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Social General Ice Climber Chat

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
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So, I was playing around with the Ice Climbers in training mode the other day, and I found some, at least to me, new desynchs which I think could be somewhat useful. You guys have probably known about these for a long time, but I thought I would post them just for the heck of it.

Dash back --> dash forward --> down-b --> shield/whatever
I don't think this works consistently, but does kindof randomly.. You also mention how this leads to a retreating blizzard. How? You dash back then you dash forward then blizzard.

Dash forward --> dash back --> dash forward --> down z+a
Because of the intricacy of spacing in Melee, this would rarely be applicable vs a good player. Grab happy foxes can always be beaten in easier ways.?
 

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
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i think i know what you're talking about, and it's cool but the timing is pretty specific. but yeah i found it back when brawl came out (you don't need to dash forward btw)...
 

Tomber

Smash Journeyman
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I don't think this works consistently, but does kindof randomly.. You also mention how this leads to a retreating blizzard. How? You dash back then you dash forward then blizzard.
You make a longer dash back then a shorter one forward. This way you'll be farther away from your opponent then before you dashed. And it's not hard to do consistently. Just as easy as the 3 dash desynch IMO. I'll post a video in which I use it some time.

Because of the intricacy of spacing in Melee, this would rarely be applicable vs a good player. Grab happy foxes can always be beaten in easier ways.?
Even good players spot dodge, and dash-danceing is a pretty good spacing tool. Using this desynch you'll just have Nana down-smashing instead of grabbing.



I just placed second at a local tournament earlier today, btw. I'll probably post some videos some time next week.
 

Tomber

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The best IC main in Europe.

Or, at least I think I am, haha. Have yet to prove it in an international tourney. I choked a little at BEAST2, but I have improved a lot lately.

You can judge it yourself. I'll post some matches soon.
 

N1c2k3

Smash Lord
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What does Dash forward --> dash back --> dash forward --> down z+a do? Make Nana Dsmash?


And yeah haven't seen too many good Euro IC's. One I think, but I can't even remember the name.


RepublicanOfHeaven: You're missing a "na" in your sig...
 

choknater

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choknater
my jigglypuff theory + practice paid off really well haha. i beat sheridan pretty convincingly. i'd like to play hungrybox someday. i wonder what puff can do to defeat my strategy in that matchup
 

PokemonMasterIRL

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Popping and locking butt naked.
Yeah you did beat Sheridan Pretty soundly, granted (I have talked to him about this more than once previously) he feels that it is in the ICs favor, so he could need to look at the match up differently.

Although Hbox lost to Fly, BUT Hbox beat Wobbles.

IDK.
 

choknater

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wobbles doesn't camp enough

i think ic's beats puff really well

i'm just trying to imagine what puff can do against the strat, so that i can come up with how to counter that. always gotta be ahead of the game. i wonder if i can convince GK to start playing puff again
 

choknater

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choknater
what i do is just roll away and blizzard desynch. i use roll desynch because as long as puff isn't too close, she's not fast enough to catch the roll and punish it. nana blizzard covers her best two moves: fair and bair. if you just popo ice block and nana blizzard, it forces puff to take a different route to get near ic's, and she usually chooses to either jump over the spam or run away.

if she chooses to go over the spam during your continuous desynch, you can simply maneuver with popo to get nana away, or attack puff with a uair. synched squall is also another good choice to move around, because you can attack puff while using a move with great mobility and decent damage.

what i do if puff kinda catches on by running away is i board platforms and start ice blocking. if she is high above, i get back on the ground. if she is below or near, i start spamming dairs because synched dairs do crazy damage on her even if they trade. it's like 20%. you only need to do like 2 or 3 of those and she's in kill range from a grab.

blizzard is just an excellent move against characters without projectiles because it forces them to choose an approach that isn't head on. it gives us a ton of breathing room. i noticed one of my biggest mistakes with ic's vs puff was simply wding into bair. if you can condition puff into not using short hop bairs, it makes her go above, and then you can control the stage. also, if she is no longer short hop bairing, you can wd toward or under her. you might even find her spending too much time no the ground or even shielding, then you can just wd grab or wd jab grab, or WD SH DAIR to grab which freaking ***** her and she dies.

jabs and dairs are great for random damage, but basically you wanna let nana's blizzard control jigglypuff's movement. you don't ALWAYS have to short hop ice block with popo, but if you want a standard thing to do to keep the continuous desynch of nana blizzards, the standard option would be ice block. it forces her to jump and sometimes the ice block beats her aerial if she actually is coming from above and wants to challenge popo.

however, during nana's blizzard, you can just run around, dash dance, wd, short hop aerial, wd shield, wd grab... basically anything. it's so godlike, like using an assist in marvel vs capcom. just let nana cover you while you do whatever. condition puff to do other things, and those other things allow you to control the ground because she has to jump high.

ic's control this matchup mad hard. "don't get hit" applies here. you just have to really TRAIN yourself to not run into bairs. rolling away > wding toward.

i kno fly has said he doesn't really rely on the camping vs puff, but it has worked for me 100% of the time haha.
 

choknater

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choknater
yea the thing about nana blizzard is that it keeps her safe.

i don't want my nana doing anything else. in the matchup i consider being synched a bigger risk than being desynched, lol. very strange matchup, but i enjoy playing it more than other matchups because hell yeah i'm desynched a lot.

when i'm synched i go for DAIRS lmao.

what a strange matchup

if my 3rd match with sheridan was recorded, i would totally show all u guys

but o well
 

PEEF!

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hm LOL

i'm actually interested too

to me it seems random
She always chooses her getup on the first possible frame after being on the ledge.

It depends on the enemies position I feel, but it is essentially random as to what she does.

I feel like getup attack and roll are by far the most likely when I put nana on the ledge.
 

Hozart

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So she can roll/jump/attack?

Does she always do it instantly?

Anything you can do to manipulate what she does?

So many questions, sorry
When the opponent is close to the edge she always chooses to do a get-up attack. Unless I've done something, I've never seen her jump from the edge so I think that's out. Everything else seems random.

Know that because she always comes up with a get-up attack, you can plan around it. I've done my fair share of follow-ups from this attack. A lot of players don't see it coming.
 

choknater

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choknater
both are decent options haha i just try to react to what she does and synch up

edit: hozart. so when the opponent is far away, what does she do? normal get up and roll?
 

Hozart

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both are decent options haha i just try to react to what she does and synch up

edit: hozart. so when the opponent is far away, what does she do? normal get up and roll?
All I can say is that it's nothing that you can follow-up (i.e. not a get-up attack). 90% of the time if she grabs the edge and my opponent is away from it, I'm too busy watching my opponent, not her.
 

PEEF!

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When the opponent is close to the edge she always chooses to do a get-up attack. Unless I've done something, I've never seen her jump from the edge so I think that's out. Everything else seems random.

Know that because she always comes up with a get-up attack, you can plan around it. I've done my fair share of follow-ups from this attack. A lot of players don't see it coming.
This isn't right. She does jump sometimes, and she doesn't always do get up attack when opponent is nearby. It does happen often, but not always.
 

Vts

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Loser's Semis vs ihavespaceballs
So arby told me something that I did't really care about until he said it's new thing falcons are talking about when fighting ICs he said only me and fly do it so I'll share my terrible wisdom of what I do to grab happy falcons

Shield

it's simple you see him coming for a grab shield and wait if he grabs you , spam a for nana to grab after the throw to make her grab or hit him so u can't be comboed, when nana's grabbed you can pretty much do w/e u want, since what he said falcons are trying to use that invincibility from the throw to get start you can punish them with shield.

Just my 2 cents to help out ICs, also found stupid crap with other characters that doesn't help ICs at all hate this game ><
 

Tomber

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Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
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It's funny how memory can trick you. Watching my recent sets against S2J, the biggest problems I recall having were actually only minor issues. I did get a decent collection of notes on what to do differently next time, although a lot of it does depend on me not being stupid, which isn't something I really trust myself to do, but it's something I really need to get better at and I think I can do it. He's a better player than me, so I wouldn't be surprised if he would adapt to my adaptations faster than I could deal with whatever he improvises up next time, though. Still, playing him is good since it forces me to fix some big faults and generally improve as a player in order to not get ***** by him.

@Tomber: I'll watch those now and give thoughts soon.
 

Fly_Amanita

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Dendy always makes up nonsense for the sake of humor. I wasn't angry, although I did refuse the offer.

I never split on principle.
 

Fly_Amanita

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@Tomber: I'm just going to copy and paste my comments straight from Notepad, in which I jotted down thoughts as I observed them. Pardon the poor formatting and the general odd organization of the comments.


vs. King Funk (Falco/Luigi)

first round

Your general play looks pretty solid. Your movement is generally good, your reads are pretty good, and your execution is good. It looks like you get impatient occasionally, though. Most of the times when you lost momentum happened because he read your approach and punished well. ICs don't really need to approach Falco very much, so try not to feel obligated to always be landing a hit on him; it's fine to sit back and wait for an approach or shoot ice blocks pretty often. The main reason you lost the first round is that you kept rushing in whenever you could on your last stock and he realized this; you calmed down a little when you just had one IC left, but the mindset shift happened too late. Other than that, there are some little minor situational decisions that could have been better, but nothing very severe that I would stress about at the moment.

second round

I don't have too much to add that I didn't see in the first round. I would like to emphasize again that ice blocks are really good against Falco; there were a lot of times when you could have easily shot some to safely harass him when you instead either did nothing (a fine option, but not always one of the best) or went for a risky approach. Kind of a random comment, but I also don't generally recommend recovering with the synced version of side-B against Falco since he can very easily hit you out of it; up-B is nice in that at least Popo will usually survive.

third round

Random situational technique: When you're in a situation like the one at 9:07 where you're kind of close to Nana and at the edge, synced side-B towards the center is often a decent way back to the center. It catches a lot of people off-guard since they often don't know just how far Popo can be from Nana for the synced squall to work. Also, right after the aforementioned time, you should have tried to save Nana with up-B, not side-B. Another general comment, but you like to waveland around platforms when the opponent respawns. This can work, but you don't want to be far from the ground for very long. Being up high on a platform is generally very unsafe as ICs. In particular, you really don't want to go to the top platform unless you're very confident that you won't get punished for it. Going to the top platform around 10:08 directly lead to Nana's death shortly afterwards and ultimately made you lose the nice lead you had at that point. You probably should have done bthrow at the throw around 10:50 just so that you can put Luigi off-stage and get synced again. You also should have gotten back in sync after Luigi's next death; not doing so lead to Nana's death and a general loss of momentum.


vs. Eagle

first round

When Eagle grabbed Nana, you probably should have shielded rather than CC'd and grabbed him after the dthrow. At 2:52, Nana dies to a random dsmash; this is something you should always be wary of against Samus, although it looks you dealt with this move pretty well for most of the set. I'm confused about why the fsmash at 3:52 didn't KO; maybe it has to do with PAL/NTSC differences. In any case, I would advise punishing such a whiffed grab with grab -> charged smash for a KO. On another general note, most good Samus players like to grab with a certain regularity. HugS, for example, waits a pretty long time between grabs, but not excessively long; he waits just long enough for the opponent to forget about getting grabbed so he can go for it again. Eagle grabs constantly; it shouldn't be too difficult to get a sense of when he likes to throw out grabs and roll, spot dodge, or even do something like jump and waveland onto a platform to make him miss. Also, when he does grab Nana, if you can get right next to him and shield, I think you should be able to shield-grab his dthrow. You might need to shield-DI a little bit sometimes, but I don't think that's usually necessary. The end of this round is funny.

second round

You like DD blizzard a lot. This is fine because it is an awesome desynch, but be careful about when you throw it out against a character like Samus. Samus isn't one of the most likely characters to run into a blizzard from halfway across the stage. She'll probably just shoot a missile which you'll need to shield, since any other way of dodging would result in Nana getting hit. DD blizzard is still fine against Samus here and there, but only use it if you think she's likely to run into it, or if you're trying to prevent her from getting back onstage when she's on the edge. That blizzard around 7:20 should have lead to a grab, but didn't since you brought up your shield after the roll. I can see why you'd want to protect yourself then, but at least against Samus, you should be able to judge whether you need to shield on reaction. It looked pretty clear when you started the desynch that she wasn't going to suddenly throw anything out that could hit you throw the blizzard, and if she did decide to toss out a missile, you could easily react to it. It looks like you generally have a decent idea about how to deal with charge shot; you should probably try to keep your shield a bit bigger than you currently do, though. Being able to main a really big light-shield in general is pretty nice against Samus.

I also want to add that against Samus, going to the top platform every now and then isn't actually so bad. She's much worse at punishing you for going up there than King Funk's characters are, so it's actually a nice, reasonably safe place to be every now and then.
 

voorhese

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i have an idea for an edgeguard, wavedash from like the middle of stage or not to close, buffer nanas down b towards center of stage, wavedash onto ledge (this would be timed for like falcon or the spacies prolly) and if they go for ledge they die, if they go up -> ledgehop waveland into fsmash or grab
 
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