Fox Match-Up General Discussion

[SCOTU]

as in smash lab leader (along w/ ankoku and samuraipanda)

Too bad teal clashes atrociously with my old "Bloodshine" avatar. I'll have to fix that or something...

 

[Galanoth7395]

So what do you think on the matchup, Pgh?

3...

 

[A6M Zero]

sigh...okay.

I'll humble myself by posting this video. These are taken from the grand finals of the SFU bi-weeklies. I had NEVER played a competent IC's player before.

I present to you...


How NOT to EVER play against IC's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQhaTRejIAk&feature=related



....*cries*

 

[§witch]

Lol, at your 03710139372928208202 usmashes.

Yeah, the match-up is borderline unplayable.

EDIT: Why on god's green earth would you pick SV as your CP?

 

[Shintarru]

lol you did do a lot of upsmashes

 

[A6M Zero]

Yes, I know.

That is the worst you can possibly play against Ice Climbers. I did this for you, you guys.

 

[Shintarru]

Yes I know thanks =)


I noticed that gimping the ice climbers is easy when you get them off the stage. So I would say find some way to get them off the stage then gimp with a bair or shine. You also showed that the u-tilt seperates the ice climbers in round 2. Thanks for posting the vid=)

 

[Zhamy]

Watching those matches just emphasize how stupid their aerial priority is.

The more I play this matchup, the less and less I like it.

 

[chaindude]

*laughs at A6M's attempt to fight IC*

*ahem* anyways i agree this match up is retarted it's like fighting MK with C falcon

about IC's recovery is that for some reason nana seems to *teleport* to popo to do his ^B at time trust me most anoying thing in this match up next to the grabs

and uhhh Rainbow cruise is to good and....well if they ban that players prefernce from there i try pokemon stadium 2 most of the changes work for me. im gunna say 75:25 IC favour

 

[Shintarru]

about IC's recovery is that for some reason nana seems to *teleport* to popo to do his ^B at time trust me most anoying thing in this match up next to the grabs

Point taken

 

[M@v]

yyyyeeeahhhh this sounds pretty ugly for everyone involved besides the ICs.....does a final ratio of 75:25 or 70:30 sound good?

 

[Lightning93]

Yes that does sound good, but I blame Iblis for bringing up MK and making me do huge post on him.

 

[M@v]

Summary: 25:75

ICs are brutal. They can CG you all over the place. They can CG to spike you. Their CG abilites are mind-boggling. It is ESSENTIAL to separate them and keep them separated if you want to win. Fighting popo one-on-one is a very manageable fight. Shine works well for getting them apart.
As simple and basic as this sounds, Dont get grabbed. Its. That. Simple. You get grabbed, you will get arguably the worst beating you can receive in this game. Ban FD against these guys FOR SURE. The ICs aerial priority is sickening as well. If you cant get them separated, your going to lose, unless the IC player is terrible. This matchup is as simple as that.


Ok, im hoping to hit the next couple rapid fire and get by them quick, you'll see why.

Next: Ganondorf

Yeah, hes a pimp, but fox destroys him.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

simple, edgeguard and get ganoncide'd(if hes a stock ahead or equal he'll do it)
drill->u-tilt ***** hard, abuse it as much as you need(just dont get predictible)
u-smash kills at about 115% on a good stage,so go somewhere with a low ceiling.
um...anything else?

edit: edgeguarding him is easy just b-air or shine and its over for him
edit 2:dont pick norfair.ever.

 

[Conviction]

Yes that does sound good, but I blame Iblis for bringing up MK and making me do huge post on him.

Shut up I thought was important to revist it him but we can do that later.

Summary: 25:75

ICs are brutal. They can CG you all over the place. They can CG to spike you. Their CG abilites are mind-boggling. It is ESSENTIAL to separate them and keep them separated if you want to win. Fighting popo one-on-one is a very manageable fight. Shine works well for getting them apart.
As simple and basic as this sounds, Dont get grabbed. Its. That. Simple. You get grabbed, you will get arguably the worst beating you can receive in this game. Ban FD against these guys FOR SURE. The ICs aerial priority is sickening as well. If you cant get them separated, your going to lose, unless the IC player is terrible. This matchup is as simple as that.


Ok, im hoping to hit the next couple rapid fire and get by them quick, you'll see why.

Next: Ganondorf

Yeah, hes a pimp, but fox destroys him.

I don't explain this but its 80:20 or 70:30+ just check the Ganon boards. But they just won't get it through thier head that ganon can't handle Fox.

 

[Toronto Joe]

i wouldnt go as far as 70-30......a good Ganon is not going to be that easy, utilt does allow for a distinct early lead but Ganons power and Foxes weight make killing fox just as easy....dsmash is good vs Ganon at high percents because the horizontal knockback of it usually makes it impossible for him to recover, drill shines work nicely, hell even shine spikes can do the job, basically almost all of Foxes tactics can be pulled off in this matchup......just play smart and you should win, be cautious when your approaching since he is so strong......Ganon has some mindgames so make sure you know whats coming before you get rocked(looks at the time when a Ganon did an auto cancelled dair into an fsmash and caught me off guard, not to mention KO'd me)

ps: does Ganon have any reliable moves out of his side b vs Fox? i dont remember and this would be good to know

65/35 or 60/40

 

[Galanoth7395]

Well I see we finally got IC over with...

Anyways, on Ganon: no reflector, no oil bucket, no PSI Magnet, so blaster spam away. If he gets close, watch out. He's powerful, but he's slow. You're fast. If you can outwit him in this match-up, hes a piece of cake.

I'll go to Brawl right now to try it.

P.S. Can we plz do Lucas next???????????????

2...

EDIT: Can't find it...

EDIT 2: Found it... right against the wall obscured by tons of... Stuff!

 

[Shintarru]

70-30 Fox

A good ganon that knows what he is doing will try and predict your style and punish. Ganon only scare moves are his side b, his dair autocanceled and ganoncide if your not careful. Just avoid those cause they are his main combo/string starter. U-tilt>dair>U-tilt ***** ganon too hard. But always mix it up. Use your speed to dodge and mindgame him. Blaster spam instead of approaching.

 

[Galanoth7395]

I discovered, if he gets you with his Up+B, press A EXACTLY after the attack to Nair him back! This doesn't work at lower percentages, though. But still, it's something. I figure a Ganon player won't know this, so take advantage of their surprise and dash attack > u-smash. Sometimes, Ganon will even go behind you, so that opens up plenty of possibilities.

70:30 sounds about right for this match-up.

Btw, Merry Christmas Eve!!

 

[JigglyZelda003]

so where should we take ol Ganny to fight, any places we want to avoid, also does Ganon have any kind of lock or chain against Fox? im willing to go w/ 70:30 but i still haven't fought many Ganons.

 

[Galanoth7395]

On the stage, I dunno. If if has drop-through platforms, then I'd say Ganon has the advantage (u-smash -.-). And no, slow ol' Ganon doesn't' have any chain on Fox that I know of. But, like I said in my last post, Fox does have a counter

Ugh, this thread is dying.

And yes, I finally got Santa hatted. Mind the bar at the bottom.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

its not dying lol. its christmas eve and everyones running around like chickens with their heads cut off. im gonna go invite the ganons over. i asked about some chain since it seems most of the cast has some lock of sorts on Fox anyway, even pit.

 

[Shintarru]

Lol I expected this thread wont be as active cause its christmas eve.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

yeah, almost the entirety of SWF is slow today

 

[chaindude]

ps: does Ganon have any reliable moves out of his side b vs Fox? i dont remember and this would be good to know
65/35 or 60/40[/QUOTE]


from what i know gannon can do one of three things he can use his side B and predict what you going to do he can use a d tilt or once again guess with his Dair which does a nasty 20%+

 

[Shintarru]

yeah it comes down to mingames if he lands a side b on fox.

So 70-30?

 

[Chileno4Live]

I think 65-53 is the best match up. Ganondorf can mindgame Fox, though it won't do godly. I am questioning myself this for a long time, but why doesn't my signature show up >.<

 

[-Mars-]

If Ganon lands a dair at 0%, he can usmash or dair you again and then sets up for any aerial. This is escapable but it's very hard to escape. Takes out half of your stock almost immediately, so definitely avoid any early percentage thunderstomps.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Yes, we have a sideB follow up. Two, in fact. DTilt and FTilt, DTilt after gerudo is more then enough to bring this matchup to 65:35, your fall speed allows us to connect another DTilt easily. At early percentages, if a Ganon gerudos you be prepared to suffer massive damage and mindgames.

We're also discussing you guys in our matchup thread right now.

 

[M@v]

We're also discussing you guys in our matchup thread right now.

The reason why I did ganon next =P

 

[Conviction]

The reason why I did ganon next =P

Lol Clever.

 

[A6M Zero]

Discussing this matchup is a ****ing joke.


Fox ***** Ganon. Ganon mains (rofl) should suck it up and go focus on a matchup they can actually win, like Game and Watch.

 

[Conviction]

Discussing this matchup is a ****ing joke.


Fox ***** Ganon. Ganon mains (rofl) should suck it up and go focus on a matchup they can actually win, like Game and Watch.

Yea really, I'm getting tired of this match-up they need to give it up, its becoming a drag posting there to just to repeat myself....

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

I don't mean to be picky but why is the Link match-up there with no Link discussion?

 

[§witch]

I think 65-53 is the best match up. Ganondorf can mindgame Fox, though it won't do godly. I am questioning myself this for a long time, but why doesn't my signature show up >.<

You can't say ganon can mindgame fox; fox can mindgame ganon too.

 

[Zhamy]

Discussing this matchup is a ****ing joke.

Nah, the discussion is still important for developing strategies and counter strategies.

 

[SCOTU]

fox > Ganon 70:30
dair and stuff
nair edgeguard and stuff
waveshine>nair>usmash and stuff.
Don't get hit by the utilt and stuff.

 

[-Mars-]

I say we just put it at 70:30, I think we've already said enough in the other thread and they're just going to put whatever they feel like.

Edit: We have a 60-40 advantage on Toon Link, there is no way in hell that Ganon is in the same league as all of the Ganon mains are claiming.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I wonder how many skillful Ganons you guys played. This matchups a lot like G&W, a skillful Ganon would be avoiding your attack to the point where he could punish, and he punishes pretty well. Then, a skillful Ganon would just repeat this to the point where he could KO Fox (4-5 Hits IMO).

 

[M@v]

1st off, MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!

I don't mean to be picky but why is the Link match-up there with no Link discussion?

Me and a couple others discussed it in the link boards when they covered fox.. Lucario is 4:6 also and there is no description, for the same reasons.

Ok Lol, Ganon is done, 70-30 it is.

Next, the manliest person in the game, Captain Falcon!

I propose the same numbers?