Game Play and Technical Analysis

[ImaClubYou]

And fox was using that side b religiously ....

Exactly. And besides actually showing the move set, the only thing I see from that super pro Mega Man was "Jab" and Down tilt.

Anyway, I've been thinking.. What if wall teching is gone? Coupled with that, if things like shine infinites or infinite anything due to walls are gone we can open the competitive scenes welcoming arms to stages with walls back in the N64 days.

Ahhhh... Hello r@pe tents!

 

[RelaxAlax]

Exactly. And besides actually showing the move set, the only thing I see from that super pro Mega Man was "Jab" and Down tilt.

Anyway, I've been thinking.. What if wall teching is gone? Coupled with that, if things like shine infinites or infinite anything due to walls are gone we can open the competitive scenes welcoming arms to stages with walls back in the N64 days.

Ahhhh... Hello r@pe tents!

I know what you mean. It's pretty funny haha. And well we know teching is back, so I'm not sure they've taken wall teching that out, but who knows.

We only saw Dededes back throw in the direct so we don't know if his down throw chaingrab is back at all. But i swear that was discovered before the game was even released to North America. Hopefully grab releases got kicked to the curb too (moreso Falcos and Marths).

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Not sure if this was brought up but jab resets from melee seem to be back as when mario is hitting link with the fire bar item he hits him during his flopping state and he automatically gets up on his own in a very similar way to jab resets. Also sonic's aerials have for the most part been reanimated and his spring continues to fall even after it hits someone as he hits marth with the spring after the dair but it keeps falling.

 

[[TSON]]

Jab resets were in Brawl too tho. You don't remember this dumb stuff?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1vskSU1Eq0

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Jab resets were in Brawl too tho. You don't remember this dumb stuff?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1vskSU1Eq0

He was saying they were similar to Melee as you couldn't repeatedly hit someone with one causing a jab/laser lock.

 

[relaxedexcorcist]

I wonder if some of these are related to custom movesets.

Possibly. Can't really tell with the amount of info we've been given about that feature though.

 

[Jalio_the_Brave]

It seems to me like people are really considering the trail of smoke as an indicator of hitstun theory as a possible legitimate mechanic. I wish we could investigate further

 

[shininimuss]

Anybody notice they took out 'random' moves like DDD's Dees and Olimar's random Pikmin?

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADzUgNqp8GCEw
does this count? the hit box could change depending on the number of turnips.

 

[ImaClubYou]

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADzUgNqp8GCEw
does this count? the hit box could change depending on the number of turnips.

Hope this is true. After reading this I noticed that Sakurai never used Villager's Uair or Dair whenever he was in the direct. Maybe he changed it.

 

[DaDavid]

Hope this is true. After reading this I noticed that Sakurai never used Villager's Uair or Dair whenever he was in the direct. Maybe he changed it.

Doubt it, there's a lot of moves he didn't use so I can't imagine that gives us any idea.

Dedede and Olimar had randomness taken out of something that could be considered essential to their play-style though, Villager's Up air and Dair probably don't fall into that category. But who knows.

 

[LancerStaff]

What if Villager's turnips aren't really random?

 

[RelaxAlax]

Welp, here's my long ass analysis on the Direct!

Do you guys think I should make a thread so everyone can see it?

 

[NewGuy79]

I don't know if anybodies mentioned this before but I acutely think that all these examples of "wave landing" may actually just represent a huge reduction in landing lag, that is to say that you might be able to immediately begin dashing upon touching the ground.

Here's a good example that somebody found: http://makeagif.com/i/dTjGlh

you can see Toon link immediately goo into a running dash upon touching the ground, if things stay like this we might not need wave landing at all (maybe)

 

[Jalio_the_Brave]

Welp, here's my long *** analysis on the Direct!

Do you guys think I should make a thread so everyone can see it?

Great video! Went in depth with things I and many other people who follow smash competitively wanted to see. Maybe maks a new thread for it to get more exposure?

 

[Renji64]

Welp, here's my long *** analysis on the Direct!

Do you guys think I should make a thread so everyone can see it?

Watching this video lol@the villager moonwalk but so far good video this is the type of breakdowns i like this gives me hope.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Watching this video lol@the villager moonwalk but so far good video this is the type of breakdowns i like this gives me hope.

Yeah, I have a feeling this game is going to be way more competitive than brawl. No swimiming or gliding (potentially), very quick movement, fast rolls ... it's shaping up to be good!

 

[mimgrim]

Welp, here's my long *** analysis on the Direct!

Do you guys think I should make a thread so everyone can see it?

Almost everything was good.

Except for the Olimar part. New jab and new recovery. Yea fine w/e. His limit to 3 Pikmin sucks though, I'd rather have 6 Pikmin then a new jab and new recovery.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Almost everything was good.

Except for the Olimar part. New jab and new recovery. Yea fine w/e. His limit to 3 Pikmin sucks though, I'd rather have 6 Pikmin then a new jab and new recovery.

I think that was either because Brawl had alot of Pikmin spam or that the 3DS can't track that many Pikmin on screen. But it think it's the former. Besides they had to balance him somehow after they gave him a good recovery. Hopefully Pikmin don't die as quick.

 

[mimgrim]

I think that was either because Brawl had alot of Pikmin spam or that the 3DS can't track that many Pikmin on screen. But it think it's the former. Besides they had to balance him somehow after they gave him a good recovery. Hopefully Pikmin don't die as quick.

His recovery still looks pretty bad to me. In all honesty. Seems rather predictable and requires throwing way the, now precious, Pikmin.

 

[greenluigiman2]

Welp, here's my long *** analysis on the Direct!

Do you guys think I should make a thread so everyone can see it?

Bowser looks so awesome in this game.

His recovery still looks pretty bad to me. In all honesty. Seems rather predictable and requires throwing way the, now precious, Pikmin.

It doesn't require you to throw them away. There are many scenarios I can think of where keeping the Pikmin wouldn't be that detrimental to recovery.

Yeah, I have a feeling this game is going to be way more competitive than brawl. No swimiming or gliding (potentially), very quick movement, fast rolls ... it's shaping up to be good!

It could also potentially be more balanced than both Melee and Brawl.

 

[Rikana]

...Ledge cancelling is in Brawl too. It's just a natural thing that happens with aerials on the tips of ledges and platforms.

No it wasn't. Unless the definition of ledge canceling is different in Brawl, but I'm 100% sure that ledge canceling isn't in Brawl. You cannot cancel your aerial animations upon landing on a ledge in Brawl.

There's more of a turn than you'd see in Melee. Still, it's a good sign that there's some improved ground mobility there. Movement looks a lot less awkward now, which is a factor that all but killed Brawl for me.

I don't know if I'd consider it a dash dance either.. It looks more like the player was running one way then switched direction long after initial dash which resulted in the turnaround animation. The only way they can kill dash dancing now is by adding the same turnaround animation to initial dash if we tap the opposite direction.

I'd be okay if smash4 had a universal pivot dash length. Having melee'esque dash dancing return will be a great step towards mobility gameplay.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

So I'm going through the smash direct frame by frame and noticed Megaman doing a Waveland on Jungle Japes

He's clearly facing to the right before landing and during the dash of the waveland to the left, he turns around.

Uploaded the snippet of the video for you to see:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47208810/waveland.mp4

He actually did this again on Battlefield during the direct when he explained some of the 3DS stuff.

 

[slimjim]

I MIGHT have found a potential L-cancel in Alax's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_5D8mmjX98
Around 14:02 he'll show the clip and then slow it down. At the risk of being hopeful, that Villager bair looks like an L-cancel. It looks like the landing lag animation plays out way faster than the aerial landing lag animations we've seen before. As in, the animation is way faster than the rest of the gameplay, which is how melee handled displaying L-canceled animations (picture link's L-C'd dair in melee where he just stands up very quickly as the animation plays out at 2x speed....this looks exactly the same as melee L-canceling in that respect). Now we haven't seen the landing lag for this move before, so it might just be incredibly fast...but even that is a good sign.

EDIT: Forgot to add that I hope it isn't just an auto-cancel as per brawl.

 

[DaDavid]

Welp, here's my long *** analysis on the Direct!

Do you guys think I should make a thread so everyone can see it?

Very good job on this. It would be nice if more people saw this, so I don't know. Whatever it takes?

 

[Superyoshiom]

I don't know if we knew anything about footstooling yet or not, but this was on Charizard's character page:

It's now blatantly obvious that footstooling is back. Personally, I never minded it, but I see why some people hated it.

No, clearly Yoshi has a new riding mechanic which allows anyone to ride on his back and jump off when they fall off a cliff, just like in Super Mario World

 

[[TSON]]

I MIGHT have found a potential L-cancel in Alax's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_5D8mmjX98
Around 14:02 he'll show the clip and then slow it down. At the risk of being hopeful, that Villager bair looks like an L-cancel. It looks like the landing lag animation plays out way faster than the aerial landing lag animations we've seen before. As in, the animation is way faster than the rest of the gameplay, which is how melee handled displaying L-canceled animations (picture link's L-C'd dair in melee where he just stands up very quickly as the animation plays out at 2x speed....this looks exactly the same as melee L-canceling in that respect). Now we haven't seen the landing lag for this move before, so it might just be incredibly fast...but even that is a good sign.

EDIT: Forgot to add that I hope it isn't just an auto-cancel as per brawl.

It's just fast landlag. All of the landing animations are around that speed.

 

[slimjim]

That's what I thought TSON, but then I looked at what Villager's normal landing animation looks like and it looks different from that. In the direct, when they are first showing the Tortimer's Island stage, they show the villager land after a full hop air dodge, and he lands standing straight up. However, after the bair in the video I posted above, he lands and his head ducks down before he stands straight up.

Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUWnQu2Grs#t=403 Watch at 4:24 in .25x speed.

EDIT: In addition:
Watch WFT at 4:25-4:26 in .25x speed...she starts a dash animation DURING her dash animation, implying we have functional dash-dancing back. Potentially. What ruined brawl's DDing was that you could only start a dash in another direction before the dash animation started. Here we can see her starting another dash during the actual dash animation, but before achieving full run-speed. That is EXACTLY how melee DDing worked to my knowledge.

 

[[TSON]]

That's what I thought TSON, but then I looked at what Villager's normal landing animation looks like and it looks different from that. In the direct, when they are first showing the Tortimer's Island stage, they show the villager land after a full hop air dodge, and he lands standing straight up. However, after the bair in the video I posted above, he lands and his head ducks down before he stands straight up.

Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUWnQu2Grs#t=403 Watch at 4:24 in .25x speed.

All aerials have specialized landing animations, that's why. When you land, for example, with Link's dair, his sword is stuck in the ground and he has to pull it out. That's why that move is so slow landing-lag-wise.

EDIT: In addition:
Watch WFT at 4:25-4:26 in .25x speed...she starts a dash animation DURING her dash animation, implying we have functional dash-dancing back. Potentially. What ruined brawl's DDing was that you could only start a dash in another direction before the dash animation started. Here we can see her starting another dash during the actual dash animation, but before achieving full run-speed. That is EXACTLY how melee DDing worked to my knowledge.

Yeah, we see foxtrotting and dashdancing a lot in the trailer. I can't dispute that that's gonna be returning. It definitely is.

 

[BigHairyFart]

What is foxtrotting? I've never heard this term before, is it like a moonwalk?

 

[Empyrean]

What is foxtrotting? I've never heard this term before, is it like a moonwalk?

It's repeating the initial dash animation as soon as it's over. Some characters move around faster this way instead of just running, such as Fox (duh) and Marth.

 

[Rikana]

It's when you dash into another dash.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

I first noticed this when ZSS kicked a Gordo back at D3. I thought it was a unique property of Gordo's in this game but then when watching the footage again I saw Pits new side B pushing Samus' missile away. I'll have to find the place as evidence but I'm kind of busy right now. I just wanted to tell you guys it appears you will be able to hit projectiles away.

Edit: 22:15 http://youtu.be/7xUWnQu2Grs

 

[Xermo]

it was apparent projectiles can be dealt with in new ways when sakurai showed pit slicing samus' missile in half.

 

[DaDavid]

Nice catch on the Foxtrotting. I hate to get excited since all kinds of things could change, but if they started with Brawl's engine and yet things like this are noticeable at this point, I'd say it's safe to say they'll remain.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

I found it at 22:15. http://youtu.be/7xUWnQu2Grs

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Noticed this too.

 

[ImaClubYou]

Yes, I was thinking this myself, it seems like attacks, or certain attacks can actually reflect projectiles back towards opponents and hurting them. What does this say for the likes of BOWSER, DK, GANONDORF, AND OTHER SLOW NON/PSEUDO PROJECTILE TYPES?

I'm heppy if this is true :]

 

[Jellyfish4102]

Yes, I was thinking this myself, it seems like attacks, or certain attacks can actually reflect projectiles back towards opponents and hurting them. What does this say for the likes of BOWSER, DK, GANONDORF, AND OTHER SLOW NON/PSEUDO PROJECTILE TYPES?

I'm heppy if this is true :]

It could help the projectile-less a lot but I'm worried it will hurt projectile based characters.

 

[Shaya]

Take item projectiles such as Grenades, Bananas, Armor Pieces or Turnips. Game play that involves throwing them back or using them against them still extremely and undeniably heavily favours the projectile maker but allows more counterplay and intense moments between the two. Action sequences that involve two players using the same projectile against each other are game-making experiences

 

[ChikoLad]

Huh, I forgot about this.

I think this makes me even less worried about For Glory mode being FD only. Can't wait to see how these kinds of new mechanics and characters will play out.