Binx
Smash Master
Nice match ha
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Social General Ice Climber Chat
- Thread starter dj asakura
- Start date
Just finished my guide about wobbling. Check it out.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
awesome guide!!!
hey guys i just got back from lanhammer
i made it to top 32 on the losers side
but
i can't go back there tomorrow. i got 2nd in my pool but i gave the 3rd place guy my spot for the bracket. i didn't tell him this before we played though, so i made the match exciting
hey guys i just got back from lanhammer
i made it to top 32 on the losers side
but
i can't go back there tomorrow. i got 2nd in my pool but i gave the 3rd place guy my spot for the bracket. i didn't tell him this before we played though, so i made the match exciting
Haha, good ****. 
And thanks! I hope other ICs mains will read it too.
Also, here are some of my bracket matches from the Gamecenter VI tournament. I don't think I played that well overall as I did quite a few crucial mistakes, but I had my moments.
Vs. Phil (Fox) (4:03)
Vs. Ahmad (Fox/Falco)
Vs. Darrell (Samus)
Vs. Scar (Falcon) - rematch
Feel free to criticize.
And thanks! I hope other ICs mains will read it too.
Also, here are some of my bracket matches from the Gamecenter VI tournament. I don't think I played that well overall as I did quite a few crucial mistakes, but I had my moments.
Vs. Phil (Fox) (4:03)
Vs. Ahmad (Fox/Falco)
Vs. Darrell (Samus)
Vs. Scar (Falcon) - rematch
Feel free to criticize.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
I don't play much anymore, but there was this big regional 10 miles from where I live, so I decided to drive over and see if I could make it into the final bracket (it was a circuit championship, so there were pools, bracket, and from there top 8 moved on to "pro bracket"). Unfortunately I didn't place anywhere near my goal. In retrospect, I think every single one of the matches I lost could've been a solid victory with some minor adjustments to my play, but between messing up basic punishes and choking at crucial moments, I never managed to pull through.
Here's my only match that got recorded...
My opponent didn't seem very comfortable against ICs... he threw out lots of easily cc-able and shieldgrabbable approaches, and I think for the most part I took advantage of them (minus a few shielded d-smashes that went unpunished), but I squandered almost all of the subsequent grabs. Guess I thought my muscles would remember how to chain throw, so I didn't bother practicing any grab combos beforehand... big mistake. Anyways, aside from my atrocious grab game, I was wondering if you guys could point out anything I should have done differently. I've sort of plateaued in smash ability, so any suggestions for areas I could improve in would be greatly appreciated.
Here's my only match that got recorded...
My opponent didn't seem very comfortable against ICs... he threw out lots of easily cc-able and shieldgrabbable approaches, and I think for the most part I took advantage of them (minus a few shielded d-smashes that went unpunished), but I squandered almost all of the subsequent grabs. Guess I thought my muscles would remember how to chain throw, so I didn't bother practicing any grab combos beforehand... big mistake. Anyways, aside from my atrocious grab game, I was wondering if you guys could point out anything I should have done differently. I've sort of plateaued in smash ability, so any suggestions for areas I could improve in would be greatly appreciated.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
dang yeah i watched that live
hm i'm too tired to give an in depth analysis but maybe i'll take a look later
but i just wanna say
i became a hax fanboy while watching that stream. he's so amazing.
hm i'm too tired to give an in depth analysis but maybe i'll take a look later
but i just wanna say
i became a hax fanboy while watching that stream. he's so amazing.
A-1
Smash Rookie
hey i would really appreciate some critique ive posted here before. my match starts at 6:03:00
anything at all would be helpful thanks guys.
http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/451407513
Binx
Smash Master
Hey all im excited to have smashboards back. Whats everyone been up to?
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I'm back. This is my first tournament in like over half a year, got 13th.
Also mango moved to ohio, so cool ****.
anyway, advice would be great! My gameplay has a lot of obvious holes in it right now, especially in consistency with wobbling, chaingrabs (+handoff), and decision making/patience, but I feel pretty good about my performance.
vs .Dempt (Marth/Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6tHcwFOM7Q
I feel really good about this set, even though I lost. I have made significant improvement against dempt and in the marth mu. There are some obvious technical errors and bad decisions on my part, but I feel good about the set.
vs Ders (Young Link)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvfDZhdSNqc
This set I really just did whatever because yeah. I easily could have done a lot better.
vs Sweet (Sheik)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRo9vBLntZw
I was pretty dumb this set. I needed to play patient and be consistent with my grab combos. My sopo could have done better too. Also when we struck I decided to strike battlefield and fountain, and he struck fd and yoshi's. I should have struck dreamland and bf instead (normally I'm very comfortable on dreamland, but I should have remembered that sweet is a campy sheik), I definitely would have done better on a smaller stage.
Also I need to be consistent with my ground and wall techs, because stupid things happened. There was also a big problem with the way I was using shield and getting out of it.
Still, I preformed better in this set than I have against sweet in the past, so not all bad.
I had a few other games recorded as well, but they haven't been uploaded yet.
Also mango moved to ohio, so cool ****.
anyway, advice would be great! My gameplay has a lot of obvious holes in it right now, especially in consistency with wobbling, chaingrabs (+handoff), and decision making/patience, but I feel pretty good about my performance.
vs .Dempt (Marth/Fox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6tHcwFOM7Q
I feel really good about this set, even though I lost. I have made significant improvement against dempt and in the marth mu. There are some obvious technical errors and bad decisions on my part, but I feel good about the set.
vs Ders (Young Link)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvfDZhdSNqc
This set I really just did whatever because yeah. I easily could have done a lot better.
vs Sweet (Sheik)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRo9vBLntZw
I was pretty dumb this set. I needed to play patient and be consistent with my grab combos. My sopo could have done better too. Also when we struck I decided to strike battlefield and fountain, and he struck fd and yoshi's. I should have struck dreamland and bf instead (normally I'm very comfortable on dreamland, but I should have remembered that sweet is a campy sheik), I definitely would have done better on a smaller stage.
Also I need to be consistent with my ground and wall techs, because stupid things happened. There was also a big problem with the way I was using shield and getting out of it.
Still, I preformed better in this set than I have against sweet in the past, so not all bad.
I had a few other games recorded as well, but they haven't been uploaded yet.
I only watched your sets against Ders and Dempt, but I noticed at few things:
- The main thing you should work on is being more consistent with your technical game. You put yourself in a lot of bad positions because of miss inputs. I also think you should get a lot more out of the grabs you land. Learn the wobbling timing (you're pressing way too fast) and, perhaps, try relax a little when you get a grab. You do a lot of "rushed" moves when you get a grab, smashing your opponent away too fast when you could have gotten a lot more % off the grab, with or without wobbling.
- You do a lot of WD'ing towards your opponent when you're near him. When this can indeed work in some cases you have to keep in mind that WD is very laggy and therefore easy to punish. Shielding close to an opponent is in general a bad position for ICs because you can't approach. When you find yourself in this position it is often better to WD back and regain neutral position. If timed right you might even catch your opponent if he tries to approach you while you're shielding. Also, when you do WD in you nearly always goes for a down-smash. It's probably just a habit, but try to mix it up. WD towards to grab, to SH aerial, to shield, to f/up-smash, or just to crouch (cancel) all have their uses.
- Think more about your desyncs. You do catch your opponent a few times with them, but you alway seem to throw them out without purpose. The same goes for your rolls. Think more about them. Never roll unless there's a reason.
With that said I think you've improved a lot since the last video I watched of you playing. You seem to have a decent understanding of the game and a lot of the stuff you need to get better at (besides the things I just mentioned) should come with experience (decision making, spacing, reads, DI ect).
- The main thing you should work on is being more consistent with your technical game. You put yourself in a lot of bad positions because of miss inputs. I also think you should get a lot more out of the grabs you land. Learn the wobbling timing (you're pressing way too fast) and, perhaps, try relax a little when you get a grab. You do a lot of "rushed" moves when you get a grab, smashing your opponent away too fast when you could have gotten a lot more % off the grab, with or without wobbling.
- You do a lot of WD'ing towards your opponent when you're near him. When this can indeed work in some cases you have to keep in mind that WD is very laggy and therefore easy to punish. Shielding close to an opponent is in general a bad position for ICs because you can't approach. When you find yourself in this position it is often better to WD back and regain neutral position. If timed right you might even catch your opponent if he tries to approach you while you're shielding. Also, when you do WD in you nearly always goes for a down-smash. It's probably just a habit, but try to mix it up. WD towards to grab, to SH aerial, to shield, to f/up-smash, or just to crouch (cancel) all have their uses.
- Think more about your desyncs. You do catch your opponent a few times with them, but you alway seem to throw them out without purpose. The same goes for your rolls. Think more about them. Never roll unless there's a reason.
With that said I think you've improved a lot since the last video I watched of you playing. You seem to have a decent understanding of the game and a lot of the stuff you need to get better at (besides the things I just mentioned) should come with experience (decision making, spacing, reads, DI ect).
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I appreciate the advice. I definitely need to get wobbling down again, because I haven't re-learned it since coming back.
And just being consistent in general.
I'd love if you could give me advice on that last set, because I struggled there the most. Mostly with impatience and technical errors, but yeah.
And just being consistent in general.
I'd love if you could give me advice on that last set, because I struggled there the most. Mostly with impatience and technical errors, but yeah.
Alright.
- Again, you should be really careful when WD'ing towards your opponent. Especially against Sheik because her moves are really fast and don't have a lot lag. The same goes for running towards her. You eat a lot of down-smashes and fairs in that set because you run/WD into when. Try to bait Sheiks moves more and punish instead of approaching.
- When you hit your opponent with Ice blocks and blizzard then always be ready to WD in and go for a hard punish like grab. This is something I've worked on myself recently. I use a lot of single ice block desyncs ("glide desync") when I play. If I see that the ice block connects then I do a quick WD in and go for the grab which most of the time results in a KO for me with wobbling. If they jump over the block I'll try to catch them in the air, ect. I'm in general not a big fan of the continuous desync ice wall that keeps shooting ice blocks and blizzard, but players like Fly and Wobbles make it work from time to time so it has its uses, but it's more like a gimmick in most match ups. I don't think it should be used as much you use it in that set, however. It's risky and you rarely get anything big out of it.
- Think more about how fast your moves are and how big the openings you get are. For example, if Sheik is recovering and is in a lag animation then make sure that you can get to her and hit her before she can move again. If you realize that you can't get to her in time then don't go for the direct punish but bait out something you can punish like roll/spot dodge/jump/shield.
- The down throw dair chain shouldn't work on sheik. Go for something else like down throw -> smash/sh bait at high %.
- If you do a smash with Nana while your opponent is grabbed then the smash only does half the damage. You should always time the smash so that it connects right after the throw animation has ended for maximum damage. This is important. Never do a smash while you're grabbing someone. Catch them off the to throw.
- Try not to go for down-smash every time you CC a move (this is something I'm working on myself). Especially when you're at high %. You will not get anything out of it.
- You can wave-shield off the edge to make sure that Nana won't kill herself when you taking the edge (like around 7:00 in the video).
- Again, you should be really careful when WD'ing towards your opponent. Especially against Sheik because her moves are really fast and don't have a lot lag. The same goes for running towards her. You eat a lot of down-smashes and fairs in that set because you run/WD into when. Try to bait Sheiks moves more and punish instead of approaching.
- When you hit your opponent with Ice blocks and blizzard then always be ready to WD in and go for a hard punish like grab. This is something I've worked on myself recently. I use a lot of single ice block desyncs ("glide desync") when I play. If I see that the ice block connects then I do a quick WD in and go for the grab which most of the time results in a KO for me with wobbling. If they jump over the block I'll try to catch them in the air, ect. I'm in general not a big fan of the continuous desync ice wall that keeps shooting ice blocks and blizzard, but players like Fly and Wobbles make it work from time to time so it has its uses, but it's more like a gimmick in most match ups. I don't think it should be used as much you use it in that set, however. It's risky and you rarely get anything big out of it.
- Think more about how fast your moves are and how big the openings you get are. For example, if Sheik is recovering and is in a lag animation then make sure that you can get to her and hit her before she can move again. If you realize that you can't get to her in time then don't go for the direct punish but bait out something you can punish like roll/spot dodge/jump/shield.
- The down throw dair chain shouldn't work on sheik. Go for something else like down throw -> smash/sh bait at high %.
- If you do a smash with Nana while your opponent is grabbed then the smash only does half the damage. You should always time the smash so that it connects right after the throw animation has ended for maximum damage. This is important. Never do a smash while you're grabbing someone. Catch them off the to throw.
- Try not to go for down-smash every time you CC a move (this is something I'm working on myself). Especially when you're at high %. You will not get anything out of it.
- You can wave-shield off the edge to make sure that Nana won't kill herself when you taking the edge (like around 7:00 in the video).
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Thanks that helps a lot.
I should be going to two tournaments tomorrow, so I'll definitely try to get some more games recorded then as well after trying to work on these things.
I should be going to two tournaments tomorrow, so I'll definitely try to get some more games recorded then as well after trying to work on these things.
cemo
white walker
i miss playing this game. how useful would that uh, up b cancel? (where popo grabs the ledge but nana continues the belay. wobbles does it all day) be for edgeguarding? do people ever just wavedash back and do it to cover high and grab the ledge? at least at percentages where you can combo them into bair or something.
edit: there was a little thread started by peef but that's all i saw about it. i think nana rocket is a silly name though and will call it belay cancelling.
edit: there was a little thread started by peef but that's all i saw about it. i think nana rocket is a silly name though and will call it belay cancelling.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
I think most people just call it up+b cancel. If someone is recovering high, usually u-air is better because the timing is less strict and it combos into b-air more reliably.
cemo
white walker
it would be so stylish, i am just blinded by the coolpoints of hitting people with belay.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
nana rockeeeeeeet
it's fun.
it's fun.
Engo
Smash Ace
Has anyone tried desynch walling falcon? Just thinking about it, it seems like Falcon would have a pretty hard time getting through it. I never see good ic's do this in this matchup though.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
It's extremely easy for Falcon to get around desynch walls, generally with a knee or a stomp.
HammerTime
Smash Journeyman
Works every now and then especially if you do it underneath a platform but if you rely on it too much the falcon can easily just come in from above with a stomp --> knee and then nana's basically dead after that. I do think it should be used a bit more often than most IC players do right now but it's not the most reliable thing in every situation/on every stage, especially larger ones like FD or stadium.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
nope. doesn't work very well at all. he goes right through it.
I like to use single ice blocks against Falcon to get him into the air. The most common way to punish ice blocks and blizzard with falcon is jumping over and stomp or knee. Both of these moves are rather slow and can be interrupted by faster moves like ICs' nair, bair, dair or uair before their hitboxes come out. One of Falcon's weaknesses in this match up is that his best moves against ICs are slow and the ICs have some pretty fast aerials.
But yeah, making desynch walls against Falcon is in general a high risk/high reward option that becomes less viable the more experienced the Falcon player is.
But yeah, making desynch walls against Falcon is in general a high risk/high reward option that becomes less viable the more experienced the Falcon player is.
Engo
Smash Ace
Alright thanks I'll remember this. My main issue is falcon shffling knees and stomps. When falcon is full jumping it's a lot easier because I can try and track his movement and interrupt it with up airs/bairs or something. When it's shffling it's so fast and low that before I know it I'm in shield getting pressured.
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
You can interrupt his movement even when he is staying closer to the ground. Just preempt him and cut off his movement rather than trying to punish specific moves.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Who's going to Big House 3?
HammerTime
Smash Journeyman
I'll be there
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
I find myself using a lot of nairs lately. It's a fun move. At low percents, dthrow->nair cg is pretty fancy looking imo.
I also like the way it hits people and I can usually follow it up with another nair, utilt, or uair.
I also like the way it hits people and I can usually follow it up with another nair, utilt, or uair.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I'm not going to travel cross-country to a tourney that arbitrarily nerfs my character.
HammerTime
Smash Journeyman
Awww no Wobbles and no Fly? There's not enough IC representation at this tourney! lol
Engo
Smash Ace
Wait Fly are you really not going because Wobbling is banned? Wasn't it banned at the 2nd one too?
john!
Smash Hero
daaaamn. juggleguy, are you listening?
Engo
Smash Ace
I read in one of the guides that high angled ftilt can beat out fox/falco's shffl approaches sometimes. Is this a reliable way to deal with them?
Would it be something to react to or do you have see it coming and wavedash forward>ftilt to cut them off? Or could you stand still and tilt?
Would it be something to react to or do you have see it coming and wavedash forward>ftilt to cut them off? Or could you stand still and tilt?
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
Yes, I liked it quite a bit and do think it's sticky-worthy, although there is something about the stickies in general I'd like to discuss with the residents of this board. We currently have seven stuck threads in this board, which is enough so that, at least in my current browser settings, non-stuck threads aren't even visible without scrolling down a bit, and most of the stuck threads aren't very active. My proposition is to make an "important threads" topic which lists the current stickies, some other useful threads (I'd certainly want your guide and the hitbox/frame data thread), stick that, and I'd then unstick the other topics. It'd unclutter the top of the board a little and would still provide easy access to the aforementioned threads. I'd also emphasize that bumping any topics in that thread is fine for any newcomers wandering around who'd be concerned about that. Thoughts?
At the time of TBH2, I wasn't good at wobbling, was pretty lackadaisical about it being legal (although I've favored its legality since early 08), and wobbling-legal wasn't really the norm. It seems like ever since the months before EVO, the pro-wobbling viewpoint has become dominant and wobbling being legal has become the status quo at least from what I've observed, especially in my region. I view banning it as a step backwards. Also, traveling far from California isn't cheap and I'm only willing to do it a few times per year; I'd rather save my plane flights for the tourneys that don't nerf my main when characters that are already better are left more-or-less untouched.
It is pretty reliable, although the reward typically isn't very high and an observant spacie can still capitalize on a whiffed up-angled ftilt. Nowadays, I personally favor things with higher rewards, e.g. DD grab, fsmash, dash attack, and bair, although ftilt still has its place, as its faster than everything I just mentioned.
Generally, you'd just use it when sitting there and you think the enemy will rush you. I do like wd forward -> ftilt for certain things, like catching a spacie falling through a side platform to the ground, but that's a really different scenario.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
Nintendude, idk if you'll read this, but you need to stop wavedashing inside Fox and ftilt him instead.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
yeah I definitely did not put on my finest performance today.... hopefully I will be a lot sharper in bracket
HammerTime
Smash Journeyman
I'd like to give a huge congrats to Nintendude for his stellar performance at TBH3. Great job representing the IC community while Fly and Wobbles were absent! Hopefully next major tourney I can step it up and do well also.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
yea good job nintendude
cemo
white walker
Taking down PewPewU, nice job. What did he end up banning that you took him to FD?