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Ganonic Grimoire (Social) - Commiseration and Hierarchy

DLA

"Their anguish was my nourishment."
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Yeah namesearch doesn't work for every post made after April Fools.

Just go to Google and type "site:smashboards.com Supreme Dirt", then sort by date. It's almost as good as namesearch.



Also, IMO, Ganon:CF and Ganon:Bowser are both even or slightly in Ganon's favor. Ganon would destroy Bowser if it wasn't for Koopa Klaw.
 

A2ZOMG

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Yeah, what Bloody said. I don't know where all these people get these ideas that Bowser's like laughably easy for Ganon. Only a handful of good Bowsers exist (King Kong, Phiddlesticks, Limit and Zigsta) and the former three never let me do any of that unrealistic theorycrafting BS on them like consistent chainchokes, or ****** him with DAirs.

Bowser's pretty easy to hit, but he's EXCEPTIONALLY difficult to kill, really not that easy to tipman unless he's a decent ways below you and his Klaw cancels wreak havoc on Ganon's approaches and defenses. Bowser's not HARD, but he's definitely not even.
Bowser is the easiest character in the game to kill. I don't understand why you disagree. When Bowser recovers, you either **** HIS *** on the ledge, or you never let him land on his feet safely. Simple as that. You rinse and repeat until he dies, or until you can gimp him. You don't need to do anything ridiculously hard to beat Bowser. You just need to simply have good fundamentals in spacing, edgeguarding, and edgetrapping. Especially if Bowser's damage is above 100% when he loses the last half decent ledge option he might have had, he should essentially be dead once you get him offstage, since he simply does not have the tools to get back on stage at all.

Ganon imo beats Bowser 55/45. Simply because he gets better reward in this matchup. Bowser is easy to hit, which is all that matters, because once he's off his feet, he can't realistically get back on them. He can't get nearly as much reward off a random hit like Ganon can because his edgeguarding and juggles suck.

Klaw is mostly a gimmick that he can punish you with if you space poorly. Offensively it's pretty worthless given how easy it is for Ganon to stop. Like, specifically the Klaw as an air grab. It sucks. Just space well, and he doesn't really have a real use for that.

Nobody was saying that Bowser is laughably easy for Ganon, but the facts are Ganon has better tools in the matchup than Bowser does. Bowser doesn't really dominate Ganon on the ground that convincingly, while on the other hand Ganon clearly has a noticeable advantage everywhere else. And Bowser basically loses a stock once he's offstage at 100% if you simply are patient and know how to juggle and how to edgetrap.
 

Heartstring

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Bowser is the easiest character in the game to kill. I don't understand why you disagree. When Bowser recovers, you either **** HIS *** on the ledge, or you never let him land on his feet safely. Simple as that. You rinse and repeat until he dies, or until you can gimp him. You don't need to do anything ridiculously hard to beat Bowser. You just need to simply have good fundamentals in spacing, edgeguarding, and edgetrapping. Especially if Bowser's damage is above 100% when he loses the last half decent ledge option he might have had, he should essentially be dead once you get him offstage, since he simply does not have the tools to get back on stage at all.

Ganon imo beats Bowser 55/45. Simply because he gets better reward in this matchup. Bowser is easy to hit, which is all that matters, because once he's off his feet, he can't realistically get back on them. He can't get nearly as much reward off a random hit like Ganon can because his edgeguarding and juggles suck.

Klaw is mostly a gimmick that he can punish you with if you space poorly. Offensively it's pretty worthless given how easy it is for Ganon to stop. Like, specifically the Klaw as an air grab. It sucks. Just space well, and he doesn't really have a real use for that.

Nobody was saying that Bowser is laughably easy for Ganon, but the facts are Ganon has better tools in the matchup than Bowser does. Bowser doesn't really dominate Ganon on the ground that convincingly, while on the other hand Ganon clearly has a noticeable advantage everywhere else. And Bowser basically loses a stock once he's offstage at 100% if you simply are patient and know how to juggle and how to edgetrap.
he strikes again!!!
 

A2ZOMG

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Ganon Falcon is pretty even slightly in Falcons favor on pretty much all stages cept brinstar and maybe Delfino

Even though ganon has some pretty good tools when fighting bowser i still wouldn't really consider them enough to say that ganon has "Dangerous pressure game" in the MU
Why do you think Ganon does well against Falcon on Brinstar? Falcon bodies Ganon pretty convincingly on Brinstar from my personal experience. Brinstar in general is just a bad stage for Ganon where you aren't allowed to space aerials as freely. Lavacide gimmicks almost never work against competent players. Now if you replaced Brinstar with Norfair, I might reconsider your argument. But seriously, Brinstar is just overall bad for Ganon.

I also don't really know why you think Delfino is special for Ganon vs Falcon either.

Ganon's pressure is dangerous in that he gets a lot of reward for successfully hitting Bowser. Given that Bowser is probably by far the worst aerial character in the game, this is something Ganon can capitalize on pretty well given that Ganon does best at picking apart grounded characters for the most part.
 

Vermanubis

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Bowser is the easiest character in the game to kill. I don't understand why you disagree. When Bowser recovers, you either **** HIS *** on the ledge, or you never let him land on his feet safely. Simple as that. You rinse and repeat until he dies, or until you can gimp him. You don't need to do anything ridiculously hard to beat Bowser. You just need to simply have good fundamentals in spacing, edgeguarding, and edgetrapping. Especially if Bowser's damage is above 100% when he loses the last half decent ledge option he might have had, he should essentially be dead once you get him offstage, since he simply does not have the tools to get back on stage at all.

Ganon imo beats Bowser 55/45. Simply because he gets better reward in this matchup. Bowser is easy to hit, which is all that matters, because once he's off his feet, he can't realistically get back on them. He can't get nearly as much reward off a random hit like Ganon can because his edgeguarding and juggles suck.

Klaw is mostly a gimmick that he can punish you with if you space poorly. Offensively it's pretty worthless given how easy it is for Ganon to stop. Like, specifically the Klaw as an air grab. It sucks. Just space well, and he doesn't really have a real use for that.

Nobody was saying that Bowser is laughably easy for Ganon, but the facts are Ganon has better tools in the matchup than Bowser does. Bowser doesn't really dominate Ganon on the ground that convincingly, while on the other hand Ganon clearly has a noticeable advantage everywhere else. And Bowser basically loses a stock once he's offstage at 100% if you simply are patient and know how to juggle and how to edgetrap.
I'm all for theorizing, but for the sake of brevity through experiential credence, I've played the best Bowsers in the country, and I'm a very competent Ganon. In theory, Bowser is in Ganon's favor. But because we aren't game theorists, we can't model these theories accurately, so the highest order of credence in light of this is experience, which I have, and you, as far as I know, do not.
 

DLA

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I'm all for theorizing, but for the sake of brevity through experiential credence, I've played the best Bowsers in the country, and I'm a very competent Ganon. In theory, Bowser is in Ganon's favor. But because we aren't game theorists, we can't model these theories accurately, so the highest order of credence in light of this is experience, which I have, and you, as far as I know, do not.

 

Vermanubis

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Shaddap, you guise. :^| <3

I do wanna add that I mean that in the best way possible, A2. I don't think you're incompetent by any means, but you simply don't have the experience necessary to validate hypothetical scenarios. At least, not against people whose opinions are through experience in the field.
 

Supreme Dirt

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I'm still unconvinced that A2Z owns a Wii, never mind a copy of Brawl. I remember after Project:M was released, he immediately complained about the layout of the programming because that meant he couldn't figure out how the character played.
 

Bloodynite

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Why do you think Ganon does well against Falcon on Brinstar? Falcon bodies Ganon pretty convincingly on Brinstar from my personal experience. Brinstar in general is just a bad stage for Ganon where you aren't allowed to space aerials as freely. Lavacide gimmicks almost never work against competent players. Now if you replaced Brinstar with Norfair, I might reconsider your argument. But seriously, Brinstar is just overall bad for Ganon.

I also don't really know why you think Delfino is special for Ganon vs Falcon either.

Ganon's pressure is dangerous in that he gets a lot of reward for successfully hitting Bowser. Given that Bowser is probably by far the worst aerial character in the game, this is something Ganon can capitalize on pretty well given that Ganon does best at picking apart grounded characters for the most part.
Brinstar a bad stage for ganon? i just **** bricks

while the uneven terrain does prove to be problem for normal thunderstomping and over short hop aerials, if you know WHAT parts of the stages you can short hop you can still perform them just following a simple rule of common sense of ALWAYS hop from higher to lower and NEVER doing the opposite. Not only that but if you do short hop aerials and fast fall on a slope you can end up sliding a bit going further and even perform an attack that will have slightly more range than usual from the additional speed, Generally any attack will slide forward except for any sort of Special or Forward Smash.

Well of course it'll be hard going for a lavacide in competitive play in terms of a recovery in general since going for a ganoncide is almost ALWAYS obvious but you can still perform a lavacide on the stage to easily rack up a nice extra 30% of damage at the cost of like 14%. You can also go for the lavacide KO if your opponent is on top of one of the side platforms and simply go for the regular ganoncide just when the lava is rising and even if you DO MISS you can space yourself properly to catch the ledge to prevent yourself from SDing.

If I had some sort of recording device I could provide some examples and whatnot but alas i don't =/

The trick to using Brinstar effectively is thinking outside the box of normality and just test **** there that you really wouldn't even try on any other neutral or CP.
 

Heartstring

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FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

well then by THEORY if I punch my opponent quickly in the face at the start of the match then i can 3stock them correct?
on a lesser scale, by practise too!
just check people screaming in ice climbers mains ears in brawl, it works
 

DLA

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I hate brinstar with Ganon. Horrible stage.

The uneven terrain bothers me, but it's nothing compared to how much damage Ganon takes from lava compared to most other characters.

When the stage floods with lava, all Ganon can do is stand on a platform and shield. He can't maneuver well enough to do anything else. And when his opponent comes and attacks him, sure he can shield it, but he can't do **** OoS so he will get punished almost EVERY time when he has to drop his shield and do something. Usually it involves falling into the lava lol. And this happens like 6-12 times PER MATCH.

The only argument you can make about brinstar being good for Ganon involves stage gimmicks, like lavaciding or extending hitboxes by hitting parts of the stage. These will pretty much never work against good players though so it's not even really worth mentioning.

It also sometimes helps his recovery, but it just pops him back in the air again... most good players will punish this hard.


**** brinstar, it's such a bad stage
 

DLA

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well for some reason, most people think Ganon is good on brinstar. which I'm really thankful for... keep perpetuating that myth guys.

so I usually ban RC... they usually won't pick Brinstar because it's Ganon and he has a lot of bad stages. even if they don't believe that Ganon's good on brinstar, they'd rather pick a stage that's slightly less bad for ganon, than risk picking a stage that's good for Ganon.

If I'm fighting an MK then I'll just MK ditto them lol... I respect myself too much as a smash player to fight MK with Ganon on RC/Brinstar
 

Heartstring

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i dont really mind brinstar much with ganon, but the sloped terrain is something i hate on every stage, i gets in the way of my thunderstomping faaar too much
 

Supreme Dirt

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I would personally go to RC. I'm more comfortable there as Ganon than most stages. FoG helps.
 

Vermanubis

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I like Brinstar, but I need to get more comfortable with it. It hurts Ganon's DAir game, sure, but the benefits of the havoc he can wreak aerially, and the perks to the sloped terrain after a Gerudo are fantastic. It IS a good Ganon stage, but only if you really know how to manipulate the stage to the max. Bloody, I think, is the only Ganon who's really looked into the potential of Brinstar.
 

Supreme Dirt

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Yeah, Brinstar is definitely a good stage. However, it takes a lot of work to learn how to properly take advantage of it.
 

Heartstring

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well theres neat stuff which can be done using the fungi to extent hitbozes, for example, do an earial wizkick on the fungus patch in the middle, it lasts forever!
 

A2ZOMG

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Hey, Brinstar is one of my personal favorite stages to play on. It's a **** stage for someone like Mario who actually likes the platform placement. Ganon barely benefits at all from the platform layout on Brinstar to be frank, and would rather play on Battlefield. I play on Brinstar all the time with almost every character I use, and I've used Brinstar as a CP in tournament. I have reason to believe that I am knowledgeable about who actually is good on that stage.

I'm not stupid. I know that you're not supposed to Thunderstorm up slopes. The point is not being allowed to LIMITS your options. Also if someone actually ducks under a slope, it can actually be very difficult for Ganon to hit them with an aerial, if not sometimes impossible. You can say "be more creative". This doesn't change the fact that Brinstar limits Ganon's options very noticeably. Hell I can say that my Falco is amazing on Brinstar. Doesn't change the fact that the stage is ****ing terrible beyond belief for him, even though I know tons of amazing shenanigans like using Up-B as a platform pressure and mobility tool on that stage, Reflector as a poke against people who platform camp, etc.

And as DLA said, taking a lot of damage from lava isn't fun. Honestly the lava in this way hurts Ganon more than it helps him. Here and there, it might save you from a gimp, but given Ganon's poor mobility, he's also very liable to rack up damage that will KO him a lot faster on Brinstar. If we ignore that characters are able to gimp Ganon, it's worth noting that small blastzones are not favorable for Ganon in terms of comparative survivability. Small blastzones have a tendency to even out KO percents between characters, which for a heavy hitter like Ganon isn't exactly good news.

Also, hitlag shenanigans are bad in this game. They're good in Melee (on YI) where insane rushdown from space animals is commonplace, but in a game like Brawl where patience and waiting is prioritized more commonly, they really should never hit anyone in tournament.

RC is MUCH better for Ganon than Brinstar honestly. There is more room to move around, and the stage fundamentally requires everyone to be jumping during the moving transition, which is something Ganon appreciates since it means he doesn't have to worry about conventional spacing wars as much. Getting gimped by the stage should almost never happen if you're familiar with it. You have more freedom to choose which spot you want to stand on for the most part while the stage is moving, so you don't have to limit yourself to an area that is terrible for Ganon's air spacing. Brinstar however has static terrain that is almost always unfavorable for Ganon, and he adapts poorly to lava rises due to his bad mobility.
 

A2ZOMG

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You know who actually is underrated on RC? Falco. And if DEHF namesearches this, I will bet he will agree with me.

Falco is ****ing stupid on that stage if he's not an idiot gimping himself left and right. Fullhop D-air and constant retreat laser camping almost all day.

The only character who really has no reason to ever CP RC is Bowser honestly, given he's the worst aerial character in the game.

Now the irony here is you're accusing me of playing theorycraft on stages, when in fact I've spent quite a lot of time practicing and playing on these stages, as well as the fact I've used them in tournament. Bloody, I'll have to ask you why your argument is somehow not ridiculous theorycraft, when all you're telling me is impractical shenanigans that I know don't work against good players or people like myself who know how to exploit Brinstar. You really just seem to not understand that the platform layout is just TERRIBLE for Ganon (to be blunt, the platform layout on Brinstar is only GOOD for four characters. Metaknight, G&W, Mario, and Luigi, all characters who have an aerial that can effectively be used to frametrap jump out of shield when platform pressuring), minus the occasion where it helps you deal with edgetrapping, as well as the fact that due to his bad mobility, Ganon really just is one of the worst characters at effectively capitalizing on people who need to avoid lava rises. These are things that come into play MUCH more often than gimmicks like sliding approaches/retreats and lavacides to be frank. Another thing that's also much more common than those two things is the fact that your opponent, especially if he's a really small character can be harder to hit with aerials if they know how to work the slopes to their advantage.

You say I don't think outside the box, when in reality I'm extremely aware of almost every gimmicky and practical shenanigan that you can do on Brinstar and RC and several other stages. I'm going to accuse you of theorycrafting badly if you think that extremely situational and positional dependent gimmicks have priority over things that fundamentally are a detriment to YOUR ENTIRE BASIC SPACING AND STAGE CONTROL GAMEPLAN. Oh and hitlag shenanigans. People need to stop pretending that they're viable in this game.
 

A2ZOMG

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MK is undoubtedly the best character on Brinstar though. You should learn that stage.

Uh, Bloodynite, I'm well aware of everything you suggested to me that supposedly makes Ganon not terrible on Brinstar. I just don't get why you think it matters more than the fact that the stage legitimately hinders Ganon's basic spacing and stage control fundamentals. Add the fact there's almost an entire cast of characters who can actually use the lava better than Ganon because they have mobility, I don't get why you would ever pick Brinstar except because the ICs and Falco are legitimately hurt more by this stage. Besides them there really isn't a matchup that is made better by Brinstar. For example you might as well quit if a Metaknight who knows this stage takes you there. Snake and some other campy characters are extra annoying if they destroy the centerpiece on the stage. G&W and Jiggs still body you, probably worse on Brinstar given they barely care about the lava rises at all. Mario probably becomes unwinnable for Ganon on Brinstar because his camping and platform pressure is actually extremely gay on that stage. Really, I just don't see who Ganon takes to Brinstar expecting to do better against.
 

A2ZOMG

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I'm not buying that your area actually knows anything about how counterpick stages work.

All you're telling me is that you play people who fall for extremely gimmicky shenanigans that you can EASILY see coming and avoid. As well as the fact that there is a disgusting number of people who don't understand how to work terrain to their advantage in ways Ganon could only dream of.
 

Vermanubis

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I'm not buying that your area actually knows anything about how counterpick stages work.

All you're telling me is that you play people who fall for extremely gimmicky shenanigans that you can EASILY see coming and avoid. As well as the fact that there is a disgusting number of people who don't understand how to work terrain to their advantage in ways Ganon could only dream of.
I've lost maybe 2/50 matches at Brinstar in my life, and I make it a point to avoid incompetent players. Ganon loses one thing (TSing) but gains an uncanny amount of other things.

Theory aside, I'm talking from experience. Three generous platforms in an enclosed space means Ganon gets to have a field day with aerials he'd otherwise miss out of for the most part, even at BF (FAir, most notably). The lava increases his survivability and he has any even easier time landing kills due to short blastzones. I've gotten kills on Wario at Brinstar from a FAir at 60%.

It isn't an ideal stage for against all characters, but against a considerable deal, it is a boon that most Ganons (including myself) overlook. I also want to emphasize the boons that the platform spacings grant Ganon. For instance, I'd take Wario to Brinstar over BF any day. BF's platforms are long and cramped, meaning FH aerials aren't an option except in the center. Brinstar's platforms are at just such a height and width that they grant Ganon the space needed to control the air, while in close enough proximity to increase pressure.

And the frame extensions are gimmicky, but allow Ganon to cover a hell of a lot more ledge options, because they frankly probably don't want to risk eating an FSmash. I know what I'm talking about -from experience against good/top players-. Ganon <does> lose a few options, but those options are compensated for commensurately, if not in surplus against some characters such as Falco.

I personally need to become more comfortable with Brinstar. The main reason I rarely pick it is because it jives so hard against my playstyle.
 

A2ZOMG

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Theory aside, I'm talking from experience. Three generous platforms in an enclosed space means Ganon gets to have a field day with aerials he'd otherwise miss out of for the most part, even at BF (FAir, most notably). The lava increases his survivability and he has any even easier time landing kills due to short blastzones. I've gotten kills on Wario at Brinstar from a FAir at 60%.
I'm talking from experience too. And the platforms are much worse for Ganon and most other characters than most people are letting on. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know how to angle shield and jump out of shield. Although I will add Wario is in fact really overrated on Brinstar for this reason as well, since he frankly benefits less from Brinstar than most Wario mains seem to think. In the majority of situations, if you are getting hit on the platforms in a matchup that is not Metaknight, G&W, Mario, or Luigi, you're doing something wrong, because nobody else in the game has a real aerial platform pressure game that actually covers the basic escape options. Almost the entire cast has to rely on baits and the threat of grounded platform pressure to lock down someone on a platform, which is a VERY IMPORTANT fundamental option lost for everyone on Brinstar.

The lava only increases your survivability against gimps. Honestly when I play against a heavyweight that has low mobility, my goal isn't to gimp them, but to fundamentally rack damage on them extremely safely. Gimps against good players are fairly uncommon, even against most terrible recoveries. And given Ganon's low mobility, he isn't in a position to be avoiding the lava at will like many other characters. Yes GETTING HIT BY THE LAVA IS AN OPTION, but it does mean taking quite a bit of damage, and the small blastzone quite frankly is more detrimental to the survival of a heavyweight than it is for other characters mathematically. Killing someone at 60% with Ganon literally isn't big news, aside from the fact it's Ganon killing you. You know what's a big deal? Mario's B-throw becoming a viable kill move on Brinstar from something like 120-160 instead of like 150-200 on other stages. THAT is extremely huge.

It isn't an ideal stage for against all characters, but against a considerable deal, it is a boon that most Ganons (including myself) overlook. I also want to emphasize the boons that the platform spacings grant Ganon. For instance, I'd take Wario to Brinstar over BF any day. BF's platforms are long and cramped, meaning FH aerials aren't an option except in the center. Brinstar's platforms are at just such a height and width that they grant Ganon the space needed to control the air, while in close enough proximity to increase pressure.
You better be more specific. I am extremely specific when I say that Ganon only should consider CPing Brinstar against the ICs and Falco, who are characters who clearly are hurt more by the stage. A lot of characters do suck on Brinstar to be frank, and this does not exclude Ganon, who really doesn't have anything special to take advantage of the platform placement and also really dislikes the uneven terrain for more reasons than the fact it gets in the way of thunderstorming.

And the frame extensions are gimmicky, but allow Ganon to cover a hell of a lot more ledge options, because they frankly probably don't want to risk eating an FSmash. I know what I'm talking about -from experience against good/top players-. Ganon <does> lose a few options, but those options are compensated for commensurately, if not in surplus against some characters such as Falco.
Still loses to waiting. Edgetrapping on the pillars is honestly a really bad idea if you're trying to get a kill, because you're far more likely to stale something useful for kills rather than actually hit with it, especially if your opponent knows how easy it is to time a >100 ledge attack to counter that, which WILL beat your hitlag shenanigans. Also speaking of edgetrapping, it's generally easier for most characters to get around on this stage given the platform placement as well as the option of hitting the lava, both of which you failed to mention.

I personally need to become more comfortable with Brinstar. The main reason I rarely pick it is because it jives so hard against my playstyle.
I pick Brinstar all the time. And not simply for my main tournament characters G&W and Mario. I would argue that I have one of the most competent Falcos on Brinstar given that I actually practiced tons of characters specific shenanigans on Brinstar in general as well as developing an improvised playstyle to handle odd terrain, and I will still maintain that the stage is godawful for him due to how much the terrain and platform placement limits his basic spacing and platform pressure. These are problems that most of the cast, and Ganon especially included are not immune from.
 

DLA

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Brinstar may be one of Ganon's better stages if it wasn't for the lava. In case neither of you were aware, lava floods the ENTIRE STAGE several times per match. This is what makes the stage god-awful for Ganon because it completely shuts him down. He literally CANNOT approach his opponent without falling into the lava, and all he can do when his opponent approaches him is sit there and shield. And we all know how good Ganon's OoS game is.

Ganon should theoretically get punished EVERY time the lava comes up. Most of you know that I'm not a huge Super Theory Bros player, so I know this doesn't mean he will GET punished every time. But if your opponent is smart enough to apply pressure to you during the match's NUMEROUS lava phases, then it should usually result in Ganon taking massive damage or losing a stock.

THAT'S why the stage is horrible for Ganon... not the stage's layout or small blastzones, but the ******** lava hazard that will probably deal at least 1/4th of the damage you take the entire match.
 

A2ZOMG

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Honestly the only characters who explicitly like Brinstar's layout are Metaknight, G&W, Mario, and Luigi.

Everyone else hates the platform layout because they lack options to frametrap jump out of shield.
 

Vermanubis

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I'm talking from experience too. And the platforms are much worse for Ganon and most other characters than most people are letting on. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know how to angle shield and jump out of shield. Although I will add Wario is in fact really overrated on Brinstar for this reason as well, since he frankly benefits less from Brinstar than most Wario mains seem to think. In the majority of situations, if you are getting hit on the platforms in a matchup that is not Metaknight, G&W, Mario, or Luigi, you're doing something wrong, because nobody else in the game has a real aerial platform pressure game that actually covers the basic escape options. Almost the entire cast has to rely on baits and the threat of grounded platform pressure to lock down someone on a platform, which is a VERY IMPORTANT fundamental option lost for everyone on Brinstar.

The lava only increases your survivability against gimps. Honestly when I play against a heavyweight that has low mobility, my goal isn't to gimp them, but to fundamentally rack damage on them extremely safely. Gimps against good players are fairly uncommon, even against most terrible recoveries. And given Ganon's low mobility, he isn't in a position to be avoiding the lava at will like many other characters. Yes GETTING HIT BY THE LAVA IS AN OPTION, but it does mean taking quite a bit of damage, and the small blastzone quite frankly is more detrimental to the survival of a heavyweight than it is for other characters mathematically. Killing someone at 60% with Ganon literally isn't big news, aside from the fact it's Ganon killing you. You know what's a big deal? Mario's B-throw becoming a viable kill move on Brinstar from something like 120-160 instead of like 150-200 on other stages. THAT is extremely huge.

You better be more specific. I am extremely specific when I say that Ganon only should consider CPing Brinstar against the ICs and Falco, who are characters who clearly are hurt more by the stage. A lot of characters do suck on Brinstar to be frank, and this does not exclude Ganon, who really doesn't have anything special to take advantage of the platform placement and also really dislikes the uneven terrain for more reasons than the fact it gets in the way of thunderstorming.

Still loses to waiting. Edgetrapping on the pillars is honestly a really bad idea if you're trying to get a kill, because you're far more likely to stale something useful for kills rather than actually hit with it, especially if your opponent knows how easy it is to time a >100 ledge attack to counter that, which WILL beat your hitlag shenanigans. Also speaking of edgetrapping, it's generally easier for most characters to get around on this stage given the platform placement as well as the option of hitting the lava, both of which you failed to mention.

I pick Brinstar all the time. And not simply for my main tournament characters G&W and Mario. I would argue that I have one of the most competent Falcos on Brinstar given that I actually practiced tons of characters specific shenanigans on Brinstar in general as well as developing an improvised playstyle to handle odd terrain, and I will still maintain that the stage is godawful for him due to how much the terrain and platform placement limits his basic spacing and platform pressure. These are problems that most of the cast, and Ganon especially included are not immune from.
If you don't have any kind of results as Ganon, then one can't presume they're using him properly to lend credence to experiential claims.
 
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