Fthrow/Dthrow Chaingrab Thread

[Spelt]

No wonder you said MK dittos were interesting -.-

jkjk

Well i did say MKs were boring alone.
but two together appeals to me strangely.

 

[Zajice]

no, but i hear it is quite entertaining. -stares at vase of flowers-



Do the pokemon actually have an advantage against each other?

Yes. It's in their board somewhere.

And I agree that MK dittos are as interesting as a vase of flowers.

 

[Zylar]

Really? So pika hurts squirtle more than ivy?

More or less back on topic:

We've got to show that we can win useing this before we go assuming pika is broken or something.

I mean this is a big deal and all, but I didn't expect this alone to make people think of using pika.

 

[Spelt]

Really? So pika hurts squirtle more than ivy?

More or less back on topic:

We've got to show that we can win useing this before we go assuming pika is broken or something.

I mean this is a big deal and all, but I didn't expect this alone to make people think of using pika.

So there just needs to be videos of people using it effectively? :/

 

[Zajice]

anyone who uses DDD/ICs will most likely start to 3rd Pikachu. He's probably 3rd best CGer now.

Pikachu is gonna be better than Dedede soon! Never ICs though. That can't be beat...

Well i did say MKs were boring alone.
but two together appeals to me strangely.

That's what she said.

I like whorenado spam fights.

Really? So pika hurts squirtle more than ivy?

No not really. At least I don't think that's how it is anyway...

 

[Ussi]

no, but i hear it is quite entertaining. -stares at vase of flowers-



Do the pokemon actually have an advantage against each other?

in brawl yes they do. Well only the PT pokemon. (Lucario does not suffer bonus fire knockback)

this is all just a bonus/penalty 10% in knockback.

Squirtle resists fire attacks, weak to grass. (unaffected by electric attacks)

Ivysaur is weak to fire attacks, resists water.

Charizard is weak to water attacks and drowns very very fast, and resists grass attacks.

this means ANY attack thats fire. Like Snake's C4, and lava in brinstar. (water is just squirtle and mario and grass is ivysaur only)

 

[Zylar]

So there just needs to be videos of people using it effectively? :/

Not quite. :/ Although I'd imagine that'd help.

The community, not one person in a vid, has to utilize this to its potential.
Many other things still influences matches, and pika can still lose with this cg.

What I'm saying is don't put your hopes up too high, even though this is a big deal.
This has only been recently discovered and sparringly executed (at least to my knowledge).
We have to see how it plays out.

Edit: Interesting Ussi. Yep PT dittos can be interesting. Although it sucks that pika doesn't have an advantage over squirtle and/or charizard.

 

[Zajice]

in brawl yes they do. Well only the PT pokemon. (Lucario does not suffer bonus fire knockback)

Squirtle resists fire attacks, weak to grass. (unaffected by electric attacks)

Ivysaur is weak to fire attacks, resists water.

Charizard is weak to water attacks and drowns very very fast, and resists grass attacks.

I knew this much to be true. I was pretty sure Pika didn't do anything, but wasn't to sure.

 

[Spelt]

in brawl yes they do. Well only the PT pokemon. (Lucario does not suffer bonus fire knockback)

this is all just a bonus/penalty 10% in knockback.

Squirtle resists fire attacks, weak to grass. (unaffected by electric attacks)

Ivysaur is weak to fire attacks, resists water.

Charizard is weak to water attacks and drowns very very fast, and resists grass attacks.

this means ANY attack thats fire. Like Snake's C4, and lava in brinstar. (water is just squirtle and mario and grass is ivysaur only)

I think charizard drowning fast is a bit unfair.
but i guess it'd be unrealistic if he didn't.

 

[gallax]

a lot of this seems situational too.

 

[Zajice]

I think charizard drowning fast is a bit unfair.
but i guess it'd be unrealistic if he didn't.

Brawl is realistic?

And if you take Ivysaur to Norfair with Snake, he's good as dead...

 

[Ussi]

Squirtle drowns...

 

[Sudai]

Before people start thinking this is "wtfomgbroken" you have to realize that people will be expecting the grabs at early %. There's specific % ranges where you have to start the CGs, so until you guys figure out ways to do this starting at later percents, it really won't be super useful. I have no doubt that eventually there will be ways to start this at later %s, but for the most part, jumping into some attacks to get above the % to start it isn't that unfeasible. I really do hope y'all find ways to do this at virtually every % though. I wanna see a "Pikachu Chain Grabbing Cookbook" chalked full of all kinds of information that Pika players will need to memorize to make this useful.

 

[Zylar]

Squirtle drowns...

I seriously lol whenever I see a squirle spiked into delfino's or pirate ship's water.

 

[Zajice]

Squirtle drowns...

I lol'd hard at that.

And on the Pikachu topic:
I was saying that although this is all extremely awesome, this stuff IS rather situational since they must be at the right percentage and you must have a certain amount of staleness on your throw. Yes this will most likely effect pika's game, but it's not gonna give him a huge advantage over other characters I don't think. Most matchups will likely stay pretty similar.

The only time this would work is at the beginning of a match and you get in a grab early or you just lost a life while they have low percent.

Edit:

Before people start thinking this is "wtfomgbroken" you have to realize that people will be expecting the grabs at early %. There's specific % ranges where you have to start the CGs, so until you guys figure out ways to do this starting at later percents, it really won't be super useful. I have no doubt that eventually there will be ways to start this at later %s, but for the most part, jumping into some attacks to get above the % to start it isn't that unfeasible. I really do hope y'all find ways to do this at virtually every % though. I wanna see a "Pikachu Chain Grabbing Cookbook" chalked full of all kinds of information that Pika players will need to memorize to make this useful.

^This.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

i dont think many of us think that this breaks pika. there are so many ways to be *****y and avoid grabs. it is still something to note if you get that grab in. just like any cg dont expect to get it every stock.

 

[Ussi]

well Sudai, many of these work like Falco's CG for starting %s (except much lower). I think anything below 30% is quite feasible for the CG. Falco also should be able to be utilt > grab due to his fall speed.

 

[Sei Shin Casios]

do not forget ff fair -> grab or d-tilt/jab trip -> grab. pika has some good options to get a grab and if your a bit lucky you will get it at the right % to pull of a chaingrab.

you will not be able to do it every stock, or even every match, but it is possible and not too hard.
i will just write a note and carry it around on tourneys, so i can look up the % to start the chaingrab xD
*hmm he cp this char.. lets have a look!*

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Snake cg starting from 10%
Fthrow > pummel > Dthrow x 10 + regrab - 90%

He can't footstool or nade this one?

New Snake cg!

Fthrow x 2 > pummel > Dthrow x 3 > pummel > Dthrow x 5 + regrab - 83%

Snake cannot nade or footstool out of this one.

HOLY ****ING **** **** THATS AMAZING!!!!!!!

I <3 you prime, best tester by a lot.

Before people start thinking this is "wtfomgbroken" you have to realize that people will be expecting the grabs at early %. There's specific % ranges where you have to start the CGs, so until you guys figure out ways to do this starting at later percents, it really won't be super useful. I have no doubt that eventually there will be ways to start this at later %s, but for the most part, jumping into some attacks to get above the % to start it isn't that unfeasible. I really do hope y'all find ways to do this at virtually every % though. I wanna see a "Pikachu Chain Grabbing Cookbook" chalked full of all kinds of information that Pika players will need to memorize to make this useful.

You forget, pikachu was good before this. We can camp until the characters approach, and if we can CG them, we can ff fair and grab them and start it. Then the argument comes around that they will purposely get hit by T-jolts. But then we can just play normally and do the CGs and playstyles we already know. We don't need to specifically focus on this, just use it when we can and the opportunity arises.

Edit:

K PRIME FOR GOD OF TESTING CGS!!!!

 

[Sei Shin Casios]

how do you test the cg's to be 100% sure they work?
im going home this weekend and i'd like to test some against my brother, but what can i do to be sure he did not just messed up the di on the important dtrow? or the doublejump buffering?

*edit: thx for testing! keep up the good work

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

He does it by using homebrew channel

 

[gallax]

not this homebrew channel sh*t again. just go with prime is awesome and you should be fine.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

But he is using homebrew...

 

[gallax]

you see this is why its so hard to believe people anymore. i asked everyone what that was, and no one gave me a serious answer in the chat when asked. so i just went on thinking it was something stupid.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

New video looks good. Glad to see this finally getting some attention. Thanks for reorganizing the Original Post, OP. Much more clearer and easy to understand.

As for me I'm fighting Pika with my Lucario/Kirby.

My poor poor 300lb bird what have you done to him

p.s. Dont get grabbed lol

 

[Sudai]

Galax, homebrew is a way to hack and modify games on the Wii. Brawl is the game getting the most done. What K Prime is using is specifically the Debug Hack. It enables you to make the game move frame by frame at your speed so you can have an input on every frame possible.

ESAM, I know Pika's already good and I guess my post was really preemptive in terms of what's being said here, but I had a good 15-20 (I'm the resident information spreader because I'm all over the forums. :x) people *****ing/bragging/noting at me about how Pika's gonna be Top tier and I was too lazy to explain it all to them so I just posted that here and linked them all to that post. XD

Besides, I'm about 80% confident that you guys will be able to use this at almopst any percent pre-[max for character minus 20% or so] percent once y'all figure out all the little quirks.

 

[The Truth!]

Yeah, I dont really like how some people started bragging and whatnot, I hope they dont get the wrong message about pika users. Most of us are nice.

tbh the thing I hope for most is that people might give pika a second look. I think he had the potential to move up the tier list before, only that hardly anyone ever bothered to use him.

 

[Ussi]

I suggest seeing if we can CG Snake at 45-50% cause Snakes will blow themselves up past the cap % (nade + nade + C4 = 43% damage in 4 seconds)

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

So...snakes are gonna intentionally put themselves in a bad position JUST to avoid a CG? Would they every stock? Doing that idt is really worth it because the snake will just be put at a disadvantage and you can camp them if you play smart

Edit: Bad grammar.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

they do that to falcos already. same with link. i agree with you in this case esam. a smart snake will make it a pain in the *** to grab them.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Stealth, idt it is that hard to grab a snake. I can at least grab 3 times per stock besides the CG. If it is at low %s i can CG them, and if they are at higher just get them off the level. It's snake remember?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

no it isnt hard at all to grab a snake. it is hard to grab a snake with an open field though. good timing and pivot grabs work at seperating him from the grenades. i generally get the cg all 3 stocks

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

About snake, can he get out if you f-throw him at 45-50% over ledge and resume d-throwing... (i need to test certain things).

@ k Prime: what homebrew debugging codes/steps do you use? Can you pm me or send me a link w/ a tutorial... I'll help cuz i got several power ranking mains in NC right next door to me. We'll test other chars.

@ testers (i don't know how many yet): Politely requesting tests for Z-samus, more diddy info, g&W, and marth.

*Things i want to test* Does d-throwing on higher ground or lower ground (slopes in YI) affect chaingrabs we have now? Even scarier, do they allow us to buffer-chaingrab some1 that wasn't previously possible?! O_O Do walls make any difference? Does their buffered second jump STILL register, but we grab them anyway (end with air grab release over stage without returning the opponents second jump?!)

I'll try to start testing these things i have been interested with b/c on my favorite neutral, YI (i must be a strange pikachu), i have been able to cg DDD and snake more (normally tho w/o focusing on buffering).

Sincerely,
Legendary PIkachu, LDPK, not not a fledgeling smashboards'er

 

[Zylar]

LP, I think slopes don't affect it, as long as the slope is a permanent fixture.
Meaning moving platforms can mess the cg up, just like regular cgs.

 

[gallax]

you see the thing with snake exploding himself to 43% is that its not necessary to do it at certain levels...like bf. after prime mentioned blowing myself up i tried it and it is effective if im on a level like smashville or FD. but when im on a lever like BF or lylat, i just stick to the platforms and when my percent gets high enough i then i can move off of them. basically i just plant a c4 below me whenever an opponent(falco mainly) comes underneath me and tried to utilt/usmash/uair me. this way is makes them scared to get under me due to the c4. and then from there the i just play plats. nades and c4 make attacking snake from below a scary thing. it isnt that hard to trick your opponent into a c4 in the face when on a plat. jump>c4>jump>detonate.

asically what im saying is that a smart snake will camp the plats as long as there are plats to camp on. grabbing a snake can be quite difficult. not everyone is as awesome as you(stealth and esam) and can grab no matter what without any problems and get a cg all 3 stocks 99% of the time.

also* a note for any snake players here just in case you didnt know...if you play falco on BF and oyu get cg wihle on a plat and the falco spikes you, snake will grab the ledge if you are not at a high percentage. so if playing a falco with snake, i would recommend BF as your stage. that or luigis mansion.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Well, it seems Pikachu can actually be a replacement for Snake. I was skeptical as who would I use, Pika or Snake. This may actually sway me, but I do not want to just move because of the CG's.
I am going to research Pika and his pontential, I won a few against some good players with him too.
Keep up the good work guys.

 

[Ussi]

From what i've tested Falco can be grabbed with a fresh dthrow at 45% however since i was using my foot to mash jump, i think someone needs to test jump + SDI into pikachu to see if Falco can escape at 45%

 

[gallax]

lol. i can just see you there smashing your foot against the controller. i think the dthrow should work on the lylats as long as the percents are not too great.

 

[Ussi]

Well, with my testing Snake footstools Pikachu at 45%+ but at 43% (what i got after 2 nades and a C4) you could do dthrow CG once or twice (my results kept varying) This is me testing by myself using one hand per controller. I had held left/right and mashed jump with Snake and pressed down and used the z-stick with Pikachu.

yea Snake isn't gonna get CG'd with fthrow at 43% but at the ledge it still works if you manage to CG to the ledge xD cause you still have to grab him with is hard to do without damaging him first.

EDIT: I tested Falco at 40% I could dthrow him to 80% from there. (Same method as above for testing)

2nd EDIT: I tested 30%, Falco footstool after the 2nd dthrow. :\

 

[gallax]

overall though if i see a snake do that for every stock of his, that a total of 120% of free damage. that is still awesome.