Fthrow/Dthrow Chaingrab Thread

[J4pu]

The only CG on the list that affects Pikachu is the one on himself.

Omg we should come of with a 0-death on ourselves and make pika dittos up there on most ******** dittos ever.

Falco beat you to it like back in June

 

[Zylar]

I didn't think snakes would go so far as to hurt themselves vs falcos.
If they start doing it when verses us pikas, it's an advantage since that match up is mostly up to player skill.
Free damage is always a plus, regardless if we don't get the cgs.

 

[gallax]

idk. DDD dittos are gay too. all you do is CG the other the whole time. forget spacing with ftilt. just throw waddles and cg.

 

[Ussi]

Err, I'm getting a no go on Pikachu. I keep footstooling out.

 

[Sudai]

I know the reason Snake and Link players blow themselves up against Falco is because Falco's CG results in death if it's done near the ledge. Pika's isn't quite as scary but I could still see some Snakes blowing themselves up, especially if it's as easy to get a grab in as you guys make it out to be.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

its easy if you are smart with your sheild, timing, and prediction. the only annoying part would be the multitude of grenades they will leave lying around.

 

[J4pu]

I know the reason Snake and Link players blow themselves up against Falco is because Falco's CG results in death if it's done near the ledge. Pika's isn't quite as scary but I could still see some Snakes blowing themselves up, especially if it's as easy to get a grab in as you guys make it out to be.

Link yes, snake, not necessarily, if Falco CG's snake to the edge then Dair's snake can DJ away > cypher away > C4 jump > cypher over the top which ends at something like 80% damage on snake, which is less than your CG damage.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Tested Charizard and Ganon. Charizard gets to 72% + regrab with just D-throws and ganon i think gets to...85% or somewhere.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

For wolf i got D-throw x3 > Fthrow x1 > D-throw x14 + regrab = 112%

 

[Zylar]

For the wolf CG, does the percentage include pummeling?
If not, awesome. :D
Oh, or does pummeling mess it up?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Actually....the best way to CG wolf is

F-throw x3 > Pummel x1 >D-throw x 14 + regrab = 115%

Depending on the amount of room you have left on the level you can switch it between this one and the one 2 posts above.

 

[Scissors Sir]

these are starting to look more and more like homerun contest strats instead of chaingrabs lol

 

[Ussi]

You honestly believe it's that bad? The chain grab should only affect your first stock and possibly the third stock.

Scenario:
CG > death first stock.

Second stock: Dthrow isn't fresh so Fthrow > Dthrow CG won't work. In order to get a fresh Dthrow they have to hit you and thus in all likelihood bring you above 20%. Maybe they can meet you half way or something and get you to like 40% and start Dthrow CG with a partially stale Dthrow, but that to me seems very unlikely and requires some stupid crazy calculations on the fly. Get to above 20% before you kill Pika and you're safe for Pika's second stock.

The most realistic way that I see of getting the CG off twice in one match is CG first stock, kill second stock without using Dthrow, CG 3rd stock.

Maybe all of this will be moot after more testing is done, but as of right now I can't say that the match-up is that bad as to say 70-30.

But lets see... at 104%, 4 grab pummels > bthrow (just to avoid using dthrow) and then 1 hit to kill. thats a total of 6 hits. Falco gets grabbed at 0, fthrow x 2 > pummel, and what do you know, dthrow is no longer stale. lol.

This is assuming that Pikachu kills you RIGHT AFTER bthrowing you. If you plan to live, Pikachu might unstale dthrow before you even die.

You guys think we should try to unstale dthrow instead of finishing off Falco/Fox/Wolf with a dthrow > usmash/tilt > thunder?

 

[GreenAce]

I never thought the day would come that people will john more about pikachu then mk.

 

[supermario27mx]

dayuum this thread is hot! last time I swung by there were 16 pages. anyways the charcters I tested this on have already been tested I should really stop by the therad and the pika boards in general more often.

I never thought the day would come that people will john more about pikachu then mk.

Sig'd

 

[J4pu]

You guys think we should try to unstale dthrow instead of finishing off Falco/Fox/Wolf with a dthrow > usmash/tilt > thunder?

depends, how unstale does dthrow have to be? if you end with utilt > thunder, that's 2 slots on the 9 slot list

grab, fthrow, pummel, fthrow, pummel, fthrow, pummel > dthrow

that means dthrow would be at the 9th slot on the list which is pretty **** unstale.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You guys think we should try to unstale dthrow instead of finishing off Falco/Fox/Wolf with a dthrow > usmash/tilt > thunder?

No, it is more worth it to get that kill and not do it the 2nd stock (we have F-throw CGs on the characters who we can kill anyway) and then have it for the 3rd stock. I don't think we should keep them alive, cuz they can do more damage before they die.

depends, how unstale does dthrow have to be? if you end with utilt > thunder, that's 2 slots on the 9 slot list

grab, fthrow, pummel, fthrow, pummel, fthrow, pummel > dthrow

that means dthrow would be at the 9th slot on the list which is pretty **** unstale.

If we do it like that we can get it on wolf every stock. Prime, test if we can do that as a CG or if it will have too much %

 

[J4pu]

afaik Utilt/smash > thunder is not a true combo, am i wrong?
also, if the Fthrow x3 w/ 3 pummels has too much dmg you could probably get off
grab > pummel, fthrow, pummel x2, fthrow, pummel x2 > dthrow against most people. (5 pummels ~ 1 fthrow right? if not take out pummels until you have the correct percent)
pika's pummel is pretty quick and not everybody can break out insanely fast

 

[Stealth Raptor]

it is unless they DI it very well. and they must DI it VERY well. which side you are on changes the DI pattern. it seems easy to DI but even the best DI'ers get caught up in it quite frequently.

 

[Ussi]

afaik Utilt/smash > thunder is not a true combo, am i wrong?

Its a true combo dependent on player DI and %. (more DI less chance of being a true combo)

if you momentum cancel, it is a true combo.

 

[KuroKitt10]

I feel sort of like a noob for asking this, but what exactly IS a buffered grab? I can't seem to find it explained anywhere >.<

Mew.

 

[KayLo!]

I feel sort of like a noob for asking this, but what exactly IS a buffered grab? I can't seem to find it explained anywhere >.<

Mew.

Buffering is inputting a move before the previous move is done so that move #2 will be performed the first available frame (including IASA frames).

It basically means that there's no human lag separating two moves, so you'll grab as fast as Pikachu possibly can. For dthrow, I think there's 10 or 11 frames or so for you to buffer the next grab.

 

[Ussi]

buffering is a system in brawl (dunno if it was in melee, but they made it obvious in brawl) that you input a command during the action of another command. When inputted within the appropriate frames, the command will execute at the first moment possible. (there are 10 frames to buffer in brawl)

 

[KayLo!]

A little too slow there, Ussi. <3

 

[Ussi]

Only by a few seconds. We posted at the same time.

 

[Zylar]

Actually....the best way to CG wolf is

F-throw x3 > Pummel x1 >D-throw x 14 + regrab = 115%

Depending on the amount of room you have left on the level you can switch it between this one and the one 2 posts above.

Okay great! But is it possible to throw the appropriate amount of pummels in between the D-Throws?

You guys think we should try to unstale dthrow instead of finishing off Falco/Fox/Wolf with a dthrow > usmash/tilt > thunder?

No, it is more worth it to get that kill and not do it the 2nd stock (we have F-throw CGs on the characters who we can kill anyway) and then have it for the 3rd stock. I don't think we should keep them alive, cuz they can do more damage before they die.

Well, if one is lucky enough to get the grab at the very beginning, I don't see why we can't refresh it. But, if in your haste to get a grab are hurt, but you manage to cg them anyway, then the bad (possible extra damage) outweighs the good (another possible cg next stock).

I never thought the day would come that people will john more about pikachu then mk.

Who? Omgsh, this has gotten way more hype than I thought. Still, I lol'd.
To me it seems that because people are less likely to john about MK, they're looking for someone else to john about. -.-

If we do it like that we can get it on wolf every stock. Prime, test if we can do that as a CG or if it will have too much %

I'm not sure how the Fox ppl will feel about someone having a worse time with pika's cgs then them. lol XD

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

You guys think we should try to unstale dthrow instead of finishing off Falco/Fox/Wolf with a dthrow > usmash/tilt > thunder?

No, it is more worth it to get that kill and not do it the 2nd stock (we have F-throw CGs on the characters who we can kill anyway) and then have it for the 3rd stock. I don't think we should keep them alive, cuz they can do more damage before they die.



If we do it like that we can get it on wolf every stock. Prime, test if we can do that as a CG or if it will have too much %

Thoughts.... QaC like mad all over and in place to refresh d-throw? What about ledge ledge-bank and u-air a lot.... I think there's so many options to refresh the d-throw no matter who the opponent is on any stock.

Any confirmation on walls affecting the chain-grab? What about the moving platform of smash-ville throwing towards the movement vs. away?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Thoughts.... QaC like mad all over and in place to refresh d-throw? What about ledge ledge-bank and u-air a lot.... I think there's so many options to refresh the d-throw no matter who the opponent is on any stock.

Any confirmation on walls affecting the chain-grab? What about the moving platform of smash-ville throwing towards the movement vs. away?

Just throwing out moves doesn't refresh things, you have to hit something with them. Popping the balloon on smashville, hitting the statue on castle siege, and hitting your opponent are the only ways. Randomly throwing out attacks do nothing. Otherwise, every time you knock your opponent away, you would hold A for like a second and be refreshed.

 

[J4pu]

I think he meant QAC through them so that you do the maximum of refresh : damage ratio since QAC barely does any damage (i think)

 

[Sei Shin Casios]

offensive qa is punished way to easy..
and for 9 hits, it still does about 15%+?!
i would try to get some jabs in, less dmg and easier to do. the problem: you are still dealing some dmg, so the cgs starting at 0% will no longer be possilbe.

something else: is it possible to f-throw chain mk at 0% with an dashattack-cancel to grab? read it somewhere and it would be very nice cause you could start the dthrow chain aftr the regrab at 10%.

 

[Ussi]

Since when did dash attack cancel into a grab?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

you always can? its the same as dac except you cancel with a grab. it does nothing for pika though. in fact its only useful for pivot grabs. either way pika cant regrab mk from it.

 

[Sei Shin Casios]

i meant DAC into grab (boostgrab, thx @ pikaguide xD)

Boost Grabbing -- Cancel your dash attack into a grab. For characters with dash attacks that increase their momentum, it can give a boost to their running grab. The easiest way to do this is to run, then press the c-stick down, then immediately afterwards press Z. You will get a slight boost in the distance and range of your dash grab, which is good against unsuspecting opponents.

*edit: okay, thx stealth!

 

[Stealth Raptor]

this has no effect on pika

 

[Sudai]

It's worked since melee. It still does in Brawl. You get a very slight boost to grab range for some characters depending on if they have a momentum boost at the beginning of their dash attack. Just dash attack and then press Z with the right timing.

Edit: I was way too slow.

 

[Ussi]

here I was thinking you landed the dash attack first straight into the grab.

 

[KayLo!]

i meant DAC into grab (boostgrab, thx @ pikaguide xD)


*edit: okay, thx stealth!

this has no effect on pika

Yeah, I mostly put it in the guide to lead up to pivot boost grabbing (which is useful), but I might take it out to avoid confusion. Pika's regular boost grab is pretty a**.

 

[J4pu]

offensive qa is punished way to easy..
and for 9 hits, it still does about 15%+?!
i would try to get some jabs in, less dmg and easier to do. the problem: you are still dealing some dmg, so the cgs starting at 0% will no longer be possilbe.

You can't just hold the Jab button though, it will count as one hit on the stale moves list (or at least so I would expect for Pika's super fast jab).

also, not starting at 0 is a good thing for some chars, you just gotta know the cap (which is weirdly arranged and yet to be fully discovered from my understanding) when you should stop doing damage and start the Dthrow CG.

 

[Sei Shin Casios]

Yeah, I mostly put it in the guide to lead up to pivot boost grabbing (which is useful), but I might take it out to avoid confusion. Pika's regular boost grab is pretty a**.

you dont have to, i just quoted it, cause i did not remember the right name for it.. (and i knew it was in the guide, which is awesome btw..)
i asked because read it somewhere and it would have been great
(you would not have depended on grabbing mk on 10-13%, you could have done a f-throw if you get him at 0-3%) **** grammar suxxx.. hope u are able to understand what i am trying to say

@J4pu: i am always pressing the jab one by one, cause of tripping your opponent. (even so i miss it most of the time xD) i dont think this matters, it should count as a normal hit. (but it would be an intressting thing to know for sure )

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You can hold A and it will refresh, just tested.