Fox top tier in other countries

[luke_atyeo]

North America may have the best Meta Knight and Snake, people like Mew2King and Ally. ADHD's Diddy Kong...

this is what I'm talking about, yes all and m2k and adhd are the best players of their respective characters, IN AMERICA, but you cant claim they are the best in the world, because for all you know there are some people in japan better then them.

simple analogy for you, the original inhabitants of Australian were just chillin one day with their spears when europe came in with guns and pwned them, see where I'm getting with this? lack of knowledge of the outside world doesnt make you the best.

If Japan thinks fox is top tier or high tier, they are obviously on a lower skill level or have a "worse" play style than America.

this too, you cant make that claim just because of that, imo if they have players who can beat people with fox they're probably better then you.

I would be REALLY REALLY surprised if there is people on the same level as Ally with snake in other countries.

I would also be very surprised if there is a fox who can beat M2k in other countries lol xD

so would I, but it could happen. and yeah, I'm sure there are people with the same snake level as ally around the world. thats like saying I'd be suprised if anyone but America got a gold medal at the olympics.

 

[Kuraudo]

@ Luke

Sorry, wasn't clear enough, I guess. I'm not blindly proclaiming Mew2King and Ally as the best. If anything, it's an example. And I guess I could emphasize "MAY" be the best. We don't know until we clash, right?

 

[Conviction]

I WISH I HAD THE MONEY! lol welll hopefullly the international turn-out at pound 4 will be good.

 

[C.R.Z]

I WISH I HAD THE MONEY! lol welll hopefullly the international turn-out at pound 4 will be good.

it won't as far as i know no europeans are going(or the majority isnt going)

 

[Palpi]

Fox has been analyzed to have flaws in his game making his current spot on the american tier list deserving, thinking he is that good (top tier) is just wrong imo

thus it must be the players playstyle or lack of experience creating this false placement on their tier list.

 

[Dre89]

It's also possible that the Japanese have developed strats or ATs for Fox that others aren't aware of.

Seriously how can you guys claim to better than the Japanese if you don't know anything about them?

Claiming that you guys have contributed to the metagame the most is a dangerous claim, considering the people who said that don't even properly know the Japanese metagame.

Seriosuly Luke Atyeo is right though, around the world Americans are depcited negatively. I was always sceptical of the way you guys were portrayed, thinking it was too harsh and exaggerated, but no offence the way you guys have acted in this thread more just confirms those negative portrayals to be honest.

 

[luke_atyeo]

We don't know until we clash, right?

exactly, thats one of the points I was trying to make


as for old little fox, I cant really think of an example right now, but would character X be as good or as high if player Y hadnt discovered certain things or devolped his metagame or what not.

if you think about it, fox at a really high level with heaps of tech skill could just dance around an opponent hitting them with the odd laser while never getting hit himself, maybe they are really good at that?

imo fox is an under-rated character, top tier? who knows, alot of other characters are high because some amazing player got really good with them and showed everyone how its done, that hasnt really happened in the western world, but maybe it happend in japan?

and lets be fair dre, they havnt ALL acted like that, its just a shame that the first ones to open their mouths (or in this case type in a thread) are always the dumb ones, and the smart people get drowned out.

 

[Conviction]

Point taken luke....now Maybe if we got some one like Azen to pick up fox or something...(remember his fox match vs. M2K) well I remember A lot of good Fox players in Japan, because we thought he still be good like in melee. We foused more on spacing our attacks then camping a lot but idk things maybe I have changed idk how figure out if they did.

 

[C.R.Z]

no worries! ill show everyone that fox is top tier myself ^_^

 

[Palpi]

I was once unintelligent about this topic. "If 1 person can do it, then that is how good he is" I foolishly thought that for a while.

Because Reflex does so well with PT, doesn't mean he himself should have a lot of influence of its tier placement. He is an amazing player who plays a bad character and players who are of lesser skill level than him and wins. That same thing may be happening in other countries, i don't know.

 

[Dre89]

No he should, because he represents the current potential of PT. I'm not saying PT should be S tier if he Reflex can beat top-level MKs etc., but he is important because he shows what PT is capable of.

 

[Palpi]

It is the player that is beating them, not the character. He is better than a large majority of his opponents thus making match ups less important, don't make me get adumbrodeus in here. You will lose the argument, just as I did a few months ago.

It isn't the characters true potential, it is Reflex's amazing reading abilities and intelligence as a player.

 

[.AC.]

If Japan thinks fox is top tier or high tier, they are obviously on a lower skill level or have a "worse" play style than America.

Didn't Sk92 beat 7 people in the WC vs Euro crews at genesis?

wow they are worse at the game because they think different? you are hella dumb.

 

[-Ran]

The popular characters in a region directly effect tier placement since it influences tournament results. Think for a second, as a Snake main my main threats in terms of uneven match ups are D3 and Olimar. Both of these characters have poor match ups against Meta Knight, and so the likelihood of a Snake playing a D3/Olimar main in a final is that much lower due to not only the popularity of MK, but the match ups.

On that note, who does Fox typically play in a tournament setting?
MK: 60:40
Snake: 55:45
Wario: 60:40
Falco: 55:45
Diddy: 60:40
Marth: 60:40
King Dedede: 50:50
Game and Watch: 65:35
Ice Climbers: 75:25
Olimar: 60:40
Kirby: 65:35

Most of the matches that you're going to have in a tournament match are going to not be in your advantage. Now, the good news is that your GW match up is less likely due to Marth and Snake being popular characters. Even MK has a nice edge on GW, and as a whole GW has slipped drastically in terms of being used in singles. When it comes to Ice Climbers, you're not going to find many of them at tournaments, and Kirby competes fairly well within the opponents you'd see at a tournament.

So what does this all mean? Even if you count on the removal of your worst match ups due to them meeting their worst matches up prior to facing you, Fox is going to be at a general disadvantage throughout a tournament. Thus when it comes time to make a tier list, people view Fox as a C tier character.

On that note, I'm glad that MK is a popular character; it makes being a Snake main so much easier. ^_~;

 

[-Mars-]

It's also possible that the Japanese have developed strats or ATs for Fox that others aren't aware of.

Seriously how can you guys claim to better than the Japanese if you don't know anything about them?

Claiming that you guys have contributed to the metagame the most is a dangerous claim, considering the people who said that don't even properly know the Japanese metagame.

Seriosuly Luke Atyeo is right though, around the world Americans are depcited negatively. I was always sceptical of the way you guys were portrayed, thinking it was too harsh and exaggerated, but no offence the way you guys have acted in this thread more just confirms those negative portrayals to be honest.

All the morons in this thread talking about how good Japan is are just stupid. There's hundreds of vids of top level Japanese players floating all over the internet so it isn't like we have no clue how they play over there like it's some big mystery or something and they have all these advanced techniques that are insane and we've never seen. Get the **** outta here lmao.

I've seen vids of Yui (think that's his name), he looks like one of the top Foxes over there and trust me when I say there are no secret Fox techniques that he uses.

For your last comment us Americans don't really give a **** how were depicted around the world to be honest with you. If you guys are on our level in Smash then come over here and win a national. If your better than us then so be it.......but from the vids we have seen of other countries they are not above our level of play so there is absolutely NO reason for us to think they are above us.

The only thing the Japanese do better than us is they have precise & clean execution......that's it. They put more stress on perfecting character technique but they in no way have anything special that really sets them apart from our players.

 

[-Ran]

There was a thread awhile ago of a decent MK player that went to Japan for the summer. He gave a ton of insight such as they don't even really have a community board, but use a Japan 'Facebook' style site to meet up. If I recall, the decent MK player beat almost everyone he had the chance to play.

 

[-Mars-]

Kel I think it was.

 

[Dre89]

Mars calm down I never said we were you're level in Smash, plus how Aussies comapre to the US is irrelevant to the Japan issue lol.

I was just going off the fact that from the previous posts it seemed as if you guys didn't have a complete understanding of the Japanese metagame. yet were making claims that would require that complete understanding to be valid.

Also, it still stands that you shoould probably wait until you verse the Japanese before you determine who is better.

 

[FunkMaster]

fox is top tier in other places because Brawl in those places is not as developed as in the U.S. Christ. Fox

isn't that awesome. Like Mid Tier material or something.

I'm not being a patriotic fool. I go with what is likely. Japan is better at Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, and probably

all sorts of other games then the U.S is.

But the U.S has been better at smash. Melee and Brawl. Dunno about 64.

@Mars

YES. Kinda silly how some might see Japan as some sort of mystery that nobody but the Japanese players

themselves know about. And I'm pretty sure the U.S is the most active in Brawl and Melee. Always was.

Hopefully at the next big tournament some kind of crew battle is arranged between the best players of

the U.S and Japan. Would be fun to see. Or funny to see?


and odd how people are taking stuff personally. yes, you may be from whatever place you are from, but

that's not all you are. if you want to identify yourself primarily through a place, then whatever. I doubt

many of the people here are the actual best in their respective regions or whatever. do you own your

region's top players or something?

well whatever. later bros.

 

[C.R.Z]

it is a possibility that the US is better than japan but it is NOT written in stone.there are a lot of factors which may have not been taken into account.if you cant see that then your just being closed minded.yes you can have your opinion but your opinion is not fact so dont try and correct what isnt your view.

@Mars: dont give that **** an bull **** about ' If you guys are on our level in Smash then come over here and win a national' NO why should they have to prove themselvs to you? what is the chance that a few people from country X comes and wins a huge tournament from country Y?hardly any, dont use that speach in a discussion , its just not valid.

Every country has its own meta game, it is very unlikly that one is 100% better than another, yes it can be an opinion, no it cant be counted as fact esspecially in an indepth game like this.america is probly the biggest brawl/melee comunity in the world, doesnt give them the right to make up facts.

 

[DaomarIsBear]

But the U.S has been better at smash. Melee and Brawl. Dunno about 64.

We have (or had) Isai. That alone makes us the best at 64. He's ridiculous at that game.

 

[.AC.]

We have (or had) Isai. That alone makes us the best at 64. He's ridiculous at that game.

so if isai was the only one who played 64 in the US (theoretically), would the US still be better than a top player filled japan? having the best player/players doesn't automatically make a country "better" than another.

 

[Melomaniacal]

so if isai was the only one who played 64 in the US (theoretically), would the US still be better than a top player filled japan? having the best player/players doesn't automatically make a country "better" than another.

I don't know... he's 5 stocked Japan pros.

 

[Palpi]

I will take my life if japan can beat america in a 10 man crew.

CONFIDENCE!!!!!

 

[-Mars-]

it is a possibility that the US is better than japan but it is NOT written in stone.there are a lot of factors which may have not been taken into account.if you cant see that then your just being closed minded.yes you can have your opinion but your opinion is not fact so dont try and correct what isnt your view.

@Mars: dont give that **** an bull **** about ' If you guys are on our level in Smash then come over here and win a national' NO why should they have to prove themselvs to you? what is the chance that a few people from country X comes and wins a huge tournament from country Y?hardly any, dont use that speach in a discussion , its just not valid.

Every country has its own meta game, it is very unlikly that one is 100% better than another, yes it can be an opinion, no it cant be counted as fact esspecially in an indepth game like this.america is probly the biggest brawl/melee comunity in the world, doesnt give them the right to make up facts.

If they don't want to come over here and prove it then we will continue to call ourselves the best in the world.....you don't like it then stop posting about it on AMERICAN forums.

 

[.AC.]

If they don't want to come over here and prove it then we will continue to call ourselves the best in the world.....you don't like it then stop posting about it on AMERICAN forums.

you are dumb, Mexicans are the best in the world, if you don't like it, come to Mexico and prove it.

 

[Palpi]

mars is ****.

ac just ***** aswell, though isn't tkd the best mk in mexico?

 

[.AC.]

i dont know who is better between me and him, he beat tyrant and havok with fox, i have also beaten good players (dao,mikehaze,dsf,bardull) and im ranked in socal(lol).itkd is better because he is older. =P

ps: mars you suck at whatever you are trying to accomplish by saying such things.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Was this topic moved from somewhere or have I been slacking on checking the main page for the Fox boards.

 

[-Mars-]

you are dumb, Mexicans are the best in the world, if you don't like it, come to Mexico and prove it.

If I thought your statement had any validity I might actually bother to post on your forums.

*waves at NKB*

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

If I thought your statement had any validity I might actually bother to post on your forums.

*waves at NKB*

OMFG!!!!! MARSULAS!?!?!?!?!?

I didn't recognize the name!

<3 Mars! Mars too goodz!

 

[DaomarIsBear]

so if isai was the only one who played 64 in the US (theoretically), would the US still be better than a top player filled japan? having the best player/players doesn't automatically make a country "better" than another.

Well, if you look at a country of having a skill to player ratio, and the US(theoretically) had one player, and he was the best in the world, yes I'd say America is the top country in that game.

 

[.AC.]

If I thought your statement had any validity I might actually bother to post on your forums.

*waves at NKB*

we dont even have forums, but we still are the best until you guys prove us wrong. get at us.

Well, if you look at a country of having a skill to player ratio, and the US(theoretically) had one player, and he was the best in the world, yes I'd say America is the top country in that game.

nobody said anything about skill to player ratio. now if you think bout overall skill...

 

[DaomarIsBear]

we dont even have forums, but we still are the best until you guys prove us wrong. get at us.



nobody said anything about skill to player ratio. now if you think bout overall skill...

...then the over all skill of our player(s) is higher then the over all skill of their player(s).

 

[Commander_Beef]

I honestly think that the United States has a better sense of the development of it's metagame. We have more studies and more intelligent people to analyze everything about every character, and I think that our tier list is almost near complete/accurate because I agree with most of it. We just seem to have more true facts about the metagame than other countries such as those.

 

[Attila_]

Ally is often refered to as the best snake in the world, now he's the best in America sure, and he'd **** any snake (or player) in Aus, no idea about Europe but I daresay there'd be at least 1 snake in japan that would beat him or at least go even with him.

just because you guys havnt heard about their scene doesnt make you the best, and comments said about America's doing all the contributing to the metagame is ****, people like EA (IC's player) and shaya (marth) have done their fair share from over here in aus, and there are some crazy japanese AT's I've ran across that most Americans havnt even heard of.

fox top tier? dont judge or talk **** till you know what your talking about.

sorry if anyone finds that abit harsh or offensive, but alot of you probably needed to hear that, and its not as harsh as ruling out a scene's viability just because they are not America, or because they have fox as top tier.

sorry i just need to repeat this like five times. have any of you visited japan? are any of you members of the japanese smashboards? have any of you even once played someone of respectable rank in japan? no? then sit the **** down.

 

[C.R.Z]

I honestly think that the United States has a better sense of the development of it's metagame. We have more studies and more intelligent people to analyze everything about every character, and I think that our tier list is almost near complete/accurate because I agree with most of it. We just seem to have more true facts about the metagame than other countries such as those.

looooool plz! dont say things like this you will just start arguments.


NKB this has been here for a while, hasnt been moved, you just never noticed

 

[smashkng]

I honestly think that the United States has a better sense of the development of it's metagame. We have more studies and more intelligent people to analyze everything about every character, and I think that our tier list is almost near complete/accurate because I agree with most of it. We just seem to have more true facts about the metagame than other countries such as those.

^Discrimination. Europeans, Australians, Canadians, Mexicans... they are not less intelligent than Americans. That's not the thing. USA just has more people who want to play Brawl and join this community. Europe needs more offline tournaments and people in this website who want to play compitively.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

NKB this has been here for a while, hasnt been moved, you just never noticed

Lol I effing fail!

I thought it was moved from somewhere because I saw so many none Fox players posting.

I need to visit the main page more often instead of going start to the general discussion =D

 

[C.R.Z]

Lol I effing fail!

I thought it was moved from somewhere because I saw so many none Fox players posting.

I need to visit the main page more often instead of going start to the general discussion =D

yeah but genral discussion pwns :3

and i dont think alot of fox players are posting because its going off topic and what needs to be said has been said.

im just here trying to keep the peace :D