DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Going to a local tournament saturday. Gonna try to MM/play Abu, HankyPanky, BigR, Drephen (if he goes), and Mango (he's considering going) on stream. Will post videos when they're up.
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Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
cemo
white walker
Nice, good luck! I'm heading to Montreal's first monthly this Sunday, ft. Kage, Unknown, and Montreal's secret boss. I'll try to do the same.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i may start going to tournaments again in january or february
Vanitas
Smash Ace
Hey guys, when does Fair become a meteor spike? I always have difficulty judging if I should tech chase if it spikes or if the fair will pop the enemy into the air?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
there's only one time i can guarantee the fair spike.. when i do the popo fthrow to nana fair combo
i try to hit the very top of the hitbox. i know that sometimes there is a hitbox in the middle that also spikes, but i can't be consistent with it
can anyone judge which hitbox does what? is it the inner "hilt" hitbox that does the spike?
i try to hit the very top of the hitbox. i know that sometimes there is a hitbox in the middle that also spikes, but i can't be consistent with it
can anyone judge which hitbox does what? is it the inner "hilt" hitbox that does the spike?
From my experience it's the inner part of each hitbox that is a meteor. It's hard to be consistent with it though, as choknater says.
Reminds me of this:
http://youtu.be/ghTE8hGX77U?t=33m20s
I was so sad after that ending, haha. So close to being a 3 stock come back.
Reminds me of this:
http://youtu.be/ghTE8hGX77U?t=33m20s
I was so sad after that ending, haha. So close to being a 3 stock come back.
cemo
white walker
i am pretty inconsistent in getting the meteor. and next time you'll make a 4 stock comeback i'm sure. 
there was a new ice climbers player at a weekly and i told him he'd need to learn how to wavedash. now he plays puff or something ):
i didn't mean to crush his dreams
there was a new ice climbers player at a weekly and i told him he'd need to learn how to wavedash. now he plays puff or something ):
i didn't mean to crush his dreams
choknater
Smash Obsessed
LOL
still a useful tool to wavedash even with puff
it is probably least necessary with peach or link
but even then
more options
still a useful tool to wavedash even with puff
it is probably least necessary with peach or link
but even then
more options
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Yeah it's the inner hitbox. That's why when you space fair, it always pops them up.
With the fthrow->fair they get smacked into nana's butt.
That's usually what I try to do to get the meteor, just keep them in your butt.
Never let them go.
That's true happiness.
With the fthrow->fair they get smacked into nana's butt.
That's usually what I try to do to get the meteor, just keep them in your butt.
Never let them go.
That's true happiness.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
so the spike is inside nana's butt...
i see...
i see...
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I mean its really by their hands on the hammer, but yeah, give 'em the butt.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I'm disappointed with how I played today. Lost in winners to a samus. Really bad at that MU.
Then lost to a ganon in losers.
The ganon was good, but I am very frustrated.
I don't lose to ganon.
I kept getting impatient and not punishing him as well as I should have. Let myself get shield pressured.
very infuriating experience.
I refuse to drop a set to ganon again.
Also could not hold a wobble all day.
beat a few people before getting knocked out though lol.
got to meet chu and trail though, which was pretty cool. Helpful.
Also played a bunch of friendlies with Abu, which really helped me understand the puff MU a little better.
No recorded matches though, poorly run tournament with no recording setups except the stream, which was not available ever.
Then lost to a ganon in losers.
The ganon was good, but I am very frustrated.
I don't lose to ganon.
I kept getting impatient and not punishing him as well as I should have. Let myself get shield pressured.
very infuriating experience.
I refuse to drop a set to ganon again.
Also could not hold a wobble all day.
beat a few people before getting knocked out though lol.
got to meet chu and trail though, which was pretty cool. Helpful.
Also played a bunch of friendlies with Abu, which really helped me understand the puff MU a little better.
No recorded matches though, poorly run tournament with no recording setups except the stream, which was not available ever.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
:X dang man
i counter pick both of those characters now just to make it easier on myself LOL
i counter pick both of those characters now just to make it easier on myself LOL
Damn, so many negative words.
Alright. Firstly, don't be so hard to yourself. You shouldn't think "I can't lose to this player" or " I shouldn't have lost that match" etc. Goals like "I refuse to lose to this character" makes you no good and might even make things worse. It's straight up a bad mind set. Take you loss with you and let it help you figure out why you lost and what you can do better next time. You were impatient? Great, try to be more patient next time. Not punishing hard enough? Practice your punish game against some CPUs/ weaker Ganon players. Getting shield pressured? Work on your movement, spacing and OoS game.
And even if things don't work out as you want them to next time you fight a Ganon, don't let it get into your head. This is probably the most important message. Mistakes indicate which aspects of your game you should put some some work into. However, no matter how much you practice some specific tech skill then miss inputs, miss timings and other sorts of mistakes might still happen in the heat of the battle. Your goal shouldn't be to do everything perfectly without making any mistakes at all. A mind set like this will just make you frustrated and sad every time you make the smallest mistake which will just make you play worse. Always keep in mind that failure is possible, both when it comes to doing something right / wrong and when it comes to winning / losing. Sure you should try to make as few mistakes all possible. That's why practicing is important. However, perfection isn't about doing everything perfectly every time. It's about making mistakes without letting them affect you. You should't try to avoid mistakes. You should try to resist them. The same goes for match ups you think you're bad at, like Samus in this case. Winning or losing doesn't matter if you're not learning anything from the match.
You can apply this to your wobbling game too. Let's say you drop a wobble and end up losing a tournament game because of it. It sucks, sure, but you can't do anything about it so you shouldn't let it affect you. Because it will make you no good. Going into the following game with thoughts like "I can't drop the next wobble no matter what" will just make it much more likely that you'll drop it. And more importantly, it will take your focus away from the only thing that really matters: the next game. Then after the set or the tournament has ended you can look back and think about what you did that worked out well and what you need to work on. If you dropped pretty much every wobble the whole tournament then you can work on improving that part of your game. Was it due to nerves, sets up errors, or perhaps because your timing was a little off? Once you have a idea about what caused your mistakes you can start think of ways to practice that will make it more unlikely that you'll do the same kind of mistakes again. Of course you'll make some of the same mistakes again from time to time, but if you practice is efficient then you'll make them less frequently which is you goal.
Mistakes and bad plays are really important in order for any player to become better. However, with the wrong mind set they will make you no good and will just result in frustration and make the game less fun to play in a competitive setting. Getting a good mind set can be hard though. However, it's something you can work on all the time and you can use it in your everyday life too. And once you get there, you'll see that it will affect your results too and you'll improve at a much faster rate I've worked a lot on my mind set throughout the years, and when it comes to smash I've made some quite amazing come backs and won "important" tournament sets because I don't really get frustrated when I make mistakes (which I do all the time). My set against Scar at Evo is a good example of this. As I've also mentioned in my guide then you can't really be successful with Ice Climbers if you can't handle bull ****. ICs is the most chaotic character in Melee and lots of stupid stuff happen all the time (both to you and your opponent). Use the chaos to your advantage.
And also, don't get frustrated if you get frustrated even though you tried to avoid getting frustrated (you get the idea). Stuff like this takes time. It's like when you meditate the first time with the goal "Don't think about anything; don't let anything distract you" in mind. This is pretty much impossible the first time you try it, but it get better with time.
TL;DR
Process > Results
cemo
white walker
Ganon is a hard matchup so that attitude might give you trouble. Being impatient or making small mistakes can get you punished really hard. Trail's match vs Kage was finally uploaded, though. There isn't a lot of high level ICs vs Ganon videos out there so this is good.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
haha sorry was grumpy when I made my last post.
3 am and just made a 3 hour drive home.
It's w/e.
3 am and just made a 3 hour drive home.
It's w/e.
HoChiMinhTrail
Smash Master
God damnit, I got rolled
Prince_Abu
Smash Lord
kind of like wut happened at another recent tournament amirite
Vanitas
Smash Ace
^That's a scary dp LOL great anime though
Question to all you climbers.
Assuming Nanas still with you, how would you capitalize on a fastfaller DI'ing away from you when you are grabbing them if they are not in kill percentage yet? Up smashing usually sends them too far for one to follow up and Dair chain grabbing is not an option if they are DI'ing diagonally away and down. I am just experimenting with mix ups right now haha...Thoughts?
Question to all you climbers.
Assuming Nanas still with you, how would you capitalize on a fastfaller DI'ing away from you when you are grabbing them if they are not in kill percentage yet? Up smashing usually sends them too far for one to follow up and Dair chain grabbing is not an option if they are DI'ing diagonally away and down. I am just experimenting with mix ups right now haha...Thoughts?
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
A really cool mix-up I found (assuming you are talking about Fox and Falco) is b-throw to f-air. You need to execute the b-throw first so Nana turns around. If they try to DI away, they end up DIing towards you, and the f-air pops them up back into grab range. If they figure out what you're doing, they might be able to react and switch their DI before the f-air, but if you can even pull this off once it racks up a fair amount of damage and seriously messes with their ability to DI.
Alternatively, you can just go for charge f-smash. Even at low percents, they should be scared to DI away, and you might be able to trick them into DIing towards you for the regrab (potential weakness is mashing out before the throw).
At lowest percents, you can go for u-throw -> dash attack regrab. If they land on a platform you have a good chance of getting a tech chase into handoff.
Alternatively, you can just go for charge f-smash. Even at low percents, they should be scared to DI away, and you might be able to trick them into DIing towards you for the regrab (potential weakness is mashing out before the throw).
At lowest percents, you can go for u-throw -> dash attack regrab. If they land on a platform you have a good chance of getting a tech chase into handoff.
cemo
white walker
reverse dair doesn't work to mix up their DI too? i'm not actually sure how useful it is anymore, when i stopped playing it was "inescapable" which obviously isn't the case now. i've seen fly do a b-throw ice block which looks pretty useful, although in my experience people tech everytime so i'm not sure when i should go for it. you could try a straight up d-throw chain if you're confident of their DI.
i remember seeing someone get all hype about this falcon combo that used a d-tilt to poke someone before their tech so they flubbed the next tech. could the Icies do something similar? like, poke fox/falco with a d-tilt before they hit the ground, jab reset into regrab/f-smash
i remember seeing someone get all hype about this falcon combo that used a d-tilt to poke someone before their tech so they flubbed the next tech. could the Icies do something similar? like, poke fox/falco with a d-tilt before they hit the ground, jab reset into regrab/f-smash
When I'm confident that the other players can DI out of the down-throw dair chain I go for either (1) down throw to regrab or down throw -> up-smash tech chase hoping they'll miss the tech; (2) Up throw to dash attack or platform tech chase is also a solid choice.
http://youtu.be/6PkERODHwHA?t=3m48s (1)
http://youtu.be/ojdvDaRAHoY?t=18m15s (2)
http://youtu.be/6PkERODHwHA?t=3m48s (1)
http://youtu.be/ojdvDaRAHoY?t=18m15s (2)
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
This seems like a cool idea. Would d-tilt put them out of tumble though?
cemo
white walker
seems to only work when you get to 60%+, at least from messing around against CPUs. couldn't really do it off a d-throw if they DI'd away, maybe you could hit it off a nair or something? i feel like the majority of the time you could hit the d-tilt you could probably land a grab instead, but i think it could be useful for solo popo.
these are just impressions of a mediocre player though
these are just impressions of a mediocre player though
choknater
Smash Obsessed
dtilt is a fun and situational way to combo
a nice pop up poke
a nice pop up poke
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
dtilt is very fun near the ledge, imo. depending on how they DI, you can get away with a lot of dumb **** off of it.
dtilt->fair looks real funny.
also , does anyone know what percents dthrow->Nana fair->regrab works on different characters?
I know I can do it consistently at low percent when they are unable to tech, but I've also landed it at higher percents before too (often by accident), it seems like it would be an infinite on some characters, but I don't know enough about it.
dtilt->fair looks real funny.
also , does anyone know what percents dthrow->Nana fair->regrab works on different characters?
I know I can do it consistently at low percent when they are unable to tech, but I've also landed it at higher percents before too (often by accident), it seems like it would be an infinite on some characters, but I don't know enough about it.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
sorry for the doubles post:
So I've been thinking about the ganon mu a lot since my last tournament, and the thing I noticed having the most trouble with was when he'd do that dumb waveland->fair thing and then jab when he lands, I would mess up the timing to get under him with wd utilt and then if I tried to shield the fair and punish, the jab would usually **** nana up.
So what I'm thinking now is that I could bait that fair and the jab and then punish with dd->dash attack?
So I've been thinking about the ganon mu a lot since my last tournament, and the thing I noticed having the most trouble with was when he'd do that dumb waveland->fair thing and then jab when he lands, I would mess up the timing to get under him with wd utilt and then if I tried to shield the fair and punish, the jab would usually **** nana up.
So what I'm thinking now is that I could bait that fair and the jab and then punish with dd->dash attack?
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
So I went to a tourney this weekend. I did much better than I expected in teams and really poorly in teams.
I won a set in my pool versus a scrub and lost every other set.
I got like 4/5 in teams though, won a 1 versus 2 comeback versus HomeMadeWaffls and Violence (fox and samus) that felt super baller because in singles they both whoop me.
Really excited to keep practicing, my tech skill is the only thing that is holding me back, so simple to practice but so boring I dont have the discipline to do it yet.
I am excited for Kings of Cali 3.
I won a set in my pool versus a scrub and lost every other set.
I got like 4/5 in teams though, won a 1 versus 2 comeback versus HomeMadeWaffls and Violence (fox and samus) that felt super baller because in singles they both whoop me.
Really excited to keep practicing, my tech skill is the only thing that is holding me back, so simple to practice but so boring I dont have the discipline to do it yet.
I am excited for Kings of Cali 3.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
usin ic's in doubles?
cemo
white walker
a good thing to remember about ganon is that his aerials come out pretty slowly, if he's jumping around willy nilly you should be punishing that. this is scary though. try to bait out the wizards foot, ganon will try to hit you with it when he reads a wavedash forward or something. ganons just love making hard reads because it is manly and makes you feel good.
i went to rom 6 with montreal and we all got wrecked 'cause we scrubs, but i learned a lot. cactuar put the fear of fox into me.
i went to rom 6 with montreal and we all got wrecked 'cause we scrubs, but i learned a lot. cactuar put the fear of fox into me.
BlindSpot
Smash Apprentice
I have a question about the mechanics of wobbling. I saw that d-tilt traps the opponent, and allows you to continue pummeling. So my question is, in a 2v1 situation, shouldn't I be able to pummel, and my partner jab or something to keep them locked?
If there's a way to infinite someone in a 2v1, let me know please.
If there's a way to infinite someone in a 2v1, let me know please.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
sounds like an unreasonably hard thing to do if you have both climbers... wobbling is already an infinite by itself and i wouldn't risk the opponent knocking them out
unless you mean you're solo popo and you grab in a 2v1 situation... then if your partner has rapid jabs then you can lock them in
unless you mean you're solo popo and you grab in a 2v1 situation... then if your partner has rapid jabs then you can lock them in
BlindSpot
Smash Apprentice
I'm speaking of any character. Shouldn't it be possible for other characters if it is for ICs?
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Yeah, it is possible with other characters as well, it's not IC specific.
BlindSpot
Smash Apprentice
What moves have to be used? Because when I try, I hit them out of the grab. Is there a specific timing? Like in wobbling.
Most weak moves can be used to create an infinite in a 2v1 situation with proper timing and spacing. It's quite easy with moves like Pikachu's jab.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
yeah pikachu's rapid jab, kirby's rapid jab, sheik's rapid jab are all very easy to do it with
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
lol pretty much every character with a rapid jab can do it if they space so that it doesn't hit whoever is holding the grab.
you can also do it with ganon/falcon/samus' ftilts
and you can do it with fox/falco dair->shines
and a bunch of other things.
you can also do it with ganon/falcon/samus' ftilts
and you can do it with fox/falco dair->shines
and a bunch of other things.
mexicanmax227
Smash Apprentice
Hey melee guys whose the closest smash melee players closest to Clinton, MS? Im off for thanksgiving and want to practice my matchups. Im a peach main and can play marth, sheik, fox, falco, falcon, jiggs and some low tiers. Im trying to train specifically my peach and can offer yall my others as practice for yalls matchups. Let me know :D. MELEE ONLY LOL icies would be great practice
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I think this was the only set I got recorded at fp3...
except maybe one with wenbo, but I can't find that one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saTF0FQcYd8
I was playing really lazy this tournament, but I think my movement was pretty good...
It was just pools, so I was just kinda messing around.
My punishes were really lazy, and my grab things were not wracking on enough damage as they could have been.
I really needed to be going for stronger punishes, even if it was just pools.
I did some pretty dumb stuff that I got punished while trying to go for fancy setups like second game I went for the fair through platform to pick him up, even though it's a bad idea against marth and I could have done something way better.
But whatever.
Advice would be great though ^^
after watching it again I noticed that I did a lot of unsafe desyncs and got punished for them. My blizzards were pretty unsafe sometimes and I needed to be paying attention to his position more.
With edgeguards I needed to just throw nana onto the ledge and punish him. I need to do that more in general, but I really like it in the marth/sheik matchups.
except maybe one with wenbo, but I can't find that one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saTF0FQcYd8
I was playing really lazy this tournament, but I think my movement was pretty good...
It was just pools, so I was just kinda messing around.
My punishes were really lazy, and my grab things were not wracking on enough damage as they could have been.
I really needed to be going for stronger punishes, even if it was just pools.
I did some pretty dumb stuff that I got punished while trying to go for fancy setups like second game I went for the fair through platform to pick him up, even though it's a bad idea against marth and I could have done something way better.
But whatever.
Advice would be great though ^^
after watching it again I noticed that I did a lot of unsafe desyncs and got punished for them. My blizzards were pretty unsafe sometimes and I needed to be paying attention to his position more.
With edgeguards I needed to just throw nana onto the ledge and punish him. I need to do that more in general, but I really like it in the marth/sheik matchups.