Ganondorf

[Diddy Kong]

Am gonna be content with Ganondorf's cloney moveset as long as his Neutral and Down Specials are changed.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

It is definitely his same old U air, he also does his N air in the video but that footage has it cut out for some reason.

Are you sure? I'm almost certain the animation is different than his old Up air. This animation looks like he starts with the foot behind him and than the foot swings to where he is facing. The "old" Up air starts the animation where he is facing and moves towards the back. Am I incorrect? Compare to 0:19 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypbdtq-1Xc0

Also that's the only footage I saw and so I didn't see the Nair...

 

[Hydde]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiBtjpoqsB0 (<leaked footage)

At 1:33 when Ganondorf revives he does a move that I don't recognize. I thought it was his Nair at the beginning but after close inspection it looks like a completely new animation of perhaps for his Up air? what do you guys think.

seems to be his neutral air.. but he was able just to do the first kick...after that ehe touches the floor and the second kick never happens.

Thast whjat i see

edit: on closer inspection, it seems is just one kick...because after he does the kick.. it seems he is preparing to land... instead of trying to get a second kick. Its a new single kick movement?. If thats the case.. it is a very quick kick

 

[RCyclone]

Are you sure? I'm almost certain the animation is different than his old Up air. This animation looks like he starts with the foot behind him and than the foot swings to where he is facing. The "old" Up air starts the animation where he is facing and moves towards the back. Am I incorrect? Compare to 0:19 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ypbdtq-1Xc0

Also that's the only footage I saw and so I didn't see the Nair...

You are right, I was mistaken, when he was dropping from the spawn platform he his cape masked the animation and it looked like it was close to a U air and the super blurry video didn't help.

On Extremely closer inspection it is his Nair and it either hits once now or it auto-cancels which is nice either way.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

You are right, I was mistaken, when he was dropping from the spawn platform he his cape masked the animation and it looked like it was close to a U air and the super blurry video didn't help.

On Extremely closer inspection it is his Nair and it either hits once now or it auto-cancels which is nice either way.

Yeah it is very hard to see. But it seems like a really quick move. lets hope its good be it Up air, Nair or what ever lol

 

[RCyclone]

Yeah it is very hard to see. But it seems like a really quick move. lets hope its good be it Up air, Nair or what ever lol

Agreed, we'll know around September 13th soon enough!

 

[Ffamran]

Am gonna be content with Ganondorf's cloney moveset as long as his Neutral and Down Specials are changed.

Really late, but you know what would be cool? Ganondorf's Down Special is a stance change. Shulk's combat revolves around stance changes, but Ganondorf could have something less, but similar to Shulk's. By using Down Special, Ganondorf switches between fighting with a sword - Twilight Princess style - and fighting with magic - Falcondorf style.

Sword mode changes ideas:
- Ground neutral becomes a three-hit combo. Two vertical slashes followed by a horizontal swipe. Total damage is weaker than Ganondorf's Lightning Jab, but gains a helluva range.
- Up Smash becomes a sword uppercut that covers Ganondorf's front and part of his back. Gains coverage, but has lower damage than Ganondorf's Skyward Kick.
- Side Smash becomes two overhead slams similar to (Toon) Link's double slashes - two inputs. More range, less knockback since it slams people down, and slightly slower with one slam, but slower total compared to Ganondorf's Evil Elbow.
- Down Smash becomes a sword plant of evil - a shock-wave forms when Ganondorf's sword hits the ground. More powerful and slower than Ganondorf's sweep. Basically Ike's Eruption, but evil.
- Nair becomes a horizontal slash that covers Ganondorf's front and back. Basically a coverage attack compared to Ganondorf's double kick.
- Fair becomes a quick roundhouse followed by an overhead slam. Lower power overall, can combo, and more range.
- Bair becomes a quick back swing that turns Ganondorf around. Basically Marth's Bair. More range than Ganondorf's backhand, but less knockback and faster.
- Uair becomes forward sword roll - Ganondorf does an overhead slash and rolls with it. Similar to the flip kick, but less range, more coverage, and faster.
- Dair becomes a stab that can spike with it's tip. Sort of like Link's current Dair, but really short and hard to aim - I'm not good with balancing. Less range and less execution time than Ganondorf's stretch stomp.
- Up Special gains vertical range, but loses its grab effect. It becomes a sword uppercut common in hack n' slash games. Similar to Wolf's Illusion and Marth's Dolphin Slash. By that I mean it phases through people, but works similarly to a sword uppercut like Marth's Dolphin Slash and Shulk's Air Slash? and Devil May Cry's Dante's High Time.
- Side Special becomes Ganondorf's dash slash in Twilight Princess. Loses range, is much faster, can be combo-ed, and Ganondorf won't enter helpless mode if he's in the air.

Neutral Special?
Dead Man's Volley. Sword Mode's version comes out faster - Ganondorf just swipes out his left hand - while Falcondorf throws a mean knuckleball that's slower, larger, and more powerful. Also, his swing can hit like Wolf's bayonet.

Ideas, ideas, ideas... So many ideas that will probably never become true so, therefore, they are dreams.

 

[young grasshopper]

Really late, but you know what would be cool? Ganondorf's Down Special is a stance change. Shulk's combat revolves around stance changes, but Ganondorf could have something less, but similar to Shulk's. By using Down Special, Ganondorf switches between fighting with a sword - Twilight Princess style - and fighting with magic - Falcondorf style.

Sword mode changes ideas:
- Ground neutral becomes a three-hit combo. Two vertical slashes followed by a horizontal swipe. Total damage is weaker than Ganondorf's Lightning Jab, but gains a helluva range.
- Up Smash becomes a sword uppercut that covers Ganondorf's front and part of his back. Gains coverage, but has lower damage than Ganondorf's Skyward Kick.
- Side Smash becomes two overhead slams similar to (Toon) Link's double slashes - two inputs. More range, less knockback since it slams people down, and slightly slower with one slam, but slower total compared to Ganondorf's Evil Elbow.
- Down Smash becomes a sword plant of evil - a shock-wave forms when Ganondorf's sword hits the ground. More powerful and slower than Ganondorf's sweep. Basically Ike's Eruption, but evil.
- Nair becomes a horizontal slash that covers Ganondorf's front and back. Basically a coverage attack compared to Ganondorf's double kick.
- Fair becomes a quick roundhouse followed by an overhead slam. Lower power overall, can combo, and more range.
- Bair becomes a quick back swing that turns Ganondorf around. Basically Marth's Bair. More range than Ganondorf's backhand, but less knockback and faster.
- Uair becomes forward sword roll - Ganondorf does an overhead slash and rolls with it. Similar to the flip kick, but less range, more coverage, and faster.
- Dair becomes a stab that can spike with it's tip. Sort of like Link's current Dair, but really short and hard to aim - I'm not good with balancing. Less range and less execution time than Ganondorf's stretch stomp.
- Up Special gains vertical range, but loses its grab effect. It becomes a sword uppercut common in hack n' slash games. Similar to Wolf's Illusion and Marth's Dolphin Slash. By that I mean it phases through people, but works similarly to a sword uppercut like Marth's Dolphin Slash and Shulk's Air Slash? and Devil May Cry's Dante's High Time.
- Side Special becomes Ganondorf's dash slash in Twilight Princess. Loses range, is much faster, can be combo-ed, and Ganondorf won't enter helpless mode if he's in the air.

Neutral Special?
Dead Man's Volley. Sword Mode's version comes out faster - Ganondorf just swipes out his left hand - while Falcondorf throws a mean knuckleball that's slower, larger, and more powerful. Also, his swing can hit like Wolf's bayonet.

Ideas, ideas, ideas... So many ideas that will probably never become true so, therefore, they are dreams.

that would be great! except Sakurai said that smash4 wouldn't have any transformations that give different movesets, only different traits.

 

[Ffamran]

that would be great! except Sakurai said that smash4 wouldn't have any transformations that give different movesets, only different traits.

Yeah, even though it would be a move set change, I remember the load times whenever Zelda, Sheik, Samus, and I think Pokémon Trainer switching in Brawl and it was really noticeable. In Melee, switching from Zelda to Sheik was like a snap. Considering games are becoming more demanding, having a character with access to multiple move sets might cause too much lag to warrant its use. Shulk's different in that his stance changes are just buffs and debuffs rather than a huge overhaul.

 

[Pazzo.]

Hey, we never saw all of Ganondorf's moveset... right?

 

[Hydde]

yeah, we never saw all moves

 

[Ffamran]

yeah, we never saw all moves

Your avatar makes that even funnier.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Hey, we never saw all of Ganondorf's moveset... right?

Nope, and he seems to have some sweet purple effects on his attacks too.

 

[Sykkamorre]

Slightly alter the brawl 'doff and imma be happy.

We got toon link, Y NO TOON GANON? I kind of want a twin sword wielding, thunderball firing badass heavy character ;_;

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Slightly alter the brawl 'doff and imma be happy.

We got toon link, Y NO TOON GANON? I kind of want a twin sword wielding, thunderball firing badass heavy character ;_;

*laughs*

He doesn't believe in such things being playable.

 

[Sykkamorre]

He doesn't believe in such things being playable.

A man can dream... even if I know full well that those dreams will never come to fruition.

 

[LOL DUDE]

Well, from the looks of the ESRB leak (which is pretty much confirmed by Shulk's render/moveset and Nintendo taking down all of the videos of it on YouTube), he's still a clone of Captain Falcon. Such a shame after seeing such great fan-made moveset revamps like Ashingda's Triforce Ganondorf (well, maybe without being able to switch movesets like that, but, hey).

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

We should move on and accept that Falcondorf is here to stay.

Do I like it? Hell no. But it's clear at this point, 3 games later, that Sakurai just doesn't see it. Let's accept that.

Quoting as a reminder:

I want Falcondorf's up-tilt changed. Have you guys seen Project M's? That one's so brutal and satisfying to hit with.

Also Falcondorf still has a chance to be more Ganondorf-like via custom specials a la Palutena.

If Sakurai doesn't go along with it, then Sakurai officially doesn't think having a canonical Ganondorf matters, AND WE SHOULD MOVE ON FROM THAT. It's been 3 games in a row, and If Sakurai still doesn't care then he never will. We should accept that and move on.

Yes, it's unfair that he got the short end of the stick. I still resent that he ever included Ganondorf in Melee to begin with--I suspect that if he left him out of that, then he'd be an awesome, true-to-source-material Ganondorf in Brawl.

But it was not meant to be.

We have no choice but to stop crying about it, since our words are just gonna fall on deaf ears anyway.

 

[Diddy Kong]

All I'm hoping for now is a new Neutral B and a new Down B.

 

[young grasshopper]

I might not like to except it, but given Ganondorf's tendency to change throughout his many appearances, perhaps shashdorf is now just another one of his appearances. I buff him at least a little

 

[Z1GMA]

As long as he has that Jab as his fastest attack, he's never gonna be "good". If he gets a better Grab Range, at least that would be something, but still - that Jab :/

Thing is, I don't think Sakurai would consider giving him a better/new or faster jab, because, well, Flame Choke...

About his current moveset, We don't know hold old the footage is, right? (or do we?)
Anyway, I still have faith in moveset-changes regarding him.
Like some have said, nB & dB, but I'd also like to add Jab and Nair.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I might not like to except it, but given Ganondorf's tendency to change throughout his many appearances, perhaps shashdorf is now just another one of his appearances. I buff him at least a little

He needs to be buffed a lot! Especially from Brawl.

-If his smash moves have more range/coverage (which seem to be the case perhaps from the darkness effect on his down smash and up smash. I'm hoping they scrap Warlock punch but use that animation for his fsmash).
-Has an appropriate grab range (at least the length of his arm).
-has a small buff in speed.
-has a big buff to KO power (he should be the strongest character in the game imo, that way you have to fear playing against a Ganondorf short range and slow attacks but if you get hit you know you'll most likely be KO'ed sub a 100%)
- has a new neutral and down specials (or at least canon moves for custom specials).
-new (and useful) up-tilt.
-new animations and added darkness and/or electrical effects on all his moves to further distinguish him from C. Falcon.
-some new grab animations that depict him more as a warlock would be cool (maybe some grabs can KO early too, that way you have to fear getting grabbed by Ganon).

If these things happen ill still be sad we didn't get Canondorf. But at least I'll be able to kick *** with our Manondorf

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

He's one character I am really hoping they show custom moves for. I would be a shame if he and C. Falcon had the same custom specials.

 

[Sykkamorre]

I just hope the flamechoke has less start up. Hell, I want it to be a god damn OoS option.
Just imagine how horribly delicious all the techchases would be!

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

As long as he has that Jab as his fastest attack, he's never gonna be "good". If he gets a better Grab Range, at least that would be something, but still - that Jab :/

Thing is, I don't think Sakurai would consider giving him a better/new or faster jab, because, well, Flame Choke...

About his current moveset, We don't know hold old the footage is, right? (or do we?)
Anyway, I still have faith in moveset-changes regarding him.
Like some have said, nB & dB, but I'd also like to add Jab and Nair.

Actually, I think that Jab should remain. It's not so bad and it has it's uses, though it was better in Melee. In that game that move had virtually no starting and ending lag and it was decently powerful making it very safe to use it. In Brawl though they decided to give it some ending lag, making it relatively unsafe, even though it's range was extended.
Reduce that ending lag and we are dandy.


In my opinion, Ganon doesn't need a major makeover ala Bowser, he can be fixed by just buffing him up. I don't mind if he is still a semi clone of his son, Douglas Jay Falcon, just make him viable. He was actually good in Melee and in Brawl they gave him some unique moves, the rest is history though. Give him is Melee viability and apply the initiative from Brawl, that would be nice.

 

[Hydde]

Amen boruda

 

[Klohj]

I don't even care if he is still rubbish, as long he isn't a Captain Falcon clone anymore.

 

[Sykkamorre]

I don't even care if he is still rubbish, as long he isn't a Captain Falcon clone anymore.

Well, savage for you most likely. :/

 

[WinterShorts]

Increase his running speed, make his recovery better, either bring back L-canceling or reduce his landing lag on aerials, and for crying out loud please increase his grab range and knockback/grab box for Dark Dive; his OoS options in Brawl are non-existent.

Reduce HIS landing lag? Good god reduce ALL THE LANDING LAGS!

 

[SmasherP83]

I don't even care if he is still rubbish, as long he isn't a Captain Falcon clone anymore.

Well I got bad news for you buddy.

 

[Z1GMA]

Actually, I think that Jab should remain. It's not so bad and it has it's uses, though it was better in Melee. In that game that move had virtually no starting and ending lag and it was decently powerful making it very safe to use it. In Brawl though they decided to give it some ending lag, making it relatively unsafe, even though it's range was extended.
Reduce that ending lag and we are dandy.


In my opinion, Ganon doesn't need a major makeover ala Bowser, he can be fixed by just buffing him up. I don't mind if he is still a semi clone of his son, Douglas Jay Falcon, just make him viable. He was actually good in Melee and in Brawl they gave him some unique moves, the rest is history though. Give him is Melee viability and apply the initiative from Brawl, that would be nice.

Bro, problem is it's looking more like its Brawl Counterpart atm. And in Brawl it is frame 8 which means most characters have faster tilts than his Jab, which is his fastest attack. It's a bloody mess.
I've played Brawl Ganon for years - I know how bad his Jab is.

 

[Ultinarok]

Overall, Falcondorf is disappointing, but its not all bad. His moves are faster, he seems to jump higher, move quicker, have less lag, and now has his darkness effects on more attacks. Nice changes. We also haven't seen his whole move set yet. No side smash, no neutral/side/down specials, only one aerial (nair) for a brief moment etc.

In all honesty, some of his unseen, overly Falcon-esque moves like Uair, bair, down special and up-tilt (different, but Ganondorf ain't THAT flexible) may be changed. I wouldn't mind seeing a projectile neutral b, a Warlock Punch side smash (sped up and powered down of course), an AoE darkness attack as a down b, or some more brutal aerials. There's always a chance.

 

[Madash]

Falcondorf does capture the whole power of triforce of ganondorf. But countering his power by giving him no speed, no tacticalness, no projectile, no recovery, no camping, no anti camping sort of ruins it.
But changing up his specials a bit can change him drastically.
The changes I see could happen to change these are
-First off give him his huge energy ball have it super powerful (Ko at 100% fully charged) but slow and straightforward. Traveling forward slowly for a good distance in a straight line. and unable to be saved by shielding, with ending lag. sticking to the ganondorf character. (this fixes projectile&camping)
-Second off, usually accompanied by this energy ball move is a reflective cape move for the game of tennis between Link and himself. If this became his fastest move like frame 2 activation but not only reflected projectiles but on the activation frames caused the characters close enough to get paralyzed like with Zamus. If that happened it'd be too good a move so no knockback but lasts a second, So it's punishable. (this fixes tacticalness, speed, & anti camping)
-Last of all Darkdive to be directional but shorter distance and a recovery move giving him much more choices for combos and recovery.. and FlameChoke to not send him into helpless state but have ending lag (fixes tacticalness, recovery)

That's what if did happen or something similar it'd revamp his character so it's dangerous to be near him or far plus more. And it doesn't seem too unlikely to me. That's what I'd like to see most

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

As long as Ganondorf still has his Curb Stomp, and looks just as awesome if not more awesome than he did in Brawl, then I don't care if keeps the same moves.

#RollindorfCurbStomp

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I don't even care if he is still rubbish, as long he isn't a Captain Falcon clone anymore.

The overall battle performance of Ganon should be a higher priority.

 

[RidleyDX]

We have yet to see his down B & neutral B. I know everyone is universally in a agreement that is neutral b should be dead man's volley. One thing I wanted to add is that, fully charged it can't be reflected similar to his ocarina incarnation. But what do you think his down B should be changed to?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I would actually like Warlock Punch to stay, it's actually a reference to the time in OoT where Ganondorf punches the ground beneath you.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I would actually like Warlock Punch to stay, it's actually a reference to the time in OoT where Ganondorf punches the ground beneath you.

In that case, what if Ganondorf's Neutral B instead worked like that very punch? You could charge it up to cause an earthquake on the ground, and in the air it was a divekick, or something.

 

[Steelia]

I would actually like Warlock Punch to stay, it's actually a reference to the time in OoT where Ganondorf punches the ground beneath you.

Really? I'd always assumed it was a reference to that waves of darkness thing that prevented Navi from helping you. He even yells "haaaaaaa!" when performing it in OoT.

 

[Ffamran]

In that case, what if Ganondorf's Neutral B instead work like that very punch? You could charge it up to cause an earthquake on the ground, and in the air it was a divekick?

Or have it where Warlock Punch or whatever it can be called becomes Ganondorf's Down Special. In the air, it functions as a stall then drop attack, while on the ground, it's a chargeable floor punch. An uncharged punch would have a smaller shockwave than an air one, but a fully charged one has a larger shockwave. Also, the punch and shockwave are separate hits.

Neutral Special could work like Wolf's Blaster, where Ganondorf sends out an energy ball through a wicked punch. It'd work as a fast backhand, but can be charged and loaded like Lucario's, DK's, and Samus's Neutral Specials.