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General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!

Jon Farron

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I don't think you could take Zidane out of the party... (definitely would've if I had the option, I prefer mages)

My favorite Final Fantasy character is probably Ashe from XII. Not sure why, I just like her. Her personality was perfect for her role, and her Mist moves were the coolest IMO. :p

I also like Yuna from 10, Locke from 6, Garnet from 9, and Hope & Lightning from 13 (yes, Lightning). I don't like the male characters too much, they're usually too stereotyped. (big sword, macho personality or big sword I must find my destiny) Oh, and Larsa is probably my favorite non-playable character. Though I think you can play him in the IZJS version.
 

Claire Diviner

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I don't think you could take Zidane out of the party... (definitely would've if I had the option, I prefer mages)
Actually, you can, but only in Memoria.

I also like Yuna from 10, Locke from 6, Garnet from 9, and Hope & Lightning from 13 (yes, Lightning). I don't like the male characters too much, they're usually too stereotyped. (big sword, macho personality or big sword I must find my destiny) Oh, and Larsa is probably my favorite non-playable character. Though I think you can play him in the IZJS version.
There is nothing wrong with Lightning, because I like her too, critics be damned. That said, I actually hated Hope; he was way too whiny, and while yes, he witnessed his mother dying and all that, his characters was just annoying... Then Final Fantasy XIII-2 came out, and he not only had a much better personality, making him one of my favorites in the XIII world, but he was also freakin' hot! lol

Other characters I like include:

Final Fantasy: Garland
Final Fantasy II: Emperor
Final Fantasy III: Cloud of Darkness
Final Fantasy IV: Cecil, Kain, Golbez
Final Fantasy V: Faris, Gilgamesh, Exdeath
Final Fantasy VI: Celes, Setzer, Cyan, Ultros, Kefka
Final Fantasy VII: Zack, Barret, Cid, Rude
Final Fantasy VIII: Zell, Quistis, Seifer, Fuujin
Final Fantasy IX: Steiner, Beatrix, Kuja, Amarant
Final Fantasy X: Auron, Lulu, Yuna, Wakka, Jecht
Final Fantasy XI: Prishe
Final Fantasy XII: Penelo, Ashe, Fran, Judge Drace, Judge Gabranth
Final Fantasy XIII: Vanille, Lightning, Fang, Snow, Sazh, Serah, Hope (XIII-2)


:phone:
 

PsychoIncarnate

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My favorite character from an old ff was Terra because here story was interesting, from a new age ff is Fran because she's sexy
 

Claire Diviner

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Honestly, I'm way to tired right now to state anything but IMO FFIX = best characters and best story.
I have to agree with this; VI, VIII and IX are my favorites, and of those three, I definitely like IX the most.

Little known fact: Hironobu Sakaguchi's favorite Final Fantasy is IX as it's apparently the closest to what he envisions a Final Fantasy to be. On that same token, of all the Final Fantasy games he composed, Nobuo Uematsu has stated that Final Fantasy IX's soundtrack is his favorite he has done.


:phone:
 

Smooth Criminal

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Gameplay was a big part of it. I don't wanna say that the theme and mood contributed all that much, but good Lord did I want to punch Zidane in the mouth sometimes.

Smooth Criminal
 

Claire Diviner

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I liked the gameplay, and liked how unlike VII, VIII, and X, you couldn't make all characters the same with max stats, all magic spells, etc.; each character had a specific purpose in a party.

The last Final Fantasy to have this same quality is IV. V, all characters had access to all job classes, so they can all have the same abilities. VI, even though each character served specific roles, it's possible to give almost all characters the same spells. VII has the ability to max all characters' stats and having them receive the same materia; the only thing separating them are their Limit Breaks. VIII has more or less the same issues as VII, as does X. Also, I like Zidane's character as it was a contrast to the usual dark, brooding type of protagonist. There are a few more reasons why I liked IX, but yeah.


:phone:
 

Minato

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I think the only problem with IX is how the battle system aged, but that's only the battle speed. Everything else about it, I liked a lot (besides Trance maybe).
It's been so long since I last played it, so I'm excited to replay all the classic FFs on my Vita eventually.

I agree with Claire on liking how IX made characters unique in a party. Made things a lot more fun. VII and VIII boiled down to who had better limit breaks or ultimate weapons. VI was similar that it was mainly down to equipment and skills. V I thought was fine since you at least had to pick and choose what abilities you wanted, so there was some restraint.

As for favorite characters in each game starting from IV, it's: Edge, Faris, VI there's too many I like, Cloud (before Advent Children and all that) and Cid, Squall, Zidane, Auron and Tidus, Balthier, and Fang.
 

Metal_Sonic

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I got Theatrythm Final Fantasy and it got me hook to Final Fantasy VI. Terra is my favorite hero and Kefka is my favorite villain.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I liked the gameplay, and liked how unlike VII, VIII, and X, you couldn't make all characters the same with max stats, all magic spells, etc.; each character had a specific purpose in a party.

The last Final Fantasy to have this same quality is IV. V, all characters had access to all job classes, so they can all have the same abilities. VI, even though each character served specific roles, it's possible to give almost all characters the same spells. VII has the ability to max all characters' stats and having them receive the same materia; the only thing separating them are their Limit Breaks. VIII has more or less the same issues as VII, as does X. Also, I like Zidane's character as it was a contrast to the usual dark, brooding type of protagonist. There are a few more reasons why I liked IX, but yeah.


:phone:
I disagree with you, a little.

Yes, every character CAN be the same with the job system. However, one thing I like about the job system games is they are no so much character driven, giving me the ability to create my own idenity for the characters based on what classes I chose for them.

I like them because I have the ability to create the character, their role, and get a view of what their personality is based on that.

Though usually I go with the same team I had in FF1. Fighter, Monk, Black Mage, White Mage...

I also did this in FF2, since you can choose how your character develops. I gave them different magic and weapons based on how I thought they should be.
 

Claire Diviner

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I disagree with you, a little.

Yes, every character CAN be the same with the job system. However, one thing I like about the job system games is they are no so much character driven, giving me the ability to create my own idenity for the characters based on what classes I chose for them.

I like them because I have the ability to create the character, their role, and get a view of what their personality is based on that.

Though usually I go with the same team I had in FF1. Fighter, Monk, Black Mage, White Mage...

I also did this in FF2, since you can choose how your character develops. I gave them different magic and weapons based on how I thought they should be.
Well, yeah, I can understand that, but my point is that while in those games, every can be made to be the same, in Final Fantasy IV and IX, it was impossible to make everyone the same.

:phone:
 

PsychoIncarnate

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The problem with that is you can get a character you dislike, but their abilities are useful

I usually end up either using horrible teams of characters I like, or useful teams of characters I dislike
 

finalark

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As a game play *****, I really don't care if I dislike the character in the story. As long as they're useful in combat I'll hull them around in my party no matter what.
 

KRDsonic

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I didn't realize there was a final fantasy thread on this site. Seeing as it's my favorite series, I should probably start posting here.

As far as the battle systems in the games go... V was the first one that had a battle system I liked (I haven't liked II's that much, didn't like the way III's job system was done, and didn't like certain things about IV's). I personally loved the job class system in 5 and how you could add abilities from other classes as well, and you could make each playthrough a little different. Though I usually go with a Berserker, White Mage, Monk, and Thief. I know berserkers suck, but it doesn't matter really seeing as the storyline part of the game isn't that hard (I've never beaten Shinryu or Omega Weapon though).

VII and VIII... I kinda didn't like how the characters are basically the same. Just choose who's limit break you like better, or which characters you like better personally (Though I loved Selphies slot. Full-Cure is so broken).

VI I love, but it was also my first final fantasy, and it's the one I've played the most (I know I've done at least 12 playthroughs of it). One of the things I love in it is the sections of the game where you split into different parties. I know it could also be argued that the characters can become too similar because of being able to teach them all magic and stuff, but I rarely use espers or equipment that teach magic so with the way I play, all of my characters are definitely different.

IX was cool. I liked how different every character was and that they got their own roles. There were things I disliked about it though. I disliked the parties the game sets you up with sometimes (At times, having no white mage and having to rely on items to heal, and then you have a period of time with a thief, two white mages, and a black mage...) and it does get to a point where you don't even really need healing spells because auto-regen is healing you so fast. It got to a point where I just made a party of Zidane, Steiner, Armarant, and Freya and just kept hitting and things still couldn't kill me.

X... I loved the battle system in this game for the most part. If it wasn't for the long unskippable cutscenes, it would be my favorite final fantasy. I like being able to switch characters in and out during battle, so it actually gives me a reason to use everyone. The sphere grid was pretty cool too, though after a certain point it just gets ridiculous how over-powered you can get. Just for fun, I got and unsealed everyone's best weapons and got their stats as high as I could, and after that point it was just like... not even Nemesis could do anything to me.

XII I haven't beaten yet, but the battle system is pretty cool. Sometimes it's nice to be able to just walk up to enemies and then set my controller down while I eat.

Edit: As far as making parties in final fantasy games go, I just make parties of who I like rather than who's good, considering all of the games are pretty easy (At least from 5 onwards. I haven't beaten the earlier ones so I can't say much for those).


:059:
 

Metal_Sonic

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you know i'm planning on doing a Final Fantasy roleplay that is 100% original?
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Well, unlike those groups, these people aren't complaining it's anti-religious
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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I feel that whenever I play most jRPGs that the writers making the game were carefully plotting out everything in the beginning, but somewhere along the half-way point they were informed that they needed to ship out the game the following week and started putting in any stretch of ham-handed plot they could come up with in order to make the game grandiose and memorable as possible.

I think that the FF series ruins itself by trying to bring the game to an end that is simply too cataclysmic or weighty for the plot to gradually develop to reach that point without excessive suspension of belief. Also the series has this obsession with amnesia and sometimes relies on it as a plot device to achieve the previously mentioned point.

I think that the FF series structures itself on a bifurcated model. The first half involves gathering party members, searching for crystals, or some type of fetch story model that allows you to find other members or allows you to explore more of their personality. This tends to be the part that I prefer over the second half which tends to push some type of world wide dilemma that had been developing to epic proportions that the characters are obligated to fix.

A pet peeve of mine is that unit customization is limited. Granted the FF series gives you weapons and maybe jobs, but it doesn't really involve game play that rewards extensive time outside of the story for bolstering up your characters. Boss monster levels are more or less capped after sixty-seventy hours of play and when you finish the side-bosses along with the main quest, there isn't much to commemorate the game. That means that the storyline is the central selling point of the game and even that is objectively lacking.

The FF series cannot really be considered a strategy series. The actual game play of most jRPGs fall short if they aren't action oriented (Kingdom Hearts), puzzled based (Grim Grimoire), or occupy some other unique niche (Okami) often being just some minor subversion of button-mashing with a slightly higher level of micro-complexity (healing) and some minor form of macro-management for skills & abilities.

I don't think that the series has aged well or is going to age well in the future. Neither do I think that the classic SNES series represented a superior or flawless comparison with respect to the latter installments of the series. What most people state as being a superior storytelling elements from older games trend more towards cliched climax conventions that come without much warning. Newer games are also guilty of this, except they don't need to rely on it as heavily due to expansive graphics and movie sequences offering players a new hook to have them keep on playing.
 

finalark

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This is interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLhiWw3pzQk

They interpret Final Fantasy as Anti-Religious. Mostly against the Christian religion
A few things:

1: It took people what? Twelve years to figure out that FFX and Tactics are anti-organized religion? Seriously? This is shocking news somehow?

2: I don't think that religious references during the final boss fight in VI intended any criticism. I think it was seen more as "cool western stuff" by Square the way westerners see things like the Yin-Yang symbol and Buddhism as "cool eastern stuff."

3: Actually, a lot of JRPGs tend to spew bile at organized religion now that I think about it.

I feel that whenever I play most jRPGs that the writers making the game were carefully plotting out everything in the beginning, but somewhere along the half-way point they were informed that they needed to ship out the game the following week and started putting in any stretch of ham-handed plot they could come up with in order to make the game grandiose and memorable as possible.
Indeed, but I firmly believe in game play before narrative.

I think that the FF series ruins itself by trying to bring the game to an end that is simply too cataclysmic or weighty for the plot to gradually develop to reach that point without excessive suspension of belief. Also the series has this obsession with amnesia and sometimes relies on it as a plot device to achieve the previously mentioned point.
You really don't see amnesia as commonly as you see the protagonist having an astonishing revelation about their past that was a secret, even to themselves. But again, game play before narrative.

I think that the FF series structures itself on a bifurcated model. The first half involves gathering party members, searching for crystals, or some type of fetch story model that allows you to find other members or allows you to explore more of their personality. This tends to be the part that I prefer over the second half which tends to push some type of world wide dilemma that had been developing to epic proportions that the characters are obligated to fix.
Congrats, you've played FFVI.

A pet peeve of mine is that unit customization is limited. Granted the FF series gives you weapons and maybe jobs, but it doesn't really involve game play that rewards extensive time outside of the story for bolstering up your characters. Boss monster levels are more or less capped after sixty-seventy hours of play and when you finish the side-bosses along with the main quest, there isn't much to commemorate the game. That means that the storyline is the central selling point of the game and even that is objectively lacking.
"Unit customization."

Excuse me, but Final Fantasy is not Fire Emblem. On top of that, this entire paragraph here isn't doing much to convince me that you've actually taken the time to look into character customization in Final Fantasy if you think the entire series relies off of "jobs."

The FF series cannot really be considered a strategy series.
They're not.

The actual game play of most jRPGs fall short if they aren't action oriented (Kingdom Hearts), puzzled based (Grim Grimoire), or occupy some other unique niche (Okami) often being just some minor subversion of button-mashing with a slightly higher level of micro-complexity (healing) and some minor form of macro-management for skills & abilities.
Someone here has clearly never played a JRPG.

Also, if Okami is a JRPG then Legend of Zelda is too.

And doing some research into Grim Grimoire, that's an RTS.

I don't think that the series has aged well or is going to age well in the future. Neither do I think that the classic SNES series represented a superior or flawless comparison with respect to the latter installments of the series. What most people state as being a superior storytelling elements from older games trend more towards cliched climax conventions that come without much warning. Newer games are also guilty of this, except they don't need to rely on it as heavily due to expansive graphics and movie sequences offering players a new hook to have them keep on playing.
After reading over your severely misinformed opinion based on statements made by what sounds like someone who has limited experience with Final Fantasy and JRPGs as a whole I have come to this conclusion:

 

#HBC | Acrostic

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Going to respond in this free-form since I find individual quoting to be more taxing. First, I am guilty of lumping together instances of surprise with cases of amnesia. It would be more accurate to say that Tidus discovers how he arrived on Zanarkand, rather than the stipulation that he forgot how he arrived there. However cases like FF IV and FF IX have cases where Cecil and Zidane respectively discover how they came from the moon or another planet which are central to their ability/role in saving the world.

The entire series isn't on jobs. However, it was an important part of the game play in the first installment and the fifth game. Jobs aren't a central part of the game. I believe I said it was a "pet peeve" which means that I find customization lacking. And yes, I do find characters and built-in abilities to be limiting in extensive post-game play where I personally look at them more as units than as story related players.

Also yes, I'm sorry for plugging in cross-genres of games that I liked into that statement. That was a mistake. I don't feel that it was the central point of my response. I think that the game play is dated and feel that the series should try to look outside the box. Regardless if the box is defining of the jRPG genre itself.

I don't think that the split model only applies to FF VI. Look at FF IV where you separated from Kain and you are adding party members along with Rydia while losing them at the same time. FF IX is recollection galore with a focus on Freya in the beginning of the game and a more gradual element to Garnet. The underlying portion to a large part of the half of the game is largely supposed character building in most of the games and the plot events are mostly subdued in comparison to building up to the final events of the game. I largely don't believe that the underlying plot in the first half of most Final Fantasy games is for sole focus on linear plot progress in itself.
 

finalark

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Going to respond in this free-form since I find individual quoting to be more taxing. First, I am guilty of lumping together instances of surprise with cases of amnesia. It would be more accurate to say that Tidus discovers how he arrived on Zanarkand, rather than the stipulation that he forgot how he arrived there. However cases like FF IV and FF IX have cases where Cecil and Zidane respectively discover how they came from the moon or another planet which are central to their ability/role in saving the world.
Indeed, I will agree with you that it is an overused plot device within the series. But again, game play before narrative.

The entire series isn't on jobs. However, it was an important part of the game play in the first installment and the fifth game. Jobs aren't a central part of the game. I believe I said it was a "pet peeve" which means that I find customization lacking. And yes, I do find characters and built-in abilities to be limiting in extensive post-game play where I personally look at them more as units than as story related players.
Most Final Fantasy games don't stick with you built-in abilities. For the most part, Final Fantasy gives you plenty of room to customize your characters. I will admit that this doesn't apply to all of the games, but it does for most.

Also yes, I'm sorry for plugging in cross-genres of games that I liked into that statement. That was a mistake. I don't feel that it was the central point of my response. I think that the game play is dated and feel that the series should try to look outside the box. Regardless if the box is defining of the jRPG genre itself.
In the older games? Yes, the game play is dated. That's a given. But anyone who thinks that all Final Fantasy's game play is is standing in rows and taking turns clearly hasn't had much experience with any game post X.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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In the older games? Yes, the game play is dated. That's a given. But anyone who thinks that all Final Fantasy's game play is is standing in rows and taking turns clearly hasn't had much experience with any game post X.
Tell me what Final Fantasy XII is except a weak subversion of that by allowing you put in gambits that make the AI do automated output after your timer gets engaged.

finalark said:
Most Final Fantasy games don't stick with you built-in abilities. For the most part, Final Fantasy gives you plenty of room to customize your characters. I will admit that this doesn't apply to all of the games, but it does for most.
I'm sorry, but when I play an FF game I don't feel like I have a great deal of flexibility or creativity. FF IX gave you the stone slot system, but most of those were going to basic atk bonuses and status prevention skills. FF VIII gave you the draw system, but you were handicapping yourself i you weren't putting in ultima (I think) as a junction for your most important stat(s). From what little I've played of FF VII, I didn't find anything there but admittedly I only played the beginning of the game.
 

finalark

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Tell me what Final Fantasy XII is except a weak subversion of that by allowing you put in gambits that make the AI do automated output after your timer gets engaged.
I'm not getting what you're trying to say here.

A real time battle system with CPU controlled allies that you can set up instructions for is the same thing as turn based combat?
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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I'm not getting what you're trying to say here.

A real time battle system with CPU controlled allies that you can set up instructions for is the same thing as turn based combat?
I concede on this btw because I forgot about the AI part and the importance to setting up tank characters when you can have casters/guns/arrows shoot from a distance. The game play is still turn based, however you are right in that they are not static characters and placement has importance in fighting off smaller weaker enemies.

With respect to it being "dated" which goes back to my original comment, it has become a point of patience to wait for my enemy to attack me or for me to wait to attack them. Real time has been a part of other games, just named "Active Time Battle" and iirc was in FF V and most other games. In FF IX I remember that you could toggle it on and off. You were still dealing with turn based combat, just that static decision making was at your own expense. I personally would want to see a game play model oriented around the Zelda series or the other games I mentioned previously. I did like the departure that FF XII gave, but I found that I was using similar strategies for all the enemies which again comes back to the conflict of all jRPGs which is that game play becomes easily repetitive once common strategies are designed. Traps could have been more elaborate throughout the game as a whole. And I disagree with them making certain weapons appear on chance i.e. Demonsbane because I believe that no one actually expects the dungeon to be instanced with one or two items unless they go through multiple play throughs of the game.

In terms of applying a novel idea without breaking the current format, I wouldn't mind if enemies gathered information on skills and abilities carried by players such as the probes in FF X-2 so that later enemies in the dungeons or in the end of the game would adjust strategies accordingly and cause the player to adjust their own style of play consistently before they reach the boss of the area. Wasn't sure if it happened in FF XII, but I wouldn't mind if enemies that were dying ran away to regroup with other enemies. At this point I'm not targeting turn based game play, but rather static button mashing in lieu of more strategy oriented thinking. /personal taste
 

Jon Farron

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"Wasn't sure if it happened in FF XII, but I wouldn't mind if enemies that were dying ran away to regroup with other enemies. "

That happened quite often, lol it got kinda annoying, but also kept the battles fresh.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

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"Wasn't sure if it happened in FF XII, but I wouldn't mind if enemies that were dying ran away to regroup with other enemies. "

That happened quite often, lol it got kinda annoying, but also kept the battles fresh.
Been awhile :<
 

LivewiresXe

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Refunding digital things would be awesome. I could refund all my Uncharted 2 DLC, and that $30 I spent on Arcana Heart 3. I mean, it's a fine game it's just...I never play it and that'd be fine if it was $10, but $30? Err...
 
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