Ganonic Grimoire (Social) - Commiseration and Hierarchy

[Vermanubis]

Personal experience is what matters most, A2. I don't get results because I'm unobservant and unthoughtful. I get them because I understand Ganon and the game intimately <through> experience, which ultimately is the scalpel that chisels the wax of theory. I theorize, too, but I know better than to pontificate before I practice. How do you think I'm able to take on some of Ganon's most reviled MUs? Because I spent quite some time theorizing, and that which proved to be unsound, I discarded.

And discoveries such as that don't qualify you to model fleshed-out MUs in which you likely project only your own personal playstyle onto.

 

[Bloodynite]

*reads random posts*
*sees theory on how to abuse on brinstar* lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

Personal experience is what matters most, A2. I don't get results because I'm unobservant and unthoughtful. I get them because I understand Ganon and the game intimately <through> experience, which ultimately is the scalpel that chisels the wax of theory. I theorize, too, but I know better than to pontificate before I practice.

And discoveries such as that don't qualify you to model fleshed-out MUs in which you likely project only your own personal playstyle onto.

And again, you fail to understand that what I know in theory is stuff I've tested and learned through experience as well. I merely don't get results since I don't have time to improve my execution. It doesn't take an amazing player to see what works from experience.

 

[stingers]

execution lol...i thought u jump oos against uairs flawlessly? hell from the way u talked about it that should start winning u tournament sets asap

 

[A2ZOMG]

It DOESN'T TAKE AN AMAZING PLAYER to be able to have good observations. The main thing I lack is M2K's almost absolute freedom to practice hours upon hours to perfect things. It doesn't change the fact that things exist, and that people should know about them.

 

[Bloodynite]

wut........

 

[A2ZOMG]

^perfect example how the average player just frankly doesn't have good observational skills. No offense really, you're normal there. I just merely want other people to improve at this game because I KNOW they can.

 

[stingers]

god I give up. i cannot act as condescending as you if I try

 

[A2ZOMG]

You only perceive it as condescending. I'm simply just stating it as it is, and I am extremely non-discriminating and generally hold nothing personal against anyone.

 

[Bloodynite]

^perfect example how the average player just frankly doesn't have good observational skills. No offense really, you're normal there. I just merely want other people to improve at this game because I KNOW they can.

well thats just pretty dam insulting considering you can't use brinstar for **** with ganon

 

[A2ZOMG]

I don't care that people lose to you just because they don't know about stupid gimmicks that you can easily react to. Hell I don't care that I can outperform other people with my Ganon on Brinstar just because I'm good at pulling gimmicks out of my ***. Come up with something else before trying to prove to me that Ganon actually is good on Brinstar. I am not the only person here who understands that Ganondorf isn't good on Brinstar.

 

[DLA]

Lol what I don't get is how we can have such a long, heated debate about Brinstar, but no one mentions the lava at all.

It's not Brinstar's layout that makes it a bad Ganon stage... it's the lava. I wouldn't mind Brinstar's layout that much if it wasn't for the lava ****ing everything up every 30 seconds

 

[Bloodynite]

actually i dont even get gimmicks most of the time ANYWAY

its just knowing how to space and giving yourself room to think

and if i actually didnt have such horrible explanation skills i could actually type it out but the best thing i CAN do is show through example which is a shame since i dont go to tourneys very often and the only ganon main ive ever meet that wasn't part of MD/VA is verm

and how is the lava a bad thing man? i always think its the best part since thats the best time to get breathing room to think about what to do next..... or do most of you all just auto pilot

 

[Noobicidal]

I wouldn't mind Brinstar's layout that much if it wasn't for the lava ****ing everything up every 30 seconds

It's not like the lava is completely random or anything. I'd much rather deal with that than have to deal with the bullets on Pictochat.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Lol what I don't get is how we can have such a long, heated debate about Brinstar, but no one mentions the lava at all.

It's not Brinstar's layout that makes it a bad Ganon stage... it's the lava. I wouldn't mind Brinstar's layout that much if it wasn't for the lava ****ing everything up every 30 seconds

I've mentioned the lava more than once. Ganon really can't capitalize on it as well as other characters most of the time, and given his mobility, he's also getting hit by it more often than other characters. The layout detriment mainly applies to playing against MK, Mario, Luigi, and G&W.

actually i dont even get gimmicks most of the time ANYWAY

its just knowing how to space and giving yourself room to think

That's fundamentally true. I feel you sorely underestimate how actually detrimental this is to Ganon. You probably don't play enough short characters who crouch though.

and how is the lava a bad thing man? i always think its the best part since thats the best time to get breathing room to think about what to do next..... or do most of you all just auto pilot

Here's how other characters can abuse the lava better than Ganon:

*Camp with a projectile that either chips at you while your shield is worn, or forces you to approach and get ***** by platforms.
*Use better mobility to capitalize on times you get hit by the lava. Something Ganon wishes he was better at doing
*ACTUALLY cover entire platforms with grounded moves. Ganon happens to be a character who is bad at doing this, which lowers the threat of approaching him, should you absolutely have to.

 

[DLA]

and how is the lava a bad thing man? i always think its the best part since thats the best time to get breathing room to think about what to do next..... or do most of you all just auto pilot

it doesn't give you breathing room if your opponent actually approaches you when the lava's up. all ganon can do is sit there and shield... he has a ****ty OoS game so he can't punish anything OoS, and if he drops his shield for anything then he's probably going to get hit into the lava and take massive damage.

you shouldn't need breathing room anyways... especially since your character doesn't require oxygen lol XD

Plus it's not like you can sit on a platform and form a complicated plan on what to do next lol. all you can do is either approach or camp. or just approach in ganon's case.

 

[Bloodynite]

i have one question.... why the hell would you shield the lava...?

 

[A2ZOMG]

When did anyone mention that?

Our points are that Ganon legitimately is going to take more damage from the lava than most characters due to his bad mobility. His bad mobility also limits his ability to punish people who get put in bad positions by the lava as well.

 

[DLA]

i have one question.... why the hell would you shield the lava...?

no no no... when the lava rises, it makes you jump to a platform and stand there so you don't get hit by the lava. Since ganon can't maneuver well enough to jump to another platform safely, all he can do is stand there and shield if his opponent approaches him. In which case he is royally boned.

I'm guessing most players you've fought on brinstar haven't realized this and didn't try to capitalize on it.

 

[stingers]

not really dla...u can just jump over him, or beat his approach when he comes to ur platform. hes taking a risk by going towards u, its brawl, hit him away lol

 

[DLA]

not really dla...u can just jump over him, or beat his approach when he comes to ur platform. hes taking a risk by going towards u, its brawl, hit him away lol

if you jump over him, then you're probably going to end up in the lava lol... and if you're on a platform, you don't have any way to space an attack to beat his approach... you need to just attack and hope it hits him before he hits you. and it probably won't, especially if their hitbox is disjointed

sure, your opponent is taking a risk... but it's a pretty damn small risk

 

[A2ZOMG]

You do realize that jumping can be RETARDEDLY unsafe if the opponent simply has good spacing or just airdodges? I see DK players get away with airdodge -> U-tilt all the time against people who try too hard to juggle him with aerials. That's one example, but the point is Ganon is very very limited on Brinstar, especially during lava rises.

 

[stingers]

meh in brawl theres always an answer. if hes coming down with an aerial u can shield it, spotdodge if u have to to avoid getting knocked off. if u think hes gonna airdodge (generally if u see them fastfalling theyre planning to airdodge...but thats char dependant) just drop shield and jab or something. the platforms are small, it'll reach lol. and ganons uair has really good range if u just instant use it, so thats a good oos if ur already shielding for w/e reason...unless ur fighting like a marth or MK your uair will prolly win that trade

 

[A2ZOMG]

You're logic is extremely flawed if you think in Brawl there is always an answer. There are clearly examples of tools and situations that dominate every time they are implemented. There is no answer to escape from combos that don't send you into tumble. There is no escape from the various infinites in this game besides not getting hit by them. There isn't a **** thing DK or Bowser can do to get up from the ledge safely when their damage exceeds 100%.

And while to an extent the situation DLA mentioned does require a slight amount of reading, it's still an extremely bad position for Ganon when he has to jump to a platform because of the lava. More often than not, he is going to get hit for it since his mobility sucks and doesn't let him space freely and since he can't really cover landings on the platform reliably.

 

[Bloodynite]

well then by that logic Ganon is ALWAYS IN A BAD position so... WHATS THE POINT OF EVEN PLAYING THIS GAME WITH HIM?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ganon's manliness is never in a bad position. I mean it's always about being manly right?

 

[stingers]

a2z is someone who focuses on the negatives, rather than the positives. just let him be

 

[A2ZOMG]

People like you only add to the negatives. I like to focus on presenting correct information, something that leaves much to be desired from you.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

*sigh*

Worst two pages of this thread in a while.

But at least it's active again.

 

[Bloodynite]

Active yet nothing was achieved =/

 

[Exalted]

**** this. I'm switching mains.

 

[TP]

**** this. I'm switching mains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COG-MvZVhzo

 

[Supreme Dirt]

It's looking like I'll be coming home, back to Ganon.

I just can't find any other character that I genuinely enjoy playing.

 

[Exalted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COG-MvZVhzo

Blast it. I couldn't after all.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Join the club.

 

[Bloodynite]

you can never drop ganon..... hes like the cancer that just wont DIE!!!.....


but i still love him <3

 

[Exalted]

It's more like the gravitational pull of his mythical phallus makes escape impossible.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Well, on the bright side I have D3, GaW, and Lucario for MUs I won't play.

I guess at least something good came from my foray into not-Ganon characters.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Whoa supreme, givin' up on jiggz this early?

for shame.

 

[Tonsana]

Edit......