that using seemingly random smashes (upsmashing someone from a throw even though you are at the edge of the level) can can really lead you to some funny KO's.

I just want to say the people I play with are not scrubs by any means and I am the worst one in the group so (they are all technical spacies and what have you)


Any rate, like in the above mentioned situation, when they expect to get fsmashed at the edge of the level after a cg I have started to mix it up and upsmash right at the edge leading to some early KOs since they are doing survival DI (straight up for a expected Fsmash). Mixing up what smashes you do in certain situations (from a grab) can lead to some good things.

Another example was I was at the top of battlefield and I usually will upsmash from throw, I did a down smash instead and my friend had the most ridiculously bad DI.

Idk just talking.

Yep. Works pretty dandy for getting those kills that you're not supposed to get. Obviously if your charged smash is gonna get you the kill regardless, then just go for it, but screwing up the other guy's DI is buckets of fun.

In the same vein, ever try doing a d-throw f-smash-> WD jab-reset on a spacy or Falcon at low percents? They're always anticipating a d-throw d-air, so they DI straight into the ground and never tech.

Also pretty good if you're kinda near the edge but not quite ready for a handoff, ESPECIALLY when the Falcon player is familiar with your CG style. They expect the chaingrab to get them near the edge so they're ready to DI to escape... but then you just launch them off it. Falcon recovering low is easy mode to wreck, especially if he panics and up+b's without a good angle.

 

[ChivalRuse]

One thing I've experimented with a bit is d-throw -> SH nair -> Popo wd f-smash. This also gets them a little closer to the edge and can catch fast fallers with bad DI which often leads to early gimps or a grab at the ledge for handoff.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

ESPECIALLY when the Falcon player is familiar with your CG style. They expect the chaingrab to get them near the edge so they're ready to DI to escape... but then you just launch them off it.

This is what I meant more concisely put. If they are familiar with your CGs and they are DIing to survive or escape that is when we can surprise them.

I am going to try that FSmash > Jab reset seems cute.

 

[Wobbles]

Just did it tonight against Darkrain. From the middle of the level I sent him to the edge of FD, and he smash DI'ed down and away and didn't even remember to hit his trigger button. This was around... 20 ish percent; I jab reset and finished with a handoff. Pretty baller!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Just did it tonight against Darkrain. From the middle of the level I sent him to the edge of FD, and he smash DI'ed down and away and didn't even remember to hit his trigger button. This was around... 20 ish percent; I jab reset and finished with a handoff. Pretty baller!

Videos?

 

[Wobbles]

Haha, I'm trying to save a bit of money so that I can get a capture card or something and start recording our friendlies.

That way we can both get some combo videos made; Darkrain plays a lot of characters and does a lot of cool stuff, so I was thinking that after a few days we would have 3 vids in total--the two of us being silly with alts, his Falcon and my ICs.

What really sucks is that DoH lives in Fort Worth, which is about an hour drive from Plano where Darkrain and I live. Then he and I both have weird, constantly changing work schedules, so it'll make it really hard to get HIS video made. He totally needs one.

Oh, also forgot to mention I got a grab on him on the right platform on Battlefield, facing left. Did a handoff, wavelanded across the top platform and we both landed on the left one. He tech-rolled to the right, so I grabbed again, and Nana came jumping over so I could do ANOTHER handoff. I wavelanded over the top platform to the right side, and finished with a fully charged d-smash when Nana threw him across the level into me. THAT shoulda been recorded.

 

[Binx]

Hey wobbles how do deal with people that spend a lot of time hopping around platforms? Yesterday I had a lot of trouble getting anything solid on Fox/Falco that did that and had to face a pretty annoying young link who bomb camped for all over on dream land and just tossed bombs, I am pretty good at catching projectiles so I prolly could have had an easier time than I did with the Young Link but the foxes and falcos I still have a lot of trouble with, to a lesser extent falcon can do it to me as well, other characters may be able to as well but yeah.

Also I had the best play of my life yesterday and it was super manly, epic combo of the day vs Marth, dthrow -> nana fsmash -> popo wavedash fsmash -> nana iceblock -> popo grab -> nana upsmash -> upair back air for like a 100%

EDIT: some of my matches may have been recorded, so if I can get those in my hands I would love to get some critiques from the IC community.

 

[Smasher89]

Binx-Check Chocnater's matches against the Falcon in a recent set posted at these boards. Notice how he pressures.

Saw a few things there that kinda "reignited" my belief that IC's don't get camped(maybe on KJ64), or more that they can be played like the most brutal offensive character(since not getting camped)ever.

Especially since theres 2(probably more) of them!

 

[Binx]

Binx-Check Chocnater's matches against the Falcon in a recent set posted at these boards. Notice how he pressures.

Saw a few things there that kinda "reignited" my belief that IC's don't get camped(maybe on KJ64), or more that they can be played like the most brutal offensive character(since not getting camped)ever.

Especially since theres 2(probably more) of them!

the one vs Mango?

 

[Vts]

Wobbles can i come visit you for a while?

i do need to come to texas anyways since u and doh keep coming to us we need to come visit you.

but 5hours is so dumb lol.

also how's your computer being built coming along?

i wanna play some games with you :D