Social General Ice Climber Chat

[PB&J]

hey everybody teach me not to suk so bad at this game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0XmPxYuCLY&feature=channel

 

[choknater]

pbj just punish harder, the match wasnt that bad

 

[PB&J]

im just really bD ON MYSELF WHEN I WATCH MY SELF..BUT THANKS I NEED TO PUNISH..CHOKNATER U NEED TO COME TO GA SOMETIME OR GO TO ROM 2 ILL BE THERE

 

[Lixivium]

hey everybody teach me not to suk so bad at this game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0XmPxYuCLY&feature=channel

You were winning up until that last stock.

A couple of suggestions, take these with a grain of salt:

1) I always favor grabs over D-smashes after jabs and what not. Marth doesn't have (or doesn't use) a fast D-smash to crouch-cancel counter with. Jab -> grab works better on Marth than most other characters.

2) Remember the D-throw -> reverse D-air -> D-smash or F-smash, especially on Yoshi's Story.

3) When you see him going below the stage but you can't get there, throw Ice Blocks.

4) Got nothing



Edit: First time I've had videos recorded in like 3 years, see what you guys think.


Vs. Luigi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCRxYxY_KN0&feature=channel_page

Vs. Pikachu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkpMPsBHMao&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xggoTDkCzA4&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6ogjY28DNA&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1v7uYayO2E&feature=channel_page

Vs. Jigglypuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhIK3L69LsU&feature=channel_page

Vs. Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEjHTTTdhgE&feature=channel_page

Vs. Falcon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-GXVYBUips&feature=channel_page


These are all friendlies BTW.

1) I know I flub wavedashes. If you see a roll out of shield or a horizontal airdodge, it's not because I don't know what to do, it's because I have no skill.

2) I know you can chaingrab Pikachu from 0-death, but I usually mess up chaingrabs beyond the second one so I just smash them.

3) I know I compulsively D-air as I'm landing. I try not to do it but I can't help myself.

Any other advice is welcome.

 

[PB&J]

thanks man ill try these out


those matches were sick..i love ur pivot grab after blizzard..

u should try up b out of shield for nana can grab the ledge can do what ever u want with popo..besides that keep it up

try to go to rom 2 for we can plaY

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

Quick question...

Can you L-Cancel Nana's aerials?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Yes. If you L-cancel with Popo, Nana usually will as well. She doesn't always, though; for example, if you shffl a fair and input the L-cancel command right before landing, Nana won't L-cancel. I'm not sure why this happens, although I have a few weird ideas.

 

[choknater]

and what are those?

anyway guys, i've decided to use falco to cover for the following matchups in tournament: peach, ganon, and perhaps luigi and samus

for luigi, samus, and peach on gay stages, i will go peach

that's right haha, i'll still ban brinstar, but if someone decides to pick mute city on me i will peach ditto that person

 

[ChivalRuse]

and what are those?

anyway guys, i've decided to use falco to cover for the following matchups in tournament: peach, ganon, and perhaps luigi and samus

for luigi, samus, and peach on gay stages, i will go peach

that's right haha, i'll still ban brinstar, but if someone decides to pick mute city on me i will peach ditto that person

Ew Peach dittos.

How long have you been playing Falco and Peach, Chok, to be so confident with them in tourny? I'm scared to play any secondaries in tourny.

 

[PB&J]

chok - falco luigi is like the same as icy vs luigi and same with ganon but i approve on the others

just dash attack more on ganon when he is spamming fairs and luigi bair more beside that just play them differenly

 

[choknater]

chivalruse i have been playing falco longer than ic's and peach, well, peach is e-z mode to learn. i played with macd in some friendlies yesterday and did quite fine in peach dittos. i actually like dittos in general, i'm pretty good at them. peach dittos is not the same as maining peach and knowing how to beat marth and stuff lol

and i have never lost to ganons in tournament with falco, but i always lose with ic's lol. it's just a problem matchup for me, i like being aggressive and i can't really do that with ic's for some reason

and yeah, i kno falco luigi is pretty hard but it's not like i am gonna meet any good luigi's lol. if i do, i might end up doing something gay and picking peach on mute ahahah, or battlefield. i just know peach has too much priority and luigi's recovery is terrible :D

 

[ChivalRuse]

Falco's easy to use. Much easier than Peach for me.

peach dittos is not the same as maining peach and knowing how to beat marth and stuff lol

Good point.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I'm really comfortable in fox vs luigi but I'd probably still go ICs in tournament.

Also chok, I had to play kage at genesis too and lost. Beating kage would be hard in any case, but I think ICs would be fine against pretty much any other ganon player. Just treat him like falcon, space u-airs and dash attacks really well, jab a lot because he doesn't have much to cc, and be patient/careful until you get a grab. Reverse d-air is inescapable until way above killing % on him. I can understand if you just like being aggressive, but personally I'll never switch vs a ganon.

Also, samus tips anyone? This past weekend I lost to a missile happy samus. First game was on YS; he would just go to one side of the stage and start missile canceling on the platforms and run away when I approached him. Whenever I reached him it became a mix-up of either he jumps and runs away, he shields, or he f-tilts or cc d-smashes. Wobbling was banned, and I hadn't practiced the edge cg on samus before the tourney, so I didn't have many options out of a grab.

The problem was that the missiles gave me little time to think or react so I was just in an uphill situation whenever I successfully made it through the wall of projectiles. Usually I just shielded and wd'd through, but I tried using ice block and d-air at one point. I did okay for most of the match, but the excessive missile spam eventually got to me and I would start to slip up, get hit/separated, and he would capitalize. D-smash would kill nana really quickly and popo wouldn't last long.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I'm really comfortable in fox vs luigi but I'd probably still go ICs in tournament.

Also chok, I had to play kage at genesis too and lost. Beating kage would be hard in any case, but I think ICs would be fine against pretty much any other ganon player. Just treat him like falcon, space u-airs and dash attacks really well, jab a lot because he doesn't have much to cc, and be patient/careful until you get a grab. Reverse d-air is inescapable until way above killing % on him. I can understand if you just like being aggressive, but personally I'll never switch vs a ganon.

Kage isn't the only Ganon who is really good at this match-up.

After losing to Kage in a MM and Linguini in brackets at Genesis, I started re-thinking how I play this match-up and here are my current thoughts on it:

ICs' good tools in this match-up are dash attack, fair, bair, nair, and grab. Grab is only reliable when you think Ganon is going to shield. Nair is good if you're pretty close to Ganon, but think he's going to shffl something so you can't grab him. Fair is good if Ganon is sort of far from you and you think he wants to fair you or something, but you think you can fair him first. Dash attack is okay for punishing whiffed attacks, although not totally reliable. Bair can be used sort of like a faster fair that covers a bit less space, but it requires facing away from Ganon, which I think is unsafe.

The ICs' ground game is generally very bad against Ganon.

If you think you can juggle him with uairs and whatnot, go for it, but it's hard to get good Ganons in such a position.

Blizzard apparently is not very reliable at all; it doesn't really lead to anything and you can get punished badly for using it. The only time I might use it now is if Ganon fairs my shield and I think I can catch him offguard with belay OoS -> blizzard afterwards.

Do not let Ganon get you near the side of the stage if you can. Nana will probably die and Popo might, too.


I wish the west coast had good Ganons so I could figure out more about this match-up. Also, why do we believe that dthrow -> reverse dair is inescapable on Ganon and Falcon? I've never seen any evidence supporting this and I only believed it in the past because Azn Lep told me it is, but I've played a lot of people who consistently SDI out of it. It's possible that I'm doing it wrong, but I saw Azn Lep doing it to Hax in a MM and by the end of the MM, Hax was getting out of it pretty consistently. Linguini, Kage, and Qlex (a good French Ganon) all were able to get out of my dthrow -> reverse dair consistently.

If anybody has any proof that dthrow -> reverse dair is inescapable if done properly, can I see it?

 

[Kyu Puff]

I mm'd hax twice this weekend and he didn't get out of it at all. Some falcons have definitely escaped, though. I can try to test it out at a smashfest this weekend.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

I played against GofG's IC with Falcon. Granted, my Falcon is garbage, i could still Smash DI out of Dthrow reverse Dair. It's really hard though. At least for me.

He 2-stocked me, Btw. It's hard L-cancelling on IC's sheilds. XD


Dash-attack is good against Ganon. Like I said before. Dance in and out of his range and punish fairs with Dash attack. The Ganons in NC that I've played have a habit of sometimes double-jumping out of a Shorthop and fast-falling another aerial if you're too close for them to safely FAir. Meet them with Uairs.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ics are a ground-based character.

In a game that's evolving to force everyone to jump around like idiots.

 

[choknater]

lol agreed, it's hella hard for me to use ic's aerial game, esp. when i'm scared because the other character's aerial game is superior

it's not that i've given up with ic's, but that i've decided to be comfortable with my current playstyle and to pick other characters for other matchups where i'm more comfortable. some day, maybe, when i can practice all day against a ganon with ic's... i'll do it. but right now i can't haha. cuz i know ganon, samus, and luigi are manageable (peach is not, IMO), but i just have to be able to practice against them for a while. as i am right now... i'd rather pick falco in tournament

 

[PB&J]

i totally disagree with the ground based chracters..icy's air game is very good people nee d to learn how to use is well..well space fairs ****,nairs ****,nanapult *****,pivot bairs with nana, is good

icy are one of the most versatile characters in the game people are just not good with them and need to admit it..even chu dat agrees with me and said noone mastered them or even came close..there are still so much to be figured out..icy's **** in the air..just dont be dumb about it..when using it

 

[choknater]

how do u pivot bair with nana O_o

 

[PB&J]

pivot desyncs to bair is what i met..im kinda of tired and cant sleep ..but i just try to **** with bair ..one trick i do is wave dash , pivot shield then up b out of shiled then bair or blizzard it tricks them out because the spacing is so good..try it..ive been working on alot of stuff like that since genesis

 

[choknater]

wow, creative

i really need to get on the ball again haha, my ic's tricks are no longer new

 

[PB&J]

im always trying to do new stuff with them..they are like endless chracters if u ask me..i mean thers 2 of them

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

Here's a video of my ICs, I just like the ending, haha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbXxCZ_zXh8&feature=channel_page

 

[Vts]

i'll post vids of me failing while playing ice climbers against my friend chamberlin once we get the hook ups so we can try to get advice and learn some more stuff.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

the thing about ic's air game is that even though his aerials have a use' the use is fairly limited and they don't exactly have a use beyond that. also, their hitboxes, while disjointed, tend to be narrow or have bad range. Take uair, for instance. Good aerial. good priorit, combos into itself. the most you'll get is 2 in succession though. now, compare that to cf's nair. combos into grab, another nair, uair or knee. all of which combos into each other.

 

[-Axis-]

the thing about ic's air game is that even though his aerials have a use' the use is fairly limited and they don't exactly have a use beyond that. also, their hitboxes, while disjointed, tend to be narrow or have bad range. Take uair, for instance. Good aerial. good priorit, combos into itself. the most you'll get is 2 in succession though. now, compare that to cf's nair. combos into grab, another nair, uair or knee. all of which combos into each other.

Well put. I miss uair juggle all the time because I overestimate its horizontal range. Any tips on not getting juggled to death? Dair is........ugh.

EDIT: Can anyone link me to some recent vids?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

squall away from the juggle?

 

[wool]

the thing about ic's air game is that even though his aerials have a use' the use is fairly limited and they don't exactly have a use beyond that. also, their hitboxes, while disjointed, tend to be narrow or have bad range. Take uair, for instance. Good aerial. good priorit, combos into itself. the most you'll get is 2 in succession though. now, compare that to cf's nair. combos into grab, another nair, uair or knee. all of which combos into each other.

the use may be fairly limited but 2 uairs packs a good amount of damage (assuming your not solo popo) whereas c falcon needs to combo more to get a lot of damage. ICs are just more defensive and need better spacing than c falcon.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I'm trying to figure out why I used to hate ICs vs. Samus so much in the first place. I beat Hugo in that match-up again today. Also, I took another set off Lucky, but lost to him 2-3 in losers finals.

I think I play better when I chew gum.

edit: ICs vs. Samus is so easy on Corneria.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Probably the same reason I hate it now.

 

[choknater]

wow fly good stuff

 

[ChivalRuse]

I think I play better when I chew gum.

I would be scared to do that. I would be afraid that I'd choke.

Get it? Haha.

 

[Finch]

Whenever I play samus I just forward smash a lot and I don't really know the matchup and the only samus I ever play against isn't that good but it seems to work. Am I doing it right?

And I mean I smart forward smash not spam it.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Whenever I play samus I just forward smash a lot and I don't really know the matchup and the only samus I ever play against isn't that good but it seems to work. Am I doing it right?

And I mean I smart forward smash not spam it.

I do something sort of like that. Fsmash is solid for trying to catch Samus off-guard, and except maybe at really low percentages, you don't need to worry about her CC, like you would with ftilt or something.

I usually try to stay pretty close to Samus, but not too close since she has a lot of annoying tools like ftilt, jab-cancel, and up-B when close or in point-blank range. When she's sort of far away/medium range, intercept missiles with ice blocks; just don't do this too much when she has a charge shot.

Most of the grabs I get on Samus, are from shielding her dsmash and wavedashing in afterwards. Since the dthrow animation takes a long time on her, Nana can almost fully charge a usmash before releasing it, so dthrow -> usmash can KO at surprisingly early percentages.

At high percentages when Samus doesn't CC as much, jab -> dsmash is solid.

Watch out for up-B in close range. If you're careless or desperate to get a grab when right next to her, this can cause a lot of problems.

If you can get Samus above you, which usually isn't all that hard, uair is amazing. When she's on the ground, though, the ICs' aerial game is mediocre against her.

Samus' grab can cause problems, since it separates the ICs, but she seems to have a hard time capitalizing on this for some reason. I'm saying this based only on my experience with Samus, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if Samus actually can cause significant harm from grabs.

 

[PB&J]

good stuff fly..i suk vs samus i mean suk..dj nintendo is going to teach me the match up this weekend..hopefully i get better at the match up..ill rather fight a peach like 50 times then fight a samus once..please give me ur knowledge on like everything u know about fighting samus

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Let me try to remember what else was working. Keep in mind that Hugo does play kind of strangely, and I don't have much experience against other Samus players, so I'm not sure how much of this works against other people.

I don't think blizzard is very good in this match-up. The only time I ever use it is after belay OoS, which I actually think is pretty good when you're around Samus' ftilt range as long as you don't think she's going to wavedash backwards or something.

When edgeguarding her, I usually don't try anything risky. I mostly try to hit her with synched ice blocks to just add damage, hit bombs, and sometimes hit her out of her grapple beam recovery. When Samus is on the edge, I still spend a lot of time harassing her with ice blocks to try get her back to come back on the stage, but every now and then I'll randomly wavedash towards the edge and fsmash. Be really careful if she has a charge shot when she's on the edge, though, since ledgehop -> charge shot beats any of this stuff.

If you're close to Samus when she's on the edge, she'll probably try to hit you with ledgehop fair. Hugo likes to up-B after this, which I just wait for; other Samus players might do different things, but if you can get her to ledgehop fair your shield and you can guess what she'll do next, you can probably grab her.

I don't think dash attack works very well most of the time. I only use it if I'm really confident that the Samus is going to approach; otherwise, she can just wavedash back and dsmash or something to punish you, and that's something that can cause a lot of problems for you.

I also light shield a lot against Samus; she can beat this with grab, but Samus' grab is risky, so you usually don't have too much to worry about. I don't really know what to do if she's jabbing your shield, though; I usually wait for Samus to ftilt or mess up a jab-cancel and then either wavedash in or belay OoS -> blizzard, but I don't think there is a safe way of punishing perfect jab-cancels, so sometimes I'll just wavedash or roll away instead.

You can probably learn a lot from DJ Nintendo. Please tell us what stuff you learn because I still feel like I don't really understand this match-up that well.

 

[Smasher89]

Something that have troubled me earlier was Samus dodge, but wavedashing with the back against the opponent, turnering around with popo (not nana) and dsmash makes the smashes be out longer and easier hit her^^

 

[wool]

fly thanks man. I always had trouble versus Samus since I didn't know much about the matchup at all.

 

[PB&J]

ill let u know everything djn teaches me and ill play i havespaceballs to test it out

oh umm..m2k is coming over friday morning til monday at my apt..ill try to get better agsainst marth..i usally do good vs him..he only 2 stocks me or i get him to one stock like every maqtch we play..because i know what he is going to do..so this time ill ty to beat him and tell u guys eveything..or better yet..ill record matches and post them