Karp-0S
Smash Journeyman
You don't even ness dtilt edge guard. How can you be top 1?
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General Discussion
- Thread starter Vyse
- Start date
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
Official Non-MBR Tier List.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=284778
Basically.
Fox
Falco
Jiggs
Shiek
Marth
Peach
Falcon
CBF the rest.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=284778
Basically.
Fox
Falco
Jiggs
Shiek
Marth
Peach
Falcon
CBF the rest.
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
its like a time machine back to 08..
Karp-0S
Smash Journeyman
Ness for Top Tier.
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
For pal I think
Sheik
Jiggs
Marth
Peach
Fox
Falco
Falcon
Thoughts?
Sheik
Jiggs
Marth
Peach
Fox
Falco
Falcon
Thoughts?
Zxv
Smash Lord
Why did you place Fox/Falco so low? Or am I reading it wrong?
For Aus imo:
Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco
Peach
Falcon
Jiggs
Rest are irrelevant.
Jigglypuff isn't broken imo. Mango & HBox are just amazing players who know the character. If there were more Jigglypuff players who placed like they do, I'd be more inclined to placing Jigglypuff higher. We need more Jigglypuffs in Aus...
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
Fox can't be top in our version. Peach and jiggs also live way longer because the top ones killing moves got nerfed.
Sheik has to be top because she doesn't have a bad matchup with anyone at least 50/50 or better (excl. IC's)
Peach and jiggs if played right just beat fox/falco. It's the characters not the players that influence my decisions. I'm still unsure of marth though I kinda just shoved him in the middle.
Sheik has to be top because she doesn't have a bad matchup with anyone at least 50/50 or better (excl. IC's)
Peach and jiggs if played right just beat fox/falco. It's the characters not the players that influence my decisions. I'm still unsure of marth though I kinda just shoved him in the middle.
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
Hooray for doubles...
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
bad opinions are bad
Zxv
Smash Lord
Useless posts are useless.
Fox/Falco don't really have any bad matchups.
Sheik gets hard countered by Jiggs and ICs, and to some extent Peach (moreso in Pal than NTSC). Her matchups with Fox/Falco range between 40:60 to 55:45, depending on who you ask. Sheik actually has more bad/slightly disadvantageous matchups than any other high-tier character.
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
" Sheik actually has more bad/slightly disadvantageous matchups than any other high-tier character."
such as?
such as?
Redact
Professional Nice Guy
pretty sure he already listed them all, maybe read his post before you post again?
zxv on the right track, sheiks no god
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
where is ganon ???
Zxv
Smash Lord
after Jiggs...
ICs
Samus
Ganon
Doc
Perhaps? Though we play Pal here, and Ganon's pretty terrible... So maybe he'd be lower...
Well, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you want proof for the "other high-tier characters" part, and not asking for examples of Sheik's bad MUs... so:
Fox: bad/SD MUs = Falco (debatable)
Falco: bad/SD MUs = Peach/Marth... Falco has a really good MU average.
Peach: bad/SD MUs = Falcon... 'bout it. Even with everyone else.
Jiggs: bad/SD MUs = Fox, which 55:45-60:40 (I hear Young Link/Doc counter Jiggs, but haven't really investigated much)
Marth: bad/SD MUs = Fox, Sheik = 60:40, but even with everyone else. If it wasn't for Marth's edgeguarding, Marth/Faclon would be 60:40 > 65:35 imo.
None of the other high-tiers have more than 2 MUs that aren't in their favour. Sheik has 2-4, with two being HARD counters, not just slightly tilted.
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
You answered yourself right there that's why peach an jiggs are so high.
I can't believe were both shiek players one thinks she's broken and one doesn't...
I can't believe were both shiek players one thinks she's broken and one doesn't...
Zxv
Smash Lord
Lol, I never said Sheik's not broken... I just believe Fox is above her. Only slightly. Sheik's definitely second, imo.
Tier lists aren't only based on tournament results, but also popularity at tournaments. If 3 Foxes win positions 2, 3 and 4 at a tournament but a Jiggs places first, I'll still place Fox higher on my list.
Once more HBox/Mango level Jigglypuffs emerge, THEN I'll place her higher. Same deal for Peach. Sure, sure, Armada's the ****... But disregarding him, there's not a whole lot out of the ordinary happening with Peach.
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
Yeah he also said jiggs bad mu is fox... Is her favour or at least even.
Fox can't kill her untill alot higher and gets gimped easier..
Fox can't kill her untill alot higher and gets gimped easier..
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
I know you think this. This is why I want 3-1 odds on our MM Fox vs Puff fd only.
Zxv
Smash Lord
Falcon/Peach is Falcon's favour imo. And about the Jiggs/Fox MU is even to slightly Fox imo. I wouldn't go as far to say it's 60:40, but some people might. 55:45 is closer to what I believe.
S.D
Smash Master
Peach loses to Fox/Marth Falcon is sorta 50-50...
Didn't we just make a new pal tier list not so long ago...
Fox da bess always in my book.
Didn't we just make a new pal tier list not so long ago...
Fox da bess always in my book.
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
Well like zxv says where's the top place fox finishers in any of our nationals?
Edit: Tom speaks the truth
Edit: Tom speaks the truth
ComboTurtle
Smash Lord
this is such a 2007 thing to say i think fox can perform well in the match up however i also think jiggs has a much easier time than fox and ESPECIALLY in pal i wouldnt even give it 50-50 to fox sure the fox player can **** jiggs if he plays amazing but no one plays that well to deal with jiggs cheapness and even if you win the first match you get taken to one of many ****ing ridiculously good jiggs stages. So basically jiggs is a ****ing *****.
Zxv
Smash Lord
Yeah I'm pretty biased because my Jiggs sucks, and I've never personally figured out the matchup. I gotta verse more Jigglypuffs so I can host a less dated opinion. Dekar, come to Boost XVI.
S.D
Smash Master
Just coz we don't have good foxes doesn't make PAL fox bad. Look at any other PAL playing nation and Fox does well there too (people like Remen, Zgetto, Prof Pro) etc. Sure Fox is a demanding character, but just coz we're all too sucky to use that doesn't devalue his overall strength as a char.
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
Don't quote me... It's not my point.
And also Europe PR goes Peach, Shiek and they have some of the best foxes I've seen.
Edit: Went and dug this up.
And also Europe PR goes Peach, Shiek and they have some of the best foxes I've seen.
Edit: Went and dug this up.
Karp-0S
Smash Journeyman
As far as my experiences go (just adding an opinion here),
I have to say, playing doc, that I dread a jiggs match-up more so than a fox one.
Foxes will show me a 2-3 stocking consistently, where jiggs players have either had me rip them a new one or have 4 stocked me. (same player)
This may be just down to me playing alot more fox match-ups opposed to jiggs, I figured I just add my 2 cents.
I have to say, playing doc, that I dread a jiggs match-up more so than a fox one.
Foxes will show me a 2-3 stocking consistently, where jiggs players have either had me rip them a new one or have 4 stocked me. (same player)
This may be just down to me playing alot more fox match-ups opposed to jiggs, I figured I just add my 2 cents.
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
Bringer won comrades with fox, just all the decent fox players have better other characters and don't want to risk it i.e kas. If dave played marth he would have gone fox obviously, but it was an uncomfortable match-up.
Fox took ages to develop in Australia mainstream cause everyone SUCKED so bad and got ***** early and never put time into him. So now we just copy Americans..
As for finishers, S.D has placed well a few times with fox, and back in the day when freddo played. Kas also won a couple locals using fox in a few matches. Like the last hotcats.. which he beat YOU with fox in the last set.
Again its just personal preference... and swords are BEEETTTAAARRR
ACCELERATE
Smash Lord
Kas also beat me with Game and Watch. Good logic
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
maybe he doesn't think much of you :<
nah it was more like he had a 5-game set to play around in.
**** that was boring.
nah it was more like he had a 5-game set to play around in.
**** that was boring.
isthattim?
Smash Ace
a good fox vs Doc has so many options it's ridiculous,
jiggs is easier, it just takes **** long if you do it properly
Sirias
Smash Champion
Game and Watch is beast, though. <3
I don't like playing Fox in any match-up other than Falcon, you just need to try too hard to win with him.
Marth and Peach and Sheik are better, easier.
I'd say the tier list, FOR ME AND MY OWN PERSONAL USE, would be...
Marth
Falco
Peach
Fox
Sheik
Mewtwo <3
... C:
It's a bit weird but yeah.
Also, Jiggs for 2nd/3rd, I say, I still think Marth can **** her.
And Falcon, too, seems to be good against her, TO ME.
I don't think Jiggs is the best character, I still think you need to be pretty **** good with her to do good with her, like any other character.
The hell just yawned about 20 times in a minute. Ow.
I don't like playing Fox in any match-up other than Falcon, you just need to try too hard to win with him.
Marth and Peach and Sheik are better, easier.
I'd say the tier list, FOR ME AND MY OWN PERSONAL USE, would be...
Marth
Falco
Peach
Fox
Sheik
Mewtwo <3
... C:
It's a bit weird but yeah.
Also, Jiggs for 2nd/3rd, I say, I still think Marth can **** her.
And Falcon, too, seems to be good against her, TO ME.
I don't think Jiggs is the best character, I still think you need to be pretty **** good with her to do good with her, like any other character.
The hell just yawned about 20 times in a minute. Ow.
Darkwing SykeDuk
Smash Dankist
I WANT the tier list to look like
Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco
Falcon
Peach
Jiggs
but in reality its probs a complete turnaround with peach falcon staying wer they arrrrrre. I think of fox as the best cause my fox has beaten everything good in Aus (lol dave quote after a match- "..mmm.. your fox is pretty goood" XD). Where as my marth struggles alot recently. Might just be I've neglected him so much T_T Same as sheik, having never put any effort into her, my sheik is still as good my marth/fox >_>
Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco
Falcon
Peach
Jiggs
but in reality its probs a complete turnaround with peach falcon staying wer they arrrrrre. I think of fox as the best cause my fox has beaten everything good in Aus (lol dave quote after a match- "..mmm.. your fox is pretty goood" XD). Where as my marth struggles alot recently. Might just be I've neglected him so much T_T Same as sheik, having never put any effort into her, my sheik is still as good my marth/fox >_>
Karp-0S
Smash Journeyman
This. x100
Karp-0S
Smash Journeyman
His Roy however...
Roy is undefeatable. Because Roy.
Ask moose, he'll back me up because Roy.
Roy is undefeatable. Because Roy.
Ask moose, he'll back me up because Roy.