Social General Ice Climber Chat

[Nintendude]

Shoot more ice blocks, especially against Marth. Punish harder and don't do a d-smash that won't kill when you can get a grab instead. Work on cleaning up your tech skill too. Lots of missed wavedashes and other occasional technical errors.

 

[cemo]

idk how you ended up on dreamland, that usually ends up as my counterpick vs marth. i usually try to dashdance around his fairs instead of shielding and hoping he mis-spaces. (although he did misspace a lot)

your wavelanding from the ledge needs work. (so does mine)
3:19, that was a tipper on your shield, right? up - b out of shield seems like a solid choice to regain space, your heart was in the right place.
some f-smashes you punished with a straight d-smash, maybe it's better to grab, unless you really want them off the stage
you missed some of the regrabs on reverse dairs and upsmashes after downthrows but i figure you don't want people to point out your technical errors.
haha i am having a hard time with constructive criticism because the skill gap between you two was huge.

 

[DerfMidWest]

yeah I was botching tech stuff ALL day that tournament -.-
but that's alright, I'm working on getting it all solid again.
And I did notice the dsmash thing. It's such an instinct to do that, that's gonna be a tough habit for me to break.

I wanted to get more sets recorded, but I just never got around to it,

 

[Smasher89]

Is anyone looking into framedata having a answer to this:
What if i hit with a pivot uptilt with popo, regular with nana, does that affect how it should be DI'd meaning it can be easier to get the hard hit?. (example wavedash left facing right before, turning around as soon as possible>utilt before nana has time to turn around, meaning she does one too.)

 

[Vanitas]

Hey Ice climbers;

Since the majority of you guys are much more experienced than I am..What are the justifications of using Side-B out of shield like how Fly did in this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTFEtXj4qA0

It seems to have worked in his favour but I'm curious to what kind of options this would lead to? I know sometimes a squall hammer can lead to a downsmash...

EDIT: congratulations Fly for winning SSS! :D I watched the set with fiction and you seem to always nail your handoffs on the last stock (Reference to a close match between you and SFAT at Big house 2?)

 

[eplb]

Hi, I'd like to know how to nanapult. I know how to desynch, using basic stuff, but how can nana get out of that invisible box ? I've been told I had to, for example, desynch, nana blizzard, popo blizzard, and while popo's doing it, i just nanapult nana. However it doesn't seem to work. So am I doing it wrong ? Or am I understanding it wrong ? thanks.

 

[Tuesday]

Desync with spot dodge or something, ice block with nana, ice block with Popo, and just dash forward, jump, and blizzard. That's not the only way, but that's the easiest way, and once you get a feel for it you can do it easier in other ways.

 

[eplb]

I'm trying but nana just barely walks. That confuses me.

edit :t' was just me trying to move too early, now it works. thanks !

 

[DerfMidWest]

Hey Ice climbers;

Since the majority of you guys are much more experienced than I am..What are the justifications of using Side-B out of shield like how Fly did in this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTFEtXj4qA0

It seems to have worked in his favour but I'm curious to what kind of options this would lead to? I know sometimes a squall hammer can lead to a downsmash...

nana can't use sideB out of shield. so you can make popo squall while nana is free to do whatever.

 

[Tomber]

I just watched the videos from KoC3. Good job Fly. I like your use of side-b and Sopo play.

However, I would really like to see you get those wobbling set ups down. You're a more experienced player than I am and you have better fundamentals, but every time I watch you play I see you get grabs that I would've converted into KOs with wobbling while you'll often get much less out of them. From what I can tell you tend to press A too late for the first pummel which sometimes make you do a throw with Popo because you're moving the control stick forward for the f-tilt while you can still control Popo. At other times it seems like you're simply tapping too fast and therefor let the opponent get out. I'm not quite sure though.

Do you know what causes you to mess up? I'd like to hear your thoughts. Also, how do you practice your wobbling? Do you become nervous? I'd like to help you if possible because I think it would make your punish game much more consistent.
Also, I think you're using the reverse f-smash finisher too much. Unless you're certain you'll get the KO then it's often better to go for stuff like d-throw->f-smash because the damage is much higher (d-throw->f-smash is +20% while reverse f-smash below 10%).


Anyway, here are some recent matches from a tournament in Finland where I got 5th place. I didn't play too well IMO, but whatever. I know what I need to do next time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5zRNne4daU (vs. Android)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LvJrdL-P6E (vs. mayhem)

 

[Vinylic.]

Fly Amanita, that was an incredible play. Kudos.

 

[-Coco-]

EDIT: nvm figured it out

 

[DerfMidWest]

tomber I think fly mostly uses reverse fsmash as a DI mix up and for style lol.

 

[AlienAllen]

I'm an Ice Climber scrub and I come with a question my friend asked. Does anything change about Popo when Nana dies? He heard somewhere that he did more damage or something but I don't believe that is true.

 

[DerfMidWest]

nope. when nana dies, you lose a lot of your recovery options.
obv, no nana to upB with
and your sideB won't rise as much when you're not synced.
Your moves still act exactly the same, there is just one of them instead of two.

so when you have nana and you're synced, your moves will do more damage just because there are two of them.

 

[cemo]

I think you can only tap into latent Super Saiyan abilities once Nana has died, though.

 

[choknater]

when nana dies, you do open up some more movement options with popo, because you can now do things that would desync nana if you were together

most importantly: dash dancing

 

[DerfMidWest]

yeah being able to dash dance is so good. To be honest, my sopo does most of the work for me in tournament.
when I have nana, I can wreck stuff and 0-death, but when I'm sopo I just get to dd all day and bait stuff. then combo for days.

 

[cemo]

Sopo combos are definitely the most fun. Sometimes I get people with a magic bair, dsmash, to wavedash fsmash that eats their second jump and kills at like 40/50. Don't even see the jump come out, I think it's a frame trap that I get by chance? Since apparently there's a huge jump buffer in hitstun.

So who's going to Apex? Climbers gotta stick together, there will probably only be like 5 out of the 630 entrants.

 

[Nintendude]

I'll be there. Last year's bracket was rather unfortunate for ICs mains, so I'm hoping for some better luck this year. (last year I had mango R2 and Bladewise in losers while Wobbles had Armada and Vwins).

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Hey guys
I'm super into ICs and improvement again
aim is to become #1 in Australia (currently top 10, placed 5th at my last two majors)
expect vids and stuff

 

[cemo]

Armada is retired and Vwins isn't going, let us usher in an age of ice and death. I wish I played Vwins more considering my area but he only comes out when there's money. I want to be good enough vs Peach that I don't have to john about the Peach matchup anymore, that will take a lot of work.

and good stuff grim.

 

[Smasher89]

Did attend a tournament recently to break my break :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnuN7XRtJo
Any technical stuff i should be reminded of considering how the set played out? Might be one more set recorded but thatll probably be up after APEX14 in that case.

Grim-ill watch any vids if theres a recent set up.

 

[DrkRoxas]

I see the ICs are spreading out a lot, saw two of them in my trip to Florida, btw I've been off the forums for a while, are the podcasts still going on?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Grim-ill watch any vids if theres a recent set up.

I beat a Puff and Fox with ICs at my last major, but nothing was recorded :/
I have a tourney next weekend, hopefully I'll get some stuff recorded there.

 

[Tomber]

Did attend a tournament recently to break my break :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnuN7XRtJo
Any technical stuff i should be reminded of considering how the set played out? Might be one more set recorded but thatll probably be up after APEX14 in that case.

How did you end on Dream Land for the first match? Also, I don't really think FD is that good of a stage for ICs against Falcon. I like Yoshi's or FoD better. Anyway
Be more careful with your shield grabbing. In general, don't stay in shield as much as do against Falcon. Focus more on intercepting Falcon's attacks with your own moves and less on attacking OoS. Falcon's Fair and Dair can be countered with ICs' nair or utilt because it takes a while for Falcon's aerials to come out. Side-b can be stopped with f-tilt (or blizzard + other moves), and nair can often be countered by CCing. Practice your wobbling set ups if you want to go for wobbles at 0%. Otherwise don't go for them against a player who can mash out of a grab. Be careful with those full and double jumps.
I like your use of Side-b in the air.
If you are going to BEAST4 then I can show you some technical 20XX ICs stuff there.

 

[DrkRoxas]

Did attend a tournament recently to break my break :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNnuN7XRtJo
Any technical stuff i should be reminded of considering how the set played out? Might be one more set recorded but thatll probably be up after APEX14 in that case.

There were times you could've attempted a ledge regrab, which can be buffered with the throw quicker if your opponent is at a very low percent and might be more safe than starting the wobble right away (Wobbles tends to do this), then you can regrab him and start the wobble or just do more handoffs.
The other thing I noticed was that you sometimes DI'd Falcon's aerials to his direction which allowed him to hit you many times, other than that I can't really see more things that haven't been said already, I like your use of side-B too, keep up the good work.

 

[cemo]

doubles is fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0cvpyHqyK4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtnJyRABt6U i was outclassed in this one

 

[DrkRoxas]

doubles is fun.

Props to you on your edgeguards and tech chases on the first video, specially against Falco, you guys played it very well.
I'm going to two tournaments in the next two weekends and I'm going to team with a Sheik and a Falco respectively, what do you guys think of ICs options with both of them as teammates? Personally I like the ICs Sheik team a lot because of the air and edge coverage that she offers but I'd like to see the opinions of more experienced people in doubles, I really haven't played doubles that much.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I really want a dedicated teams partner, but my scene isn't strong enough :/
A Ganon would be sweet to team with, I reckon

 

[Tomber]

I've had the most succes teaming with Fox. ICs kind of needs to team with a character that can take on the 2v1 situation at times, because it takes so long for ICs to get back on stage once knocked off. ICs also needs a lot of space compered to other characters to work well in teams, which is why you might want to stay a bit away from the other players waiting for a opportunity to get some safe hits while your teammate is fighting. Kind of the same way as M2K plays in teams.Fox also has a great off stage and platform/air game for teams which is something ground-controlling character like ICs really needs. In singles ICs can just go to the edge and wait in order to edge guard an opponent you have just knocked off stage. However, in teams this is pretty risky as ICs in general is very vulnerable at the edge and your opponent's teammate might approach you while you're waiting at the edge. Teaming with a character that can control the edge at low risk while you control the center stage after one of you have knocked an opponent off is therefore pretty good.

Sheik and Peach are some great teammates for ICs as well for some of the same reasons as just mentioned. Both can control the edge very well and are in general very capable of edge guarding at low risk. They both can control the air/platforms very well, and while they might not be as good as Fox to win the 2v1 situation, Sheik and Peach can stall while you get back on stage either by camping the edge (Sheik) or floating out of reach (Peach). I've teamed a lot with Falco too and honestly I don't like it. He lacks KO power and is really vulnerable off stage compered to Fox, Sheik, and Peach. He isn't really that great in the 2v1 situation either. And if you by accident hit Falco with like a d-smash, he might have a really hard time recovering. With all that said then Falco isn't a bad teammate for ICs. It's just hard to make the team work.

Also, while it might be hard to play ICs efficiently in teams, teaming with ICs can be much harder. The player teaming with ICs kind of need to be at least just as good as the ICs player in order for the team to work. Both players also need to have a good understanding of teams play. Otherwise you'll just see a ICs player wave-smashing everyone on the stage while his teammate just tries to not get hit by the smashes.
So, yeah, talk with your teammate before playing. Tell him to finish your opponents off every time you hit them off stage with a smash while you take care of the other player/control the center. Tell him that you are going to stay a bit away from the battle while you wait for some safe hits (that is, if you're going to play this way). And lastly, tell him not to get to you if you happen to get a grab. Experienced ICs players can do more damage to a grabbed opponent than a teammate who tries to help you out. If you get a grab your teammate should focus on keeping the there player away.

 

[DrkRoxas]

Now I'm teaming with a Fox instead of a Falco (The switch happened a little after I wrote my comment), I can see the logic in all of your arguments, that really helped a lot, hopefully we can do a great job as a team, there's this one team that's my only concern with two of the top players and they are gonna play Fox and Falcon, that match is going to be really hard. Thanks for your advice.

 

[cemo]

I feel the Ice Climbers play more of a support role in teams. You want to aim for stage control and boxing out the other player with disjointed hitboxes, aiming for a 2v1. That's kinda the overall plan I feel, and I think they can actually play this role well. Since by nature they're kinda more defensive and hard to approach. But that might just be what style fits me.

I really want a dedicated teams partner, but my scene isn't strong enough :/
A Ganon would be sweet to team with, I reckon

It's a lot of fun to team with just be careful with Nana. Sometimes we would go for the same punish or I would move to a bad spot and get faired.


edit: so it looks like if i win my first match at apex i'm playing plup. any advice on the samus MU?

 

[Tomber]

Use lots of ice blocks. Make Samus approach you. Ice blocks and f-tilt can be used to counter missiles (Plup likes to use a lot of those in this MU IIRC). Try to protect Nana from the missiles. Punish d-tilt and d-smash with WD OoS->wobbling. Dash attack, bair and uair are good moves to rank up damage. Be aware of Samus' CC.

Yeah, that's what I have. It's a tricky MU for ICs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxrHlNEV51Y

 

[Grim Tuesday]

http://www.twitch.tv/masonspangler

Ice Climbers tech skill practice and experimenting with desyncs/combos/etc...

if that's your thing, have a watch
the quality might be abysmal idk

----------

I found out that you can crouch when nana is doing dumb dashing **** and it'll cancel it, so she's still in the 'controlled by popo' state when that happens, so that's cool

desynced alternating bairs are retardedly hard >_>
I'm pretty sure you have to do the bair during the landing lag of the other climber to prevent it from fsmashing (fsmash means I did it too late), if someone could break down the frames for this I'd appreciate it, otherwise I might look at it myself

alternating nairs are pretty cool though, way easier and I feel like you could still put on some solid pressure with sh nair with one climber into someone's shield? just get nana to handle whatever their response is. Dair might be better for this, I should check

I tried for a while and couldn't get it, I don't think - is it possible to hit the opponent with the hammer part of ice shot during any of ICs throws to pop the opponent up (while they are still being thrown, not after they have a chance to DI)?

I think I'll be able to get my pivot and landing desyncs to a viable consistency if I just keep at them, I feel like there is so much unexplored potential there

I realized that after a bthrow I should always walk forwards a little, cause then I'm pretty sure I can cover everything they do on reaction??? (correct me if I'm wrong)

------

I might stream again in a few hours, I'll be practicing more of that stuff, dthrow > utilt, hand-off setups from various places, maybe some other stuff...uthrow and weak uair follow-ups too probably

 

[Tuesday]

OMG FLY that fmash handoff was the sickest thing I've ever seen. I need a new keyboard.

 

[DerfMidWest]

My thoughts on the ICs in teams:
they ain't dat bad. they just need to have the right partners.
They really need the ground, so if they have a partner who can play well on platforms in neutral that's ideal.
They also benefit from the "bully" strategy (walling people out while one partner craps on one of the opponents)
The ICs are both good at being a wall and solo-comboing things (they are really better at it than team comboing in a lot of cases)

Sopo is also still a ****ing god in teams :')

Teams that work well:
Falco
Fox
Falcon
Sheik
Peach (oddly enough)

Teams that suck:
Luigi (oh god why)
Marth (too much trying to control the same space)
Samus

my personal favorite partners are falco, falcon, and sheik.

 

[cemo]

I think I'll be teaming with a Puff at the next monthly, not too sure how that will work out.

 

[DrkRoxas]

In the recent tournament my first match was against a Peach... If I won I had to fight another Peach lol, I lost and then beat a Sheik only to find myself against a Samus after that. Bad luck is bad, I really struggle with those two matchups, I can't seem to find the space to enter and hit them, and then I just lose control, salt up and start doing stupid things. Any advices?

 

[cemo]

vs Samus you have to learn how to deal with missiles before you can actually play the matchup (f-tilts iceblocks and dairs can do this)
after that samus is just going to poke at you a lot with f-tilt, spotdodge, cc dsmash. coming back from the ledge samus often ledgehops a missile. try to iceblock their grapple when they recover. if you get knocked away you have to make your way through missiles again.

Peach you have to be really precise, quick bairs and up airs are all you can really challenge her in the air with. on the ground sometimes i can trade f-smash with float fair. get used to the timing of punishing downsmash. use blizzards if they don't float high enough. (the right float height for peach is above your smashes/tilts, but low enough so you can't up air safely) peach kills nana in like 3 hits from 0%, so you have to really be on point defensively. learn to catch turnips so you can look cool.