General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!

[theeboredone]

So 1Up is having some big special on Final Fantasy VII. I really wish people would just let that game go, there's thirteen other games in the series. Why can't the general gamer community acknowledge any of those?

Because the "general" gaming community grew up more on FF7 than any of the others. It's like asking why can't most Zelda fans let go of OoT.

 

[finalark]

Because people need to fanboy/fangirl over Cloud/Aeris despite Cloud/Tifa A. being made canon as a result of Advent Children, and B. making 100x more sense in every way anyway, lol.

Pretty much. When you really break down the game's narrative Aeris really only exists to provide a shock death.

Because the "general" gaming community grew up more on FF7 than any of the others. It's like asking why can't most Zelda fans let go of OoT.

True that. In twenty years we'll probably see now thirty something years olds having specials on Halo 3 or Arkham Asylum.

When you really get down to it Final Fantasy VII is only fondly remembered because it popularized JRPGs in the west. It really is a product of its time, that sort of mid 90s "VIDEO GAMES AREN'T FOR KIDS WE'LL PROVE WE'RE MATURE" mantra that all of the teens who grew up with Genesis'/SNES' were repeating. And by mature it means that its all bleak and the cheeriest character in the game dies because that's edgy and look there's a black guy who swears a lot that's mature right, right? And for RPG fans outside of the materia system and small party it really didn't do much that was new. Killing off the lead female? Try Phantasy Star II. Psedu-futuristic setting? Shadowrun had it covered. The one thing I can say it did well was ****ing with player expectations, which is what the game should be praised for. Your bad *** escapist super soldier protagonist? Just a ***** with personal issues who suffers a mental break down half way through the game.

/endrant

 

[Minato]

I feel bad that VII is one of my favorites out of the FF games (VI being first). V is up there too. VI and VII had some of the least interesting subsystems (?) though.
OoT is also my favorite Zelda game. Nostalgia's too hard to let go, haha.

I did like FFVI though IX though with the amount of content and sidequests they had. VIII felt like it had the least though, mostly due to disc 4.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Because the "general" gaming community grew up more on FF7 than any of the others. It's like asking why can't most Zelda fans let go of OoT.

There is actually a bit of truth to that. Hell, I still go and play Goldeneye and WWF No Mercy on the 64 these days since Goldeneye is the FPS I grew up on, and No Mercy is my favourite wrestling game.


I do agree partly on the FFVIII thing, but that game was really cutscene-heavy so I feel that's partly why it was 4 discs instead of 3 in the first place.

 

[finalark]

There is actually a bit of truth to that. Hell, I still go and play Goldeneye and WWF No Mercy on the 64 these days since Goldeneye is the FPS I grew up on, and No Mercy is my favourite wrestling game.

Well, that is a universal truth for everyone. I still like to revisit Final Fantasy 1 and Halo CE if only because I grew up playing them. Both games ages horribly but I know them like the back of my hand and always have fun when I pop them in and give them a go.

I just wish that some people could admit that sometimes their childhood classics don't age well, though. It really hurts when you put something up on a pedestal only to see it torn down by a nostalgia-free younger generation. Then you do your best to back it up and all you really have is memories from a bygone age to support your argument. Honestly, I've come to admit that most of the things I grew up with are probably ****. And if some snot nosed little punk comes by and dares to tell me that something I love from my childhood is crap, he's probably right.

 

[LivewiresXe]

You see, at that point, I tend to think of that "snot nosed little punk" as just an "uneducated snot nosed little punk" for growing up in an era where "graphics and fast paced action are all that matter".

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Which is a bit funny, don't you think? Would the current generation of gamers age to say what we're saying right now?

"Man, back in the day fast-paced shooting and graphics were the thing. WTH with all this VR stuff."

Lol.

When it comes to old FFs, I tend to go for the original 3, like, on the SNES. It was the first ever FF I've played (VII was the second), and it grew on me so much. I really couldn't play the DS remake for some reason. Just didn't have that same "UMPH".

 

[Lythium]

I dunno, FFVII is far from being my favourite in the series, but I still remember being incredibly impressed by it when I first played it. I guess I probably felt like I had never really seen anything like it before. And while I can definitely admit that it didn't age well (especially graphically), I still think it's a good game, possibly even a great game.

Same reason for OoT, I guess, haha.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

When I first started playing FFVII, I was about 8 years old. I got as far as the timer in the first reactor.

Around 7 years later I played it again and saved/stopped at the timer again for a couple of months, lol. Eventually I got around to finishing it, but that's something I haven't forgotten.

 

[LivewiresXe]

My first experience with FFVII is a bit odd and left me a bit less impressed because when I first got/played it, it was on PC. And while, sure it gave me a TON of save slots, there were a lot of transitional graphic glitches and occasional freezes and stuff. So, it left me feeling "meh" about it. And plus, the first 2 RPGs I played were Final Fantasy VI/3 on the SNES (to where I once as an 8 year old kid spent 2 days calling video stores in town trying to convince them to sell me their rental copy) and Chrono Trigger.

Though Virtual Reality? *shudder* It's the Virtual Boy as a full body suit!

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Have you not played Star Ocean 3? VR the bess.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Have you not played Star Ocean 3? VR the bess.

I have Star Ocean 3, got a few hours into it years ago, stopped playing and...well, that's been that.

 

[Minato]

I'm actually curious to know what people think about VII aging badly. I don't see it aging worse than any of the FFs around it.
The speed was fine, the story/content was fine, the random encounter rate was fine, and the difficulty was fine.
The biggest problem I found with the game is navigating in certain areas since it was really confusing where the path was.

As for graphics, the ingame battle graphics and such were pretty good. Outside of that, I guess.
It reminds me of sprites for other games so I don't find the look unplayable or anything like that.

The FFs that aged badly, imo, were the first 3.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I'm actually curious to know what people think about VII aging badly. I don't see it aging worse than any of the FFs around it.
The speed was fine, the story/content was fine, the random encounter rate was fine, and the difficulty was fine.
The biggest problem I found with the game is navigating in certain areas since it was really confusing where the path was.

As for graphics, the ingame battle graphics and such were pretty good. Outside of that, I guess.
It reminds me of sprites for other games so I don't find the look unplayable or anything like that.

The FFs that aged badly, imo, were the first 3.

It's probably how blocky the character models were if anything, I'd say.

 

[Lythium]

I find the running around and exploring aspect of FFVII somewhat clunky. I think it's hard to tell where you are going, and I just straight-up dislike the character models (but that's just a personal opinion, haha). I find VIII's characters and exploring much more streamlined.

Other than that, I don't have much issue with VII, to be honest. I just don't think it's the best.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I also found the whole Chocobo breeding thing a bit weird (partly since the colour on my pc monitor was off, so I thought I'd gotten like 6 Gold Chocobos that were just normal ones). It's like "so....you have an airship, or a Chocobo that can go EVERYWHERE the airship goes and then some?

 

[Minato]

Yeah, field controls were the worst aspect for VII (at least for me). Bad memories of places like Wutai and using those batteries to get to Shinra.

VIII's exploring and stuff was pretty interesting. It gave the most freedom and some of the least for me.
How open (and abusive) the junction system was along with the SeeD Tests was really nice.

I really feel like playing these two games again.

 

[Lythium]

I really like VIII, and yeah, the Junction system was broke as hell. But it was really fun to break! :3c

 

[LivewiresXe]

Yeah, it was all: "Hey, attach Ultima to any Stat to max it!". That and if you knew what you were doing, you could get Squall's Ultimate Weapon on the first disc.

 

[Minato]

Yeah, it was all: "Hey, attach Ultima to any Stat to max it!". That and if you knew what you were doing, you could get Squall's Ultimate Weapon on the first disc.

I would just get Siren and refine each tent into 20 Curagas and junction it to my HP so I'd have 5k health or so. Then just limit break my way to victory in disc 1.
I never knew about getting his ultimate weapon on disc 1 though. I should look into that.

Oh, and I also liked Encounter None ability in that game. Made exploring much more fun when you wanted to just get all the items.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I would just get Siren and refine each tent into 20 Curagas and junction it to my HP so I'd have 5k health or so. Then just limit break my way to victory in disc 1.
I never knew about getting his ultimate weapon on disc 1 though. I should look into that.

Oh, and I also liked Encounter None ability in that game. Made exploring much more fun when you wanted to just get all the items.

I totally forgot about that Encounter None thing. More games need to have that as a skill. I remember on my first time playing it, I thought each person could only have 1 Guardian Force at a time, so I would be missing a bunch of things. It wasn't until later that I realized "Oh right, you can give each person a bunch of them".

 

[Kuraudo]

It's kinda funny how similar VII is to Ocarina of Time in terms of hype and popularity. They're great games and a lot of what makes them so great is their history and legacy. Story f

 

[Kuraudo]

It's kinda funny how similar VII is to Ocarina of Time in terms of hype and popularity. They're great games and a lot of what makes them so great is their history and legacy. Story for me too but I say so long as other gems in the series get their love and recognition or dislikes if it's not your thing, I say there's nothing wrong with the attention such older games get.

Damn phone. Sorry.

 

[Lythium]

I think the point that finalark was trying to make is that anything can be made annoying by overhyping it to the point of blatant fanboyism. There's nothing wrong with liking things, but sometimes people take it too far. Same goes for disliking things, really.

 

[Minato]

I think the point that finalark was trying to make is that anything can be made annoying by overhyping it to the point of blatant fanboyism. There's nothing wrong with liking things, but sometimes people take it too far. Same goes for disliking things, really.

I remember thinking that way for VII because I was annoyed by the fanboys and how overrated it was.
But I kind of grew up and just like what I like regardless of popularity and whatnot.

But of course I'm not tied to nostalgia since I do like newer RPGs as well. Latest RPG I really liked was Xenoblade.

And on the subject of which games that didn't age well, Tales of Phantasia is probably number 1 on my list.
While I really love the game, it has so many issues now.

 

[Rutger]

It's kinda funny how similar VII is to Ocarina of Time in terms of hype and popularity. They're great games and a lot of what makes them so great is their history and legacy. Story for me too but I say so long as other gems in the series get their love and recognition or dislikes if it's not your thing, I say there's nothing wrong with the attention such older games get.

Damn phone. Sorry.

History and legacy do not mater once I start playing a game. I can respect a game for what it has done, but I would never use that as a reason for why the game is great.

I haven't played FFVII, but I do honestly believe that OoT is not as good as everyone likes to say. :/

 

[finalark]

I think the point that finalark was trying to make is that anything can be made annoying by overhyping it to the point of blatant fanboyism. There's nothing wrong with liking things, but sometimes people take it too far. Same goes for disliking things, really.

Pretty much.

It's kinda funny how similar VII is to Ocarina of Time in terms of hype and popularity. They're great games and a lot of what makes them so great is their history and legacy. Story for me too but I say so long as other gems in the series get their love and recognition or dislikes if it's not your thing, I say there's nothing wrong with the attention such older games get.

Damn phone. Sorry.

I can respect a game's history and legacy, but like Rutger said that doesn't really mean anything to me once I sit down and start playing it. For instance, I can respect that Goldeneye was the first FPS that really worked on consoles. But I personally do not enjoy playing that game because I have no nostalgia for it.

I think FF7 is actually pretty good for its time, but I think people should recognize that time was not kind to some aspects of that game.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I think the point that finalark was trying to make is that anything can be made annoying by overhyping it to the point of blatant fanboyism. There's nothing wrong with liking things, but sometimes people take it too far. Same goes for disliking things, really.

Yeah, that was most of my thing with Final Fantasy VII and (briefly, got over it quickly) Symphony of the Night. I must admit to being defensive when people claim Chrono Trigger's just "meh, but with good music" nowadays though. Or Suikoden II for that matter.

I guess that brings up another question. Do people praise and fanboy over the "lesser praised, but still good" games in an attempt to be contradictory or "rebel" against the majority?

 

[finalark]

I guess that brings up another question. Do people praise and fanboy over the "lesser praised, but still good" games in an attempt to be contradictory or "rebel" against the majority?

I'd assume its because they're tired of hearing the same praise for the same games over and over again and would like to see other titles get noticed.

 

[theeboredone]

Haha, speaking of FF8, I was always into "matching" guardians with characters. Like I gave Quizicotol (SP wtf) to Squall, while Ifrit was given to Zell.

I will say this, when the 3DS OoT came out, I was probably in the minority of not praising it. I definitely enjoyed the graphical upgrade...which I wish a lot of remakes would do, but there was not much else to go on.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Yeah, I always gave Queza to Squall and Ifrit to Zell too. I think. I'm trying to remember who I gave Shiva to, but I know I gave the wind one to Irvine whenever I was using him, and that Brothers was with Zell as his 2nd.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

I put everything on Squall and left my party members out on the current weaker ones, lol.

Kinda like how I play Pokemon. One is level 50 while everyone else is still 10-20s.

I was a jerk.

 

[finalark]

All of you are making me want to play through 8 again. Maybe next time I have a free weekend I will. I haven't touched that game since I will a wee little middle school student.

I put everything on Squall and left my party members out on the current weaker ones, lol.

Kinda like how I play Pokemon. One is level 50 while everyone else is still 10-20s.

I was a jerk.

If it wasn't for EXP share I'd have two high level mons while all the others are little level 20 ****s.

 

[Kuraudo]

Pretty much.



I can respect a game's history and legacy, but like Rutger said that doesn't really mean anything to me once I sit down and start playing it. For instance, I can respect that Goldeneye was the first FPS that really worked on consoles. But I personally do not enjoy playing that game because I have no nostalgia for it.

I think FF7 is actually pretty good for its time, but I think people should recognize that time was not kind to some aspects of that game.

Now that I'm sitting at a proper keyboard I can type better now. Yay!

For me, it's the same thing. My own point was that history and the grounds that were broken helped solidify their status in the eyes of the public. For those that can look beyond a status and play the games for what they are though, good on you! You're playing the game how it should be played, with a fresh mind and perspective.

Good or bad or mediocre or "great with some not so well aged parts", play and like the games you like and forget the haters.

 

[Jon Farron]

I just finished playing Final Fantasy IX for the first time the other day. Wow, what a game.

The story was amazing, I loved ALL the characters (except Amarant, I don't even know why he's there) even Quina was cute in a way.
I even liked the graphics, it looks like a DS game. (If not better)

The only thing I don't get is the final boss... seemed very random. Lol

 

[finalark]

I just finished playing Final Fantasy IX for the first time the other day. Wow, what a game.

Final Fantasy IX is my favorite game, like, period. I'm doing my yearly play through of it right now.

The story was amazing, I loved ALL the characters (except Amarant, I don't even know why he's there) even Quina was cute in a way.

Yeah, Amarant is kinda useless. Both in story and in game play.

The only thing I don't get is the final boss... seemed very random. Lol

I always thought that Necron was symbolic of the heroes over coming death and loss. The whole game is about each of the protagonists dealing with loss in their own way. So what better final enemy than death itself?

Although symbolic, from a narrative stand point it makes no sense.

 

[Minato]

FFIX's last boss was pretty much one of the many tributes to make the game like a classic FF. I've also heard that the slow battle system was also something that Sakaguchi wanted, even though the battle director wanted it to be the fastest FF .

It was a great game despite some faults (for me) as far as classic styled FFs go though. I also loved the final dungeon.
It reminded me of FFV's final dungeon in a way.

Even though I've only completed the game once, I'll do it again after I get my Vita.

 

[finalark]

I've also heard that the slow battle system was also something that Sakaguchi wanted, even though the battle director wanted it to be the fastest FF .

I'll be honest, the game's biggest flaws are its slow as hell battle system and its very, very flawed trance system. Although abilities are awesome. its like materia, that you get to keep.

 

[Rutger]

FFIV is my favorite, but FFIX is a very close second.

I still need to finish it though, I'm at the final dungeon. :/

 

[LivewiresXe]

FFIV is my favorite, but FFIX is a very close second.

I still need to finish it though, I'm at the final dungeon. :/

Not gonna lie, never got the appeal of FFIV. Though I DO remember thinking that when they showed Golbez fighting in an auto-battle "as a party member" that I wondered "if Golbez is this big badass, why does he only have 2000 hp all of a sudden when he had like 60,000 earlier? I want THAT GUY on my team...".