Ganonic Grimoire (Social) - Commiseration and Hierarchy

[Supreme Dirt]

I use it for damage racking, and DTilt and FTilt for killing.

 

[DLA]

I honestly see no use for flipman... does anyone actually hit their opponents with it? No one should be standing that close to the edge to get hit by it.

Most characters in the game can ledge hop aerial onto the stage, so it's not like the opponent doesn't expect the option. And if you mess up the flipman, chances are you're dead (if your opponent is smart enough to edgehog).

And yeah I know it cancels the RCO lag, but it's not like there's no lag after the Uair. It's still very easy to punish.

edit: Dash attack is by far our best attack. It's pretty much the only move we have that we can punish our opponent with, without them making a stupid mistake.

 

[Moblin]

I'm glad you discredited flipman because now I have an excuse for not learning it other than because it's ****ing hard.


DA the best attack? Damn... but I can't think of a better one after people started shieldgrabbing the foot on D tilt.

 

[Vermanubis]

I honestly see no use for flipman... does anyone actually hit their opponents with it? No one should be standing that close to the edge to get hit by it.

Most characters in the game can ledge hop aerial onto the stage, so it's not like the opponent doesn't expect the option. And if you mess up the flipman, chances are you're dead (if your opponent is smart enough to edgehog).

And yeah I know it cancels the RCO lag, but it's not like there's no lag after the Uair. It's still very easy to punish.

I use it all the time with a good level of success. It cancels RCO lag (which is obviously a huge deal), it can be used with any move, really. I sometimes flipman > wizkick to catch people off guard who expects a ledgehop > aerudo and stand far back. It's great for mix-ups and it's actually pretty difficult to punish, since the only part of Ganon they can really touch is his UAir hitbox. And while it's true it's risky, if you can execute it at least 90% of the time, it shouldn't be a problem.

It's a move that requires selectivity and moderation, but it's extraordinarily useful and has won me matches before. It's extremely difficult to learn, let alone perform with consistency, but it's worth it. The fact that it can provide a quick ledge recovery that cancels RCO in and of itself should be incentive to learn and master it.

 

[DLA]

Well yeah it cancels RCO lag, but the Uair itself has as much lag as the RCO lag lol. Maybe even more.

(I'm talking about the side B RCO lag)

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I personally don't use Side-B to recover anymore. This probably has more to do with playing Mario and Pit frequently though. Damnable Capes and Mirror Shields.

 

[Vermanubis]

Well yeah it cancels RCO lag, but the Uair itself has as much lag as the RCO lag lol. Maybe even more.

(I'm talking about the side B RCO lag)

I'm confused. The UAir doesn't have any lag when you get onstage. That's the point of Flipman--it cancels out all lag when you do it onstage. It's incredibly quick and virtually unpunishable unless the person makes a specific effort to counteract it.

I'm just confused. It'd be too far of a shot to say you didn't know that, being a Ganon main as long as you have, but I'm not sure where the lag part is coming from. o_O Whenever I flipman, it's a quick, smooth transition onto the stage with zero lag.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

The thing is, an AC still has RCO lag.

Flipman is just weird in that it seems to AC, but the game counts it as landing during an aerial, thus cancelling out RCO lag.

 

[DLA]

I'm confused. The UAir doesn't have any lag when you get onstage. That's the point of Flipman--it cancels out all lag when you do it onstage. It's incredibly quick and virtually unpunishable unless the person makes a specific effort to counteract it.

I'm just confused. It'd be too far of a shot to say you didn't know that, being a Ganon main as long as you have, but I'm not sure where the lag part is coming from. o_O Whenever I flipman, it's a quick, smooth transition onto the stage with zero lag.

Hmmmm... I just did some testing, and I guess I was doing Flipman the wrong way. I always do it with the C-stick, which makes the Uair not come out in time to autocancel.

I just tried it with A+up and it seems to autocancel. I never really thought it was important enough to learn properly I guess.

I still think it's too dangerous though... even if you can do it 90% of the time, the other 10% will probably be a SD if your opponent's smart. I don't like those odds, especially when the flipman itself doesn't actually do anything worthwhile except get rid of a few frames of RCO lag.

It's probably a decent occasional mindgame, but I'm not sure how it could win you a match haha.

 

[Vermanubis]

Hmmmm... I just did some testing, and I guess I was doing Flipman the wrong way. I always do it with the C-stick, which makes the Uair not come out in time to autocancel.

I just tried it with A+up and it seems to autocancel. I never really thought it was important enough to learn properly I guess.

I still think it's too dangerous though... even if you can do it 90% of the time, the other 10% will probably be a SD if your opponent's smart. I don't like those odds, especially when the flipman itself doesn't actually do anything worthwhile except get rid of a few frames of RCO lag.

It's probably a decent occasional mindgame, but I'm not sure how it could win you a match haha.

Well, it's all about how you use it. You can kind of gauge when it's right to use it and when it's not. Truth be told, the benefit of it is more the follow-ups rather than the actual UAir. I'm just very comfortable using it, so the SD issue isn't really a problem for me/

And, yeah, the move itself hasn't won me matches, but it's saved me from really bad situations and pulled some really awesome setups for me that did directly assist in winning the match.

 

[Exalted]

I do Flipmen. With F-air.
I'm not even joking.

 

[Heartstring]

with flipman it uses hte u-air to autocancel and also end the RCO lag
one thing that people TEND to forget is that even if you autocancel RCO lag, you still get a slower landing animation. as shown by marth most noticeable, if you land during a fair, you get a few frames extra landing lag, the landing animation in general after an autocancel is doubled in duration (imagine liek a reverse l-cancel)
you can test this with ike and marth, attack ikes shield with marth then get ike to punish with jab, if marth lands after up-b and get marth to up-b ASAP, the jab will land, if marth does the same thing but NOT after grabbing the ledge. then the up-b will connect nad ike gets punished

isnt frama data fun? -__-

 

[Supreme Dirt]

@Exalted: Video. Now. Let's see.


Also, I have a binder with every character's frame data, that I could find anyway. It just occurred to me I don't have the frame data for RCO lag... hmmmm.

 

[Vermanubis]

@Exalted: Video. Now. Let's see.


Also, I have a binder with every character's frame data, that I could find anyway. It just occurred to me I don't have the frame data for RCO lag... hmmmm.

I think he's referring to getting onstage with a FAir. You can get onstage with any of Ganon's aerials from the ledge, but only UAir does the lag canceling.

 

[smashkng]

I think he's referring to getting onstage with a FAir. You can get onstage with any of Ganon's aerials from the ledge, but only UAir does the lag canceling.

Don't forget Bair.

 

[Vermanubis]

Don't forget Bair.

I think he's referring to getting onstage with a FAir. You can get onstage with any of Ganon's aerials from the ledge, but only UAir does the lag canceling.

I would never.

I gotta admit though, I'm surprised so few people actually knew what flipman is/was. o_O It's an excellent AT, and granted it's really tricky to pull off and a little risky, it's just really good for a lot of things. In fact, I don't see many Ganons make use of his WKC a lot either.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

In fact, I don't see many Ganons make use of his WKC a lot either.

I use it every opportunity I can. Wizkick is my Ganon's primary mode of transportation.

 

[Vermanubis]

I use it every opportunity I can. Wizkick is my Ganon's primary mode of transportation.

Lol, awesome. That makes two of us.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Admittedly, I never knew how to do the WKC. I could just as easily watch tutorials on Youtube involving the technique, but I procrastinate... a lot. X___x

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Don't forget Bair.

I would never.

I gotta admit though, I'm surprised so few people actually knew what flipman is/was. o_O It's an excellent AT, and granted it's really tricky to pull off and a little risky, it's just really good for a lot of things. In fact, I don't see many Ganons make use of his WKC a lot either.

I think he meant that bair autocancels onto the ledge just like uair, which it does.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Vermanubis, would you happened to have fought Zadra in a recent tournament you been to? Did you place well?

Also, unlock the Ganongasm III thread. Me and Breezy are gonna get our match done.

 

[Vermanubis]

I haven't entered a tourney in almost 3 months due to family issues. I plan on going to one this weekend, though. As for Zadra, the name sounds... vaguely familiar, but I can't say I've ever fought said person in tourney.

Also, I'll unlock it once you two actually get the match done.

 

[Noobicidal]

I'm just popping in to say hello.

 

[Technodeath]

Ohai cidal.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Hey, it's cidal. Been a while.

We should use the Xat chat again, or make an irc channel.

Someone would have to unban me from the xat though.

 

[Makke]

...................

 

[GoV]

Greetings fellow Dorfs.
My brawl has died 1 week ago and now I got it back via USB Loader.
I am able to play online etc etc but I seem to be lagging alot lately.

Maybe one of you knows if it's because I use USB loader (brawl) or it's just my internet?

=)

 

[Exalted]

If your Internet was fine back when you used a disc it's pretty obvious what the faulty component is.

 

[GoV]

That's the problem.
My internet has these moments that it goes madness for some time.
I don't know when it starts (well most of the time with lag of course) and I never really know when it ends.

Lately my internet HAS been going slow so here's hoping it's my internet.
Otherwise screw Brawl. :3

 

[KenniSpam!]

pickinng up ganon

how do i do that super jump wizkick thing

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Oh god.

KenniSpam found us.

 

[KenniSpam!]

how do i do it

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I swear, you're following me around or something.

 

[Noobicidal]

pickinng up ganon

how do i do that super jump wizkick thing

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203754

There are also four videos in the OP demonstrating the move.

 

[DLA]

Oh god.

KenniSpam found us.

No one talk about anime or I will ****ing KILL you.

 

[Noobicidal]

No one talk about anime or I will ****ing KILL you.

So Kenni, are you familiar with the series "Rozen Maiden" by any chance?

 

[Vermanubis]

DLA, let's hold off on the King of Evil thing 'til after Pound. I got ***** out of a ride this weekend, so I can't go to Hall of Gaming, and according to your AiB page, you've got a tourney the 18th as well. So let's do it the 20th. Sound good?

 

[KenniSpam!]

So Kenni, are you familiar with the series "Rozen Maiden" by any chance?

Is it ecchi?

:dajayman:

 

[Noobicidal]

Is it ecchi?

:dajayman:

No, it isn't. However, if you love dolljoints and Victorian nightgowns as much as me, you'll enjoy that aspect of it.

 

[Technodeath]

Hnnnnnnnng. A lot of Anime makes me do that.