Q&A Ganon's Cauldron of Questions (Ganon Q/A Thread)

[Xinc]

Pikachu has gotta be one of our toughest MU's.

We shield a shock, we get grabbed. We hop over, we eat a string of aerials. We get Uthrow'd, we get hit by thunder.

Ugh, Pikachu. -_-

I disagree. It's a matter of gaining the upper hand. From a grab, you get so many combos. Jab and ftilt are good spacing moves against Pika, and Dash attack hits under his duck.

 

[Sykkamorre]

I disagree. It's a matter of gaining the upper hand. From a grab, you get so many combos. Jab and ftilt are good spacing moves against Pika, and Dash attack hits under his duck.

Jab seems to miss 90% of the time.
But yeah, ftilt works wonders, as does dtilt to stop shocks at a relatively safe distance.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I really dislike playing against Pikachu personally. If he plays right, he's nearly impossible to edgeguard, and can't really be juggled outside of low percent followups. Not to mention because he's so short, it's really hard to hit him with any aerials in general.

I think my personal hardest matchup currently is Duck Hunt. The only missed tech choke combo you have on him is Jab, and he can cover his landing safely with the Clay Pigeon if you are not directly underneath him. Plus I honestly don't know what the best way to deal with the Can is. The times I have won this matchup are ones where I manage to either establish a techchase rhythm on him or edgeguard him to death.

After that matchup, Luigi, Pikachu, and Rosalina players I feel have been generally been the most difficult for me to deal with. They camp, it's a headache to avoid getting grabbed in those matchups, and they can all punish Ganondorf very hard when it matters.

I also find Sheik extremely difficult by design, but I feel like practically nobody that plays her on For Glory really knows what they're doing with her and I clutch out wins with Ganon's superior KO options. Not too many people play Robin, but I find him really difficult if he land traps correctly. Mega Man, Greninja, Villager, Sonic, and Lucario are very tedious, but doable as long as you know the right situations to avoid putting yourself in.

Everyone else I didn't mention here I currently feel Ganondorf likely has an approximately neutral matchup with on default settings. In my limited observation, most things seem winnable for Ganon as long as you avoid getting gimped too early.

 

[Z1GMA]

Once DHD has used up his DJ off stage, he's a sitting duck for Ganon to pluck. (Embarrass)

There's just no way he'll reach the stage or ledge unharmed Vs Ganon.

 

[Funkermonster]

This might be weird asking for advice against your own characters, but how do I tech your Flame Chokes? It might be For Glory lag and me using the Wii U Gamepad (only since I don't have a better controller to use), but whenever I fight most of you guys online I can never seem to tech roll away from the guys who do SideB > Dtilt (or sometimes Jab) and sometimes I can never win games against them when it happens, and get flat out killed by the dtilt if I'm at a high percent. When during the animation am I supposed to tech? Is the timing on it very strict?

EDIT: Also, is Ganondorf's Up Tilt really that bad?

Once DHD has used up his DJ off stage, he's a sitting duck for Ganon to pluck. (Embarrass)

There's just no way he'll reach the stage or ledge unharmed Vs Ganon.

I don't play Ganon, but I'm not too sure about that. DHD's recovery is indeed mediocre, but he does have situational ways that somewhat mitigate it, and I'm not so sure if your character can cover them all so easily since I don't know Ganon all that well.

1. If the stage is on a walled omega, he can safely wall jump, and sometimes he won't even need to use his upb since he'll already have snapped the ledge.

2. If custom moves are allowed, one of his customs called the Super Duck Jump gives a windbox around his body before ascending up to protect himself. On a situational use, he might even be able to use its windbox to gimp your recovery as a gimmicky tactic, somewhat similarly to Greninja's Hydro Pump. Not reliable for him, but doable.

3. He can still throw a can and/or gunman projectiles while DJing before restoring to his UpB and keep shooing can above himself, essentially giving his recovery a hitbox.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You might not be able to tech Flame Choke if you were caught buffering shield earlier. Keep that in mind. I don't think the tech timing window is that strict, but you HAVE to techroll to avoid the combo followups, though it's worth keeping in mind that they're still punishable if read.

Ganon's U-tilt is mostly pointless, except it's a nice option for pressuring ledge stalling when timed carefully.

 

[Xinc]

You might not be able to tech Flame Choke if you were caught buffering shield earlier. Keep that in mind. I don't think the tech timing window is that strict, but you HAVE to techroll to avoid the combo followups, though it's worth keeping in mind that they're still punishable if read.

Ganon's U-tilt is mostly pointless, except it's a nice option for pressuring ledge stalling when timed carefully.

I think that's what it should be entirely used for... other than punishing broken shields.

 

[_Magus_]

Well, since I recently was told Gerudo is actually useful in this game...any idea where I could find a followup chart? If anyone could point me to a thread or something, that'd be marvelous.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Well, since I recently was told Gerudo is actually useful in this game...any idea where I could find a followup chart? If anyone could point me to a thread or something, that'd be marvelous.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-wise-ganon-ats-competitive-discussion-guide.368849/
Scroll down. It's big and color-coded.

 

[_Magus_]

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-wise-ganon-ats-competitive-discussion-guide.368849/
Scroll down. It's big and color-coded.

Oh yeah, thought that was only choke for some reason. Thx!

 

[TonyTheTiger]

So I've been playing as, and against, a few Ganons on Wii U lately. It's got me thinking, is it really true that Ganon is always supposed to win during a Ganoncide? I've seen many people say that on here, and on other sites, but I've had numerous occasions where I, or my opponent will Ganoncide on their last stock, only to lose the match on the results screen.
Can someone explain this?

 

[adom4]

So I've been playing as, and against, a few Ganons on Wii U lately. It's got me thinking, is it really true that Ganon is always supposed to win during a Ganoncide? I've seen many people say that on here, and on other sites, but I've had numerous occasions where I, or my opponent will Ganoncide on their last stock, only to lose the match on the results screen.
Can someone explain this?

Ganoncide always favors Ganondorf.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

@ adom4 Can you explain in a little more depth? As far as I've seen, Ganon does not always win when he successfully Ganoncides. I've taken a replay and can record it later if that proves necessary.

 

[adom4]

@ adom4 Can you explain in a little more depth? As far as I've seen, Ganon does not always win when he successfully Ganoncides. I've taken a replay and can record it later if that proves necessary.

I'm positive he always wins, in Brawl it was kinda random.
try it on anybody & you'll see that Ganondorf dies second.

 

[Z1GMA]

I'm positive he always wins, in Brawl it was kinda random.
try it on anybody & you'll see that Ganondorf dies second.

In Brawl, Controller Ports decided if Ganon won or not, I believe.
And yeah, I've never lost when Ganonciding in smash 4.

 

[adom4]

In Brawl, Controller Ports decided if Ganon won or not, I believe.
And yeah, I've never lost when Ganonciding in smash 4.

I lost once when i Ganoncided into the barrel in kongo jungle 64...
Needless to say i was salty as ****.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I lost once when i Ganoncided into the barrel in kongo jungle 64...
Needless to say i was salty as ****.

Haha, and I turned that into a stock kill.

Gotta love the barrel.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ganon can do some nasty **** with that barrel.

 

[Scraptor]

I am struggling with returning to the stage from above. I got a lot of kills with a well timed Air WK but I know I am over using it and I am Gerudoing in the air as a way to throw them off but I know that is like super punishable. What are some good things to do to get the short lag possible or to punish an oppenent on the way down?

 

[MagiusNecros]

I am struggling with returning to the stage from above. I got a lot of kills with a well timed Air WK but I know I am over using it and I am Gerudoing in the air as a way to throw them off but I know that is like super punishable. What are some good things to do to get the short lag possible or to punish an oppenent on the way down?

Make your opponent learn to respect Fair. And you will suddenly always be able to land on the ground because your opponent will respect that punch and not want to get hit by it.

Fast Fall Bair can also surprise some people.

 

[WarioWaft]

Make your opponent learn to respect Fair. And you will suddenly always be able to land on the ground because your opponent will respect that punch and not want to get hit by it.

Fast Fall Bair can also surprise some people.

Agreed.

Warlock Punch that I have no intention of connecting with will sometimes scare my opponent to overthinking and doing something stupid like panicking and trying to hit me forgetting or not realizing I have super armor, or if I'm edge guarding they shield or press the wrong button because I caught them off guard and die.

 

[Scraptor]

Thanks Magius that the fairs have helped and I am working on the Bairs.

Wario yeah I will have to work on that because the only time I do a WP in air is when I dont mean to do it and SD lol

 

[WorstSSBPlayerInTheWorld]

why is Ganon's grab so short :'(

 

[MagiusNecros]

why is Ganon's grab so short :'(

Because Flame Choke reach is so long to make up for it. But yeah Ganondorf has huge arms yet only has T-Rex grab range.

 

[the king of murder]

How do you guys deal with Samus Zair?

 

[A2ZOMG]

How do you guys deal with Samus Zair?

Try to powershield it unless you're about max distance where it hits twice. Otherwise just shield it and be patient, and try to catch onto what Samus does AFTER she Z-airs, and mind your spacing and what moves you are in range of. Remember that Samus needs to commit a fair bit to make her Z-air safe on block, so just focus on getting closer when it's safe and then seeing what punish options you have later.

Sometimes if Samus likes hitting buttons and doesn't have Charge Shot ready, you can just rush her with DA. Other times if she goes for grab, you can try rolling inwards or SH N-air. Jab is usually a decent option when you get in range for it to stuff her pokes.

 

[Hi-Hatz]

Is there a whiff spot too close to the aerial Down-B shock-wave? I landed right next to somebody once and didn't knock them out of an attack they were charging. ;(

 

[Opana]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vbHCooJJitk

Can anyone explain what happened?

 

[Z1GMA]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vbHCooJJitk

Can anyone explain what happened?

I am 100% sure you just traded hits with the first hit of ROB's Uair.

 

[Opana]

Thak you, I was certain it was fair lol.but without my glasses it is difficult to tell.

 

[Z1GMA]

Thak you, I was certain it was fair lol.but without my glasses it is difficult to tell.

Well, on youtube you can go to options and play the vids in 0.25 speed, which I did.

 

[KieRanaRan]

I have trouble getting Ganondorf's Warlock Punch super armour window down. It never seems to be consistent with me whenever I try it (which it's often btw don't all lose your sh*t )

 

[A2ZOMG]

I have trouble getting Ganondorf's Warlock Punch super armour window down. It never seems to be consistent with me whenever I try it (which it's often btw don't all lose your sh*t )

It only works for GROUNDED version, and you can't reverse it.

Same thing applies to Warlock Blade. Warlock Thrust does not have armor however so reversing that one is more important.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

You can find a link to frame data at the end of the ATS thread. I believe the super armour for the regular punch starts at frame 11 and ends at frame 54/74.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Is the super armor effected by how much damage Ganon has taken?
Also can you get super armor if you start it from a short hop but land on the ground before its finished?

 

[Hi-Hatz]

Is the super armor effected by how much damage Ganon has taken?
Also can you get super armor if you start it from a short hop but land on the ground before its finished?

Gonna say no and no.

Yeah I checked the % thing to be sure. No and no.

 

[Xinc]

Gonna say no and no.

Yeah I checked the % thing to be sure. No and no.

It would be kind of good if he got super armor even while reversing and/or punching though. It'd be a safe move if he was getting juggled.

 

[MagiusNecros]

He only gets SA on the regular grounded version. Warlock Reverse loses the armor.

 

[Z1GMA]

Also can you get super armor if you start it from a short hop but land on the ground before its finished?

I've done this before, so I'm not gonna say it doesn't work.
I could test it wth a friend.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Any aerial WP will not have any SA.